Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[ILikeSub]

Is it just me or does it seem like doctors are starting too/have bein prescribing higher doses than needed like they often do with methadone?

ive seen it millions of times people on methadone maintence getting their dose raised almost every freakin week sometimes.I have an aquiantence going through it right now.
I have also seen people on Suboxone maintence sometimes having their dosages raised[usually by at least 4-8mlgs] too and/or starting off on dosages that imo just seem to freakin high.And I have had handfuls of people who have had their dosages raised tell me that they often didnt really need it raised but allowed it to be raised for whatever reason.Wheather they wanted more affect but didnt *REALLY* need it or whatever.
24mlgs for example.Someone I went to group with a year ago was on 24mlgs/day.He said he started on that dose too.Even with a 120mlg oc habit/daily that seems high to me.
I think that with people that have more so severe cases of addiction should be on a high dose for maybe 2 days and then start tapering right away after those couple/few days down to a dose still comfortable.
I also think that the starting dose shouldn't be higher than like 18mlgs or so.Even with someone who has a severe opiate addiction,Buprenorphine is a powerful drug and it just seems excessively used to me just like methadone.

It also seems like many people get to a high dose and then are hovering in that dose for more than 6,7 sometimes 9 months.I think Buprenorphine can "cure" almost anyones opiate addiction within 30 days.Some of those days may be a little painful but at the right dose I think it could be done 99% of the time.The physical part that is.The mental part can take up to years.

 

[SkagKush]

harder to over prescribe bupe, with a ceiling dose and all.....

 

[jamesBrown]

Is it just me or does it seem like doctors are starting too/have bein prescribing higher doses than needed like they often do with methadone?

ive seen it millions of times people on methadone maintence getting their dose raised almost every freakin week sometimes.I have an aquiantence going through it right now.
I have also seen people on Suboxone maintence sometimes having their dosages raised[usually by at least 4-8mlgs] too and/or starting off on dosages that imo just seem to freakin high.And I have had handfuls of people who have had their dosages raised tell me that they often didnt really need it raised but allowed it to be raised for whatever reason.Wheather they wanted more affect but didnt *REALLY* need it or whatever.
24mlgs for example.Someone I went to group with a year ago was on 24mlgs/day.He said he started on that dose too.Even with a 120mlg oc habit/daily that seems high to me.
I think that with people that have more so severe cases of addiction should be on a high dose for maybe 2 days and then start tapering right away after those couple/few days down to a dose still comfortable.
I also think that the starting dose shouldn't be higher than like 18mlgs or so.Even with someone who has a severe opiate addiction,Buprenorphine is a powerful drug and it just seems excessively used to me just like methadone.

It also seems like many people get to a high dose and then are hovering in that dose for more than 6,7 sometimes 9 months.I think Buprenorphine can "cure" almost anyones opiate addiction within 30 days.Some of those days may be a little painful but at the right dose I think it could be done 99% of the time.The physical part that is.The mental part can take up to years.

This is what ive been trying to say all along. People are being given WAAAAAY to much suboxone. I can understand that at the very begininng, the first couple of days, you might need a slightly higher dose to take care of the WD's, but there is no excuse to stay at that dose when it doesnt hurt at all to lower it to something closer to 2-4mg's. Thats just my opinion.....I was able to go from an extremely large 4 year IV heroin habit, to only 2mg's suboxone/day.....immediately.......and then from there I was able to quickly lower my dose to only 0.5mg's and thats what I stayed at for months and months and it gave me so many more beneficial effects than a high dose of suboxone would. I have posted about those benefits so many times here on BL I feel no need to repeat them.

