Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[8L4YN3]

Psh symantics, I'll simplify
Endorphins = Pleasure
Opiates = Pleasure
therefore
Endorphins=Opiates%)

The word endorphin literally means morphine made inside your body.

Endorphin ("endogenous morphine")

Or so wikipedia claims....so endorphins more means opiates created by your body..

 

[SkagKush]

burnnnnnnnnnt out

 

[Bubblebobble]

To anyone with advice...

After lurking for quite some time, I've decided to make an account so I could inquire about suboxone dosing/tapering. I typed up a PM for JamesBrown, but unfortunately I haven't made any posts, so I was unable to send my PM. Instead of posting useless nonsense to reach "bluelighter status" (or whatever it is), I'll just post my PM here. Anyone with advice, comments, tips, please feel free to respond. Thanks to all that do.




The PM:

JamesBrown (JB),

I've been a lurker here for years and years. I've been reading the suboxone megathread for a few hours now and have found your posts to be quite interesting.

I have been on suboxone for ~1 year. I started on a dose of 32mg (which I now know was *way* too much). I quickly got down to 16mg. After a couple months of 16, down to 12mg, then to 8mg. I stayed at 8mg for the majority of the year. I started a taper 3 months ago and have made it down to 4mg. I have all my doses recorded in an app. My "average" daily dose over the course of the whole year equates to 6.74mg/day.

So my question is: Do you think I could benefit from a lowered dose the way you and your friends are? If I get down to 1-2mg/day, do you think I would feel the positive side-effects, or have I squashed that chance with my longterm use and high dosage?

Also, how long have you been on suboxone? (If you don't mind me asking) What dose did you start on, and how long were you on it, etc? I'm just curious if I will be able to get my dose down as low as you, and more importantly, as easily as you. I've experienced some hardship getting from 8mg-4mg. Nothing horrible, but definite symptoms and some sweaty nights with little sleep.

Anyways, if you have any advice on how to get my dose lower (and more effective), I'm all ears, because after tons and tons of research I'm convinced that being on a high dose of suboxone is just wasting the drug (and money).

Thanks for any support or advice you can lend to me, I greatly appreciate it. And sorry for sending such a long PM outta the blue.

-BB

PLUR

 

[SkagKush]

if your at 4mg, you can drop down to 2mg easily...... just use a razor blade very carefully to cut it.....i did that same drop very easily.....

yes worth it......100 percent......

after that step even lower will be even better, but i am so very happy at 2mg (using washroom everyday and euphoria)


UPDATE

snorted 0.5mg two hours ago..... another soon

and going to 1.5mg IN tomo

 

[Jabberwocky]

UPDATE

snorted 0.5mg two hours ago..... another soon

and going to 1.5mg IN tomo

how do you like IN? did you notice a difference?
imo, it kicks in much much faster. something like 20 minutes versus 45 or an hour

 

[SubDude]

how long have you been on bupe? and how often do you take a break from it? and whats your normal dose? those answers might be why you feel fine when you stop taking it.. i've been taking it 3 1/2 years and never missed a day, and even though im on a low dose i still feel like shit when i don't dose for a while.

i used to fuck like crazy on opiates (bupe or full agonists.. didn't matter) with my babies mama ( im 22 w/ 3 kids ) we would fuck for hours since it was so hard to bust a nut.. but i had no problem ever getting hard while high.. in fact i would get hard and even after sex wouldn't be able to get it down, maybe im just backwards lol.

You're the norm regarding subs WD's and it's disingenuous for someone to give addicts false hope regarding eliminating WD's by following an unresearched and unproven method.

Opiates can influence testosterone levels for many addicts. Getting an erection can be completely different than achieving an orgasim. Levitra/cialis /viagra pills will increase the blood flow to your penis and give you an errection but don't think it will address your libido and/or testosterone. There are other treatment options available for that including shots, patches and/or a gel to raise your testerone levels. You might get help by searching opiates related to hypogonadism if you have difficulity with your sex life. Good luck!!

 

[Bubblebobble]

if your at 4mg, you can drop down to 2mg easily...... just use a razor blade very carefully to cut it.....i did that same drop very easily.....

yes worth it......100 percent......

after that step even lower will be even better, but i am so very happy at 2mg (using washroom everyday and euphoria)


UPDATE

snorted 0.5mg two hours ago..... another soon

and going to 1.5mg IN tomo

Skag, thanks for the reply. Did you have *any* symptoms dropping from 4mg to 2mg? If so, what can I expect?

