Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[fm1983]

If you dont need the whole script, you dont need to tell your dr. When you fill it, just say you can only afford so many at a time and just get how many you want. The pharmacy keeps track, so if you need more, you can go and get more till the script is gone.

When I was paying cash for my subs, I was picking up 7 pills at a time since they were so expensive.

Its probably better you keep getting a bigger script so you can save them up so you still have some to taper when youre ready and you dont have to keep going to the doc if you have a stash.

Exactly. I am prescribed 60 pills a month, and only use 1 pill a week. I just tapped in to the second script my doctor ever gave me, and that was written to me in early May. I go to the pharmacy once or twice a week, depending on cash and just buy what I need. There is no limit or time frame on how long you have to get your script.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but Purdue has a new bupe product coming out that has already been approved. It's called Butrans.

Butrans is indicated for the management of moderate to severe chronic pain in patients requiring a continuous, around-the-clock opioid analgesic for an extended period of time.

I'm not a pain patient, but thanks for the info nonetheless.

It's also a transdermal patch, which means extremely shitty bioavailability.

transdermal: 15%

Exactly. I am prescribed 60 pills a month, and only use 1 pill a week. I just tapped in to the second script my doctor ever gave me, and that was written to me in early May. I go to the pharmacy once or twice a week, depending on cash and just buy what I need. There is no limit or time frame on how long you have to get your script.

That's dependent on state laws. They vary. I know they expire in different states.

Florida is a much more lenient state if it's true they don't expire.

 

[NoRtYByN8uRe*]

how low do people go before jumping off? im down to like .3-.5 mg a day. i dose at morning and at night, sometimes also in afternoon. i wake up in the morning covered in sweat with watery eyes and restless-body syndrome. lately i've been pushing myself more, only dosing when i got the restless leg feeling in my whole body, and only taking enough to make it go away.

i think i definitely have to go lower. i know if i went to work without dosing people would start asking questions about my health. i love my job and this is the most important concern in making this transition.

dividing the dosage isn't a problem. i cut 2mg pills into quarters, crush the quarter and make 3 even piles and use 2-3 of these piles over the course of a day.

theoretically, if i continue lowering the dose closer and closer to zero, there has to be some point where the physical dependence becomes nearly non-existent, right?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

how low do people go before jumping off? im down to like .3-.5 mg a day. i dose at morning and at night, sometimes also in afternoon. i wake up in the morning covered in sweat with watery eyes and restless-body syndrome. lately i've been pushing myself more, only dosing when i got the restless leg feeling in my whole body, and only taking enough to make it go away.

i think i definitely have to go lower. i know if i went to work without dosing people would start asking questions about my health. i love my job and this is the most important concern in making this transition.

dividing the dosage isn't a problem. i cut 2mg pills into quarters, crush the quarter and make 3 even piles and use 2-3 of these piles over the course of a day.

theoretically, if i continue lowering the dose closer and closer to zero, there has to be some point where the physical dependence becomes nearly non-existent, right?

What ROA are you using? This is the same thing I would do before I started micron filtering (crushing the 2mg up).

And yes, there is a point where the physical dependence is nearly non-existent, I believe I have reached that point. I go through an 8mg pill in about a month. I wake up feeling no W/D symptoms.

 

[opiatekrzy]

32mg ceiiling dose, right.,..but our bodies dont even abosrb the whole 32mg's anyways cause of the low BA sublingual anyway..i figured u can dose away past 4

 

[Captain.Heroin]

ok so I know that bupe has been discussed a ton but i couldnt find this specific answer on the search engine. So, the ceiling dose for suboxone is 32mg right? First of all, if the sublingual bioavailability of suboxone is only like 30% or something, does that mean for every 8mg tab under the tongue one is only truly taking in 2-3mg? And is the 32mg ceiling dose in a 24hr period or what? I switched from a huge heroin tolerance to suboxone yesterday and i waited long enough so that I was pretty sick. After taking the suboxone I felt a ton better, but still some restless cramping legs and some minor chills/goosebumps. Weird since last time I started on Suboxone I felt 100%. Totally normal like id never done drugs before or something

Yes, this means about 2.6mg gets in your system. There was no question there.

There is a mega thread for BA, and it is also posted in post 1 of every Suboxone Mega Thread (see the link in my signature). In the future, post in the mega thread instead of starting your own thread.

As for how you feel, you're coming down from heroin, that's why you still have residual withdrawal symptoms. Once you are stabilized on Suboxone and stay off of heroin for a while, you'll start to feel better.