Allthough, I have always heard of this "overprescribing problem" I have never actually witnessed it first hand....because my sub doctor starts people off at 4mg's and then if you need 4 more mg's he allows it, and on RARE occassions if you need 4 more mg's then he might allow it(which he did with me, I was supposed to be on 12mg's/day)...and then he told me that he has only allowed 4 more mg's(16mg's total) only like once or twice....so I would say my sub doc was quite prudent compared to most docotors. I am still at that 12mg dose I just dont take most of it and give some of the rest to 2 of my friends daily so they can stay clean from heroin, and I stockpile the rest.(Isn't that funny, someone who is on a comparably small dose of subs(me), is able to keep 3 people clean with only the one small prescription, and I could help a few more I just dont know anymore people who wanna get clean). Also....when I tell my doctor about all these people who are being prescribed much higher amounts of suboxone and ask him about it....he always tells me that thats a lie and wherever I got that information is unreliable. Just more proof that some doctors are willfully ignorant. Why would dozens and dozens of people tell me the exact same lie about there suboxone dose level? Its just rediculous, I dont bother trying to argue with him.....after all, he's the man with the prescription pad.

Also....I slighlty dissagree with you about your statement saying that
"I think Buprenorphine can "cure" almost anyones opiate addiction within 30 days"
I think that yes, some people, can do a much quicker taper or maintanence on suboxone and only use it for a short period of time(like 30 days give or take) and be able to get completely clean afterwards.....in fact, I think almost everybody can do this.....but the problem is that I think most of those people will relapse because of a lack of willpower.....the same lack of willpower that allowed them to become addicts in the first place. It takes alot of time of re-adjustment to living a sober life, and getting use to having to only enjoy your brain releasing small amounts of dopamine from natural occurences rather than a chemical injection to be able to drop off of your maintanence drug completely. If you drop off too soon, your mind may still be in that drug using mindset, and that is a recipe for disaster.....not only will you probably relapse...but you will have the feeling of total failure because you allready tried suboxone maintanence and failed.....I think it comes down to this....
If your going to do something worth doing, do it right the first time.

*apologies for the long post, i realize no one will read this.

 

[ILikeSub]

This is what ive been trying to say all along. People are being given WAAAAAY to much suboxone. I can understand that at the very begininng, the first couple of days, you might need a slightly higher dose to take care of the WD's, but there is no excuse to stay at that dose when it doesnt hurt at all to lower it to something closer to 2-4mg's. Thats just my opinion.....I was able to go from an extremely large 4 year IV heroin habit, to only 2mg's suboxone/day.....immediately.......and then from there I was able to quickly lower my dose to only 0.5mg's and thats what I stayed at for months and months and it gave me so many more beneficial effects than a high dose of suboxone would. I have posted about those benefits so many times here on BL I feel no need to repeat them.

Allthough, I have always heard of this "overprescribing problem" I have never actually witnessed it first hand....because my sub doctor starts people off at 4mg's and then if you need 4 more mg's he allows it, and on RARE occassions if you need 4 more mg's then he might allow it(which he did with me, I was supposed to be on 12mg's/day)...and then he told me that he has only allowed 4 more mg's(16mg's total) only like once or twice....so I would say my sub doc was quite prudent compared to most docotors. I am still at that 12mg dose I just dont take most of it and give some of the rest to 2 of my friends daily so they can stay clean from heroin, and I stockpile the rest.(Isn't that funny, someone who is on a comparably small dose of subs(me), is able to keep 3 people clean with only the one small prescription, and I could help a few more I just dont know anymore people who wanna get clean). Also....when I tell my doctor about all these people who are being prescribed much higher amounts of suboxone and ask him about it....he always tells me that thats a lie and wherever I got that information is unreliable. Just more proof that some doctors are willfully ignorant. Why would dozens and dozens of people tell me the exact same lie about there suboxone dose level? Its just rediculous, I dont bother trying to argue with him.....after all, he's the man with the prescription pad.

