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The Big and Dandy Ketamine Thread (Archived start - 11-20-07)

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^ I've been thinking along those lines a lot lately (no pun intended). I read this article many years ago when K was some weird drug on Erowid I never thought I'd try but was fun to read about. :)

Thanks for pointing out the link!

Clinical usage is essentially the same as Exploratory, but it is also coupled with a specific agenda. In a clinical setting, you are intentionally seeking to induce a lucid dreamlike state or out-of-body experience with the purpose of working through inner conflict or resolving some destructive behavior pattern. The goal or outcome you wish to produce is defined by your set -- the state of mind you have when going into the session. The label which you give to Ketamine as you take it defines that set. Instead of Anesthetic or Dissociative, a more proper label for a sub-anesthetic dose of Ketamine might be Deep Relaxation Inducer (DRI), Stress Diagnostic Tool (SDT), or Internal Metaprogramming Interface (IMI).

When experimenting with a new substance, it is always best to be overly cautious and start with low doses.
This word play may seem silly on the surface, but we perceive and interact with objects based on the labels we give them. Ketamine is a powerful drug, and like many powerful drugs it can act as either a poison or a medicine.
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I think Ketamine is great, but without following proper guidelines it can turn from an amazing tool for consciousness exploration, to simply another drug. :\
 
Earlier today I took 40mg of Ketamine (racemic) and for some reason it didn't quite seem as strong as I remembered so I took another 25mg after about 15 minutes later.

It was my strongest experience yet (I'm a Keta-noob). Basically I just sat and listened to music which was very pleasant. With lower doses (30-40) I find Ketamine enhances sound and music, but I noticed that higher doses make it sound worse aesthetically. Probably the best comparison I can think of is DXM. Music is still fun to listen to, but rather than an increase in clarity, depth and separation of instruments common to tryptamines and phenethylamines, it gets muddy and loses a lot of top end.

Mentally, this wasn't a k-hole by any means, but I did notice CEV's and a sense of separation and detachment with my eyes closed.

For me, there is no sense of fear with ketamine and I think it would be a very good candidate for visionary exploration. When taking high doses of classical psychedelics I often find the emotional and entheogenic aspects quite strong and its hard to be detached and fearlessly explore my mind.

Maybe this has something to do with Ketamine's effects on the NMDA receptor and blocking glutamate ("stress floods the brain with glutamate")?

My hope is that after I've had some more visionary experience with ketamine, I'll be more able to just lay down on higher doses of something like 4-AcO-DMT and just dissolve... :|

I think ketamine is more likely to induce the classic OBE's and NDE's, which I'd really like to experience. Once the fear of death is fully eliminated, whats left to be afraid of?

(the Litany against fear)
 
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do you notice your ketamine experiences changing E1 -

I have noticed a change in my experiences with it - it gets me a lot more FUCKED up now and is less holy - there is less insight than when I first tried it -

a major reason for me deciding to stop using it for awhile-
 
e1evene1even said:
With lower doses (30-40) I find Ketamine enhances sound and music, but I noticed that higher doses make it sound worse aesthetically.
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Really? On higher doses (sub-K-hole or un-Hole-y =D ) I find music an overwhelming and beautiful experience.
In fact all my senses go up more than a few notches, without the slightest hint of the mentioned "muddiness".
Even get colorful synesthesia especially with eyes closed.

It's really like K can be anything to anybody.
The possibilities seem endless, IMO much more than any other drug I've tried.
 
samadhi_smiles said:
do you notice your ketamine experiences changing E1 -

I have noticed a change in my experiences with it - it gets me a lot more FUCKED up now and is less holy - there is less insight than when I first tried it -

a major reason for me deciding to stop using it for awhile-
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Today was my first time using it in over a month or so. I only had a sample and lost the last part of it :( The 250mg sample was my first time ever trying ketamine.

It will be hard to compare now to before as the most I had ever taken at once was 40mg.

Could the difference possibly be in that you had racemic before and S+ now?

It could be that you don't need it anymore. Perhaps theres a relationship with the therapeutic effects and after it has "done its work", the effects become different.

I'm finding its good for getting rid of some underlying negativity and after the novelty wears off, I'll probably keep it as an occasional thing. From what I've read so far, it seems easier to avoid habituation if you take moderate doses infrequently, than smaller amounts regularly.

