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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010
- Thread starter Captain.Heroin
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Paulination
Bluelighter
Ya I read that a couple years ago when I just started on suboxone and was like 50% increase and reduced tolerance and addiction!?! woohoo! and then I felt sorry for all those people using subutex and what theyre missing out on. i wonder if they knew when they were putting in the nalaxone if this would happen. I read that even though the nalaxone is inactive in suboxone you get like .1% of the nalaxone hehe 
Paulination
Bluelighter
Lol i was also going to ask if any of you have fallen asleep with the bupe in your mouth hehe, It just happened to me I was laying with my dogs and it was about 50 min in there and i dosed off and it all drooled out of my mouth and on to my stomach ehh. Same thing happened in math class it was a four hour class so I Would get sleepy one time i was taking it and woke up to find orange goo dripping down my mouth. the teacher was staring at me with cold eyes when I awoke, lukily I dont think too many people saw. sure never did that again tho...well maybe a cuple more times :D
Withdrawal
Hopefully this gets answered fast cus i'm dying. I've been on subs for about 2 months. I was taking 2 8 mg a day then when i knew i was running out and had no more money for the clinic i tapered down to 2 mg but real fast. in like a week and a half. Im dying. Worse than any OC withdrawal. Since i'm coming off bupe and not oxy. If i did like 1/4 of an OC 30 just to feel better could that help at all? or when that wears off ami gonna be back at square one? I guesse wat i'm asking is can i somewhat substktute oxycodone for the bupe i'm hooked on or is it all the same since they're opiates?
Thanks
Hopefully this gets answered fast cus i'm dying. I've been on subs for about 2 months. I was taking 2 8 mg a day then when i knew i was running out and had no more money for the clinic i tapered down to 2 mg but real fast. in like a week and a half. Im dying. Worse than any OC withdrawal. Since i'm coming off bupe and not oxy. If i did like 1/4 of an OC 30 just to feel better could that help at all? or when that wears off ami gonna be back at square one? I guesse wat i'm asking is can i somewhat substktute oxycodone for the bupe i'm hooked on or is it all the same since they're opiates?
Thanks
thanks Paulination, oh how i love erowid for a great read, i should really sign up there.
from wiki
even though the nalaxone is unable bump buprenorphine off the μ-opioid receptors and the κ and δ-opioid receptors in any ROA of suboxone and render the nalaxone useless, would it still be possible to get the side effects associated with nalaxone?
@Georgie25, thanks for the insight. what is your dosing regime if you don't mind me asking? I know little is better, and i have access to suboxne a hell of a lot easier than subutex and plan on using it for desperate times. Like an oxy binge... saving oxy in the long run.
I've heard that 2mg IV'd 4 times a can be quite pleasant in satisfying one's self in though times, Although i tried it with norspan patches (transdermal) applied 2 20mg which are supposed to release 20x2µg an hour. if you add it up, 2 20mg patches realised just under a mg a day. the patches last for 7 days and state the contain 20mg of buprenorphine but do the maths and you get 6.72 mg of bupe released in 7 days. so what happened to the 33mg's? i assumed it's still in the patches but i didn't wait that long.
I was coming off 150ish of oxy a day and for three months(with a few short periods of Running out)in the space of 4 months i have been using from 60 10mg OC to 60 20mg and then to 90 20mg. Day 1 i had my last 150mg dose of oxy at once then put the patches on a few hours later. 24 hours later i felt like shit so i decided to take off one patch on chew on it for as long as possible. Was very subtle and felt like i had no opiate effect at all. I wasn't WD'ing as such, but still felt depressed and extremely unmotivated. Another 24 hours and i decide to chew the second patch- no noticeable effects, when to bed and woke up feeling a little better and noticed how pinned my eyes were, but still no opiate like effects. So thats 72 hours since my last dose of oxycodone and on day 4 i thought the worst was over, but for the next few days i felt like i had mild WD's from the Bupe, which i hadn't had for 5 years essentially. I know all about the bupe WD's when i was on it for five months dosing at 16bi daily at my peak dose and reducing slowly to, and jumping of 2mg. I thought it was a small dose, but i was naive back then and stuck in Queensland with the family holidaying in relentless enduring persistent badness.
