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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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Occasionaly i will IV my subs but the track marks almost make it not worth it. I just dont understand the people who say that injecting suboxone will cause the nalaxone to be active and result in negative effects. Not once out of the dozens of times ive injected suboxone have I had any negative experiences.
 
My Personal Side Effects on Sub:

I wasn’t able to realize any of this until I switched back to pods early yesterday just by the drastic change in my bodies “equilibrium” (I quoted that because being on drugs alone naturally your equilibrium is already going to be thrown off a degree). But it was crazy to notice in only 2 days.

Subs are great no doubt, in comparison to pods they do give you a much stronger boost in energy. Well pods don’t really give you energy at all they just numb you to fatigue in my opinion. But I always thought subs depress your CNS which depresses your blood pressure as well which was not my story. It IS possible however just because I was jumping off a poppy taper maybe being on subs for 3 weeks I was still wding to certain alkaloids in the poppy that the sub couldn’t stop. OR maybe it was due to the sub alone.. who knows?
But I googled a lot for the last few days and didn’t find enough to convince me either way. It wasn’t till I switched back to a low dose of poppy tea that I all a sudden felt 100 times better. I’m not talking about the get high factor because even though I had “fun” I thought I’d need like 40gms just to break though and another 40gms if I wanted to feel anything (which I didn’t). I only took 12gms. I’m talking about switching to sub as a form to get off a pod taper specifically. Pods were MUCH easier to taper on. Sub was not at all, it was impossible to be honest. And I think the simple explanation why is when you are tapering pods and plan to switch to sub to finish a taper you are throwing off your bodies entire equilibrium from the other 48 alkaloids in the plant and it makes it wayyy harder.
I also think tapering on sub alone might just be too “hardcore” for certain people. I mean pods seem to work great for covering up wds I was expecting from sub, AND I’m motivated to drop doses again. Its just so much smoother and less traumatic with pods.

(my point)

I had SEVERE side effects on sub. I had no idea why my blood pressure was so high on it. I felt perfectly fine in terms of not experiencing any wds. But I experienced other things that’s making me go back to pods to finish the taper.

I ALWAYS FELT HOT AND STICKY AND OUT OF BREATH

My skin honestly seemed to be sweating syrup on suboxone. It was always sticky no matter how many times I showered. After an hour it would just slowly start getting sticky again. To the point where papers were ALWAYS sticking to my arms. This is actually what made me really become aware of it at first. I did NOT think it was sub doing this at all but it lasted for the 3 weeks I was on it and just stopped yesterday after going back to a low dose of pods. It made me obsessive about cleaning myself but I never seemed to feel clean, very weird. My crazy theory on this is sub constipates and bloats people SO SEVERELY that toxins are forced through their bloodstream and out their skin pores. As they are not shitting so where else is it going? Yes that’s right you’ve read it here on BL.. sub makes you shit through your pores lol.

EVEN THOUGH I FELT CALM I ALWAYS FELT LIKE I WANTED TO MOVE/SHAKE

This was weird too and again I just associated it to the jumping off pods. But it actually seemed to be more a side effect of the sub as when tapering off pods I DO NOT remember any of these things happening at all.
I’d feel like I could keep my body still but like I always needed to shake or move my head or just always be doing something. Almost like speed but in a very elusive diluted manner. My blood pressure ALWAYS felt like it was going through the roof but I still felt like my body was “calm”. It was like this weird duality of both that often made me confused about what to do with myself. I just didn’t feel “right” on sub even though I thought I felt right. Its hard to explain but it just feels dirty, and pods seem so much cleaner.

SUB HAS A STRONG BACKLASH OF FATIGUE WHILE TAPERING

Possibly its due to the unwelcomed overstimulation sub provides at first. And pods DO make you tired while tapering off them don’t get me wrong. But WOW every time I dropped the dose just a bit I was a zombie all day. I didn’t want to move or do anything and instantly realized they were very different from pods. This aspect of extreme lethargy and fatigue makes me glow at the idea of tapering with pods. The tired factor is much less severe. I already took ¾ my dose of tea yesterday and still feel perfect. I actually feel much healthier too. I KNOW I’ll feel a bit of fatigue dropping pods but its really nothing at all imo like dropping sub.

