The banning of drug paraphernalia - harm minimisation or maximisation?

laugh · Oct 30, 2012

no noses allowed haha. if he pieced his nose he'd have a shotty

Busty St Clare · Oct 30, 2012

Vaporizer porn....

Even the Mrs who doesn't smoke ooooh and ahhhhh at this.

spacejunk · Oct 30, 2012

Yep - vaporizers are the business.
Probably illegal to sell in most Australian jurisdictions though...Hmmm.

poledriver · Oct 30, 2012

spacejunk said:
You're narrowing the subject down to a single homemade smoking device.
What about "bongs" made out of aluminium cans and the like?
There are lots of possibilities people will resort to when they can't buy something purpose-made.
That's the point I am trying to make, anyway.
It's ok, I don't expect you to agree; but if you don't acknowledge that people are likely to take bigger risks if they can't buy drug paraphernalia, then I'm not sure you're being sincere.

So why has this come down to bongs? What do you think about smoking meth thru a glassie? Can people do that in a way that is more harm reductive? Better for meth smokers to use a glass pipe, or is it fine to use a light globe or heat it on tin foil or inject it or plug it or eat it? I dont know, what do you think? Same with heroin I guess.

spacejunk · Oct 30, 2012

There is speculation about the safety - or otherwise - of smoking off tin foil. I don't know what the answer is.
As for light bulbs, there is a street wisdom passed between users not to use "frosted" globes.
Again; true or not - there are obviously health implications that are not addressed by prohibtion's standard blanket-ban approach.
As for cannabis, i think busty has proven what I'm trying to say; banning paraphernalia (if that includes vaporizers) goes against the efforts to reduce harm associated with drug use.
Vapes are the way of the future and we should be encouraging them, not banning them IMO

poledriver · Oct 30, 2012

I agree on the vapes for harm reduction. But... I own one, and have tried it many times, solo and with friends, the hit and high is not the same as any bong. People wanna just get high sometimes? Vapes are a mellow, slow high... I can see alot of kids wouldn't dig that, maybe that's just my opinion tho.

I usually go back to the bong, sometimes in groups we get out the vape tho.

spacejunk · Oct 30, 2012

Is it a good (read: expensive) vape?
Mine kicks my arse, I feel stoned like I haven't since high school over a decade ago...!

poledriver · Oct 30, 2012

yeah, 300 buks from CA. Fan, timer, heat... bags, this and that...

Maybe its the tobacco hit im addicted to. fuck knows. I like getting stoned, but more and more recently since I dont buy weed much anymore I find i get too stoned off bongs and nearly need to lie down, so maybe I should use the vape more. and mellow the hell out.

spacejunk · Oct 30, 2012

Yeah, I find it a preferable stone - but I'm not a big smoker any more, so my opinion may not be that well informed...

Captain Brewster · Oct 30, 2012

I can vouch for vapes, there awesome. I get more in your couch stoned than joints from them.

I stopped smoking bongs awhile ago, started thinking i didn't have enough oxygen in my brain to handle it anymore.

drug_mentor · Oct 30, 2012

gimpan said:
Wow your post smacks of arogance, Im pretty sure I didnt say anything about plastic bottles or garden hose. My point is that anyone with an imagination and common sense will know that inhaling burning plastic will not be good for your health, and with that knowlege in mind most people will make a bong with the crucial parts that are exposed to heat will consist of materials that arnt likely to break down under heat.

I have smoked through many homemade bongs made by many people (including myself at a younger and dumber age,) and not many were made with much thought being put into how healthy they would be to use, most often it was the most readily available materials that could be used to make something to smoke out of the quickest. I really think that while it is obviously possible to make a homemade device that perhaps isn't so unhealthy to use, that the majority of homemade bongs will be made from plastic bottles and garden hoses and to think that there wont continue to be a large number of people that disregard the negative effects of doing so is a bit naive.

gimpan · Oct 30, 2012

My point is that making and using homemade bongs is no more dangerous than store bought ones, as long you use materials that are not going to breakdown before than plant matter.

