The Big and Dandy DXM Thread (archive start - 12-13-07)

[swilow]

Merged in question on DXM and asthma.

 

[mulberryman]

What do these statistics indicate?

Well, obviously teenagers are going to be using more DXM or any most any drug, they are coming of age and learning to experiment upon their experinences. Its entirely natural that teenagers should use more drugs than older people and they have been doing so since humans first started picking mushrooms from the bak of the caves thay lived in. Statistics can of course be easily manipulated, but I'd wager that similar statistics could show the same patters for cannabis, cocaine, amphetamines, prescription drugs, and of course any OTC drug, most of which are far more riskier to overuse or 'abuse' than many rx drugs (DXM excluded, as it is relativley safe, risk of death doesn't normally occur until at least 15 grams is consumed in most cases, unless mixed with other drugs). One possible obvious exception would of course be alcohol, and teenagers' drinking is not uncommon at all regardless of age restrictions. I this I would agree only education can be the answer, as prohibition of any kind simply does not work.

 

[Pink1966Floyd]

your gona belive those statistics, didnt you notice the .gov in the web address, come on, dead give away!

 

[Soma24]

I was just going over the chemistry at work in DXM extraction, this is how I understand the initial reaction goes, please correct me if I'm wrong:

DXMHBr + NaOH --> DXM + NaBr + H2O

I noticed that Sodium Bromide (NaBr) is an anti-convulsant, which I thought was kinda funny seeing as how so many people throw up after ingesting DXM... I also noticed that Bromide on it's own is a sedative, do you think this is why they use DXMHBr in cough syrups and not DXMHCl or something??

Just thinking out loud.

 

[rogan]

^ Those statistics are why I fully support the pharmacies that require you to be 18+ to buy DXM. Seriously focus on school, smoke pot and drink- if I had of found DXM while I was in high school I would be one of those statistics.

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ Honestly, you shouldn't even smoke pot and drink until you're at least 18. I did, but I wish I hadn't now (although I'm happy with the way things turned out). But I do feel that kids using drugs screws with brain development. I've noticed that most people who end up compulsiuve drug users started when they were not matured yet, whereas most of the responsible drug users I know started later, 18, 19, even 20+. Hell, I started at 17 and I notice that in myself. And most people I know started before 17. Some as young as 12.

 

[Bare_head]

was you 17 before trying any drugs including alcohol and cannabis? I smoked from the age of 14 its a big problem now i need really to get off it.. Is it willpower?

 

[Xorkoth]

Yes, I didn't do any drugs at all until my 17th birthday. From what I've seen, it could generally be said that the younger you begin using drugs:

1 - the less likely you are to be using them responsibly

2 - The less willpower you'll have with them throughout your life.

This is just what I've noticed. My friends who started before me are either drug-free now (following a disaster) or are in a bad place, my friends who started with me are little better, and my friends who started at 20,21+ are (most of them) able to just do drugs occasionally in a responsible way and are not focused on them.

But yes, it's willpower. Plain and simple. Not that I have a whole lot of it or anything.

 

[rolls]

I would say its got something to do with as your brain is still developing it really hard wires in the reward pathways that drugs create.

 

[mulberryman]

What would you say to those who may argue that because of better nutrition and less environmental stress (in industrialized countries, anyway), puberty and adolesence is reached sooner in most individuals. Young people are going to experiment with whatever they can. Maybe it is time we should stop encouraging abstinence as the only answer to all of life's mystery. Maybe its time we just admit to ourselves that its ok that we can make choices for ourselves and educate our children accordingly, instead of just kidding ourselves with all this "just say no" crap, that's really just another way we ignore our society's problems and pass the buck on to the next generation.

 

[WaseFraKa]

^maybe they reach it sooner but they don't mature sooner. I would completely disagree with what you're saying, teenagers are as stupid as they always were, and I can see it every day...
it's not because you have everything at hand that you are cleverer than somebody who has struggled to get where he is...

 

[mulberryman]

Well you may see them as stupid, but in the grand course of things, their actually alot smarter than teenagers say, 400 years ago, who btw, would have been considered adults well before being 18. Also, if you see them as in need of understanding and enlightenment, then teach them instead of just complaining about it.

 

[mulberryman]

I don't encourage people, especially teenagers to take DXM. I do encourage people to take DXM responsibly. example:

This is interesting, I've just read that DXM can block the absorbtion of vitamin B12, and anyone taking it for extended periods may need to take B12 supplements.

And oh, yeah, I've never told anyone to extract it, thats just plain stupid, unless you're a experienced chemist.

DXM, nor any drug should be treated like the devil. DXM can be a valuable teacher, and yes, it is a complicated drug that we need to respect more instead of putting it in cough syrup we give to young children. Funny you mention finding out about DXM on the internet. I found out about it at ~age 9, I'm guessing, when I had a cold... mommy, I want more cough syrup please...

I think we actually agree on many of the points you raised, though maybe not so much on how we solve them.

...

I find this to not be the case. In the average American high school, pot is king, in the suburbs, at least, in the city, its crack and heroin, in the country, there's alot of meth (often kitchen crank, directly extrated from the L-methamphetamine products sold OTC here), angeldust (sometimes really extracted DXM), homegrown mushrooms, and the weed is higher quality. Then of course there's ecstacy now, and its everywhere. Frankly, its easier for many adults to just get DXM though, since not having those kind of connections. If the kids are using DXM, that may even be a good thing, since at least they bought it legally, and the products are labelled with exactly how much of what is in there. (I don't want to go into too much detail here about LD-50's and such, though the science does back me up when I say DXM is also far safer than alot of other drugs easily obtainable in the average H.S.) I think we can agree that DXM is marketed incorrectly. Honestly, I don't even think it works to stifle a cough, and should be kept behind the counters next to pints of Jim Beam and Cap't Morgans. (next to the empty spots where cannabis, cocaine, LSD, and morphine belong) We have to stop kidding ourselves that prohibition is the answer.