SUBS GAVE ME MY FIRST 3 EXPERIENCES WITH MIGRAINES

I did not go to a doctor because when they happened I’d usually find a bed fast and close my eyes. Even though the immense head pain stopped me from any sort of sleep, I’d just sit there rubbing and knuckling my head for hours. If I opened my eyes I’d also release tears from a sort of involuntary pain response to the pressure in my head. I’ve never had a “headache” so severe in my life and it happened exactly 3 times in 3 weeks. One lasted about a day and a half, another one got better over night. Than another happened in the morning and got better by 10pm. ALL were horrific experiences. But I’d go right back to my low dose of sub and tell myself something else was causing them.

Well they never happened on pods and neither when I was tapering the pods. It had to be the sub, and I’m sure for the rest of my pod taper they won’t happen. My theory on the migraines is overtime if you dose on a strict 24 hour plan the half life builds up in your body over the course of a week or so (it seemed once a week almost at perfect intervals for me, always around the weekend). But I think as the half-life builds up so does the bloating and constipation. I think your body either overloads with undigested food toxins/bacteria which causes the migraine OR its your brains weird way of moving the half life build up from the body. I mean sub can’t just keep building up in your blood how does it get out? Again I’m just randomly guessing out loud but the headaches can also be from people coming down from their sub doses, and blood pressure rising in response towards the end of the day (if you morning dose). As for me I’d feel an increase in blood pressure right after I took it and it just seemed to intensify till nighttime at which point I got too worn out and tired to feel anymore.

AS FOR THE GOOD

Don’t get me wrong I love the way subs allow me to smile and enjoy life even on small doses. I love the way it makes me talk nonstop and feel extremely confident inside. I love how empathetic and receptive it makes me. It does an excellent job treating wds. It has a lot going for it but in all honesty I can’t figure out why it felt a thousand times harder to taper. I realize now how bad it was making me feel in other ways and pods just seem like a much better idea for tapering. Maybe its also a good idea that people trying to taper subs just be aware that pods might actually make it easier. Maybe it’s the form (plants vs pill) that makes the taper easier but subs really felt dirty and had some serious other crap going on that made me vote them out. I’m ONLY mentioning all of this just for information sake. I’m obviously bored but I’m hoping people will be able to mirror my experiences or maybe it’ll just stir some thoughts. Otherwise I just wanted it out there in the sub thread.
 
^I really wouldn't recommend anyone switch to bupe to taper, especially since it doesn't fully substitute for the opiate it is replacing. If you just continued to taper with the drug you were already on, you wouldn't have been putting your body through two transitions at once: the transfer to bupe, and the taper itself. Since you were on poppies, which have an incredibly long action, continuing the poppies certainly would be the easiest way to taper!

Bupe is really best used as a maintenance drug, IMO (also, from the discussion on here)... People that are on bupe actually have much better success switching to a short-acting full agonists for the quitting stage because the withdrawals from bupe are so prolonged.

Sorry to hear that your taper was not as easy as it could have been!
 
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just got drug tested at my clinic