Do you really think commercially made bongs and pipes have been rigorously tested and deemed safe to smoke drugs through? and im not talking about vapouisers.
Like someone else pointed out, when you are deliberately inhalling burning plant matter that may have insecticides and other shit that growers use to grow the strongest weed a moderatly warm bottle should be the least of your health concerns.

drug_mentor · Oct 30, 2012

^ But the point is that regardless of whether a few sensible people use materials that wont breakdown there is still going to be a large number of people using less than safe materials, and if a ban on bongs leads to decreased availability then it follows that more people will make homemade bongs, many of them using unsafe materials, and thus increasing the overall physical harm being done to the Australian cannabis smoking community.

I don't know how rigorously bongs on the shelf have been tested but it seems logical to me that they are made from materials that are generally considered safe for the purpose. They have done a number of studies comparing the damage caused by bongs to joints and pipes and stuff, surely if there were some sort of by products being produced in the smoke through commercial bongs then this information would of been released. When there are materials safe to smoke out of I don't see why a reputable bong manufacturer would skimp out on dangerous materials and potentially face epic law suits down the line.

gimpan · Oct 31, 2012

See im not so sure companies manufacturing bongs are going to adhere to heath and safety standards of this country.
Most bongs as you will know often use a loop hole that permits their sale in Australia as long as theyre sold as 'oil pourers' or what ever.

Adding to their danger also sees to be that most cone pieces seem to made of brass which is known to have health hazards when heated. I would like to think common sense should be the main thought when choosing a ROA, another issue is that when people buy bongs online or from a smoke shop they may assume they are a healthier option

laugh · Oct 31, 2012

Adding to their danger also sees to be that most cone pieces seem to made of brass which is known to have health hazards when heated.

i was waiting for this to surface...not to mention the stems are aluminium, no?

soapstone cones all the way baby!

puffpuffpass · Nov 2, 2012

I wasn't aware that the brass/aluminium stems were bad for you, always figured since they make bongs with em cant be too bad, beats the old hose anyway.

I was searching the net for home made recepies and here's a nice one that caught my eye:

Details below (NSFW as it is quite long, not hard to do though)

NSFW:

I read you can also use taller spirit bottles, but they end up tasting bad after a couple of days.

thestudent14 · Nov 2, 2012

^ Sure beats gatorade bottles with a hose and bluetac with aluminum foil.

Also, I agree with most on here that most people will make them out of whatever materials they have available opposed to taking the time to make one that is more harm free.

Sustanon · Nov 3, 2012

Im not really sure as to why the big fuss about bongs being banned and etc, should just pick up a very nice vape. So much better in terms of effectiveness and health. Comes in handy when u have some hash, dmt or even some crack

spacejunk · Nov 3, 2012

^ i guess the fuss is about the fact that the bans may be vague enough to include vapes in the legislation.
i haven't read the particular bills in question - each state is likely different - apart from my own state, which i believe may cover them (in law, if not in practice - yet). someone else might have a more enlightening view on this however; i'm not very legally minded.

if vaporisers are technically illegal, then i can see plenty of reasons to be disturbed by it. i guess i just meant it in a more general sense though. prohibition = more harm.

Sustanon · Nov 3, 2012

spacejunk said:
^ i guess the fuss is about the fact that the bans may be vague enough to include vapes in the legislation.
i haven't read the particular bills in question - each state is likely different - apart from my own state, which i believe may cover them (in law, if not in practice - yet). someone else might have a more enlightening view on this however; i'm not very legally minded.

if vaporisers are technically illegal, then i can see plenty of reasons to be disturbed by it. i guess i just meant it in a more general sense though. prohibition = more harm.

Hmm now that would really suck, have they included that already or their just planning to? I mean technically its a potpurri warmer and I'm fairly certain it has other uses apart from vaporizing. The thing that shits me is that bongs and other paraphernalia are not only just used for illicit substances but also for perfectly legal ones. What is the idea behind the banning all for these things anyway? Its not going to keep people from smoking weed.

The banning of drug paraphernalia - harm minimisation or maximisation?

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