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The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT thread - New incarnation

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psilocybonaut, not to be mean, but don't you understand enough about your own mind by now to make up these decisions for yourself?

It seems like every time I log onto Bluelight, you are asking about another high-dose cocktail and asking what people think.

People say the same thing to you over and over again: go for it if you feel like you are ready, its going to be intense, its going to probably be incapacitating at times, you'll fry your receptors doing that for the long-run, take long breaks in between, have a trip sitter, be in a good mindset, etc etc.

I do not know why we have to go over this same ground with you time and time again.

Again, not meant in an ill-willed manner...I just don't get where you're coming from man.

S_S
 
I do not know how cross-tolerance will affect my trip if I mix both 4-ACO-DMT and LSD. I believe that my tryptamine tolerance will shoot up once the LSD kicks in, and I know there's cross tolerance between LSD and mushrooms. Would I need to ingest both at the same time (instead of waiting to take the 4-aco-dmt) to completely avoid tolerance? Or should I just mix it with a PEA instead like the one of the ones mentioned below?

I don't want to barely feel the 4-ACO pr have any tryptamine tolerance when I take it, so i'm not sure when I should take it, because I don't know much about cross-tolerance.

I'm not asking how to "handle" a hard trip, I know how to do this on my own, thank you very much. I'm simply asking if the combo will be relatively safe and some opinions on dose, synergy, etc. If this is against the rules, then I will stop.

Samadhi_Smiles: No, I do not know enough about physiological/neural/receptor reactions to certain compounds and combos, as I'm sure many do not. I don't know if certain combos will be dangerous (due to mild MAO inhibition) and many other things, I am not an encyclopedia. And there really aren't any trip reports of this mix from what I've seen. So, this is not a harm reduction board? I'm asking if this combo would be safe and I'm asking about cross-tolerance. I'm not asking if "I could handle it" or something, you have got the wrong idea. So, when I am doing a mix for the first time, I should just jump into it, not knowing if it will be dangerous to my health and not knowing about cross-tolerance? If you don't want to read my threads then don't.

But I am asking legitimate questions here, like peoples' opinions on what would be the best chemical to mix with LSD to increase my trip safely (4-aco-dmt, 2c-b, 2c-i, dom, 2c-t-7, 5-meo-dipt, mdma, dpt, ?) and also a time range to avoid tolerance. I think I'm using the board for its intended purpose.
 
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well, I apologize if you are asking whether 4-aco-DMT and LSD will exhibit cross-tolerance, then yes, they will, as they both act on 5HT2a receptors (the main receptor that is relevant for our purposes).

In my experience, bombarding yourself with multiple drugs in one short time span will get you VERY high and often disoriented to the point of incapacitation. It will also downregulate your receptors very much so (although I do not think there are so unspecific that this will result in depression, mood instability, although it could).

If you took a large dose of LSD then later took a large dose of 4-AcO-DMT (say greater than 20mg) you would DEFINITELY feel this, the short-term tolerance people speak of on this board is largely inexistent in my experience.

Chemicals that I have dosed repeatedly with good success: DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, DPT, and 4-HO-DMT.

The phens are typically more touchy about short-term tolerance (I've tried 2CB and 2CE a couple hours after an initial dose and had minimal returns).

The real bad stuff to watch out for with redosing are the monoamine releasers like methamphetamine, MDxx, methylone, etc etc. These can put you in a VERY uncomfortable place with redosing (and do exponentially more damage than single doses).

Again, I meant no ill-will toward your postings. I only meant to interject a word of caution against high repeated dosing. I have had friends who have put themselves in semi-long-term places, mentally, that they did not want to be in (confused mentally, anxious, depressed, etc) as a result of taking too many drugs too fast (this includes psychedelics).

Less is more
 
I was thinking of mixing it with a low-medium dose of DOM HCl (like 5mg), but I think that would just be too long of a trip and too hard on the body.

I wish there was a way to do the 4-ACO-DMT a few hours after the LSD without worrying about cross-tolerance. I know I will *feel* it, especially IV, but I'd like tolerance to play the smallest part possible.

If I mixed them, I would need to take them at the same time or close, right? Like, taking the blotter, and then 45 min after take oral 4-ACO-DMT. I don't think that I'm going to IV it.

