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The Alcohol thread...

footscrazy said:
^ It seems to be the one drug where some people get almost pissed off if you refuse a drink, like it's offensive to them that you're not drinking.

Thanks Christ and pisspotnrock, it's def a good achievement for me! Good work cutting down too, pisspotnrock.
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some people will take it as an insult if they offer to buy you a drink and you refuse, just sayin.
 
footscrazy said:
^ That's interesting that you like the combo of suboxone and booze, naltrexone really takes the fun out of drinking, but naloxone probably has a short enough half life that it doesn't affect it much. Have you ever tried drinking soon after your dose?
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No i've only drank on it a few times and like 6-8 hours after dosing the subxone.....To me it had no effect besides making the piss stronger....and im not injecting im taking it under the tongue.The new film strips are pretty decent
 
when i'm using opiates (ie constantly for the last 6+ years) i can't stomach alcohol one bit.

last time i earnestly tried to enjoy a drink, at my girlfriend-of-the-time's mother's 50th birthday - very expensive, free alcohol everywhere - i drank 4 or 5 beers and just felt headachy, nauseous and bored.

since then i've decided once and for all that it's not for me.
it has been a really positive thing to completely give up something that was bad for me (ie i wasn't a sad or angry drunk, but always a wild, crazy drunk) and that cost too much money, led to too many wasted days-after. too much potential in my drinking of trouble, injury or embarrassment.

there IS a huge social pressure to drink in our culture - i too hate people making a big deal out of me being a non-drinker (yeah - they can be genuinely affronted!) but all my friends know that i just don't drink. i'm in bands that play a lot of gigs, and i give the rider to my friends.
i haven't even had a social drink in over a year and a half - not one. i don't dig it, never get that nice euphoric feeling that i used to get after a couple of drinks. just groggy and slightly poisoned feeling.

i think my dad is the only person that continually offers me alcohol - i think it disappoints him that i don't touch the only psychoactive drug he consumes.

i really think this is an opiate effect that kills the kick of booze, not the naloxone in suboxone. i'm not on buprenorphine.

william burroughs wrote about how a junkie can't get "lush kicks", and one of the best ways to tell that you've kicked a habit is that you get pleasurable effects from alcohol again.
even before i was a habitual opiate user (when i just used a couple of times a week) i started losing the pleasurable feelng effects of alcohol. when i stopped taking opiates recreationally for a year or so, i started enjoying booze again.

i feel much more in control than i did as a drinker.
i don't spend gigs going from bar, to toilet and back to the bar (repeat repeat etc) and miss the band i went to see.
i don't get smashed and wake up regretting dumb things i did or said, or having spent all my money for the fortnight in a single night out. i don't spend my weekends moaning and feeling like i'm dying.
i don't wake up wondering what i did last night and all that stuff.
i don't need booze to go out, dance, have a good time or be sociable - i think there are better social lubricants, and i'm lucky enough to have learned to be the life of the party without booze.

in the sense that i never really liked alcohol that much, i'm glad it doesn't give me the kicks it used to. i have no reason to drink it anymore, and in that way i'm thankful for that opiate side effect.
i don't really feel great about my habit, but it's a bit like if i could find a drug that had the side-effect of making me hate junk food or something - it's not really something to be proud of, but i'm actually thankful that it cuts something else out of my life that for me was more problematic and unhealthy.
each to their own though, you dig?
 
For a solid 4~5 years I had always gone out and consumed large amounts of alcohol, if I was out socially I was drunk. I was always happy to go out on the weekend and get shit faced and do some drunken stumbles on the d'floor, in fact its what I looked forward to and was excited in anticipation. From 18-20 it was straight boozing 2-3 times a week 20-22 it was once or twice a week. Through out that time I dabbled in other drugs MD being the stand out until they went south. Over the last few weeks booze has lost its magic with me and now at 23 I don't find pleasure in it any more. It seems the MD resurgence has come at a good time I hope a trickle of it makes its way to my hands.

Moderation is the key... from now on :\
 
spacejunk - your post has me thinking.

I've heard that alcohol use releases endorphins (endogenous opiods). If that's the case, it seems to follow that using opiates regularly would raise your tolerance to opiods in general, and thus also raise your tolerance to the endorphins alcohol use releases, and therefore, reduce any pleasurable effects of alcohol (if endorphins are required to get 'high' of alcohol).

I've been thinking about this the past few days and wondering if it ties into something I've noticed personally. When I was a daily codeine user, I utilised ultra low dose naltrexone really effectively to lower my opiate tolerance, so I got beautifully high on 400mg codeine daily for 6 months. During this same time, I was also drinking heavily, and really struggling to cut down my alcohol use.

I greatly cut down my codeine use a month or so ago and as the idea was to not use opiates again, I stopped my ultra low dose naltrexone doses, as I thought if I wasn't using opies, who needs a low tolly ;). I've used opiates several times since then (and noticed when not using my uld naltrexone I get dimished effects even with only weekly use), but I've also found with this raised opie tolerance it's a lot easier to keep my drinking under control. I wonder if this is coincidence or whether it ties in - that to enjoy alchy, you need a low opiate tolerance?

I'd be really interested to learn more about this. Since naltrexone (an opiate antagonist) helps so much with alchy cravings, it really seems to fit. Any more info on the way alchohol affects endorphins - whether the alcohol 'high' relies on them, or any other info anyone has would be greatly appreciated :)
 
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^ That's a really interesting theory, footscrazy. I remember a couple of years ago there was interesting thread on alcohol and endorphins and possible congenital factors in alcoholism over in OD.