Hey everyone I have been looking for a spot online to talk to people about suboxone and this looks like the best place but I dont really know how to use the forums this is my first post on here but ill give it a try. I have been on subs now for about 8 months and its been really good I have insurance so that helps but the very first visit to the clinic cost a lot of money I had a 900 dollar drug test and it was the kind you buy at cvs. After my first visit I never got another drug test until my last visit and It might have been because I got mad when the guy told me I had a 150 dollar balance and they wouldnt be able to see me today if I didnt pay it I swear that guy just gets off when he says that to people. So i got all mad and said I paid 50 the last two visits and im here for like 20 minutes what am i paying for for you to take my blood pressure. So i think he went and told them to drug test me because i never got one before. I have been taking my subs like the doctor tells me the only thing I might do is take a extra quarter or half of one sometimes but I smoke a lot of weed and i was smoking it every day for 5 years before I got on the subs. So for the 8 months ive been on the subs Ive been able to smoke weed and it helps alot because it keeps me from going and getting me some real painkillers. So I went and pissed in the cup and the whole time i was sitting in the room wating for the doctor i thought i was going to get kicked out but he came in and said "as long as were doing this we better do it right no half ass" so i said i would get off it. Then all went well and he gave me my script and talked about how we would lower my dose next visit as we had been planning. So I wanted to know from everyone will I get drug tested next visit so he can see i got off the weed the drug test they give me isnt fancy i piss in a little plastic cup and im pretty sure they use the little stick thing because I heard one of them say "marijuana came up in 2 minutes" so i think it was a 5 panel thing or whatever it is. So has anyone had this happen to them I hate it that i got tested when i never got one before and it would suck to get kicked out i wouldnt know what to do without my subs and weed every time i dont have weed i want painpills and xanax.
 
^^^^ mike, you could try to use paragraphs to space out your text so that it makes it easier to read.

i know your situation man. i actually used subs to get off weed as i was smoking everyday back when i was on it. It seemed really easy for me to not even think about other o[iates because of the subs. i don't know if it was just because mentally i knew that it's pointless to use other opiates or that it satisfied my opiate cravings, but i don't get that with oxycodone.

So not using any other opiates wasn't a challenge for me on subs. Weed was a huge challenge, but i sort of tried to look at it in a certain way.... i tricked my mind into thinking that weed was like heroin and that i was on subs to stop smoking weed... of course i knew that i'd still get stoned from smoking weed, but i tried to get over the psychological barrier i had with weed by using psychology to fight it... if that makes sense.

lets face it... cannabis is 95% psychological and 5% physical. anyone who is on methadone can still use another opiate on top, but it defeats the whole point of being on MMT and thats the way i looked at it. opiates weren't a factor while on subs, so it gave me all the mental strength i needed to help me stop smoking weed... and believe me, you need all the mental strength you can get if you wanna kick cannabis. now i enjoy smoking a few joints a week, even though it's still got a bit of a hold on me.
 
My bad ill use paragraphs but man this sucks now that I got drug tested Ive been smoking weed every day forever. I dont know if hell kick me out if i fail another test for weed that would suck so I want to quit this month but Its going to be so hard.

I think I can clean myself out a day or two before I go in but it might take the suboxone out as well. Although I do think he uses a 5 panel drug test so it might not come up.
 

morning everyone....
Can you try and talk to your doctor about slowing down the puffing? After all your not on the program for weed your there to get off opiates and so far you have done well. Sounds like the Suboxone is helping you the way you hoped it would.

Alls I know is weed hangs around for a long time in your system and if they are looking for it they will find it even after a month. Try talking to him about how it has been help keeping you from using hard drugs which you are afraid of doing. Appeal to his Hippocratic oath taking side.
 
Bojangles you say you were only on subs for 3 weeks

I am on subs and have been for about 9 weeks and I remember well the first 3. I had a regular interval headache, somedays worse than others, but it was there like clockwork everyday for like 1 and1/2 - 2 weeks. Wouldn't call it a migraine but certainly uncomfortable. I had to go on a Motrin bender for the duration to cope with normal activities.

That is all behind me now, no headaches, no constipation and no sugar sweats. Maybe it was the short term use for you. The first weeks are where your dosing and comfort levels are part of the evaluation stage.
I got on subs coming off a different opiate (oxycodone heavy use) so I can't compare symptoms there but I do know that insomnia, headaches and a feeling of discomfort were there (bigtime) in the early stages of sub treatment. Also I am not tapering yet, but I am playing with my dosing intervals and ROA on my own.

Sorry subs made you feel "sub"-par.
 
cheshire thanks for the reply,yea i think i can talk to him about it I have been a good patient until that one time i got mad so i think that guy told the doc to test me because I wasnt acting like my normal self. I was on 2 a day for awhile then we went to 1 and 3 quarters and he wants to go down more when I havent even been on it for the same amount of time as i was with the two a day.

