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The Big and Dandy Ketamine Thread (Archived start - 11-20-07)

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e1evene1even said:
The Ketamine Konundrum
by James Kent
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In all honesty, I hate that article. It reeks of amaturish holier-than-thou-ness.

Willow and F&B - I got a kind of hyperexcitability/anxiety (certainly not paranoia) during the "comedown" from my first few Ketamine experiences. It was completely curable with a bit of benzos, however.

BUT - when I go on my daily low-dose regimens, I quickly loose that "rebound" phase, even if I take the occasional recreational dose.

However, I can see how some people may interpret Ketamine's tendecy to induce synchronicity (even Jansen talks about this) as paranoia.
 
lord lets hope :\

regardless I've decided to quit doing ketamine for awhile, besides a 30 or so mg dose before tripping sometimes (this is where I think it will be most effective for me)-

ketamine has a lot of baggage attached to it, too much for my liking
 
*Shrug*... I keep suggesting that people with Ketamine "problems" try taking 10-20mg doses steadily for a while. It might take a couple of days, but then it seems to reduce its own cravings (for a recreational dose, that is).

It is definitely the first drug I know of that has the ability to cure the very problems it might possibly start.
 
Regarding synchronicity, every single time I've done ketamine, it's like I can feel when a movement is about to be made, either my my fiance sleeping next to me or my cats. It's the weirdest thing and hard to explain, but it's like I start to rapidly recede from the tunnels and the world rightens itself up and then she rolls over, or a cat runs into the room (always with alarm on his or her face). And it always happens, every time. I have often found myself able to predict what's about to happen in that way while deeply under the effects. Either that, or it's some serious event sequence restructuring in my brain.
 
samadhi_smiles said:
lord lets hope :\

regardless I've decided to quit doing ketamine for awhile, besides a 30 or so mg dose before tripping sometimes (this is where I think it will be most effective for me)-

ketamine has a lot of baggage attached to it, too much for my liking
Click to expand...

I'd like to know more. After reading about its NMDA and glutamate effects I got the impression it could be a good way to ease into a trip and reduce come-up stress, do you find this the case?


Even though ketamine is not a traditional drug, if using it for spiriitual development, maybe a traditional framework could still be applicable? Give something that induces NDE's and increases synchronicities to a yogi and he would likely call those effects "siddhis". Similarly, they may be explored but not focussed on as they can pull one off the path. "Seeking siddhi powers is often discouraged and considered to be an impediment to spiritual advancement. J Krishnamurti warned about siddhis in the context of meditation, comparing them to candles in the sun."

Another thing I find is that I start relating everything I see to ketamine experiences
Click to expand...
Primary Siddhis
* Aṇimā: reducing one's body even to the size of an atom

* Mahimā: expanding one's body to an infinitely large size

* Garima: becoming infinitely heavy

* Laghimā: becoming almost weightless

* Prāpti: having unrestricted access to all places

* Prākāmya: realizing whatever one desires

Secondary Siddhis

* dūra-śravaṇa: Hearing things far away

* dūra-darśanam: Seeing things far away

* manaḥ-javah: Moving the body wherever thought goes (teleportation)

* kāma-rūpam: Assuming any form desired

* sva-chanda mṛtyuh: Dying when one desires
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;)

Taking the concept of "siddhis" at face value for the moment, I could really see the possibility of some of these effects being mediated by some endogenous ketamine-type material, like the one theorized by Jansen. Being able to sit in meditation for long periods, in a state of detachment etc. could be aided in an increase in these compounds. The body's own anesthetic.
 
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Xorkoth said:
I have often found myself able to predict what's about to happen
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During my first K experiment I projected (actually I made it "slip" through a hole between events) my consciousness into the near future, picked a common unimportant event and held onto that while it went in the direction of the "now", ultimately actually happening.
Dunno wtf that was about and the whole thing was so strange that I don't know if it was "real" either.
 
Xorkoth said:
Regarding synchronicity, every single time I've done ketamine, it's like I can feel when a movement is about to be made, either my my fiance sleeping next to me or my cats. It's the weirdest thing and hard to explain, but it's like I start to rapidly recede from the tunnels and the world rightens itself up and then she rolls over, or a cat runs into the room (always with alarm on his or her face). And it always happens, every time. I have often found myself able to predict what's about to happen in that way while deeply under the effects. Either that, or it's some serious event sequence restructuring in my brain.
Click to expand...
I think you're right about the restructuring of sequence. Ketamine seriously slows sensory processing, which is part of why audio tends to have that flanging effect. I imagine complex unified experiences such as perceiving and understanding that a cat just entered the room are even more subject to slowing. The "predictions" can be explained by one part of your brain "understanding" what's happening before the part that actually perceives the event and makes the judgment, "a cat just ran into the room". For example, professional tennis players must rely on intuition to return a serve because it's impossible to analyze the trajectory of the ball and adjust body movements accordingly via reflective processes (they require to much processing power and take too long). That intuitive part of your brain, which is designed to work much faster than the analytical, reflective part, reacts to the cat entering the room before you fully perceive that event. I imagine ketamine greatly amplifies the difference in timing between these two dissociated systems, which we normally experience as being in sync.

There's some very fascinating experiments with people who are "blind", in that they don't perceive anything (or very little) due to neurological damage, yet are able to, for instance, pick up an envelope and post it through a mail slot. This is because the "how" path, the one responsible for guiding the envelope through the mail slot is not damaged, but the "what" path, the one that says "I'm looking at an envelope and a mail slot," is damaged. Many of the things we deem conscious experience necessary for are in fact run by non-conscious processes. Look for Milner and Goodale's work on visual agnosia for more.

