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The Big and Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread (Archive start - 4-14-2008)

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There's really no need to soak HBW/MG in water and filter out the seeds and drink the water. It's more efficient to just toss n wash the ground seeds, pack them in capsules or mix them with a beverage and chug. Sure, you might get bad nausea for a few hours but once you throw up all your nausea will prob. disappear.

The great thing about eating the seed powder is it ensures you get the maximum amount of LSA's, whereas, IMO soaking the seeds in water and discarding the seed mush will only extract some of the LSA's leaving you a weaker, duller trip.

I just need to find what beverage or food (pudding or yogurt or peanut butter perhaps?) MG seeds best mix with to mask the taste and texture. With HBW I always pack my seed powder in OOO capsules. I can't do this with MG because I eat 15-20 grams usually which is SOOO much powder to fit in capsules :(

For one's first experience with HBW I'd recommend you eat 6-10 seeds. Once you're accustomed to the effects try 10-15 seeds. With a new batch of HBW I'd always say start with a low dose as you don't know the potency of the seeds plus some batches cause far more vasoconstriction and nausea than others. The nausea can be somewhat lessened by preloading on fresh Ginger (toss n washed, packed in capsules, drank as a tea or Reed's ginger ale) and smoking MJ during the trip. The vasoconstriction can be fixed by using vasodilating supplements like L-Arginine and taking a hot bath.

If you want a psychedelic, stimulating trip go with MG, not HBW. Generally, I find HBW to be much heavier, more narcotic, sedating and stoning than MG. MG is a more alert and visual trip. I do like that the effects of HBW kick in slower and last longer for me. I'd like to try combining HBW and MG some time. I'm also curious how HBW/MG would synergize with Psilocybe. The sleepy, sluggish feeling of HBW can be somewhat counteracted by taking stimulating nootropics (Piracetam, DMAE), herbs (Rhodiola, Japanese Sweet Flag 5X extract) and supplements (CoQ10, Acetyl L-Carnitine)

If you want a balls to the wall HBW/MG trip preload on a high dose of Piracetam and 3-4 grams of ground Syrian Rue or 150-300 mg of Moclobemide. You'll get a much longer, more visual, more euphoric, spaced out trip.

I've got 25 grams of Burpee brand Heavenly Blue that I'm saving for a rainy day. I think I might combine it with L or Psilocybe some time. Right now I'm trying to let my tolerance to Lysergamides go down as I've used LSA containing seeds prob. over 40 times in the last year...I find it so hard to abstain from HBW for more than a week or 2 without craving another trip on it. Good quality HBW can be OH so euphoric. The trip really spoils me and makes lesser psychedelics seem so boring and uninspiring.

Some time soon I'll prob. order some Madagascar HBW, as I remember them being far more potent, visual and less nauseating than the Hawaiian strain. It's a damn shame I only see the Madagascar HBW available from European vendors and their shipping is outrageous. If anyone needs good HBW sources hit me up. I'm always glad to help my fellow psychonauts, especially BLers :)
 
Hmmm... I'll try the capping idea. I’ve never been one much for drawn out processes if they’re not necessary. Plus I’m not too terribly concerned about nausea; I expect there to be some nausea, and I’ve got an iron clad stomach. I can’t even remember the last time I’ve thrown up from ANYTHING. Including eating some cub’s with over a ¼ oz. of fly agaric and then sitting down and drinking some beers. Probably wasn't the best idea to do, but you see my point. Thanks for the input!
 
With OOO sized capsules it doesn't take many at all to fit a dose of HBW powder. Just make sure you're HBW is ground as finely as POSSIBLE. If the seeds aren't ground finely the LSA's in them won't absorb well. I prefer a coffee grinder for the grinding process. I'd say the day of your trip only eat a full meal early in the day. The rest of the day at the most only eat light snacks. It is good to have a tiny bit of food in your stomach when you swallow the HBW because if you have a totally empty stomach and get sick you could dry heave (def. NOT fun). If you do get nausea try to fight it for a few hours then if an hour or 2 after HBW ingestion you still feel sick, feel free to throw up. You'll prob. instantly feel much better. I say try to wait an hr or 2 before throwing up to ensure all the LSA's have absorbed. For some reason if I throw HBW seed powder right in my mouth I get much more nausea than swallowing HBW in capsules.
 
Hey, im gonna give my hbwr seeds that i just recently found in my draw a go.

I got 30 all up, but they are kind of weak(i did 10 once and got no effects, though i dunno if i did them properly).

So, i was thinking a water extraction would be a easier way to go.

A was thinking:

smash and grind the seeds up and turn them into a fine powder
mix with a few drops of water a let turn into a paste for 15 min or so.

put the paste into a bottle or jar of somesort, shake up and let sit in a dark space(my wardrobe) overnight.

Strain crap out(the seeds) and drink funky tasting water.

Any problem with this, also, should i remove husks or doesnt matter, and is it better to leave for a few days than just overnight?

could i put this concoction up my ass?
 