Sorry bout the rambling anecdote, Georgie25(and anyone else who bothered to read it
I might as well continue as i was going to make another post anyway,
about how much bupe i actually got from those patches
I don't understand because the only other time i've had bupe was when i was scripted 5mg patches, and when i ate it i got a pretty strong continuous opiate load and a little buzzie euphoria to boot. I had mild to moderate tolerance to codeine and tramadol and maybe H.
Buprenorphine has 10% oral bio so i made sure i chewed them carefully and left it under my tongue for hours before munching the crap out of it for a while and then binning it. I expected to be feeling fine and have a smooth WD and hopefully cheat/luck/plan my way out of any discomfort, but i was wrong, and it just makes me wonder how much bupe i actually had....
Theoretically i should have had close to 40mg over 48 hours with a guess of maybe half Sublingual and half oral... i don't know. i'm guessing i got between 5 and 10 mg of bupe in my system, but just didn't seem to cut it. maybe my dose was too small. I though about cutting them and soaking them but didn't bother to as i couldn't find much info on it, but it could be effective to cut it up as fine as possible, turn it almost into a powder and take it under the tongue
How are BL's experiences been with using Bupe for rapid detox. IS it effective for some of you? or is it just a really good maintenance drug?
from wiki
even though the nalaxone is unable bump buprenorphine off the μ-opioid receptors and the κ and δ-opioid receptors in any ROA of suboxone and render the nalaxone useless, would it still be possible to get the side effects associated with nalaxone?
@Georgie25, thanks for the insight. what is your dosing regime if you don't mind me asking? I know little is better, and i have access to suboxne a hell of a lot easier than subutex and plan on using it for desperate times. Like an oxy binge... saving oxy in the long run.
I've heard that 2mg IV'd 4 times a can be quite pleasant in satisfying one's self in though times, Although i tried it with norspan patches (transdermal) applied 2 20mg which are supposed to release 20x2µg an hour. if you add it up, 2 20mg patches realised just under a mg a day. the patches last for 7 days and state the contain 20mg of buprenorphine but do the maths and you get 6.72 mg of bupe released in 7 days. so what happened to the 33mg's? i assumed it's still in the patches but i didn't wait that long.
I was coming off 150ish of oxy a day and for three months(with a few short periods of Running out)in the space of 4 months i have been using from 60 10mg OC to 60 20mg and then to 90 20mg. Day 1 i had my last 150mg dose of oxy at once then put the patches on a few hours later. 24 hours later i felt like shit so i decided to take off one patch on chew on it for as long as possible. Was very subtle and felt like i had no opiate effect at all. I wasn't WD'ing as such, but still felt depressed and extremely unmotivated. Another 24 hours and i decide to chew the second patch- no noticeable effects, when to bed and woke up feeling a little better and noticed how pinned my eyes were, but still no opiate like effects. So thats 72 hours since my last dose of oxycodone and on day 4 i thought the worst was over, but for the next few days i felt like i had mild WD's from the Bupe, which i hadn't had for 5 years essentially. I know all about the bupe WD's when i was on it for five months dosing at 16bi daily at my peak dose and reducing slowly to, and jumping of 2mg. I thought it was a small dose, but i was naive back then and stuck in Queensland with the family holidaying in relentless enduring persistent badness.
Sorry bout the rambling anecdote, Georgie25(and anyone else who bothered to read it
I might as well continue as i was going to make another post anyway,
about how much bupe i actually got from those patches
I don't understand because the only other time i've had bupe was when i was scripted 5mg patches, and when i ate it i got a pretty strong continuous opiate load and a little buzzie euphoria to boot. I had mild to moderate tolerance to codeine and tramadol and maybe H.Buprenorphine has 10% oral bio so i made sure i chewed them carefully and left it under my tongue for hours before munching the crap out of it for a while and then binning it. I expected to be feeling fine and have a smooth WD and hopefully cheat/luck/plan my way out of any discomfort, but i was wrong, and it just makes me wonder how much bupe i actually had....