 

[cowmama]

I came off 500mg + with one 8mg and was fine. I was able to quickly lower my dose within the first couple weeks. I guess people are affected differently.

Captain- Thanks! Thats exactly what I was thinking but i was thinking about it so hard it was making me crazy! I just wanted to make sure my math was correct! I might even do only 2 pills per 30 so I could take even smaller doses.

say 15 mg to 30 ml

1ml = .5 mg
50 units= .25 mg
25 units = .12 mg (approx)

correct?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I came off 500mg + with one 8mg and was fine. I was able to quickly lower my dose within the first couple weeks. I guess people are affected differently.

Captain- Thanks! Thats exactly what I was thinking but i was thinking about it so hard it was making me crazy! I just wanted to make sure my math was correct! I might even do only 2 pills per 30 so I could take even smaller doses.

say 15 mg to 30 ml

1ml = .5 mg
50 units= .25 mg
25 units = .12 mg (approx)

correct?

Yes, that's correct.

 

[Sublimit]

I think buprenorphine is a great drug for this though, because a very small amount of buprenorphine (for me, 50 mcg or 0.05mg) can make me feel drastically better.

So would you say that your fundamentally using buprenorphine essentially as an anti-depressant?

I haven't bothered to look at an opiate conversion chart because the one that i used to use told me that 90mg of OC was the equivalent to a staggering 13.5mg of methadone

you're dosing 4 times a day? from what i've been told by professionals 1mg of buprenorphine equates to 15-20mg of oXycodone. Do you consider that to be a therapeutic dose? i'm not good at mathematics but that works out to be 4mg of OC a day or 2x2mgswollowed whole

you were saying that your tolerance resets or something? Hope u don't mind i'm just curious, but what was your highest prescribes dose on subs, aand your DOC before ORT? something tells me your name has something to do with it

I just find your success on the ort program to be quite inspirational actually....but ideally, could it be better, as in would you prefer to be on something else if it was legally possible?

I've always felt something missing. before i did any drugs. tried working on serotonin for years, and then came the self medicating. something to find myself feeling nice, normal and content followed by ambition and motivation. Heroin wasn't the answer, but it gave me everything i needed to feel truly worthy and maybe a even little arrogant, but being shy and emotional were things that have really given me the most pain which lead me down the path of perpetual anguish. i have opiates i start to remeber how to live and think about finding happiness. I rarely use, but i'm indicated opiates for pain and feel guilty when abusing them. i only just recently found the comfort in taking oxy orally


I'm prescribed opiates for pain, indicated by my knee condition. the pain's not gonna last forever because an operation should be able to get rid of most pain.

id consider bupes omnipresence background buzz but would have to keep the dose low because i'm going to travel

 

[dubSTEP]

Kicked that fucking disgusting tar and opana and got me some subs!!! This is amazing, I forgoti was withdrawing an hour ago. Idk if my doctor prescribed me too much. Me and my girlfriend were smoking a half gram of tar on a good day. He didn't even ask what I was on or how much I did. He immeditaly called the pharmacy next door and gave an order for one 8mg pill (which was $9!!)
then wrote a script for 2 8mg a day and gave me 30. This seems like a lot for my tolerance.

 

[StartedHydro]

Quick couple of questions?

How is Bupe a potent opiod but a partial agonist?

Partial agonist? Say opiod rec detects Oxy attach. The opiod rec has 4 places to attach and release dopamine, Oxy attachs to all 4, and also permits all 4 sites to release dopamine.

Bupe would also attach to all 4 opiod rec sites but instead this time 2 of the 4 sites would release dopamine? Is this a VERY VERY basic idea of a partial contrasted to full agonist?

Then where does the ceiling come in? Why can you not go over (x)mg of bupe and acheive more results?

That confuses me in relation to a potent opiod. I KNOW it is very potent I have seen opiod tolerant people take a crumb and become sick for an entire day. I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

Can anyone explain? Thanks.

 

[NoRtYByN8uRe*]

What ROA are you using? This is the same thing I would do before I started micron filtering (crushing the 2mg up).

And yes, there is a point where the physical dependence is nearly non-existent, I believe I have reached that point. I go through an 8mg pill in about a month. I wake up feeling no W/D symptoms.

up my nose.

my pupils were dilated and i was yawning every minute or so with watery eyes, and i just bumped 1/16th of a mg (62.5 micrograms) and feel pretty solid right now. thats less than half what i'd usually do. we'll see how long it holds me.

i pre-wet my nose and then send the powder up there, that way it mixes and gels up and i can make it stay there in the right spot until i feel it all kick in then force drips. i see too many people talking about "drips" 10 seconds after they blow a line and i wonder if they realize that drips that early is just good product going down your throat.