 

[JamtasticX]

The word endorphin literally means morphine made inside your body.

Endorphin ("endogenous morphine")

Or so wikipedia claims....so endorphins more means opiates created by your body..

I know, so opiates essentially make morphine.

Great argument to use against "drug people"
"I don't understand why you do opiates"
"You take an anti-depressant right"
"Yea, but I have to"
"why?"
"Somethings not right in my brain"
"Well, I have an endorphin deficiency"

If only my Dr bought that one

 

[ta2demon]

Never realized just how powerful sub really is..My girl was bored the other night and has never done an opiate and was like "hey will your meds get me high?" I was like yeah probably..I shaved a TINY amount off an 8mg pill..I mean TINY...Like a line 1/4 as long and thin as a toothpick (probably smaller actually like 0.5% of the pill) ..And she got tore..She was nodding so hard and doin the dope lean,scratching her nose etc etc..Crazy..Wish it did that to me lol..She did however wake up the next day and puke pretty much all day.

 

[pins&needles]

When I first started taking subs last year, I used to get 1 8mg pill every 4 days.Even after being a daily heroin user, just half a pill would make me feel well and even a little euphoric, and I would still be well the next day without taking any. After awhile I Had a tougher time getting them and they were pretty expensive so I found a Dr. Where Im from there are only two suboxone doctors and neither of them were taking new patients. After about three months of hell I finally found a doctor about four hours away. He prescribed 32mg's a day and I thought "great taking a large dose is gonna get me more fucked up than ever". However, that wasnt the case. I immediately noticed I felt alot worse on such a high dose, It made me feel like I wasnt attached to my body and felt completely out of it. He is now writing my scripts for 24mg's a day but I only take 8mg's. Its nice because he gives me three refills every time because I live so far away and I only see him once every three months. I feel so much better on a smaller dose. I am worried to tell him he is giving me sixty extra subs a month that i dont even need but dont want to lose my doctor.I am going to go down two mg's next week and see how it goes.

 

[Bubblebobble]

This is my first day on 3mg/day. I took 1mg this morning, I'm taking 1mg now (9:30pm) and I will take 1mg before bed. If symptoms aren't bad, after a week or two of this I will attempt dropping to 2mg/day.

I will post any interesting effects/findings.

 

[jamesBrown]

This is my first day on 3mg/day. I took 1mg this morning, I'm taking 1mg now (9:30pm) and I will take 1mg before bed. If symptoms aren't bad, after a week or two of this I will attempt dropping to 2mg/day.

I will post any interesting effects/findings.

I'm sry i didnt get a chance to read your post in time to answer it quickly. I have been majorly inacapacitated by some lower back/spine issues the past few days and have been having trouble even sitting in a chair so I have not been spending much time on Bluelight as a result.

If you still want me to I can type up a response to your post from earlier(it will be long and take some time as your post asked quite a few questions) and I would be glad to do it. But if you have allready gotten your answers and are satisfied with them i wont go through the effort.
Please just let me know if you still need my assistance and I will be glad to help.
Hope alls well...good luck

 

[JamtasticX]

nodding off bupe + benzo please help in time, lol

I have a question about getting a nod wit benzoa and bupe. (benzos are klonopin)

quick backstory.
friday 2mg sub
sat nothing (except adderall if that make a difference)
sun nothing '' ''
monday benzo's + heroin, 1 shot around 5pm, one shot around 11 - was soooo retarded all night, horrible (atleast for g/f - i was gone)

tonight i came home (4ish pm)still a little benzo'd out, and sniffed 4 mg of sub, it took a little bit, but no PWs, and from fri @ 9sih am - mon 5pm no withdrawals

Questioin, I was nodding pretty hard, both sub + kpin have long half lifes, so i should still be nodding, and i'm kinda jammed/feel good, but I want to be nding out

before my g/f gets here should I sniff some more suboxone, maybe just 1 or 2 mg? i've already took 3 more mg of kpin (I took 5 when i got home tonight

also, captain.heroin or someone else, i could shoot a small amount of bupe quickly, but sometimes i miss a little and get worried about what will happen, i have no micron filter, should i be ok to use needle exchange cottons to filter, and if i miss a bit sill be ok?