Theoretically i should have had close to 40mg over 48 hours with a guess of maybe half Sublingual and half oral... i don't know. i'm guessing i got between 5 and 10 mg of bupe in my system, but just didn't seem to cut it. maybe my dose was too small. I though about cutting them and soaking them but didn't bother to as i couldn't find much info on it, but it could be effective to cut it up as fine as possible, turn it almost into a powder and take it under the tongue
How are BL's experiences been with using Bupe for rapid detox. IS it effective for some of you? or is it just a really good maintenance drug?
Fate has it that you an i are on this great forum in the same thread and if you refer to my last post you'd notice that i alluded to it being hell on earth.
I'ts late where i'm from and i'm gonna have a cup of coffee and respond to your post mate. hang in there.
Look, i've got the impression that you got on subs for the right reason, 8mg 2x daily for over 2 months and then reducing quite fast. I did the same as you as i had to go to queensland with my parents for two weeks and even on the plain ride home i didn't feel over it.
The problem with Bupe is that it's so strong, and tolerance can develop like crazy on it. i've heard people say it can fuck with their tolerance permanently, or for a shitload of time. 2 n a half months isn't that bad, but the dose was way too high.
what opiates were you on before going on suboxone? and how long have you opiated? it seems your drug of choice is oycodone. how were you dosing... daily?
Sorry i know i haven't been helpful yet, I'll post again soon... oh and i didn't mean to imply that you IV i just think i got the posts mixed up.
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For the sake of harm reduction part of me thinks you can just hang it out without the OC. you seem to have a lot of willpower to go 15 days off bupe(sorry if i'm getting shit a bit wrong) the you're at the ass end. i can give you plenty on non opiate suggestions. most over the counter.... if you want them?
or another part of me always lives with me.... i've been through all sorts of cold turkey comedowns.... mainly from smack, but with others too.
I've been using opiates for 7 years and only in the last year and a half have i started to come up with a plan to beat the opiate WD.... obviously with combinations of things and an opiate or 2. planning and luck or fluke i'm managed to avoid an WD several times, but obviously it wont work in all situations. like with my earlier experience with OC WD..... that was up there with the worst... and i had Bupe!
Anyway dude, i feel bad for saying this but if i was in your situation and had a 30mg OC pill to use in low doses for relief then i would defiantly do it. About a week in from my Bupe WD My lower back pain was incredible. it felt like my spine was twisting and just relentless. i couldn't sleep for shit but i didn't fell dope sick after a week, more like slightly but just fucked back pain(the only thing i can't tolerate in cold turkey)
I should ask you first before telling you to take the OC that what symptoms do you have?
Again, this is what i would do. Seeing that bupe has fucked my tolerance i would maybe take my usual recreational dose orally and whole(if your normal rec dose is 60mg take 30mg whole orally) that way you'll be feeling normal and just the relief you have feels so liberating, as you can do the things you want to do. I don't want to even talkj to anyone in WD.
You could take the OC and use your time preparing for the remainder of the bupe WD duration... well until it becomes bearable.... you might even be lucky and beat it by taking the opiate.... i've beaten WD with H a fair few times. its like an art form, but as i said, planning is not enough. you need desert power... i mean LUCK.
So hypothetically you take the OC... are you worried that if you take it that you'll be tempted to get hooked again? is your goal abstinence? the OC wont make things worse if thats what you're worried about. not at that dose anyway.
I'd imagine you're pretty unmotivated to do anything other than tv or bed. i don't want to even use my computer when im in WD. you're almost over it, taking a small amount of OC will make you able to prepare for the remaining days of WD. I'm talking going out to get OTC medication, or even if you can't see a doctor, you could go to the hospital and they'd likely give you valium.
A list of things that might be available OTC where you are from that will help.
NsAIDS like ibuprofen, voltaren(Diclofenac) and naprogesic(naproxen) should be easy and will help. I find a combination of NsAIDS to be effective, although i dose reasonably high, it's not recommenced to take them for long period of time. Celebrex, meloxicam are also really good but might not be OTC.