Would 2C-B (and maybe MDMA too) be a better choice? Does it noticeably/dramatically increase/change an LSD trip for the better for most? What would be a good oral dosage and when would I take the 2C-B (before, at the same time, or after the LSD--how many hours?) for the best results?

And would it be better, if I decided to candyflip with the 2C-B and LSD, to take the MDMA before or after the 2C-B? I've heard people say different ways (MDMA before 2C-B, MDMA after 2C-B, MDMA at the same time) that they prefer, so I was wondering what you guys think the best regimen would be? I am very experienced with LSD, MDMA, 2C-B, and 4-ACO-DMT alone, and have done them countless times.

My acid's weak (probably less than 65mcg/hit, I am so disappointed), and I want to get the most out of it I possibly can. Any suggestions will help, especially about 4-ACO-DMT or 2C-B.
 
i took a good dose of LSD on the tail end of 20mg 2C-B, i had an amazing time with more euphoria than usual & no tolerance issues whatsoever.

however, now we are getting off topic. :]

on topic: OH MY GOD I WANT TO TRY 4-ACO-DMT SO BAD, SO SO SO BAD. WHY ISN'T IT MORE COMMON? WHY?!
 
WHY ISN'T IT MORE COMMON? WHY?!
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Because it is Quasi-Schedule 1...it converts to psilocin in the brain, which is Schedule 1. I think chemists are afraid to synth it... I got the last 1.5g of a certain vendor's stash... And he's shutting down and I have no source to get more. I will have to make what I have last.
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How could I get around the cross-tolerance of mixing LSD and 4-ACO-DMT? I'd like to do it IV, but oral would be fine if I can't avoid cross-tolerance with IV as well as I can with oral (if i can at all).

If I do it within a certain time frame of taking the LSD (either oral or IV), like before or after or at the same time, could I possibly avoid the (seemingly inevitable) cross-tolerance?

I'm probably going to do it orally, but I find IV 4-ACO-DMT on its own and with MDMA to be so so pleasurable and DMT like, I have a strong temptation to mix it with LSD, I think it would be awesome. It sounds like it might be hard on the body (and possibly rocket me into a ++++, which isn't bad). Does this sound like a bad idea, like should I stick to oral? The mix itself would not be much different than mixing LSD and mushrooms, which is not unsafe. It would only be the IV thing that's different. If I IV'ed it, I think I would do a much lower dose, like maybe 15mg? I'm not quite sure how or if I'm even going to do this yet, I might mix it with 2C-B. But 4-ACO-DMT I know would be more of the intensity I'm looking for. Is there a way to avoid the cross tolerance, at least mostly?

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So a dose of LSD on the tail end of a 2C-B trip? I'm looking to increase the intensity as much as possible, and I would think that I would take the 2C-B sometime during the LSD trip. Am I wrong? Do I take the 2C-B before (or after)?
 
Here is a brief description of the ++++ that my best friend got from 25mg of 4-ACO-DMT fumarate injected intravenously. I thought it may be interesting to you guys.
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My friend got to a +4 from 25mg intravenously. Right after injection, he vomited into a bucket (he vomits from almost all hallucinogens except LSD). He laid on my bed and became unresponsive (if he talked he didn't know where he was, just asking questions like "what the fuck"). He said was pushed/led through an Aztec jungle for a while with animals (he said there were a few brief moments of fear during this time), and then saw a huge holy fractal beautiful Aztec-like geometric temple. He was led inside, and he said there were yellow "bird-people" (people with wings but their faces were bird like) and some sort of energy that looked like fire almost, that was dancing around him as he manipulated it, and extremely strange music (like Shpongle but he could control it), and he was able to completely manipulate all of the hallucinations and music. It was like they were serving him. He said he was elevated to the level of Christ or Buddha. He was "out" for at least 2 hours (he was non-responsive off in his head, very confused if we tried to talk to him).

When he came out of it (about 2.5 hrs after the injection), his eyes were just oozing with tears of beauty for at least an hour. Both me and him were very surprised he got a ++++. He could not stop crying, and he said he didn't possibly think you could get that far from potent psychedelics (his first +4, he has done countless psychedelics and never gotten near as close). It was amazing for me to watch (I had IV'ed 25mg too), and I knew he had gotten a full +4. After he woke up he said it still felt like 4.5g of mushrooms for a few hours more after that. It was the best day of his life.
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Thought that story would be interesting.
 