Just my own hypothesizing, but I imagine that endorphins do play a fair role in alcoholism; whether they are just as important in non-dependent drinkers I am not so sure about. I've only spoken to a couple of people on naltrexone for alcohol, and they all said that it definitely took the fulfillment and enjoyment out of drinking. I might look some more into this, my memory doesn't go so far back but I seem to remember researchers had narrowed down certain genes or target zones in the brain that were common in alcoholics.
 
I'd really love to see some studies on it. I've been prescribed naltrexone for drinking which definitely worked very well for me in reducing cravings, and the couple of other people I've known on it for alcohol have said the same. As for the pleasure for me while I was on naltrexone, it's hard to say. I don't feel like I've got a noticeable 'high' or a pleasant intoxication from alcohol for a long time, I just feel a compulsion to drink. (As an aside - what is that word that means when you can 'consciously' feel a drugs effect - I've been trying to think of it for years now...!)

The other thing is, most heavy opiate users I've known haven't been big drinkers. I used to think it that certain drugs just 'went together' - like weed/opies and alchohol/meth. But maybe there's something more to it.
 
footscrazy said:
(As an aside - what is that word that means when you can 'consciously' feel a drugs effect - I've been trying to think of it for years now...!)
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Damn it, right when I need to use the word I can't think of it!

I'll see what studies I can find and post them in here sometime tonight or tomorrow. It is definitely an interesting topic.
 
^ Ahhhhhhh hahaha, I have been hoping this word comes to mind for about 3 years now. But it never has. I thought you were going to solve my prob then! ;)
 
this is an interesting topic - particularly as you and i have both come to similar realisations through very different paths, footscrazy.
i'm trying to just do a google search for articles or forum/blog posts on the topic, but it's hard to get the right search terms. a lot of irrelevant stuff.
i might have a look through some academic databases at work tomorrow if i get the chance.

but yeah, it's always spun me out when i see or hear of junkies drinking booze, because long i've taken it for granted that to the two are like oil and water; they just don't mix.
interesting to know if this is a preconception i've reinforced in my own behaviours and understandings and if there is a solid physiological reason for it.
i don't really doubt that there is, but like you guys i'm very curious to know what it is.
 
footscrazy said:
^ Ahhhhhhh hahaha, I have been hoping this word comes to mind for about 3 years now. But it never has. I thought you were going to solve my prob then! ;)
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From thesaurus.com for consciousness:

Main Entry: aware
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: knowledgeable
Synonyms: acquainted, alert, alive, appraised, appreciative, apprehensive, apprised, attentive, au courant, awake, cognizant, conscious, cool*, enlightened, familiar, go-go, groovy*, grounded, heedful, hip*, in the know, in the picture, informed, into*, know the score, know what's what, know-how, knowing, latched on, mindful, on the beam, on to, perceptive, plugged in, receptive, savvy, sensible, sentient, sharp, tuned in, up on, wise, wise to, wised up, with it
Antonyms: ignorant, insensitive, unaware, unconscious
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You were groovy? Hip? Tuned in? :D
 
Haha more like savvy, on the beam and latched on ;)

But no! It was a psychological or medical term, my addiction doc once said it in relation to the valium she'd prescribed me, when I said benzos were usless to me (I know I know, I'm a weirdo) and she said they may be helping me even though I wasn't 'feeling them consciously.'
 
booze for the win!!! :p

had a wicked pool party tuesday jsut passed, drunk as had loads of mates over,

was good times for all, except for cops being called twice for noise pollution lol
 
I'm not really much of a big party person, but when my Dad went to Thailand and the house was free I decided to let my sister throw a party whilst I wasn't there. It went off, mainly the teenage boys getting drunk and acting like idiots, throwing glass bottles on the road at cars, playing the music much too loud, etc... the neighbors came over a few times and told them they needed to tone it down, of course these drunken teenagers did the exact opposite and the police were called. I found out the next day and right away drover over to assess the damage (not too bad) and to force my sister to apologize to all of our neighbors, who for some reason thought I was the one threw the party when I am probably the last likely person here to throw a massive party like that. I much prefer smaller parties, with good music on, people not out of control but still out there and good conversation going on. :)
 
I kinda dislike how alcohol is the main party drug, and weed on the side..
I just dispise the taste of alochol, nothing can cover that taste up, not even the cruisers can cover it up enough.

But I deal with it, I too dislike massive parties (unless it's those rare days where I just love to socialize.)
I'd much rather a few mates around just having a bit of fun over some drugs, mostly alcohol as that's what 80% will only use.

But yeah, just saying that I dislike alochol to the alco thread.
I've heard people say, the more you drink it the better it gets, like an aquired taste, but going through all of that gross tasting liquid is just *puke*

Anyways, I'm just bored and wanted to babble whilst I eat my pizza.
 
Interesting theory about the correlation between opioid tolerance and enjoyment of alcohol. Before I took a reasonable break at the end of last year I had a pretty formiddable opioid tolerance for a non addict and I was continuing to drink every single day in that period of time. These days when I use an opiate, I do find it easier to have a few less drinks but I always drink. I always just thought that opioids making people prone to nausea and a lot of people not being able to handle piss in general made it a combo that few found particularly enjoyable.

As a side note one of the worst and first junkies I ever knew used to have a pretty sizeable MSCONTIN habit and he was a chronic drunk. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule though, would be very interesting if it were proven either way.

Juark I guess shit comes down to personal opinion because in my opinion spirits are fucking delicious with the right mixer. Granted I don't really like wine or beer but it is hard to imagine someone couldn't find a single alcoholic drink out of hundreds that they enjoy even slightly.
 
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