Also....I slighlty dissagree with you about your statement saying that
"I think Buprenorphine can "cure" almost anyones opiate addiction within 30 days"
I think that yes, some people, can do a much quicker taper or maintanence on suboxone and only use it for a short period of time(like 30 days give or take) and be able to get completely clean afterwards.....in fact, I think almost everybody can do this.....but the problem is that I think most of those people will relapse because of a lack of willpower.....the same lack of willpower that allowed them to become addicts in the first place. It takes alot of time of re-adjustment to living a sober life, and getting use to having to only enjoy your brain releasing small amounts of dopamine from natural occurences rather than a chemical injection to be able to drop off of your maintanence drug completely. If you drop off too soon, your mind may still be in that drug using mindset, and that is a recipe for disaster.....not only will you probably relapse...but you will have the feeling of total failure because you allready tried suboxone maintanence and failed.....I think it comes down to this....
If your going to do something worth doing, do it right the first time.

*apologies for the long post, i realize no one will read this.

Psh I read it.

Nice! It makes me smile to know you are able to help others with your own perscription and still have enough to stockpile and get by.Awesome.
I wish the best for you and your buds!

Doctors are so full of shit..I swear some get you hooked on purpose so they can freakin keep you as a patient.I believe ALOT of methadone docs do this and it seems the Suboxone doctors are becoming hip to that too.
Jeez.

As far as my 30 days statement goes,that is why I said at the end "the physical part of course.the mental addiction can take years sometimes".
But your point is understood.You do have to adjust to getting happiness from natural thigns compared to getting it from ingestion of said opiod.
As you basically said,willpower is key.

 

[jamesBrown]

Psh I read it.

Nice! It makes me smile to know you are able to help others with your own perscription and still have enough to stockpile and get by.Awesome.
I wish the best for you and your buds!Doctors are so full of shit..I swear some get you hooked on purpose so they can freakin keep you as a patient.I believe ALOT of methadone docs do this and it seems the Suboxone doctors are becoming hip to that too.
Jeez.

As far as my 30 days statement goes,that is why I said at the end "the physical part of course.the mental addiction can take years sometimes".
But your point is understood.You do have to adjust to getting happiness from natural thigns compared to getting it from ingestion of said opiod.
As you basically said,willpower is key.

Yes, thank you, but its sad though that what im doing is a felony....actually 2. I only do it because they can barely afford to live, let alone go to a doctor and pay for a prescriptions(hundreds of dollars a month).....so I give it to them for free, allowing them to become free of there addictions and live better, more productive lives, and actually contribute to our society, rather than steal and lie all the time. In fact, both my friends are like me and are taking about 0.5mg doses and are getting euphoria out of the low doses along with energy, and anti-depressant qualities.....and they can stop using anytime with no withdrawal effects like me. For example, I am currently ~25 days off of suboxone just to show people that my maintanance methods(low dose) can actually prevent the horrible long lasting withdrawals from suboxone, as well as the PAWS sometimes. Of course it doesnt work for everyone, but nothing does.....but I think it would work for most people.

 

[ILikeSub]

Yes, thank you, but its sad though that what im doing is a felony....actually 2. I only do it because they can barely afford to live, let alone go to a doctor and pay for a prescriptions(hundreds of dollars a month).....so I give it to them for free, allowing them to become free of there addictions and live better, more productive lives, and actually contribute to our society, rather than steal and lie all the time. In fact, both my friends are like me and are taking about 0.5mg doses and are getting euphoria out of the low doses along with energy, and anti-depressant qualities.....and they can stop using anytime with no withdrawal effects like me. For example, I am currently ~25 days off of suboxone just to show people that my maintanance methods(low dose) can actually prevent the horrible long lasting withdrawals from suboxone, as well as the PAWS sometimes. Of course it doesnt work for everyone, but nothing does.....but I think it would work for most people.

I am the same.I get ripped off of miny doses too and if I dont have any the WD's are so0o0o minor.I can deal with them.
It's good to help them out like that.Your reasons are all 100% valid.
Kudos.
I get amazing anti depressant effects from Bup/Norbup.Major euphoria and sometimes nod out too.
ANYONE CAN HAVE THIS.YOU JUST NEED LOTS OF PATIENCE,WILLPOWER AND DISCIPLINE.TAPERING PROPERLY IS THE KEY!
As you said,once you get down to a low enough dose,it wont be to much of a problem when you end up in a situation where you are opiateless.