^ stories like that make me tear up. seriously, thanks for sharing. it's great to hear that people got alot out of a session.

it seems like the DMT's are quite prone to producing ++++ experiences, even at low doses. my one & only was with 3.5 grams of mushrooms, & MGS often raves about 5-meo-dmt producing a consistent ++++...

interesting.
 
Yes thanks psilocybonaut, VERY fascinating report! The controllability of the hallucinations from 4-AcO-DMT are a huge part of what makes it special to me. It's too bad I'm afraid of needles as your report makes me wonder if I'm missing out on the full depth of the drug by taking it orally.
 
psilocybonaut said:
My friend got to a +4 from 25mg intravenously. Right after injection, he vomited into a bucket (he vomits from almost all hallucinogens except LSD). He laid on my bed and became unresponsive (if he talked he didn't know where he was, just asking questions like "what the fuck"). He said was pushed/led through an Aztec jungle for a while with animals (he said there were a few brief moments of fear during this time), and then saw a huge holy fractal beautiful Aztec-like geometric temple. He was led inside, and he said there were yellow "bird-people" (people with wings but their faces were bird like) and some sort of energy that looked like fire almost, that was dancing around him as he manipulated it, and extremely strange music (like Shpongle but he could control it), and he was able to completely manipulate all of the hallucinations and music. It was like they were serving him. He said he was elevated to the level of Christ or Buddha. He was "out" for at least 2 hours (he was non-responsive off in his head, very confused if we tried to talk to him).

When he came out of it (about 2.5 hrs after the injection), his eyes were just oozing with tears of beauty for at least an hour. Both me and him were very surprised he got a ++++. He could not stop crying, and he said he didn't possibly think you could get that far from potent psychedelics (his first +4, he has done countless psychedelics and never gotten near as close). It was amazing for me to watch (I had IV'ed 25mg too), and I knew he had gotten a full +4. After he woke up he said it still felt like 4.5g of mushrooms for a few hours more after that. It was the best day of his life.
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I remember you saying IV 4-AcO-DMT was DMT-like but this sounds like a fully immersing DMT visionary experience that lasts two hours! I'm planning on trying this in about a week or so, but was thinking more like 10mg on top of aMT or K. I imagine at 10mg the duration would be quite a bit shorter than at 25. I might just IV psilocin instead and hope for a significantly shorter duration.

It looks like your friend's experience corroborates the unexpectedly lengthy IV experience you reported about earlier. So he was "out" for 2 hours and was still tripping hard for "hours" after that? I assume that means a total duration of at least 4 hours, which is around how long 25mgs orally would last; that's far less of a difference between oral and IV duration than with most anything else e.g. smoked DPT freebase (<1hr) vs insufflation (~3hrs) vs "DPT huasca" (>3.5hrs), though 25mg IV is an immense fucking dose. Do you and your friend use MAOIs or anything else that could lengthen your trips?
 
I remember you saying IV 4-AcO-DMT was DMT-like but this sounds like a fully immersing DMT visionary experience that lasts two hours! I'm planning on trying this in about a week or so, but was thinking more like 10mg on top of aMT or K. I imagine at 10mg the duration would be quite a bit shorter than at 25. I might just IV psilocin instead and hope for a significantly shorter duration.

It looks like your friend's experience corroborates the unexpectedly lengthy IV experience you reported about earlier. So he was "out" for 2 hours and was still tripping hard for "hours" after that? I assume that means a total duration of at least 4 hours, which is around how long 25mgs orally would last; that's far less of a difference between oral and IV duration than with most anything else e.g. smoked DPT freebase (<1hr) vs insufflation (~3hrs) vs "DPT huasca" (>3.5hrs), though 25mg IV is an immense fucking dose. Do you and your friend use MAOIs or anything else that could lengthen your trips?
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For me, 25mg IV gives me a 20 minute or so intense DMT-like rush, followed by a few hours of tripping.