 

[dubSTEP]

Kicked that fucking disgusting tar and opana and got me some subs!!! This is amazing, I forgoti was withdrawing an hour ago. Idk if my doctor prescribed me too much. Me and my girlfriend were smoking a half gram of tar on a good day. He didn't even ask what I was on or how much I did. He immeditaly called the pharmacy next door and gave an order for one 8mg pill (which was $9!!)
then wrote a script for 2 8mg a day and gave me 30. This seems like a lot for my tolerance.

So does anyone else think that I am prescribed WAY too much?

I mean I can get high of 7 norcos (70mg of hydrocodone) and I am supposed to take 16mg of suboxone a day??? Is this crazy?

 

[karkov25]

So does anyone else think that I am prescribed WAY too much?

I mean I can get high of 7 norcos (70mg of hydrocodone) and I am supposed to take 16mg of suboxone a day??? Is this crazy?

that's insane. i can do 160-320mgs of OC when i chip and i still maintain on 1mg of suboxone.

 

[fm1983]

So does anyone else think that I am prescribed WAY too much?

I mean I can get high of 7 norcos (70mg of hydrocodone) and I am supposed to take 16mg of suboxone a day??? Is this crazy?

yeah, that's a lot. I was using upwards of 150mg of oxy daily for a couple years and I use less then .5mg daily (snorted). I still even chip (once a week) and the day after I dose high (1.25mg) and then the following days drop my dose. By the fourth day, I am literally snorting 3 crumbs of suboxone. (Note I am prescribed 16mg a day, but like I said, 1 pill (8mg) last over a week for me.)

Everyone is different, but I don't think you should have a problem with taking a much smaller daily dose, maybe in the 2mg range.

 

[fm1983]

That's dependent on state laws. They vary. I know they expire in different states.

Florida is a much more lenient state if it's true they don't expire.

Since Bupe is only a schedule 3 drug, it gives some leniency on how the script is handled and such. I can't find the info I'm looking for regarding that online, but if I do, I'll post it.

 

[Ashley26]

back on subs and its going well! I reeally don't experience any withdrawal of opiates when I take it. Stuff is so amazing.

Feeling good haven't had major cravings

 

[Captain.Heroin]

So would you say that your fundamentally using buprenorphine essentially as an anti-depressant?

Not really, I use it primarily as a pain reliever as of now, but most times more as an ADHD medication.

you're dosing 4 times a day? from what i've been told by professionals 1mg of buprenorphine equates to 15-20mg of oXycodone. Do you consider that to be a therapeutic dose? i'm not good at mathematics but that works out to be 4mg of OC a day or 2x2mgswollowed whole

I have no idea how to equate the two drugs other than how they affected me and it varies per individuals.

BTW I don't know if you're talking to me at this point so I hope you are

you were saying that your tolerance resets or something? Hope u don't mind i'm just curious, but what was your highest prescribes dose on subs, aand your DOC before ORT? something tells me your name has something to do with it

Still don't know if you're addressing me but if you are... - the most I took at first was 6mg per day sublingually. I moved onto the IV route and started higher and then tapered down as time went on. When I dropped the dose was when I stopped doing heroin and had some time to let that tolerance slowly dwindle.

I just find your success on the ort program to be quite inspirational actually....but ideally, could it be better, as in would you prefer to be on something else if it was legally possible?

No other opiates. I would prefer psychedelics to be legalized, I would prefer to have weed legalized, but I could live with opiates remaining illegal. All drugs should be legal but I don't use full agonist opiates anymore nor do I want to use them, they are no longer "desirable" to me.

I've always felt something missing. before i did any drugs. tried working on serotonin for years, and then came the self medicating. something to find myself feeling nice, normal and content followed by ambition and motivation. Heroin wasn't the answer, but it gave me everything i needed to feel truly worthy and maybe a even little arrogant, but being shy and emotional were things that have really given me the most pain which lead me down the path of perpetual anguish. i have opiates i start to remeber how to live and think about finding happiness. I rarely use, but i'm indicated opiates for pain and feel guilty when abusing them. i only just recently found the comfort in taking oxy orally

I'm prescribed opiates for pain, indicated by my knee condition. the pain's not gonna last forever because an operation should be able to get rid of most pain.

id consider bupes omnipresence background buzz but would have to keep the dose low because i'm going to travel

Sorry to hear you are in pain, what does buprenorphine do for your pain compared to oxycodone?