You did 10 HBW seeds by what preparation method and got “no effects”? If you grinded the seeds finely and ate them and got no effects you got really shitty seeds. They might be totally bunk. I once had the misfortune of getting bunk HBW and I ate up to 40 at once to NO EFFECT. Whereas, I’ve had quality HBW where I got good effect from only 5 seeds (back when I didn’t have a tolerance to HBW).

Why do you feel that a water extraction would make the HBW’s effects any stronger? Doesn’t make any sense. The only advantage people report with extracts is less nausea. If you plan to smash and grind the seeds just make sure to get them as powderized as possible. Maybe last time you didn’t grind them thoroughly enough, man. In all likelihood, if anything, your water extract of HBW will be weaker than if you just ate ground seeds.

If you insist on doing a water extraction make sure to use purified water, not tap water, as tap water can contain toxins that destroy the LSA’s. And if you plan to soak the seeds in your water overnight make sure to use a really airtight container like a jar (ideal) or Tupperware (less ideal). And make sure you keep your HBW water in the fridge. Light, air, heat and moisture destroy LSA’s. I’m unsure as to whether the LSA’s will be better extracted into the water if you let the seeds soak for one night versus a few nights. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the process of straining your seeds out of the water you lose some of the LSA’s.

Also, don’t worry about scraping the coating off the seeds. If you’d read this thread more closely you’d see I’ve stated before that it’s never been proven that the nausea inducing alkaloids are contained in the seeds’ outercoating. This is a very outdated myth that keeps being spread around the net and believed by LSA newbies. I’ve tried HBW seeds both with the coating intact and without the coating and noted absolutely no difference in the resulting nausea.

As far as rectal use…I actually recently researched rectal use of MG/HBW a lot online myself. I searched through many psychonaut forums for people’s experiences with plugging (i.e. rectally using) LSA containing seeds. The consensus is there’s no increase in potency compared to oral use and that, if anything, you’ll get a much milder trip. I have a friend who tried HBW recently rectally himself and was unsatisfied and found the trip much weaker than an oral dose. He put HBW powder in a capsule and slid it up his lubricated (hopefully he used lubrication!) ass. Some folks online plug MG/HBW by making the seed powder into a liquid form, putting it in an anima bulb and squirting this up their bum.

If you want an alternative to oral administration of LSA’s try using HBW sublingually. I hear the effects kick in faster and there’s considerably less nausea. For some reason a few people on Erowid, when using HBW sublingually, added acidic fruit juices like orange juice to the HBW powder (does this increase potency or just mask the nasty HBW taste?) that they held in their mouths (people report holding it in their mouth 20 mins to an hour).

Remember, folks, if you don’t want to risk getting real nauseous from LSA, try Rivea seeds rather than HBW or MG, as many people online report Rivea causes far less nausea.
 
The Wizard said:
For one's first experience with HBW I'd recommend you eat 6-10 seeds. Once you're accustomed to the effects try 10-15 seeds. With a new batch of HBW I'd always say start with a low dose as you don't know the potency of the seeds plus some batches cause far more vasoconstriction and nausea than others. The nausea can be somewhat lessened by preloading on fresh Ginger (toss n washed, packed in capsules, drank as a tea or Reed's ginger ale) and smoking MJ during the trip. The vasoconstriction can be fixed by using vasodilating supplements like L-Arginine and taking a hot bath.
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So if I were to just wash down some MG seed powder, how well does Ginger help in the nausea? I'm considering dosing a somewhat lowish dose while camping this weekend, however, this would be my first time with the seeds so I'm trying to determine whether it would be too too much nausea for camping. I don't mind some nausea, just don't want crippling pain in the forest.
 
I find the nausea to be crippling and then after about 2 hours, you are in full blown psychedelia. I tried HBWR this weekend and was struck by its utter emotional depth and the LSD-like visuals. I am happy I tried it and it definteley brought out my emotions more than LSD but was less cosmic than good ol acid.
 
I've only tried using Ginger as a nausea aid once and that was with HBW seeds. I drank a bottle of Reed's Ginger Ale (17 grams of Ginger per bottle; a lot of brands of ginger ale nowadays actually don't contain ginger and are just ginger ale flavored) before swallowing HBW and then later when I was feeling waves of nausea I sipped on a second bottle of ginger ale which did seem to help decrease the nausea, although I did still eventually throw up.

It's rare, though, that I don't throw up on HBW. I've come to totally accept the nausea and vomiting aspect of HBW and view it as kind of a rite of passage and cleansing ritual. And I always feel immensely better after barfing. Majority of the time I only throw up once and then the nausea immediately vanishes and the trip instantly becomes euphoric. I feel so relieved once the nausea ends because then I can enjoy a totally clean, pure trip. There literally isn't any downside to HBW for me except the nausea and the fact I build tolerance to it if I trip too much.

If you plan to be go camping don't leave till after the nausea passes or you vomit. I usually vomit 2 or 3 hours into the trip. I try to always wait at least 2 hrs till vomiting to ensure my body has absorbed all of the LSA's.