 

[SubDude]

JamesBrown

I don't understand why your 2 friends need suboxone to stay clean from heroin when they have no addiction. I also find it interesting that you and your friends can take subs with out getting WD's and me and mine do have WD's when quiting. Why would you continue to give them subs when they don't have WD's without it? Whats the point?

Regarding your PAWS "experiment"... are you planning to be abstinent for at least a few mos... since most experts claim PAWS can last as long as 6mos+.
I also wonder if your results will be valid since [in previous posts] you've admitted to using other drugs like pot, benzos...etc. Perhaps those can be masking many of the WD symptoms?? Especially the depression, irritability, insomnia.

Another thing I don't understnd is how you can "pass" your BMT urine screens since they test to confirm subs patients are actually taking their meds? I can't imagine a subs dr continuing to prescribe subs when you aren't taking it....

One final thing is that you mention will power is essentially the key to staying off opiates. However, according to the addiction "disease" concept... will power has little or no effect on a drug addict getting and staying off drugs... The following statement:

Many people also erroneously still believe that drug addiction is simply a failure of will or of strength of character. Research contradicts that position.

Comes from:

http://www.nicd.us/thediseaseconceptandbrainchemistry.html

This is only one reference but their are hundreds more with the same message.

 

[coldbleed]

need a better roa

snorting is killing my sinus can you put it in a spray bottle like roxies or not i cant find in megatread

 

[jamesBrown]

I don't understand why your 2 friends need suboxone to stay clean from heroin when they have no addiction. I also find it interesting that you and your friends can take subs with out getting WD's and me and mine do have WD's when quiting. Why would you continue to give them subs when they don't have WD's without it? Whats the point?

Regarding your PAWS "experiment"... are you planning to be abstinent for at least a few mos... since most experts claim PAWS can last as long as 6mos+.
I also wonder if your results will be valid since [in previous posts] you've admitted to using other drugs like pot, benzos...etc. Perhaps those can be masking many of the WD symptoms?? Especially the depression, irritability, insomnia.

Another thing I don't understnd is how you can "pass" your BMT urine screens since they test to confirm subs patients are actually taking their meds? I can't imagine a subs dr continuing to prescribe subs when you aren't taking it....

One final thing is that you mention will power is essentially the key to staying off opiates. However, according to the addiction "disease" concept... will power has little or no effect on a drug addict getting and staying off drugs... The following statement:

Many people also erroneously still believe that drug addiction is simply a failure of will or of strength of character. Research contradicts that position.

Comes from:

http://www.nicd.us/thediseaseconceptandbrainchemistry.html

This is only one reference but their are hundreds more with the same message.

Like I told you before man, if you have all these detailed questions about my suboxone usage you are more than welcome to PM me.

 

[SkagKush]

post....repeat.....

 

[jamesBrown]

so tell me, hows the taper going skag?

 

[SkagKush]

still at 2mg, have not even tried snorting it yet (dont wanna fuck my tolerance)

and i dunno how im gunna go down from here, or if i should be splitting up my doses during the day.....

i could go for a buzz...... but otherwise good, still at 2mg which is still low with the BA of SL

 

[jamesBrown]

still at 2mg, have not even tried snorting it yet (dont wanna fuck my tolerance)

and i dunno how im gunna go down from here, or if i should be splitting up my doses during the day.....

i could go for a buzz...... but otherwise good, still at 2mg which is still low with the BA of SL

Yea, i mean, you should do what you wanna do. If your perfectly happy at the 2mg dose then you can stay there. It's atleast alot better than a much higher dose in my opinion.
It's just that i believe, from my research and experience, that if you lowered your dose even more, you could be getting even better effects from your sub doses. but its your body, and your decision...so do what you like. i just want you to experience subs the way I do. And I think if you did drop your dose to like 1mg/day and stay at that dose, you will finally understand what im talking about and you would feel like a fool for taking so long to lower your dose to 1mg. But like I said, its most important for you to do what makes you happiest.