After I get my feet wet a bit more, I could see myself taking a moderate dose once per week, but no more than that. Keep it something to look forward to, rather than something I just take whenever I feel like it.
 
Ptah said:
Really? On higher doses (sub-K-hole or un-Hole-y =D ) I find music an overwhelming and beautiful experience.
In fact all my senses go up more than a few notches, without the slightest hint of the mentioned "muddiness".
Even get colorful synesthesia especially with eyes closed.

It's really like K can be anything to anybody.
The possibilities seem endless, IMO much more than any other drug I've tried.
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Don't get me wrong, it was still emotionally powerful and it felt like the I was part of the music as it was happening rather than a spectator separated by time and speakers. I even noticed a lot of things in the music I hadn't before in multiple songs, edits and tonal changes between takes etc.

Its as if the ketamine 'enhanced' my auditory perception in some respects, but hindered it in others. Near the end of the experience though, things just got blurry. Maybe it was because I was closer to a k-whole after my supplementary dose. My outside perceptions were closing down. When you are anesthetized, it doesn't matter what the music sounds like. :|
 
I just found this and thought it was interesting.

Two psychological difficulties which seem to come up for those who use ketamine regularly are paranoia and egocentrism. There are many reports of regular users starting to see patterns and coincidences (synchronicities) in the world around them which seem to indicate that they are somehow more important or integral to the world than others. This same sense of the world focusing on the user can also feed into a sense of paranoia.

...

Warnings

Be aware that many people who use K see a new perspective on the world which seems to be quite ego-centric and conspiratorial. K can increase one’s sense of connection between events, synchronicities, etc. This, when interpreted in certain common ways, can lead one to believe that events are working out in ways which focus on the self.
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Can anyone relate to that?
 
Don't get me wrong, it was still emotionally powerful and it felt like the I was part of the music as it was happening rather than a spectator separated by time and speakers. I even noticed a lot of things in the music I hadn't before in multiple songs, edits and tonal changes between takes etc.
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Ketamine can do that for me more than any other drug and it's something I find fascinating. In fact my experiences with ketamine inspired me to start writing music again after many years of not bothering.

I also like music for the same reason when having a k-hole dose as it sets the mood for when I actually enter the hole and the music fades away in the background (one of my favourites is Johnny Nash - I Can See Clearly Now; it generally works as a trigger for the most incredible euphoria because of the lyrics).


Can anyone relate to that?
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I've had that happen a few times, but as long as you're aware that ketamine can cause such thoughts/feelings, you can generally just dismiss them as a little k-craziness and not take them seriously (although I suppose that might not be as easy for some people to see through)
 
The idea of paranoia on Ketamine is simply unimaginable, since the very state that K produces is a kind of anti-parnoia (I like to call it epinoia, buut thats just because I find the Ketamine state of mind very gnostic).
 
yea, I had many a OBE and NDE. just last night I dropped a couple roll and shot up K for the first time. I might have dosed a little too high.

Iwas wondering where my mind would go if I deied right there. Infact I WANTED to die, just for the experience. But when thought about, no i dont want this cause the old man is going to find my stash and needles/parafanalia. then theyd blame every bit of it on 'drugs'(in general) and possibly some new laws could come in that make drug use harder and lass fun.

But there I was laying on my bed locked into some bio/mechanical network as my soul was being prepared for the final extraction. Next thing I know Im being moved arround inside this network which I have come to call 'the everlasting machine', the rules of the universe, the one who punishes electrons for behaving like neutrons when exposed to gamma radiotion.;)

Stilll whirling though the network I understand that the 4th dementional 'jump' is not that far from reality, and it is here where god is found. Its like a punch to the brain, too much to absorb.

bring me to a question, anyone recommend a preferred muscle for IM?
can I IV in another vein in my body?how?
 
fastandbulbous said:
^ It's not during the intoxication, but later on during 'normal' life that all these weird thoughts can manifest themselves
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i have found this true in my case. i feel at complete peace with myself and the world and relieved when i fall into a k-hole but once it starts to wear off and i'm going back to baseline, i get these insane thoughts. the last time i did k, i got a bad feeling that a close friend of mine was arrested by the DEA. this wasn't at all the case (he's fine) but i couldn't get the thought outta my head for 2 days.

also, what are people's experiences with s-ketamine and racemic? i have taken both but it seems that with s-ketamine it takes a little bit more to get me to where i want to be. just wanted to see if this was true with others.
 