I'm not sure whether it would be better to use fresh Ginger brewed as a tea or to drink a lot of Reed's Ginger Ale. I guess either is better than nothing. Just make sure not to use other brands of ginger ale as they prob. don't contain real ginger. Whole Foods carries Reed's Ginger Ale by the way.
 
I have done the sublingual method before. It's kind of difficult to do because you have to hold the well-chewed seeds in your mouth for a long time, pretty much until you can't anymore. The thing is, eventually you won't be able to because your mouth will be filled with too much saliva and your lips and cheeks and jaw will hurt from holding in that much liquid for so long.

Anyway, the effects are very nice this way. I didn't get any nausea whatsoever... in fact I felt very excellent the whole time, a truly wholesome and great feeling. I chewed 11 strong seeds total. Probably 6 or 7 of them would have been the same strength if I chewed and swallowed them, except chewing them would include nausea and bodyload (at least for a while). Also, something about it seemed more recreational and less psychedelic... something about the darkness of the body load and then finally expelling it is a very powerful experience. Anytime it is actually, but especially on a psychedelic. Any time I throw up on psychedelics the trips end up being thrown into high gear but almost always in a good way. The only thing is it also includes a difficult come-up. It's a goos trade-off, I'd say.
 
Did sublingual HBW kick in faster for u than oral? Was it a shorter trip? And when you say less body load does this include less vasoconstriction side effects like muscle cramps?
 
Actually yes, it was also free of vasoconstriction. I hate the feeling of vasoconstriction, especially in the legs. I have used a lot of DOC, and although it didn't do this in my early days of using it, nowadays it causes terrible vasoconstriction, worse than LSAs do. I can feel the tightness of some huge vein in my leg, femoral artery perhaps. I feel it pulling, a little stretch, when I walk until I gently stretch it out. Gives me shivers just to think about it.

Anyway, it was actually the same timeframe. It still took 1.5 to 2 hours to feel, and 4 hours to reach a gentle peak.
 
As I've said before vasodilating drugs like L-Arginine can really help when one is suffering from a nasty vasoconstriction feeling. I'm not suprised to hear how toxic DOC felt. I've long assumed the DOx class of drugs is prob. fairly toxic, seeing as how they're amphetamine related aren't they? Does Bromo-Dragonfly feel any safer? Last year I sampled a lot of really funny tasting (a strongly bitter, chemical taste) blotters which resembled the DOx's in how long it took to kick in, the speediness and intensity, and how long the experience lasted. At first I found these DOx blotters interesting and insightful but as I developed a tolerance they just became party substances. I hated how when I'd dose on them I'd end up being up way, way over 24 hours.

I MUCH prefer the feeling of good HBW or L or Psilocybe to that DOx crap. I'd say other than L the cleanest synthetic I've ever sampled is good ol 2ce, which had very little body load for me (aside from nausea). I often did 30-50 mg of 2ce in a sitting and found no increase in body load. I'd really like to try 4-aco-dipt. Wish I could find a supplier for that :(
 
You know, I experienced the same thing with DOC. At first it was amazing, some of my best psychedelic experiences were on it. But after a while, despite physical tolerance, it was only mildly psychedelic and just made me extremely social and animated, a great party drug, but not really even the same drug. And that's when it started to get vasoconstrictive. It's a shame, but really phenibut does exactly the same thing without the side effects and with a much shorter duration and without psychedelic edges and drawn-out weirdness.

Although, it's not quite the same as DOC. I do love DOC's state of mind, but I'm starting to think I won't use it again.

And I haven't tried bromo-dragonfly. I have a sample, so I will try it one day. I have a feeling I will like it. The descriptions make it sound like it will do to DOB what 2C-B-fly did to 2C-B, and I loved 2C-B-fly. The fly structure made it much, much gentler, more etheral, and more delicate but no less good.
 
It amazes me how many different highs HBW has reminded me of. It's reminded me of the high from KB or LSD or mushrooms, E or 2CE or Opiates at times.

And HBW combines OHHH so nicely with KB, 2CE, E, Kratom, DXM or opiates.

Has anyone tried to trip on Sleepy Grass? I assume this isn't a good source for psychoactive LSA's.

How do the trips from Heavenly Blue, Flying Saucers, Wedding Bells, Pearly Gates, and Blue Star MG seeds differ?
 
The Wizard said:
Has anyone tried to trip on Sleepy Grass? I assume this isn't a good source for psychoactive LSA's.
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hah, unless your a grazing cow i'd suspect it would just be better to stick with the seeds, though you could be like my dog and love to eat grass daily :D

the wikipedia article states the grass only contains lysergic's when infected with a fungus, and contains a form of acetone.. sounds a bit toxic
 
What drugs have you guys tried HBW in combination with?

My list is: 2CE, L, DXM, MDxx, Kratom, Hydrocodone, Japanese Sweet Flag 5X, MJ, Syrian Rue, Piracetam, DMAE, Caffeine, Alcohol, Wild Dagga and mild health supplements not worth listing
 
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