and when you say...."and i dunno how im gunna go down from here"...

all I can say is, simply stop taking 2mg's a day, and start only taking 1mg. Maybe take 0.5 in the morning, and 0.5 in the afternoon. Or you could take it all at once in the morning. Whatever you want. Trust me, it is not hard to lower your dose even further. Your life will not be turned upside down if you did it. but, do what you like and as long as your sober and happy, thats all that is important.

 

[ATLL765]

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned in the megathread that a solution for a nasal spray is possible. It might be in the old version(v.8) not the new one though. Either way, I can't imagine it not being possible. It's water soluble, so you just need to mix your sub with water and put some sort of diluted alcohol type preservative to keep it from growing any bacteria in there.

Try searching for the old sub megathread and looking through that, you may find the info you need there. If not, PM Captain Heroin, he's always knowledgeable on the topic of suboxone, so I'm sure he'd be able to tell you exactly what to do for this.

 

[SkagKush]

ya so u say 0.5mg am and the same again in the pm......

what times.... say i start at noon.... and what ROA? SL or IN

 

[jamesBrown]

ya so u say 0.5mg am and the same again in the pm......

what times.... say i start at noon.... and what ROA? SL or IN

I honestly think you should do it intranasally, that is, of course, if you dont have anything against it. I told you a while back that you should be snorting your subs in my opinion. Its a better BA, and in my experience, it helps you get more out of the suboxone, including the euphoria.

As far as the times you take your doses....that doesnt really matter.....whenever you feel like taking them i guess.
I would usually take my first dose very soon after I wake up because it had been the longest amount of time since I had dosed, and I noticed the effects were stronger from that first morning dose.....and then dose again at like 6 p.m. It really doesnt matter, just do it when it is convenient to you, and im sure you will end up with a schedule/routine.
Mayb you might want to do 3 doses of 0.5mg's to start off. One in the morning, one in the afternoon, and on in the evening. Then, after a few days of this, you can go down to only two doses of 0.5mg's/day. Its whatever you wanna do.

i just think its important you give this whole only 1mg/day thing a try to see how you like it. It could very well give you the most euphoria out of the suboxone possible,a nd also give you energy and make you jsut feel better all around. but after giving that a try for a while and you decide you want to go up to 1.5mg's/day or 2mg's/day then you can do that, as long as it works better for you that way.

 

[BIGsherm7272]

why not just get the new strips? They dissolve in seconds from what I hear.

 

[SkagKush]

ya sounds good...... for today i will take another .5mgs, snorting it....

and tomo i will start with 1.5mg IN, three times in .5mg doses.....

from there, twice a day......

 

[jamesBrown]

ya sounds good...... for today i will take another .5mgs, snorting it....

and tomo i will start with 1.5mg IN, three times in .5mg doses.....

from there, twice a day......

sounds like a great plan to me. I cant wait to see how it works out for you.

 

[ILikeSub]

ya so u say 0.5mg am and the same again in the pm......

what times.... say i start at noon.... and what ROA? SL or IN

I think you should wake up..wait as long as possible before you dose and then dose as little as possible.Stretch it as far as you can.Add only if you need to or want to,that is.Good way to lower tolerance a little.Also good way to discipline yourself.

Also,someone said that willpower is a common misconception about addiction but I think willpower pays a key role and doctors say otherwise because they jus wanna sometimes dish out more meds or whatever.

Also,definatly go intranasaly.Although snortin it feels like addict behavior.Once you start to quit you *MAY* wanna go back to SL.As far as BA,we all know IN beats SL unless using alcohol method..and even then its not always better if you know how to hold the drip like I do.90% of the time I get no drip whatsoever.