For my friend who is mentioned above, I guess it had different effects (it WAS a fully immersive 2 hour ++++ DMT-like experience). It was also his first time IV'ing 4-ACO-DMT or any tryptamine. He was caught completely off guard, he said. I think it affects different people differently.

I've IV'ed up to 30mg before and not gotten anywhere near where my friend did. I get the 30 min. pleasurable rush, followed by a nice trip. And my other friend who's done 25mg a few times gets similar effects as me.

My friend got so lucky, and I am so jealous....
 
I remember you saying IV 4-AcO-DMT was DMT-like but this sounds like a fully immersing DMT visionary experience that lasts two hours! I'm planning on trying this in about a week or so, but was thinking more like 10mg on top of aMT or K. I imagine at 10mg the duration would be quite a bit shorter than at 25. I might just IV psilocin instead and hope for a significantly shorter duration.

It looks like your friend's experience corroborates the unexpectedly lengthy IV experience you reported about earlier. So he was "out" for 2 hours and was still tripping hard for "hours" after that? I assume that means a total duration of at least 4 hours, which is around how long 25mgs orally would last; that's far less of a difference between oral and IV duration than with most anything else e.g. smoked DPT freebase (<1hr) vs insufflation (~3hrs) vs "DPT huasca" (>3.5hrs), though 25mg IV is an immense fucking dose. Do you and your friend use MAOIs or anything else that could lengthen your trips?
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For me, 25mg IV gives me a 20 minute or so intense DMT-like rush, followed by a few hours of tripping.

For my friend who is mentioned above, I guess it had different effects (it WAS a fully immersive 2 hour DMT-like experience). It was also his first time IV'ing 4-ACO-DMT or any tryptamine. He was caught completely off guard, he said. I think it affects different people differently.

I've IV'ed up to 30mg before and not gotten anywhere near where my friend did. I get the 30 min. pleasurable rush, followed by a nice trip. And my other friend who's done 25mg a few times gets similar effects as me, it is still very intense and pleasurable though (it really is worth it, and 25mg IV seems to be perfect for me and my other friend. I know it's a high dose, but there are NO negative side effects that I notice). I would recommend starting with at least 15mg IV if you try it. It only takes a SMALL amount of heat to dissolve in water, so do not boil it.

My friend got so lucky, and I am so jealous.... And no, we don't use MAOIs. I would say my friend's total duration was more like 6 hours total (he said he felt like he ate an eighth for a few hours after he "came to").

I don't find IV duration to be much shorter than oral, but it is a completely different experience, almost like a different drug. Although, I thoroughly enjoy both routes.

Anyone have any suggestions for avoiding the cross-tolerance with LSD, as mentioned in the post before I described my buddy's ++++? Would really be appreciated.
 
^Psilocybonaut

Do you notice any major differences between oral and IV with 4-aco-dmt with the build up to the peak and the peak?

I have been curious about this and the way 4-aco-dmt metabolizes in the body.
 
luckytaak said:
^Psilocybonaut

Do you notice any major differences between oral and IV with 4-aco-dmt with the build up to the peak and the peak?

I have been curious about this and the way 4-aco-dmt metabolizes in the body.
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Yes, there is a major difference.

Orally, it is more like a mushroom experience, lasting around 7 hours, and it feels a lot like psilocin but much more relaxing. There are many other oral reports of it by other people in this thread. Peak lasts 2-3 hrs. This is referring to a 25 milligram oral dose.

Intravenously, it hits you in like 5 seconds and you get an extremely euphoric DMT-like rush that lasts like 10-20 min. It's not like a breakthrough for me, but i'd say it's on par with a near-breakthrough. After those great 20 minutes, you are still "sort of" peaking for about a half hour to an hour. After this, you trip for a good few hours longer (I don't keep exact time when I trip, I'm sure the trip is shorter than oral, but not noticeably by THAT much, maybe 2 hours cut off). The trip is much different than oral administration, but I like them both. This is referring to a ~25mg IV shot...no more, no less. That's what I experience.

Both routes of administration with this compound have their right time and place. This compound is so great, almost magical....hehe. I never thought it would be like this until I received my free 25mg sample. After this, I started ordering it in grams.