Pherergan(promethazine) is an otc antihistamine wich i would be combing with 2 Nsaids at night. I'd take 50mg and then up the dose if necessary. it should help you sleep(most important in WD)
If you're in America i know you don't get OTC codeine, but i've heard a lot of reports about Immodium(Loperamide) being a godsend otc lifesaver, you should give that a try. i know it's expensive though and apparently you need a fair amount and you need to taper slowly too. ASAIK
If you have access to any opiate and if done right, you can successfully combine it and comfortably WD
IF its that bad you have 2 choices, go to hospital if you can't afford a GP or scripts or use the oxy and start preparing for the rest of your comedown good luck, hope i was of help
or another part of me always lives with me.... i've been through all sorts of cold turkey comedowns.... mainly from smack, but with others too.
I've been using opiates for 7 years and only in the last year and a half have i started to come up with a plan to beat the opiate WD.... obviously with combinations of things and an opiate or 2. planning and luck or fluke i'm managed to avoid an WD several times, but obviously it wont work in all situations. like with my earlier experience with OC WD..... that was up there with the worst... and i had Bupe!
Anyway dude, i feel bad for saying this but if i was in your situation and had a 30mg OC pill to use in low doses for relief then i would defiantly do it. About a week in from my Bupe WD My lower back pain was incredible. it felt like my spine was twisting and just relentless. i couldn't sleep for shit but i didn't fell dope sick after a week, more like slightly but just fucked back pain(the only thing i can't tolerate in cold turkey)
I should ask you first before telling you to take the OC that what symptoms do you have?
Again, this is what i would do. Seeing that bupe has fucked my tolerance i would maybe take my usual recreational dose orally and whole(if your normal rec dose is 60mg take 30mg whole orally) that way you'll be feeling normal and just the relief you have feels so liberating, as you can do the things you want to do. I don't want to even talkj to anyone in WD.
You could take the OC and use your time preparing for the remainder of the bupe WD duration... well until it becomes bearable.... you might even be lucky and beat it by taking the opiate.... i've beaten WD with H a fair few times. its like an art form, but as i said, planning is not enough. you need desert power... i mean LUCK.
So hypothetically you take the OC... are you worried that if you take it that you'll be tempted to get hooked again? is your goal abstinence? the OC wont make things worse if thats what you're worried about. not at that dose anyway.
I'd imagine you're pretty unmotivated to do anything other than tv or bed. i don't want to even use my computer when im in WD. you're almost over it, taking a small amount of OC will make you able to prepare for the remaining days of WD. I'm talking going out to get OTC medication, or even if you can't see a doctor, you could go to the hospital and they'd likely give you valium.
A list of things that might be available OTC where you are from that will help.
NsAIDS like ibuprofen, voltaren(Diclofenac) and naprogesic(naproxen) should be easy and will help. I find a combination of NsAIDS to be effective, although i dose reasonably high, it's not recommenced to take them for long period of time. Celebrex, meloxicam are also really good but might not be OTC.