NSFW:

Never realized just how powerful sub really is..My girl was bored the other night and has never done an opiate and was like "hey will your meds get me high?" I was like yeah probably..I shaved a TINY amount off an 8mg pill..I mean TINY...Like a line 1/4 as long and thin as a toothpick (probably smaller actually like 0.5% of the pill) ..And she got tore..She was nodding so hard and doin the dope lean,scratching her nose etc etc..Crazy..Wish it did that to me lol..She did however wake up the next day and puke pretty much all day.

nodding on bupe + benzo plz help

When I first started taking subs last year, I used to get 1 8mg pill every 4 days.Even after being a daily heroin user, just half a pill would make me feel well and even a little euphoric, and I would still be well the next day without taking any. After awhile I Had a tougher time getting them and they were pretty expensive so I found a Dr. Where Im from there are only two suboxone doctors and neither of them were taking new patients. After about three months of hell I finally found a doctor about four hours away. He prescribed 32mg's a day and I thought "great taking a large dose is gonna get me more fucked up than ever". However, that wasnt the case. I immediately noticed I felt alot worse on such a high dose, It made me feel like I wasnt attached to my body and felt completely out of it. He is now writing my scripts for 24mg's a day but I only take 8mg's. Its nice because he gives me three refills every time because I live so far away and I only see him once every three months. I feel so much better on a smaller dose. I am worried to tell him he is giving me sixty extra subs a month that i dont even need but dont want to lose my doctor.I am going to go down two mg's next week and see how it goes.

to the two quotes, i'm having a hard time typing because of keyboard and shit, but i have things i want to sat to you too and will as soon as I get the chance

 

[jamesBrown]

Questioin, I was nodding pretty hard, both sub + kpin have long half lifes, so i should still be nodding, and i'm kinda jammed/feel good, but I want to be nding out

before my g/f gets here should I sniff some more suboxone, maybe just 1 or 2 mg? i've already took 3 more mg of kpin (I took 5 when i got home tonight

also, captain.heroin or someone else, i could shoot a small amount of bupe quickly, but sometimes i miss a little and get worried about what will happen, i have no micron filter, should i be ok to use needle exchange cottons to filter, and if i miss a bit sill be ok?

I cant really tell you how to "nod out" better at this point in time. Not only because it was hard to understand what you were saying, but also because its just a difficult thing to "calculate" over the internet.....not to mention it has NOTHING to do with BL's goals and we are not here to help you get a better high. (I mean that with all due respect, I am just pointing out that even I could get in trouble for trying to help you get a better high, while paying no attention to harm reduction).

As far as injecting the suboxone solution without a micron filter.....I can tell you, as you allready know, that micron filtering your sub shots make them MUCH safer. But, if you do not have access to a micron filter, a tight piece of cotton will do, it just wont be as safe, or sterile). But, if you happen to miss, even just a little bit, of one of your non micron filtered shots, there is ALWAYS a possibility of you developing an abscess or a related issue. So, no, we cannot tell you that it is definitely "OK" when you miss your shot....all we can tell you is to do your best to get the proper medical supplies(i.e. micron filters, clean needles, etc), use proper technique, and if yuo do happen to miss a shot...keep a very close eye on it and if it shows any signs of infection or anything like that, go to a doctor immediately, because you could be at risk of losing a limb. The risk is always there, and no one with half a brain on BL will tell you that you are definitely fine if you miss a non-micron-filtered suboxone shot.(even if it is micron filtered you are still at risk of an abscess or something similar, its just that the risk is less).

 

[JamtasticX]

I cant really tell you how to "nod out" better at this point in time. Not only because it was hard to understand what you were saying, but also because its just a difficult thing to "calculate" over the internet.....not to mention it has NOTHING to do with BL's goals and we are not here to help you get a better high. (I mean that with all due respect, I am just pointing out that even I could get in trouble for trying to help you get a better high, while paying no attention to harm reduction).

