The banning of drug paraphernalia - harm minimisation or maximisation?

[spacejunk]

i have been thinking recently about the banning of "bongs"/water pipes in many (if not all?) states and territories across australia in the last couple of years.
it followed the banning of (what i call) hash oil pipes - more commonly known in aus as "crack" pipes, glassies etc.

how has this affected your drug taking, it's route of administration and the risks thereof?

have you decided that fatherly ol' premier [insert name] is actually right, and given away your sinful unwholesome proclivities, or have you in fact escalated the risks associated with your drug use?

in regard to glass pipes - do people smoke off of tinfoil now? or heat up glass that objects weren't designed for that purpose? or continue using a "crackie" with - literally - a crack in it, because you can't easily source another, safer one?

has the ban of glass pipes led you to more physically harmful practices- such as insufflating (damaging your sinus and mucous membranes, often using rolled up money which is extremely unhygienic), injecting, etc - when you didn't previously?
syringes, are of course legally available (for the sake of HR) which i think is a very important and positive thing.

have you (or someone you know) suffered an injury from attempting to vaporise drugs through a glass instrument not designed for the application of heat?

are people smoking through aluminium "can bongs" or other makeshift smoking implements of dubious safety?

are stoners who previously smoked a bong or two now rolling joints which
a) use up more of the substance - therefore arguably increasing the demand for cannabis and having a positive effect on the market and costing the user more or
b) rolling joints mixed with tobacco which you didn't previously smoke, increasing the amount of australians that smoke tobacco?

are people smoking or vaping through plastic tubes which end up heating, possibly melting and emitting fumes which are then inhaled? or using rubber hose as a bong stem when a variety of purpose-built bits and pieces - made from appropriate materials - used to be cheaply and easily available across australia?
did you switch to bucket bongs after you smashed your glass bong in stoned reverie (or similar scenario?) and were unable to replace it?

or do you now just make your own smoking gear?

have these regulations led you from your previous drug of choice - and the experience of selecting and owning a classy piece of smoking gear, and feeling less deviant about the whole thing - to using some other drug entirely?

i'm curious as to what the actual health and social impact of making drug paraphernalia - designed specifically for that purpose - is having on people in australia and the way they consume drugs. positive or negative.

there are so many potential scenarios that run through my mind - some of which listed above - and many of these run in direct opposition to any notion of minimising harm for drug users; the stated goal of this site - and you would hope governments too...in a perfect world, perhaps.

i know that as a young teenager - who couldn't find too many stores that would sell me a pipe or a bong - i made some stupidly crude and risky things to smoke through that became a slightly embarrassing/amusing thing of the past when i was old enough to confidently walk into a head shop and buy whatever i wanted.
perhaps this says more about the fact that i was still a kid - lacking in foresight and sense - who shouldn't have been getting
high so young...?

or is it just our nature to want to get off on our drug of choice, no matter what hurdles The Man throws up in front of us for the sake of a good headline.
what do you guys think? has the banning of drug paraphernalia increased the harms of drug use, or reduced them?*

also, let's keep this away from mentioning specific sources or methods for obtaining contraband implements; i'd just like to know if people have any horror stories, sobriety success stories (?) or opinions on this.

*keeping in mind that a variety of stupid "oil pourers" and so fourth (and the bullshit sales techniques that accompany them - another shitty outcome of this regulation) are still in many stores.

 

[poledriver]

while IDUs are the drug users most at risk of drug related harm, and clean needles should absolutely be available to anyone that wants them, i think there is a double standard (of sorts) in not allowing people to buy things used to smoke cannabis. or meth/hash oil/whatever you'd put in a glass pipe (i hate vaping DMT in those things).
i'm not sure what the legality of (cannabis) vaporisers are...but this is obviously (to me) the safest way to have a toke of weed.

i just started a thread on this topic, so it may be worth continuing discussion there

I'm pretty sure the new laws would include vaporisers from what it says-

Independent MP Ann Bressington introduced a Bill in May this year to ban drug paraphernalia including a "smokeless" cannabis pipe and a bong "masquerading as a water pourer", after it was discovered they had slipped through the net of earlier legislation.

She said a loophole meant that people could buy the items, meant to be made illegal under laws she introduced in 2007.

Parliament this week has passed the Summary Offences (Drug Paraphernalia) Amendment Bill to close the loophole.

Attorney-General John Rau said it would mean "any innovative and new items that come on to the market, which are clearly designed to be used for purposes such as smoking cannabis or smoking methamphetamine crystals" could be identified and banned by regulation.

