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The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT thread - New incarnation

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Just the potency, and maybe the stability. The Fumaric salt is less potent, because of the weight of the fumarate ion, which is heavier than the HCl ion. If I remember correctly Erowid states the differences in potency between both molecules.
 
This is one of my favorites. I find 15-20mg is a very smooth and enjoyable experience, while 30+ gets into much more deeply emotional and classically psychedelic territory.

I have a question about 4-AcO-DMT: Who first synthesized it? Is there a name I can attach to this chemical? Right now I have no idea where to send my "thank you" card to...
 
shulgin is GOD.... though i'm not sure if he was the one who origanally synthed it, it certainly wouldn't surprise me. and the fact remains.
 
^I'm not sure he was the first, but Nichols wrote this paper about its synthesis. It is my understanding that Shulgin ignored the AcO versions of all his 4 sub t compounds because he believed they would be metabolized into their ho counterparts immediately. While I don't doubt that this metabolic change does occur, the phenomenological differences between many AcO and ho tryptamines is evidence that it doesn't happen immediately. Also, the fact that IV 4-AcO-DMT hits users pretty much right away indicates that 4-AcO-DMT is not just a prodrug of psilocin but is active in its own right. It is likely that both the AcO's independent effects and the rate that it metabolizes into psilocin in different users (perhaps reflecting variable deacetylase enzyme concentrations in the gut and/or blood) is in large part responsible for the phenomenological differences, variability in onset time, and duration of effects that have been reported about in this thread.
 
psood0nym said:
It is likely that both the AcO's independent effects and the rate that it metabolizes into psilocin in different users (perhaps reflecting variable deacetylase enzyme concentrations in the gut and/or blood) is in large part responsible for the phenomenological differences, variability in onset time, and duration of effects that have been reported about in this thread.
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I have been wondering about the different effects I get 2 totally different effects from 4-aco-dmt.
Sometimes I get a DMT buzzing high and sometimes it gives me more of a mushroom high.
Seems like when I get off fast I get the DMT buzzing high and when it takes a little longer it sets in to more of the mushroom type high.
I really like the mushroom type high it gives me, the headspace is clear and it is so smooth, it gives me really nice lattice type visuals. The DMT buzz it gives me is more ungrounded with that buzzing sound and the visuals are different more mandala like.
 
^^ Yeah, I always get that DMT buzzing. it's led to some fantastic places. Actually, the one time I got the more mushroom-like high it became a +4, and I think it drew itself out more because I redosing twice while already into it.

I am always puzzled by the huge variance in effects with this one... for me and some others, it always begins in like 10 or 15 minutes, serious extremely fast. And the whole thing lasts 3 hours, tops. But then some people say it's very slow and takes 2 hours to come up and lasts for 5-6 hours or so.

4-AcO-DMT always reminds me far more of DMT than of mushrooms. In fact it's very similar to me but slower.
 
Heh, for me it kicks in within 15-20 minutes but I feel the affects 8 hours later, with maybe a 3 hour peak and a long trail off.

It does seem to be less predictable than I once believed.
 
I've only tried psilacetin once (and with MDMA) so I'm not a good one for an opinion...but mushrooms always varied for me...sometimes taking 1 1/2 h to peak...other times hitting fully within 45 minutes. I'm not really surprised that psilacetin varies in this regard.

I've also noted this with 4-Ho-DiPT...usually it hits fully within 45 mintues...but once I didn't peak until 2-3hr in.

Never with ethocin though...that one was always conistant (and hitting fast.)
 
It's pretty consistent with me even orally; 10-25 minutes to hit me and 4-5hrs before I'm down, with a +++ dose. I have notice some really striking differences in this thread though, with onset times (estimated from memory) varying from 10 minutes to over and hour and durations from 3 or or less hours to over 8 at similar doses.
Xorkoth said:
4-AcO-DMT always reminds me far more of DMT than of mushrooms. In fact it's very similar to me but slower.
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The slower, smoother, more euphoric oral DMT character of the compound really comes out when used with syrian rue, even more so than when intramuscularly injected (I have never used in IM while on an MAOI though.) I've only done it with syrian rue twice orally, and both times resulted in really heavy ecstatic experiences after insufflating more 4-AcO-DMT around the 2.5 hour point. Analogously, two of my three ego death experiences occurred after using slower onset/duration dehydrated and encapsulated mimosa extract and then drinking faster onset/duration liquid mimosa tea. Some people might have tolerance build up issues with this dosage technique but that wasn't in issue for me.

I think 4-AcO-DMT may be my first IV drug experience. I'm tossing around the idea of doing 4-AcO-DMT, DMT, or aMT (if I'm just feeling hedonistic) that way sometime over the holidays. It probably won't be DMT since IV DMT wouldn't be that different than smoking I don't imagine, though I certainly plan to do that too eventually. Oh what the hell am I saying, it's gonna be oral or IM aMT then IV 4-AcO; I feel silly.
 
that sounds good psood0nym.. i think i will be sampling oral aMT then oral 4-aco over the holidays sometime myself. I think Xorkoth posted once that this combo was very nice.

anyways, i've noticed 4-aco to come on in about 15-20 minutes every time i've tried it.
 
Pretty much everyone who has done it agrees that combo is incredible, so you'll probably have a great time. I've done it three times before, and the second time was probably the most important trip of my life (20mg aMT IM and 13mg 4-AcO-DMT IM.) Here's my brief, and obviously enamored, synopsis of my first experience with it (scroll down). Can't believe there's been a whole B&D aMT thread since then.