Regarding more elaborate synchronicities: It seems to me that once someone has wholly entered the world inside their head, where every event really is connected and really does have personal significance, they might unwittingly learn to reach the same conclusions in physical reality. Couple that with the egocentric rationalizations we all use to make our selves feel important, and it's not surprising chronic ketamine users claim to experience syncronicities more than average.
 
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psood0nym,

I've found it works well with 4-HO-DMT, 2CT7, DMT, and this weekend I am going to try it with 5-MeO-DMT-

I have a healthy amount of fear for 5-meo-dmt, it hits me REALLY hard - like complete ego loss hard (like it does for most people I guess!)-

So, I am going to smoke a low dose of DMT, bump a 30mg line of K, and when I'm ready take a 14mg dose of 5-MeO-DMT -

woo, I haven't been this scared of doing a psychedelic for a long time - my fingers just started trembling right now typing this out actually!
 
I think you're right about the restructuring of sequence. Ketamine seriously slows sensory processing, which is part of why audio tends to have that flanging effect. I imagine complex unified experiences such as perceiving and understanding that a cat just entered the room are even more subject to slowing. The "predictions" can be explained by one part of your brain "understanding" what's happening before the part that actually perceives the event and makes the judgment, "a cat just ran into the room". For example, professional tennis players must rely on intuition to return a serve because it's impossible to analyze the trajectory of the ball and adjust body movements accordingly via reflective processes (they require to much processing power and take too long). That intuitive part of your brain, which is designed to work much faster than the analytical, reflective part, reacts to the cat entering the room before you fully perceive that event. I imagine ketamine greatly amplifies the difference in timing between these two dissociated systems, which we normally experience as being in sync.
Click to expand...

That's a variant of what happens during an episode of deja vu, in that the perceived even is directed into the short term memory before it's conciously perceived, resulting in the feeling of having seen it before (which is also common on ketamine)
 
samadhi_smiles said:
psood0nym,

I've found it works well with 4-HO-DMT, 2CT7, DMT, and this weekend I am going to try it with 5-MeO-DMT-

I have a healthy amount of fear for 5-meo-dmt, it hits me REALLY hard - like complete ego loss hard (like it does for most people I guess!)-

So, I am going to smoke a low dose of DMT, bump a 30mg line of K, and when I'm ready take a 14mg dose of 5-MeO-DMT -

woo, I haven't been this scared of doing a psychedelic for a long time - my fingers just started trembling right now typing this out actually!
Click to expand...
I understand your apprehension. I used 5-meo-DMT in conjunction with DXM in the past--some idea about compounding dissociation--and it was one of the most difficult experiences I've been through--albeit, it has the virtue of being short. I was listening to "Elegia" by New Order when I smoked it, and felt a single note drop down my spine. I knew I was in for something traumatic. There was a tangible quality of reaching for myself and slipping and falling away. Every time I thought my experience could be no more empty another 'impossible vacuum' would appear and rip away yet another quality of self I didn't even sense I had until it was gone; like peeling away the layers of oblivion. I've since experience ego death two more times, but I belive that was the closest to the experience of death I've ever come. When I started to come back I was fairly convinced that there had been some unexpected interaction between the drugs and I had caused a stroke or something. Though maybe 25 minutes after smoking I was back in the normal DXM state. I am glad I did it but will not do it again. I imagine, for me at least, ketamine and 5-meo-DMT would result in a similar experience of endlessly compounding dissociation. Prime your memory with the thought that you will return; though you will not recall it during the experience, the repercussive impression the memory makes may nevertheless serve you well in the depths of it.
 
^ DPT has dissociative qualities and in combination with ketamine (both IM - generally at the same time) it really demolishes your ego, but not in a threatening way like I experienced from IM 5-Methoxy DMT.

Best way of describing the way DPT + ketamine hits me is like being strapped into a jet fighter ejection seat, then somebody pulls the ejection toggle, the canopy disappears and up & away I go. First time I tried it, just as it started to hit I was listening to Ejection by Robert Calvert (from Captain Lockheed & the Starfighters) - Hawkwind's singer - so I think it sort of influenced the whole thing!
 
samadhi_smiles said:
I have a healthy amount of fear for 5-meo-dmt, it hits me REALLY hard - like complete ego loss hard (like it does for most people I guess!)-

So, I am going to smoke a low dose of DMT, bump a 30mg line of K, and when I'm ready take a 14mg dose of 5-MeO-DMT -

woo, I haven't been this scared of doing a psychedelic for a long time - my fingers just started trembling right now typing this out actually!
Click to expand...

Rightly so, thats the big daddy! It will be interesting to see what the k adds. Already being slightly dissociated/relaxed could help the transition.

I'll be in the perfect nature environment this weekend for DMT. I'm going to try my first breakthrough. I plan to take ~30mg of ketamine approximately 30-60 minutes before hand.
 
I'm not so much looking for them to blend. The anti-depressant effect shown in studies didn't show up until after the primary effects had worn off. I'm more just looking for it to put me in a more positive frame of mind. I may take it earlier though.
 
E1, thats how I go with ketamine - I take it about a half hour to an hour before I dose the psychedelic (which if taken orally comes on at most in 15 mins)

so I am well out of the peak effects of the ketamine, and enjoying that calm and relaxed headspace -

I also do the same thing with DMT breakthroughs,

this is how I started my last 5-methoxy-DMT breakthrough trip a few months ago, I broke through on DMT, then an hour later (when I was still laying in my bed basking in that relaxation), I blasted off with the 5 methoxy - and the world disintegrated -
 
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