 

[mulberryman]

^^ Well, I wouldn't say that BL is primarily a bunch of young people. In fact, of most of the forum and blog sites I've seen, this one seems the most educated. And no neither heroin nor DXM (or joints for that matter) should be OTC in pharmacies. They should be BTC, and with age restictions, and of course purity and dosage standards, and with warning labels, of course, not to mention pharmacists' discressions as to who to sell what to. That would be far safer than them trading that kind of stuff in the school halls as they do now.

 

[Soma24]

I found out about DXM on the internet, but I also found out about the safest ways to use DXM from the very same site... If I'd just found out about it from someone on the streets I probably wouldn't have any of the harm minimisation info I have now.

While there may be way more kids doing DXM now they probably have way more info at their finger tips too, so an increase in usage may not necessarily mean a huge increase in problems with the drug.

My 2c

 

[PiotrZak]

That's a good point. Practically all the drug sites I've seen mention that you shouldn't use Coricidin recreationally, in no uncertain terms. And misuse of Coricidin used to be fairly common (maybe still is, in some places?).

I learned about DXM from the Internet, and I do agree that I should've been older than 16 when I first tried it. But there's something to be said for accurate information.

 

[Pothedd]

still take coricidin sometimes, only like 8 tho, mixed with some mucinex or robo gels. took some today. good day. got lots of dxm products in my room now. gonna take 1200+mg sometime here, tonight or tomorrow, idk

 

[Obyron]

Despite how often it is insisted upon that the intention of this forum is 'harm reduction', I can't help but wonder how much harm it (and other forums like it) actually cause rather than reduce.

Are you really suggesting that having all the information you can is a bad thing? The first assumption of the Harm Reduction model is that you can't stop people from doing drugs or having loose sex or drinking or any number of other things, and that, instead, it's preferable to make sure they're doing it as safely as possible.

Because DXM is readily available as it is present in OTC cough syrups, it is being abused by people who would otherwise not be able to score hard drugs. To suggest that DXM isn't a hard drug is ludicrous.

If it's not DXM it's going to be something else. I would frankly rather see kids using DXM to get fucked up than DPH, dimenhydrinate, datura seeds, or other dangerous legal highs. I'm aware that it's a logical fallacy to say "anticholinergics are worse, so DXM is okay by comparison," and I'm not trying to say that DXM use is safe or should be promoted. I'm trying to say you're not going to stop kids from doing drugs, and DXM is a hell of a lot better than some of the other options. The only thing I can realistically do is urge anyone doing any drug to educate themselves about the risks, and about the safest possible way to use said drug.

If anything your statistics indicate how dangerous prohibition is. If teenagers are going to get fucked up I'd really rather seem them smoke pot or eat mushrooms or something (it was good enough for me!) instead of feeling like they have to dodge around and chug cough syrup because it's easier to get than something illicit. If better, safer highs were legally available in a form that would be subject to regulation and quality control less people would be getting hurt doing DXM and other easily abused OTC medications.

But if wishes were horses even beggars would ride. Until I wake up and find myself in a fantasy land where an epidemic of common sense suddenly sweeps the world, I'm going to have to settle for believing it's best for kids to have all the information they can so they can make SAFER choices, if not safe choices. It's the best of all the bad options.

 

[mulberryman]

That's a good point. Practically all the drug sites I've seen mention that you shouldn't use Coricidin recreationally, in no uncertain terms. And misuse of Coricidin used to be fairly common (maybe still is, in some places?).

Its the whole "triple C" thing that got that started, it must have sounded cool or something, its not safe though too much antihistamine involved.

Time for some more good ol'fashioned harm reducing info again in this thread.

Be very careful to add up dosages of everything involved, in your usages of DXM. More than the following amounts of common OTC cold meds is just not safe:

Acetaminophen: 2000mg or less, causes liver damage even though you may not notice any adverse effects, it should be avoided especially when consuming alcohol.
Diphenhydramine: 100mg or less
Clorpheniramine: 20mg or less
Doxylamine: 75mg or less
Guaifenesin can be tolerated in dosages of 1-3 grams or more, but generally should be avoided as it has numerous unpleasant side effects.

*keep in mind this is geared for average sized adult, younger and smaller people should generally consume less. As its been said, its always best to avoid all products containing anything other than DXM as the active ingredients.

 

[mulberryman]

It is intersting the comparisons being inferred between DXM and cannabis. Cannabis, while far safer than almost any OTC drug, when used overly frequently over a period of time can cause depression and anxiety. DXM, on the other hand, being a partial serotonin reuptake inhibitor, has some potential to relieve some of these symptoms. So it would seem that since cannabis is preferrable in its effects and usually quite available to young people, DXM's being used infrequently as an alternative (and used safely, of course), may actually fit a functional model of self-medicating behaviour.

I should mention that I don't normally use it anymore because of only one particular side effect of aq sexual nature that doesn't fit into my current lifestyle, being in a committed relationship (though I have used it occasionally, when we've been apart). Upon pondering, it could be possible that use of DXM may in fact reduce teenage sexual behaviour and pregnancy, though it seems the sexual side effects are more pronounced in older people so that may not in fact be the case. It would be intersting to see if a corelating study were done on this possibility.