There would be a maximum penalty of $50,000 for a company and $10,000 or two years' jail for a person who breached the laws.

from the article i posted in the cannabis discussion thread -
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...ion-Thread?p=10990754&viewfull=1#post10990754

 

[Captain Brewster]

I've been a daily weed head for years now, and I smoked bongs for the majority of my choofing career.
But two years ago I went on to joints, in hope that my health would pick up, and around four months ago went on to a box vaporite.

So I haven't had trouble as yet to getting a device to use my green. But I suppose that will change if PD is right about vapes being illegal now, and my vape breaks down.

Some of the bongs I used out of desperation as a youngster were horrible. It wasent uncommon to see dark-black burnt plastic around where the stem went. And using foil as a cone.
I have a feeling this will happen a lot more now, which I think isn't going to help anyone.

I didn't start smoking because I had a bong, I started because I had weed, then I would look for a device to use my weed with.

 

[poledriver]

Yeah same.

I can't really see how these laws work, because when i do a google for any of the drug paraphernalia mentioned in SJ's OP I can find all of it from online shops here in Aus. From meth pipes to bongs to vapes and loads more things.

I haven't checked physical shops (like head shops and tobacconists for example) that used to sell these kinds of things in ages, but I'm guessing if one tried hard enough that they would probably find what they are looking for still. Maybe things will change, but as far as I can see not much has.

 

[laugh]

'they'd prefer us smoke out of plastic bottles and garden hoses. That's reeeeeel healthy.' - Captain Brewster

it's ridiculous. i fail to see how this will in any way, shape, or form reduce use or health related risks, if any thing it is creating more health risks!

bamboo plants all over australia are now under risk of being chopped, garden hose theft and trespassing will increase, people will be inhaling unhealthy plastic bottle, and garden hose fumes, aluminium fumes, etc. etc.

the only 'benefit' will be authorities have the capability to issue more fines and infringements for people purchasing or stores stocking smoking implements like bongs and glass pipes. it will be extremely hit and miss with it's policing, for instance sweet puff ice/oil pipes have been banned in NSW for some years now, however it is piss easy to purchase one. governments and authorities cant police the laws and legislation they already have in place yet they introduce more...go figure? berry o'ferrell needs to be let loose in a nsw national park with a cross-hairs on the front of his suit and a shooters target on the back...

all the stuff is easily available online or at a surprisingly large amount of head-shops and/or tobacconists.

where is the logic? i think the change is a + 1 for maximisation of health risks...

 

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

I've been lucky enough to only ever use a 'MacGuyver' bong when visiting friends. I always have a nice glass/pyrex/acrylic piece on hand at home. I have noticed the huge difference in pulling through a blackened drink bottle with a hose in it and just know it would do a fair bit of damage over time.

I'm not looking forward to having to get a new piece if/when I break my current one. And i won't jimmy up a temp one.

The only 'benefit' of closing the oil pourer loophole is the amount of extra fines the government can hand out. More money in their coffers. As always it's never about health and harm minimization.

Maybe I'll whip out the glass tools and start making pieces

 

[footscrazy]

Good thread Space.

To me, it makes no sense, and as many have brought up, goes against HR. To me it seems like a measure to appease the masses and I think that this is probably its main purpose. I don't think anyone who puts a modicum of thought into this would believe it actually helps reduce drug use, but it looks good to the general public, who refuse to put anymore thought into the issue further than 'drugs are bad', and that buys political support. Ultimately I think most of the harmful laws around drugs are simply to garner support in this way, especially ones like this which are 'quick fixes' - they give the appearance of being tough on drugs but involve the most minimal of efforts.

I thought what you said regarding the availability of needles but not pipes etc was really interesting Spacejunk. It is a ridiculous double standard, even though I doubt many of us still believe there's any concession to rationality or logic in the law makers of today. I suppose the threat of HIV of hep c is enough to scare people into seeing needles as the lesser of two evils, especially considering that these diseases can then be passed on to 'innocent' (in other words, non drug using) people. Because I think that sadly, for many people, harm reduction for drug users is a joke, because drug users 'choose' to use drugs, and thus choose the harms, so if they want their harms reduced, they should just stop using.

As far as personal experience goes, I don't smoke weed but crack pipes were illegal most of the time I puffed and I never had too much trouble coming across them. Not to mention glass blowing seems to be the occupation of choice for many iceheads I smoked on foil or in light bulbs occasionally but they're both a poor substitute, and a connoisseur will always have their crackie - and where there's a demand, there'll be a supply.

 

[Foreigner]

Paraphernalia laws are based on knee-jerk emotional reactions instead of scientific research, much like the rest of the failed war on drugs. The research shows that allowing paraphernalia and needle/pipe exchanges is of tangible benefit to society from the HR side.