Pherergan(promethazine) is an otc antihistamine wich i would be combing with 2 Nsaids at night. I'd take 50mg and then up the dose if necessary. it should help you sleep(most important in WD)
If you're in America i know you don't get OTC codeine, but i've heard a lot of reports about Immodium(Loperamide) being a godsend otc lifesaver, you should give that a try. i know it's expensive though and apparently you need a fair amount and you need to taper slowly too. ASAIK
If you have access to any opiate and if done right, you can successfully combine it and comfortably WD
IF its that bad you have 2 choices, go to hospital if you can't afford a GP or scripts or use the oxy and start preparing for the rest of your comedown good luck, hope i was of help
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Thanks so much for your reply. I already broke down and did 15mg of OC. you misunderstood a little though. I was taking around 160 mg of OC a day around 3 months ago. Ive been on 2 - 3 8mg subs taken sublingualy since. About a week and a half ago i decided i wanted off the subs so i rapidly tapered to a dose of 2mg in about a week. Last 2mg dose was on Saturday. FElt fine until monday then it hit me right now until i did the OC i hadnt slept since sunday, shakes, cold sweats, shits, vommiting, anxiety and restless limbs. 15mg of OC by no means gets me high but i feel about 75% normal right now. My question to you is will it be less painful to take 15mg of OC for a few more days, then cut it to like 7 or 8mg for a few days then cold turkey, than the bupe withrdawal cold turkey? I feel like that ould almost be withdrawal free.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I am unsure, this is exactly what I want to look into further. I know that it can be done (after micron filtering) but how safe is an unknown thing to me as of now. I want to research more, and will hopefully get around to this soon.Hey thanks heaps Captain
Brand name Subutex is ideal for micron filtering because it filters clear. It is also smaller than Suboxone. However, for whatever reason, Suboxone does break down in water quicker. I am unsure as to why this is (I put three 8mg Suboxone pills in about 1.5x as much water as I put one 8mg Subutex, and the Suboxone broke down quicker). I would prefer Subutex because it's not orange, but Suboxone being orange hasn't deterred me yet. (
) I have only used both IV though, I have yet to IM either. The naloxone does nothing IMO, the effects are equivalent. As someone else brought up, low dose antagonists have the potential to keep your tolerance at bay. I can't say whether this is true for Suboxone or not, it is probably different for different people.
yeah sorry about the IV comments got mixed up with another post.
Yeah well if your feeling 75% reduce on the opiate and combine it with OTC things i mentioned from what i've read Immodium probably help you see it out. just find a taper strategy with oxy and immodium and that might work well. you should feel well enough to go to a chemist
hope you feel better soon, i know bupe WD was my worst
Sounds good we're interested in the same thing, but i think you may be a bit more resourceful than me and look forward what you come up with
Brand name Subutex is ideal for micron filtering because it filters clear. It is also smaller than Suboxone. However, for whatever reason, Suboxone does break down in water quicker. I am unsure as to why this is (I put three 8mg Suboxone pills in about 1.5x as much water as I put one 8mg Subutex, and the Suboxone broke down quicker). I would prefer Subutex because it's not orange, but Suboxone being orange hasn't deterred me yet. (
The naloxone does nothing IMO, the effects are equivalent. As someone else brought up, low dose antagonists have the potential to keep your tolerance at bay. I can't say whether this is true for Suboxone or not, it is probably different for different people.
well if your research comes up with conclusive evidence the the orange additive doesn't pose any harm reduction issues, then i see suboxeone being desirable, unless the naloxone has a negative side effect on me. which sound's like that wont be the case. So thanks for that info mate.
Suboxone is so easy to get in melbourne because chemists allow takeaways shortly after starting a program. I've been offered it a few times, but if i looked for it i would be able to stock up on it under the radar. just for emergency's and who know's.... i might prefer it in the future, but a full agonist for me is what i want for now.
Subutex is strictly dosed at chemist under supervision so it's tight
No problem at all!
I usually IV around 2mg when I wake up then usually every 3-4 hours or so I'll do a smaller shot of around .5mg-1mg because I sttart to feel slight w/d again because I guess when you IV the sub leaves your body much quicker.
Ive been noticicing lately that right after I do a dose I'll get slightly "noddy" from it and have trouble keeping my eyes open, then an hour later I'm back to normal.
Weird
^^^^hey thanks mate it's good to know that its relatively safe to do if done with care and harm reduction be priority.
3mg a day IV'd is roughly the same as 60mg of oxcodone a day would be my guess
How do you find bupe affecting you tolerance? can you compare it at all to other op[iates? and how do you feel in the morning. i know it would suck to have to prep a shot in the morning, unless you got ampoules of it in the fridge! i can imagine snorting it would be good for a morning dose
3mg a day IV'd is roughly the same as 60mg of oxcodone a day would be my guess
How do you find bupe affecting you tolerance? can you compare it at all to other op[iates? and how do you feel in the morning. i know it would suck to have to prep a shot in the morning, unless you got ampoules of it in the fridge! i can imagine snorting it would be good for a morning dose
Ive been reading a lot of this suboxone megathread even the different versions and i wanted to but my 2 cents in.