The IV report of 4-AcO-DMT describes it is as extremely euphoric. I'm pretty excited to see how it'll be on top of something like aMT! I think I'll practice IVing once with sterile saline to make sure I do it right later.
 
Just to chime in, for me 4-AcO-DMT hits quick and is over in about 3 hours. I also find it extremely close to DMT. Its very much like 'ayahuasca lite' in my opinion. There's little to no physical discomfort, no need to purge etc. The visuals seem to be a bit more 'digital' looking as well, with much sharper edges, similar to ayahuasca and not as 'rounded' as mushrooms.

The idea of an AMT combo also sounds like it would be great. I was thinking maybe 30mg AMT rectal and 15mg of 4-AcO-DMT orally would be a good dose. I don't know when I'll have the time to try it though.
 
Yeah, the AMT and 4-AcO-DMT combo gave me my third of 3 +4 experiences. It was extremely friendly... it was aqs if I was connected to the univerrsal consciousness and source of love, but also still in my ego. It was different than other strong tryptamine experiences. I basically gushed inspiration and love for a few hours and it set into motion some changes that I saw the effects of for months (and still today).
 
Boosting 4-AcO-DMT

Hi - long time lurker, first time poster.

Quick background: I took low dose SSRI's (first paxil, then lexapro) for 15 years. I discontinued all SSRI's about six months ago. Since then I have had several cactus trips, several mushroom trips, as well as several low dose 4-aco-dmt experiences. On both mushrooms and cactus (separately - I've never combined them), despite ingesting a substantially larger dose than what gave the other people i was with a strong +3 (sometimes bordering on +4) I've never managed more than a strong +2 experience, suggesting perhaps residual tolerance from SSRIs. More recently, 40mg of oral AMT produced only amphetemine effects, with virtually no psychedelic effects. 13mg of 2c-e similarly produced only unplesant stimulation.

The largest 4-aco-dmt dose I've taken was 15mg. I know this may sound hard to believe, but I found the effect at this does almost identical to what I get from 5mg (though longer lasting): a pleasant but mild +2. (I had taken 5mg three days before the 15mg, so i suppose there could perhaps be some tolerance.)

Tonight I will be trying for a breakthrough experience on 4-aco-dmt. I plan on taking 30mg orally. I know this is typically considered a high dose, but I'm concerned that given my tolerance it may not get me as far as I want, so I'm considering trying to boost with 5-10mg at around 80 minutes in if necessary. Searching the archived version of this thread, I found a few instances where this seemed to be effective. I'd be interested in hearing more from people who have done this, especially in regards to when they boosted, with how much, and what route (oral or insufflated).

Sorry for the lengthy post, and thanks for your help.
 
IV 4-AcO-DMT is extremely euphoric, and the first 20 minutes of it or so (the "rush") is almost exactly like DMT.

When I do it, i IV 25mg of the fumarate salt. This gets me to an extremely pleasurable +3. However, this same dose led my friend to a +4 where he was extremely disoriented for a few hours and his eyes were just oozing tears for hours after out of beauty.

I would recommend 15-20mg IV until you realize how your body reacts to it intravenously (it's different for different people I think). While being a high dose, I know you'll have a great time. Maybe you should go lower than 20 if you're already on AMT.
 
I finally tried this material again (first doesn't count, as we also took MDMA), and I was really impressed. We took 20mg on New Years night. Took about 20 minutes to hit, and I was +++ in an hour. My only complaint about the material was how 'lazy' and tired I felt...which is something I get with mushrooms as well. I missed the (mildly) stimulating effects I enjoy with the phenethylamines. With psilacetin, I just wanted to lay down and do nothing. I felt no motivation to change the music, get up to get water, or anything. It could have also been that I was just tired, as it was at the end of a long day...but I think it was related to the drug itself, as I experience the exact same thing with mushrooms.

Beyond the laziness/tiredness...I was extremely impressed with the mental and visual effects. It was CLASSIC psychedelic...and I was just impressed in every way.

All around friendly material, great on the body. Effects waned at about 4 hours, at which point we took some ketamine and we both had a ++++. But that is a different story.

This may even replace iprocin as my favorite synthetic tryptamine....I'll have to use iprocin again (it's been many years and I've kinda forgotten about it...other than I remember loving the stuff) to know for sure.
 
hey MGS, I get the same thing with 4-substituted Ts (the lazy man thing)-

I think it is some sort of histamine reaction, as it is accompanied in me with watering eyes, weird feeling in sinuses, etc. Very sedating, dreamy.

In fact, I remember my first mushroom experience (a good number of years ago), I sprawled out on the steps of a somewhat public building and exclaimed to passerbyers (this was pretty late at night) how wonderful the world was and that I had lost my shoes (I was barefoot at that point in the night).

A funny eye-opening night.

Have you got to try the 4-HO-DMT version yet?

peace,
S_S
 
No, but we are very excited to try psilocin and compare. Maybe next month when we go to California...if the moment is right. I'm sure we will bring it just in case.
 
I have some LSD that is quite weak. Maybe 65-70mcg/hit. 11.5 hits left me wanting to trip harder.

I was thinking about next trip, eating the 8.5 hits I have left, and then 2-4 hours later doing 4-ACO-DMT (IV or oral, probably IV). I think this would be fun, at around 17-20mg.

What do you guys think about this mix of 4-ACO-DMT and LSD? Do you think it would significantly increase my trip and possibly synergize very well with it?
 
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