Quick couple of questions?

How is Bupe a potent opiod but a partial agonist?

Because potency is all about relative dosages, not about what people prefer as drugs of abuse. The amount of buprenorphine I use is < 100 mcg (I am now using 40mcg at a time). 40mcg of heroin wouldn't do anything to anyone.

Partial agonist? Say opiod rec detects Oxy attach. The opiod rec has 4 places to attach and release dopamine, Oxy attachs to all 4, and also permits all 4 sites to release dopamine.

Bupe would also attach to all 4 opiod rec sites but instead this time 2 of the 4 sites would release dopamine? Is this a VERY VERY basic idea of a partial contrasted to full agonist?

You can think of it as jimmying a lock open as opposed to using the key. It's all about how the drug molecule interacts/fits in with the receptor.

Then where does the ceiling come in? Why can you not go over (x)mg of bupe and acheive more results?

Because each drug has a unique dose/effects curve (though some drugs may not have a "curve" but a straight line) - buprenorphine's ideal effects peak early on, and doubling/quadrupling the dose will get you only slightly more effects. At one point or another, enough buprenorphine will cause antagonist-like effects that are unpleasant. When buprenorphine is used properly, this shouldn't happen.

There is only but "so high" you can get with a drug before more will only make you feel worse. Most hardened cocaine/heroin users can tell you this.

up my nose.

my pupils were dilated and i was yawning every minute or so with watery eyes, and i just bumped 1/16th of a mg (62.5 micrograms) and feel pretty solid right now. thats less than half what i'd usually do. we'll see how long it holds me.

i pre-wet my nose and then send the powder up there, that way it mixes and gels up and i can make it stay there in the right spot until i feel it all kick in then force drips. i see too many people talking about "drips" 10 seconds after they blow a line and i wonder if they realize that drips that early is just good product going down your throat.

Interesting! Glad to hear you have good effects from it. I don't snort buprenorphine so I don't know how to answer your questions but I know others can chime in because they use the ROA as well.

So does anyone else think that I am prescribed WAY too much?

I mean I can get high of 7 norcos (70mg of hydrocodone) and I am supposed to take 16mg of suboxone a day??? Is this crazy?

As others said you should try for 2mg a day (once or twice a day maybe) and see how that holds you, 16mg is a lot. I would go through 16mg maybe in...2 months or longer.

Since Bupe is only a schedule 3 drug, it gives some leniency on how the script is handled and such. I can't find the info I'm looking for regarding that online, but if I do, I'll post it.

I wish I lived in Florida, I could buy new needles at the pharmacy there. If you manage to do this in this state you must have a diabetic friend who does it for you.

back on subs and its going well! I reeally don't experience any withdrawal of opiates when I take it. Stuff is so amazing.

Feeling good haven't had major cravings

That's great Ashley! I am so glad it works really well for you. Keep us posted! What's your dose?

 

[dubSTEP]

Are headaches common on Suboxone? Should I ask about switching to Subtex?

 

[Thizzcobar]

Hey all, I've been on suboxone coming on two years, 8 mgs a day for the majority of that time. I want to get off, but naturally I'm scared shitless of the withdrawals. I've already gotten off of suboxone once before after a 6 month long OC addiction...I was on it for just about a month initially, starting at 8 mg then after two or three weeks started to taper down 2 mg every 3 days till I got to 2 mgs, then 1 mg every 3 days till I was off completely. I was completely miserable for 5 long days after that, then continued to have problems with my digestive system for another week and a half. Remembering how much that sucked, I can only imagine what it will be like getting off of it after being on it for 25 times longer than I initially was...

I was thinking about weening down 1mg every month but that would be quite a long, drawn out process. To go through as few withdrawal symptoms as possible, how slow would I have to taper? Is it possible to taper slow enough to the point that I'd have no withdrawal symptoms at all? I've talked to my psychiatrist about this but she's never been on it or had to go through the hell that is getting off of it, while I'm sure the majority of you reading this have. I also have Ambien, Adderall, and Xanax at my disposal. Thanks in advance for any advice or answers...especially if they involve a way for me to get off without moping around and complaining for months. I'm also open to any radical alternatives...anything to avoid that agony.