I didn't like the S I tried (single batch, several attempts). Got confused and nauseous.
Racemic works fine.
Haven't tried R, which for some reason (plz enlighten me) seems very rare.
 
Really? S+ is much more potent (but slightly different, less numbing etc.) and much less common. Racemic is the by far the most common type (AFIAK).
 
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Jansen, K. L. R. (1996) Using ketamine to induce the near -death experience: mechanism of action and therapeutic potential. Yearbook for Ethnomedicine and the Study of Consciousness (Jahrbuch furr Ethnomedizin und Bewubtseinsforschung) Issue 4, 1995 (Ed.s C. Ratsch; J. R. Baker); VWB, Berlin, pp55-81.

Abstract
Near-death experiences (NDE's) can be induced using the dissociative drug ketamine. Advances in neuroscience have recently provided us with new insights as to the mechanisms involved at the mind -brain interface. On the 'brain' side, it is now clear that these NDE's are due to blockade of brain receptors (drug binding sites) for the neurotransmitter glutamate. These binding sites are called the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors. Conditions which precipitate NDE's (low oxygen, low blood flow, low blood sugar, temporal lobe epilepsy etc.) have been shown to release a flood of glutamate, over-activating NMDA receptors. This overactivation can kill brain cells ('excito' toxicity). Ketamine prevents excitotoxicity. Conditions which trigger a glutamate flood may also trigger a flood of ketamine-like brain chemicals which bind to NMDA receptors to protect cells, leading to an altered state of consciousness like that produced by ketamine. On the 'mind' side, induction of NDE's has psychotherapeutic value via several routes which will be explored in this article...
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8o

The whole paper is awesome for those that haven't read it...
 
diche said:
man its been more than 24 hours and my muscles are still sore as fuck, and look to be clearing anytime soon. i want oxy
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"It is common to have muscle pain when injecting larger doses of liquid Ketamine into muscle tissue. The pain can continue for several days if it is not administered properly. The muscle soreness can be somewhat controlled by using a very fine (small gauge) needle and by injecting very slowly. It should take 15-30 or more seconds to inject a dose into a muscle. If you feel it begin to sting, slow down the injection rate. IM and IV administration generally produce a higher peak, and a shorter overall duration than other methods."
 
fastandbulbous said:
Top of the thigh or the gluteus maximus (the buttocks!). Look at a site about diabetes fgor the best sites to IM
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I'm sure most diabetics use subcutaneous injection as opposed to IM? I found steroid websites a greater help in finding IM sites, I generally always use the thigh.

As for the ego-centrism and paranoia, yeah I can relate to that a lot, not seeing a pattern as such more just an increased feeling that you know how the world works and an inflated self of self importance for a period after heavy (ab)use. Another thing I find is that I start relating everything I see to ketamine experiences (this film is a lot like a ketamine experience etc.).

diche said:
man its been more than 24 hours and my muscles are still sore as fuck, and look to be clearing anytime soon. i want oxy
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I find that certain spots will ache for ages, I think that it's down to poor technique as on more recent occasions I haven't even had the slightest soreness afterwards. Make sure your muscle is relaxed as possible, having tense muscles when injecting seems to cause great soreness afterwards.
 
Yaaay!!!!!!! for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The idea of paranoia on Ketamine is simply unimaginable, since the very state that K produces is a kind of anti-parnoia (I like to call it epinoia, buut thats just because I find the Ketamine state of mind very gnostic).
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Jamyshydy, don't mistake subjectivity for truth. I personally get rather paranoid of small doses of ketamine; thus I have never experinced a particualry interesting or relaxing high/trip from it- just awkawrd socialising and confusion. I think any drug (bar a GABA aganist) can cause paranoia. Actually even GABA agonists I guess, look at a amanita-ed person- they don't seem to chilled. I guess thats the muscarinic part those....and alchohol, that can certianly bring out paranoia. So to end that, any drug can cause paranoi IMO even ketamine. :)
 
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