Ive bbeen on it for almost two years and im thankful i did. I took it as perscribed a long time. just recently i started baning it. I always wanted to but was scared of the myths. it works great and last a long time. I take a quarter of a pill in the am blast it then one at night. There has been times I have done 4mg dose then an hour later blasted some dope and got really high. But i know everyone is different so thats not true for everyone. Ive never gotten headaches or anything. Ive never felt the naxalone. I strongly believe that after a while the levels of the chemicals from the pills build up and the naxalone does nothing to me anymore. I have even done bup after being on strictly opiates for some days and still did not went in to percipatated withdrawl. It could be that my doses make the naxalone very low amounts. Even when I took them sublingy I would do it the same and every time i feel a nice buzz until this very day. So i think it matters how u dose yourself and the time in between u take. I had a tolerance but the way I do I still enjoy the high day in and day out. So Im happy with it and plan on staying on it for a little longer. After getting my shit straight.
I do think suboxone affects everyone differently but using it for its intended purpose is the best. And if ur gonna shoot it do not miss it hurts youll know if u miss. Its stupid to shoot it with the risks I got wheel filters and such so Im use to it. But Ive noticed sublingual with a dry mouth and no rinsing and very little swallowing is the best of an method. There really is a practice period to taking it the best way for you. But I think everyone should give it a chance over methadone. the withdrawls for me r tolerable over a full opiate.
Ive bbeen on it for almost two years and im thankful i did. I took it as perscribed a long time. just recently i started baning it. I always wanted to but was scared of the myths. it works great and last a long time. I take a quarter of a pill in the am blast it then one at night. There has been times I have done 4mg dose then an hour later blasted some dope and got really high. But i know everyone is different so thats not true for everyone. Ive never gotten headaches or anything. Ive never felt the naxalone. I strongly believe that after a while the levels of the chemicals from the pills build up and the naxalone does nothing to me anymore. I have even done bup after being on strictly opiates for some days and still did not went in to percipatated withdrawl. It could be that my doses make the naxalone very low amounts. Even when I took them sublingy I would do it the same and every time i feel a nice buzz until this very day. So i think it matters how u dose yourself and the time in between u take. I had a tolerance but the way I do I still enjoy the high day in and day out. So Im happy with it and plan on staying on it for a little longer. After getting my shit straight.
I do think suboxone affects everyone differently but using it for its intended purpose is the best. And if ur gonna shoot it do not miss it hurts youll know if u miss. Its stupid to shoot it with the risks I got wheel filters and such so Im use to it. But Ive noticed sublingual with a dry mouth and no rinsing and very little swallowing is the best of an method. There really is a practice period to taking it the best way for you. But I think everyone should give it a chance over methadone. the withdrawls for me r tolerable over a full opiate.
Well Idk how it effects my tolerance to other opiates, but my sub tolerance def hasn't risen, at least not too much like heroin for example. But since 7 months ago when gettin on subs i havnt gone back to using opiates so idk about how my toelrance to them is now.
I feel pretty crappy when i wake up, like extremely tired. I'll have the yawns and trouble breathing while i;m fixing my shot, but nothing like waking up during heroin addiction. I'm never too sick to have trouble fixing up a shot though. If im in a hurry ill just put it under my tongue.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I have a basically reset opiate tolerance, and feel great in the morning. I don't have to prepare a shot in the morning since I micron filter, I have a solution ready at all times.
Znegative
Bluelight Crew
...back on suboxone. I feel super depressed and I'm in trouble with my family. I found that for detox, suboxone takes away about 75% of the w/d symptoms, however I still suffer occasionally from sweats, pounding headaches, and lethargy. What's worse is that I've also got bronchitus on top of it all, and have hardly been able to breath the last few days. I hate this so much..
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
You'll feel better in a few days I am sure.
Sorry to hear about having bronchitis! That must be horrible.
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