Australia is demonstrating that it would rather follow suit with the United States of Arrogance and pass laws based on irrational hatred than look at the facts and form sane social policy.

 

[opi8]

It would be great if someone who's respected around here, like Tronica, did a study on this kind of thing.

 

[drug_mentor]

I have to say I have never had any problem obtaining meth pipes in the years they have been banned... As for the bongs thing, I also managed to obtain a bong after they banned them, most of my friends still have their old bongs from before the ban and those who didn't have generally went out and purchased these 'oil pourers'. I really don't think these laws accomplish jack shit other than the Government raising some extra revenue by fining the odd business they catch in violation of these laws. I do seem to recall reading recently though that they were going to crack down on 'oil pourers' and maybe obtaining a bong will become difficult in future. I know for me if I broke my bong and couldn't replace it then I would just start smoking a lot more dry pipes and spliffs, however I do have lots of mates that I am certain would opt for home made bongs as opposed to non water filtered options.

 

[thestudent14]

Yeah it's really no made impact to me or my immediate friend group as most of us who smoke already have a bong.

A few of my younger friends who are just turning 18 though have said that they have friends who now regularly have to make their own with the gatorade bottle and hose. But ultimately I think this has made little difference or help, having said that I could see that in even 5 years time far less weed smokers will be hitting the bong as hard. I think more people will actually stick to Joints. I don't see the overall consumption of Cannabis going down, going up if anything as people tend to get through more when they keep sharing J's opposed to ripping too many cones and needing to hit the sack.

I think it would be far too soon to see any difference in a study. Most people who smoke at the moment already had a bong when this law came in and the ones who didn't had friends who do who they smoke with. But in 5-10 years time as the next gen of pot smokers turn 15-16 who don't have older siblings with a bong. Are likely to be having J's with friends opposed to cones as I imagine alot wouldn't feel comfortable going into an adult shop to buy an "oil pourer" and they may not have the know how of how to make one. It's not like it's difficult at all, but I think most people would like to see it be done once first.

I guess my conclusion is this, I don't see it making any immediate impact what so ever. In the long term I see the overall consumption of Cannabis increase, I see an increase of home made bongs from young adults (if the fuzz ever stamp down on oil pourers in a more vague term that they can use even if small changes are made), I do however see a decrease of bong use in teenagers. Most won't have one or know how to make one, and whislt I'm sure they'll still be readily available on the black market like crack pipes are now, most teenagers I don't see spending the extra cash on a bong when they can continue smoking Joints without going to the hassle of getting a bong. So I guess this law will make our young adults exposed more to shitty bongs and teens may have a reduction in bong use. Sounds like a win/lose scenario from a HR perspective if you ask me. Or I could be wrong... having bongs illegal may just make their sales skyrocket up like every drug in history 8)

 

[Busty St Clare]

Bongs aren't exactly a complex construction. It is pure laziness that people resort to using garden hoses and plastic bottles. If you were really concerned about the health effects it doesn't take much to source a metal stem, or a heat resistant cone piece. I would argue that bongs are not really all that more healthier for you. Sure they may cool down your smoke and do collect plenty of scum in the chamber but the increased negative pressure from pulling harder means alot more smoke drives deeper into the lungs. I'm sure plenty of chronic smokers here have pulled a lung out from too many bongs. Filters on a spliff would be equally as effective.

 

[Standup]

I dont know if there's some loophole in WA they are gonna close up or something, but since the banning of bongs a year ago, identical to the eye tobacco/legal herbal mixture water pipes are now sold behind the counter. Vapes and pipes have stayed on sale the entire time too. You just agree to not use it unlawfully upon purchase.

When bongs initially got banned I went to glass tobacco pipes and discovered i hate bongs anyway so it ended up being good for my lungs. Among friends there were alot more shitty macgyver style setups that definitely werent helping theirs. Having crack pipes easily available might be better health wise for people already set in smoking it, but i think that those being hard to find keeps people who might want to give it a shot away from it which is probably for the best, but im pretty biased against crack.

 

[mister]

My mate used to make his own glass bongs very easily. Just buy a drill bit for drilling glass and drill a hole in just about any bottle, put a rubber grommet in hole and push a metal stem through. With a little ingenuity it's fairy easy to make a cone piece to fit the stem. You can either wash it out and reuse or use another bottle. Its fairy camoflaged as well depending on the bottle you choose.