Also the doctor barely even knows who I am one time he asked how many i was taking and i said 1 and a quarter when it was 1 and 3 quarters I just had a brain malfunction and he didnt even notice the mistake he went on and said so how many would that be i said 53 and he said not if its 1 and a quarter and then thats when i corrected myself. So basically he doesnt even look at my sheet before he comes into the room.

I need the weed because It keeps me from getting some other painkiller when something sets me off,which a lot of things can that like when im watching tv and I see some guy all fucked up on dope and im like fuck i remember how good that feels or one of my friends will talk about how they got some good shit last night. A lot of things will set me off and ill want some stuff and then my good ol weed will help me out.
 
Cheshire said:
Bojangles you say you were only on subs for 3 weeks

I am on subs and have been for about 9 weeks and I remember well the first 3. I had a regular interval headache, somedays worse than others, but it was there like clockwork everyday for like 1 and1/2 - 2 weeks. Wouldn't call it a migraine but certainly uncomfortable. I had to go on a Motrin bender for the duration to cope with normal activities.

That is all behind me now, no headaches, no constipation and no sugar sweats. Maybe it was the short term use for you. The first weeks are where your dosing and comfort levels are part of the evaluation stage.
I got on subs coming off a different opiate (oxycodone heavy use) so I can't compare symptoms there but I do know that insomnia, headaches and a feeling of discomfort were there (bigtime) in the early stages of sub treatment. Also I am not tapering yet, but I am playing with my dosing intervals and ROA on my own.

Sorry subs made you feel "sub"-par.
Click to expand...

Yeh wow I never really looked at it from that long term perspective I guess.

I thought any weird initial side effects I would have got would have been over after like the first week but biologically speaking that wouldn't make a lot of sense as it takes the body time to adjust to anything.

What I DO know though is the final 3rd "headache" I got, maybe its not a true migraine but if migraines are any worse than how I was feeling they have to be one of the most painful things in the world. It was the last day on the cruise and rather then go see some ship entertainment I was bed ridden the whole day. I guess kinda like getting gravely sick on booze and than you lose the urge to drink type situation.

I still do not look at subs though with a bad eye. They are a godsend for some of what they do and I managed to put on a few lbs of muscle with all the energy at the gym and the appetite they gave me. I still have a few subs left that I'm sure I may use months down the road long after my pod taper but my main goal is just breaking this physical addiction once and for all. Even with any turmoil I experience now just that fact that I have a true desire to be clean is one of the hugest things in my life now.
I never had the slighest degree of control over my habit and now I get off on tapering like nothing else. Its a high all in itself realizing you have the will power to turn off your need for instant gratification. Its not that I'm just realizing how an addiction works, its that I'm finally believing an addict can control their behavoir when they REALLY want to, and thats a great feeling all by itself. Thanks for the feedback!
 
mike_indy_317 said:
My bad ill use paragraphs but man this sucks now that I got drug tested Ive been smoking weed every day forever. I dont know if hell kick me out if i fail another test for weed that would suck so I want to quit this month but Its going to be so hard.

I think I can clean myself out a day or two before I go in but it might take the suboxone out as well. Although I do think he uses a 5 panel drug test so it might not come up.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you need to find a new / realistic Suboxone doctor.

They DO exist.. I hate to say "go Dr. Shopping" but in this day and age you really have no choice. I've seen sub Dr's that charge from between $100.00 - $1100.00 for an initial visit. They are all over the map, it's crazy. AND I have probably the best insurance you can get these days.

Most likely you'll just be switching from one moron to another (I have absolutely no faith in Dr's - they just don't care) but maybe you'll find one with half a brain this time.

BTW - If you smoke chronically it's going to take a good 2-4 weeks to test clean. (depending on your metabolism and your body weight)

Best of luck to you.
 