I can't find it anymore, however. No one seems to be carrying it. I would pay a lot of money to buy more, but I can't find a legit vendor that sells it anymore...

I hope this compound is not lost....I hope it stays available and goes into peoples' bodies for many years to come (unlikely but nice to think about)

By the way, I have the fumarate salt. The first time I got it, it was completely white. The second time, it is more tan colored. Both batches seem to be just as good and high quality (high enough quality for IV). It seems very stable as well. I had some for a year at room temperature and it was just as potent when I finished it.
 
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Psilocybonaut Have you compared DMT to 4-aco-dmt when you have IV ed it?

I had a couple of trips with 4-aco-dmt that felt just like DMT but slowed down. I smoked a sub breakthrough dose of DMT with one of them to compare and I could tell the difference side by side but they were similar and shared a lot of the same qualities.

Was wondering if you had a chance to compare the 2 and could give a description.

I agree 4-aco-dmt is some nice stuff for me it is warm and friendly for a tryptamine it has depth but it is not dark and spooky like shrooms.
 
++++

9 mg 4-AcO-DMT and 3 mg 4-HO-DMT administered intramuscularly contributed to a true peak experience. It was a spiritual and intellectual illumination so awe-inspiring that I feel compelled to somehow record it. This experience surpassed my one and only previous brush with cosmic consciousness (LSD + IV'd DMT). I'm still trying to put it into words! =D
 
squerll said:
Psilocybonaut Have you compared DMT to 4-aco-dmt when you have IV ed it?

I had a couple of trips with 4-aco-dmt that felt just like DMT but slowed down. I smoked a sub breakthrough dose of DMT with one of them to compare and I could tell the difference side by side but they were similar and shared a lot of the same qualities.

Was wondering if you had a chance to compare the 2 and could give a description.

I agree 4-aco-dmt is some nice stuff for me it is warm and friendly for a tryptamine it has depth but it is not dark and spooky like shrooms.
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Well I have DMT and have smoked it many times, but I have not put the 2 substances together physically side by side and done one after the other.

The IV rush from 4-ACO-DMT is the closest to the DMT feeling that I have ever gotten to (maybe equivalent to 25-30mg smoked for about 10-20 min for me). They are very, very similar. Oral 4-ACO-DMT has some VERY minor DMT-like qualities (more than 4-HO-DMT at least), but it is NOTHING like IV'ing it. Doesn't compare at all...IV'ing it is so different and so pleasurable. It's almost like a different drug.
9 mg 4-AcO-DMT and 3 mg 4-HO-DMT administered intramuscularly
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That doesn't seem like a very high dose at all to me, I am surprised that you reached a ++++ from that.
 
Dondante said:
9 mg 4-AcO-DMT and 3 mg 4-HO-DMT administered intramuscularly contributed to a true peak experience. It was a spiritual and intellectual illumination so awe-inspiring that I feel compelled to somehow record it. This experience surpassed my one and only previous brush with cosmic consciousness (LSD + IV'd DMT). I'm still trying to put it into words! =D
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Glad to hear it Dondante! It’s such a great feeling to know that--even after you’ve experienced so many different psychedelics and many others have dropped out of the scene jaded--you can find a spiritual vein in yourself whose richness surpasses any you’ve encountered before. I’m convinced that the magic of psychedelics can be maintained through novel approaches, honesty with yourself, moderation, and mental discipline.

My greatest experiences with both of these chemicals has come after their ostensible peaks in a sudden resurgence of effects where my head and limbs grow very heavy and I’m inundated by beautiful visions. How did it happen for you?

I know it’s difficult to communicate the phenomenology of a ++++, but you can start with a general chronology of events. Whether or not I submit a report, I find actively writing down experiences like these to be a cathartic and insightful process that helps to integrate the events of the trips in ways simple recall never could. Giving something like this structure may be contrived or even profane, but after the initial experience is over such contrivances are, for me, the clearest paths back to these realms--and I wouldn’t get anywhere if I didn’t start very simply. Make a basic outline, dwell on the thoughts and feelings of your experience, passively listen for words and phrases that bubble up through your most vivid memories, then adorn the skeleton of your trip report with what you’ve captured--trimming here and there--and the literary form of your experience will begin to take shape organically.
 
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