As far as injecting the suboxone solution without a micron filter.....I can tell you, as you allready know, that micron filtering your sub shots make them MUCH safer. But, if you do not have access to a micron filter, a tight piece of cotton will do, it just wont be as safe, or sterile). But, if you happen to miss, even just a little bit, of one of your non micron filtered shots, there is ALWAYS a possibility of you developing an abscess or a related issue. So, no, we cannot tell you that it is definitely "OK" when you miss your shot....all we can tell you is to do your best to get the proper medical supplies(i.e. micron filters, clean needles, etc), use proper technique, and if yuo do happen to miss a shot...keep a very close eye on it and if it shows any signs of infection or anything like that, go to a doctor immediately, because you could be at risk of losing a limb. The risk is always there, and no one with half a brain on BL will tell you that you are definitely fine if you miss a non-micron-filtered suboxone shot.(even if it is micron filtered you are still at risk of an abscess or something similar, its just that the risk is less).

im not going to fight with you, but assuming i down a whole bottlee of kpin to try to get tha feeling back it is harm reductioin, this site is not all harm reduction, look at most threads, its people trying to get high in safe ways should i take all my sub iv, + all my benzos to try to get high, its not the point of not telling people how to do things, we will do it anyway, harm reduction is the best way of doing things, so i was asking what was the best/safest way to accomplish that, i would argue it has everything to do with blue lights goals

 

[jamesBrown]

im not going to fight with you, but assuming i down a whole bottlee of kpin to try to get tha feeling back it is harm reductioin, this site is not all harm reduction, look at most threads, its people trying to get high in safe ways should i take all my sub iv, + all my benzos to try to get high, its not the point of not telling people how to do things, we will do it anyway, harm reduction is the best way of doing things, so i was asking what was the best/safest way to accomplish that,

There are a shitload of different ways and doses and tiems you dose, etc....to get another "buzz" in a safe way. Its jsut that we cannot be expected to sit here and explain them all.

I think you misinterpreted my post....I wasnt trying to say that you were posting a comletely self serving post or anything, but you really didnt give us like 2 options to choose from for example.
If you had said...should I do "A"?.....or should I do "B"?...(you could of had more than 2 options, im just using a simple example)....THEN we can determine which method is safer than the other. But when you jus tell us what you had taken before and what shoudl you do now to get "buzzin" more, it is kinda a question with too many answers. I think it would help if you narrowed it down to a couple ideas that you had in mind that we could tell you which one was the safest, or the most effective, etc.
Do you see what I mean?

I also think alot of the problem was because your post was very hard to read/understand. I wasnt exactly sure what you were saying the entire time.

 

[SkagKush]

snorting bupe.....o snorting bupe

 

[jjdonkey]

In the interest of harm reduction, I have to say that my doctor warned me that no matter what, DO NOT take benzos with suboxone. So much so that he took away the few klonopins I had left from my prescription. He said we'd have to find a better way to deal with anxiety. I mean, he even said "I realize people relapse, I realize people abuse whatever they have in a time of need....BUT DON'T TAKE BENZOS OF ANY KIND"

I'm not going to change anyone's mind about anything, just hoping y'all will be careful. (just stopped by the bluelight shrine this morning. sobering)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

also, captain.heroin or someone else, i could shoot a small amount of bupe quickly, but sometimes i miss a little and get worried about what will happen, i have no micron filter, should i be ok to use needle exchange cottons to filter, and if i miss a bit sill be ok?

The inactive ingredients left in the solution can cause damage, but ignoring this, you also have other things to worry about, such as the sterility of your water source, the pills, and the other equipment you use. Tap water can be used, but isn't ideal to use due to the fact that it can be contaminated. You also have to ensure that the pill you are using, the spoon (and whatever else you're using to produce the shot, including cotton, etc) is sterile.

It is possible to still be OK after missing part of a shot, but it's not something you can really ensure without using a micron filter.

In the interest of harm reduction, I have to say that my doctor warned me that no matter what, DO NOT take benzos with suboxone. So much so that he took away the few klonopins I had left from my prescription. He said we'd have to find a better way to deal with anxiety. I mean, he even said "I realize people relapse, I realize people abuse whatever they have in a time of need....BUT DON'T TAKE BENZOS OF ANY KIND"

I'm not going to change anyone's mind about anything, just hoping y'all will be careful. (just stopped by the bluelight shrine this morning. sobering)

Your doctor is misinformed. Benzos with Suboxone is relatively safe and common.

The problem occurs when people take too many benzos at once, this can cause a lot of respiratory depression.

There's no reason why your doctor should have taken away your clonazepam, though.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

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What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:

Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intraduodenal: 9.7%

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intramuscular: 68%
"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"

intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"

intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."

intravenous: 98%-100%

oral: 10%
"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"

sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

transdermal: 15%

Other Notes:

• Bupe is CIII in the US.
• Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
• Half-life: 37 hours.
• Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
• A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
• Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
• Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
• Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion

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