First of all---mike, I would def suggest talking to your DR about the weed, just straight up. He'll more than likely just tell you to stop, if he cares at all(and obviously he already knows about it, from drug test). Weed is becoming much more accepted these days...as someone else stated, appeal to the "doctor" in him: Tell him about how it keeps you on your maintenance, and how it's really in yours/his best interest to keep smoking.

Second, my main reason for posting here today:
I have a pretty regular opiate habit, but it's nothing too insane in dosages(from about 60-120 mg morphine, or 60-75 mg of oxycodone)...I enjoy suboxone recreationally, and have done it before--luckily, at the time, I had weaned myself from morphine already for a few days prior, and took the sub with no Precip. WD's. Well, I grabbed a few sub's again yesterday to take starting today(recreationally, not maintained), so I was just gonna dose the morph once at 3:30pm-ish yesterday(Took about 80mgs Morphine, wouldve been about 26 hours ago), but took one more little bump at about midnight last night(only 15mgs IR morph, about 17 hours ago)...

For my sub's, I usually just snort about 2-3mg, and I'm fuckin high(keep in mind, I can still get a nod from about 40-60mg OxyContin if snorted in short duration--also, that subs work better in lower doses). Now, the problem is, I don't usually go into withdrawals for about 30-36 hours, and usually only mildly(mild trouble sleeping, a bit of "cognitive dissonance" so to speak, no cold sweats, pretty mild stomach issues)...If I dose this sub in the next hour or two, will that last bit(15mg morphIR T+17.00) be enough to make the difference in precip WDs?
Thanks in advance for any answer...if I dont hear back in an hour or two I'm gonna go for a little bit, should be straight but I can't find many definitive answers on this, other than 24+hrs but I know that's for full, regular doses.
 
DigThatFunk said:
If I dose this sub in the next hour or two, will that last bit(15mg morphIR T+17.00) be enough to make the difference in precip WDs? Thanks in advance for any answer...if I dont hear back in an hour or two I'm gonna go for a little bit, should be straight but I can't find many definitive answers on this, other than 24+hrs but I know that's for full, regular doses.
Click to expand...

You will be perfectly fine. I took 200MG MS Contin and about 12-15 hrs. Later (before even feeling sick at all) I took 2MG Suboxone. (in-sufflated, my new favorite ROA considering it's almost impossible to dose so low w/o IV'ing)

I usually take 4-12 mgs sub per day (Sublingually.)

Prior to taking the MSContin I lowered my intake of subs to 1-2 mg's for two days.

No issues at all -- But that's just me.

Have Fun!!
 
goddamn son! that's crazy you didn't get any WD's from that, from what I've read thats enough/soon enough after that some people would get it from that. But, thanks for the answer brother, figured I'd be cool but wanted to hear from someone with similar experience. I'm about to rail a bit, just in time for the end of this episode of Doctor Who haha(best show to watch fucked up, ever? possibly.). Here we go!

quick edit: oh, and hey man...if you're interested in taking small doses of suboxone without IVing, check out sixpartsevens method, it concerns using (very minute amounts of) alcohol along with sublingual administration, and for most people work's even better than snorting. I still like to bump it myself(ahh psychology) but my buddy I got some subs for tried reg sublingual the first day, and took like half the dose sublingually the second day, using the method, and was more intoxicated on day 2 with half the dose. I'll edit again in a sec with a link to the post.

edit 2: lol, hurrr durrr the link was at the beginning of the thread... here I am searching all over for it haha. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=404947
 
DigThatFunk said:
goddamn son! that's crazy you didn't get any WD's from that, from what I've read thats enough/soon enough after that some people would get it from that. But, thanks for the answer brother, figured I'd be cool but wanted to hear from someone with similar experience. I'm about to rail a bit, just in time for the end of this episode of Doctor Who haha(best show to watch fucked up, ever? possibly.). Here we go!

quick edit: oh, and hey man...if you're interested in taking small doses of suboxone without IVing, check out sixpartsevens method, it concerns using (very minute amounts of) alcohol along with sublingual administration, and for most people work's even better than snorting. I still like to bump it myself ahh psychology) but my buddy I got some subs for tried reg sublingual the first day, and took like half the dose sublingually the second day, using the method, and was more intoxicated on day 2 with half the dose. I'll edit again in a sec with a link to the post.
Click to expand...