 

[cassandragemini]

Maybe 'spots' will become more popular like they are in nz however I think a big reason why they're so popular back home is because people have far less disposable income in nz and try to make their weed go further by spotting it. Hash oil is also popular in nz, I haven't seen in my 7 years of living in aus. Not that many people smoke joints in nz either, it's usually either spots, lungs, water buckys or home made bongs. Nz laws seem to be a little more reasonable when it comes to paraphernalia, we had a chain of stores that had all sorts of paraphernalia on one wall and weapons like cross bows and nun chucks on the other, it was ridiculous.

"I'll take a crack pipe and the samurai sword please"

 

[laugh]

Hot knives?

 

[cassandragemini]

Yeah I wasn't sure what you guys called it here. Its a super economical way to smoke bud and it gets you crazy high. Its also a good way to burn yourself, a friend of mine has a scar on his upper lip from doing spots without a tooter, it's entertaining hearing him explain to people how he got it.

 

[spacejunk]

I think one of my biggest problems with the whole thing - besides the obvious reactionary excuses, flawed logic, etc etc etc is that rather than a bit of nudge-nudge wink-wink info being passed from head shop folks to their customers, there is - whenever anyone is daring/deceptive enough to openly sell a bong or whatever - inevitable bullshitting in these stores now.
I don't venture into head shops much these days, but I had a frustrating experience recently where the staff in a shop defensively refused to answer any questions about a product they were selling.
It may be a little off-topic from my OP, but I saw a gram of powder in this store and politely (as if I had some intention of buying it) asked some questions about it.
"do you know what it is?"
"no. It's legal. It's herbal"
"uh, ok. So....whats an active dose? I mean, how much do you take?"
"you just fucken take it" (getting aggressive)
"so you have no idea how many mg you take in one go?"
"no"

I realise this sort of thing has been going on for ages with "herbal incense" etc
But it's worth stressing that I dont look like a cop in any way, and this shit was obviously some packaged research chemical. I find it disturbing that nowadays, whatever you're buying from one of these shops is likely to be sold with a bullsjit cover story - deliberately misleading information (if you even get any information out of them at all).
Same goes for smoking implements (or out-of-place things that resemble them).
It puts the onus totally on the end user.
While all drug use is ultimately our individual choice, the "you're on your own" nature of it is scary and depressing.
The solidarity that supposedly used to exist between members of the drug using community (I'm speaking specifically of old fashioned kinds of head shops I suppose) seems to have dissolved into a short-term money making making operation for the creeps that sell this crap.

The one I am referring to is a chain store - and every time I've gone to buy something there, I've been too bothered by the attitude of the staff to bother, and i end up just walking out.

the head shops in my city 5 or 10 years ago were characterised much more for being a) friendly b) respectful and c) interested in promoting safety.
it's like the attitude of "so long as it gets you fucked up, it's all good" has projected into this industry - turning it into an industry rather than a few tucked-away specialist stores that straight people could easily neglect to even notice.


The legislation banning drug paraphernalia encourages this obfuscation, but it ultimately puts naive people at risk while they make money out of it.
Arguably, too, it is the blatant marketing tactics and positioning of these kinds of stores that lead to the knee-jerk bans in the first place.
Chicken or egg scenario I guess....but I just hate seeing people sell drug related stuff in an apparently legit store with not even a vague attempt at providing safety advice....simply cashing in while they can with no regard for the consequences.

Self interest on the part of the politicians (what's new?) and big companies (ditto) while the smaller stores (where I live, at least) were able to operate quietly for years.

So we continue to be treated like children by government who overhype the dangers of "bad drugs" while people still get away with selling random powders with no dosage advice or info at all to help people stay safe.

A fucked situation, and a crazy world.

 

[gimpan]

Wonder or blunder? sorry, but seriously it really doesnt matter to me if pipe, cone pieces and the like are banned, I dont think theres going to any major issues smoking aweed through a homemade bong (as long as your burning nothing but plant matter).

Needles on the other hand is whole different kettle of tea, as of course leads to more needle sharing.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I don't know how you smoke man but if you smoke a lot and/or are having a sesh with some mates then it doesn't take long for the cone and stempiece to be piping hot. Smoke is hot enough as it is to probably cause some damage through homemade pieces without even accounting for the fact that more bongs tend to get packed and smoked before the apparatus cools down. If you really think that isn't causing people to inhale things they wouldn't through a glass bong, things that are probably quite harmful, then I honestly think you are kidding yourself. How do you know if all you are burning is plant matter when the inside of a garden hose isn't visible as you punch a cone? The way I have seen hoses and plastic bottles distort through being used frequently as a bong tells me all I need to know about whether it is safe or not... I'm not even saying I am a saint because I have definately smoked through homemade pieces in the last year because that is what was there, but theres a difference between being an impulsive idiot who disregards HR and being in complete denial about whether said activity is likely to cause you harm.