As you were, I was a bit worried about taking the subs so close to the MS (esp. since it was time release!) so I just started with about 1/2mg Sub. I didn't have any issues after about 30-40 minutes so took another 1.5mg. No problems.

Before my subs induction I had 500MG's of codeine about six hrs before the doc shoved 8MG subs under my tongue. No issues then, either.. of course that's a much shorter acting opiate, but again I had no problems.

I read SixPartSevens method of using alcohol to increase absorption sublingually, but I haven't tried it yet. It makes sense, just doesn't sound pleasant to do @ 6:00AM. I'm also trying to get my hands on a bottle of Everclear. (Just a quick jump across the border for that though.) I HATE having that tab under my tongue regardless so that's probably another reason I probably haven't tried it yet. (Not to mention the psychological satisfaction of sniffing the subs - I used to really like coke.) Thanks for the info though - I know there are tons of people that will read this post and look it up. :)

Most people just jump to the last page and start from there anyways. hahah

Have Fun!!!
 
Yes, using a small amount of ethanol with your Suboxone tablets can raise the bio availability of the tabs up to 70% some studies suggest

For me it works great, a few drops of vodka or whatever ethanol you have on hand (40% works just fine) and it makes your subs at least twice as powerful

Give it a try sometime, its super easy and it doesnt taste as bad as it sounds
 
Drifter74 said:
As you were, I was a bit worried about taking the subs so close to the MS (esp. since it was time release!) so I just started with about 1/2mg Sub. I didn't have any issues after about 30-40 minutes so took another 1.5mg. No problems.

Before my subs induction I had 500MG's of codeine about six hrs before the doc shoved 8MG subs under my tongue. No issues then, either.. of course that's a much shorter acting opiate, but again I had no problems.

I read SixPartSevens method of using alcohol to increase absorption sublingually, but I haven't tried it yet. It makes sense, just doesn't sound pleasant to do @ 6:00AM. I'm also trying to get my hands on a bottle of Everclear. (Just a quick jump across the border for that though.) I HATE having that tab under my tongue regardless so that's probably another reason I probably haven't tried it yet. (Not to mention the psychological satisfaction of sniffing the subs - I used to really like coke.) Thanks for the info though - I know there are tons of people that will read this post and look it up. :)

Most people just jump to the last page and start from there anyways. hahah

Have Fun!!!
Click to expand...

Hey-first of all, thanks for easing my mind a bit. I went ahead and railed like ~3mgs or so, and I'm feelin' good...about to be even better after a bowl of fine nugs lol. Second, while the stronger alcohols will work the best, as long as it's at least like ~35-40%(70-80 proof), it will do the trick(at least, better than nothing). My buddy's done it a few times now and just uses 40% ron rico spiced, brown rum and it works fine. So if you absolutely can't get everclear, just go for strong vodka. But I hear you on the psychology of sniffing, it's the reason I haven't done the suboxone sublingually, despite having alcohol right there lol.
 
jamesBrown said:
Occasionaly i will IV my subs but the track marks almost make it not worth it. I just dont understand the people who say that injecting suboxone will cause the nalaxone to be active and result in negative effects. Not once out of the dozens of times ive injected suboxone have I had any negative experiences.
Click to expand...

It's a myth perpetrated by R&B to get Suboxone approved for CIII with the FDA. The FDA believed the lie because they are all anti-drug people, not IV users.

Naloxone is inert within Suboxone with any ROA.

What kind of gauges are you using to hate the track marks? I barely get any marks from a 31g needle tip.
 
Im new to the board here but I have been on suboxone for about 8 months and i have been taken it like the doctor asks. Under the tounge I dont shoot it only because i got scared that i messed my arms up when i did shoot up other stuff.It still bothers me, sometimes I think i messed them up.

So i was on 2 a day 8 mgs for 5 months and now i have been on 1 and a quarter for 3 months and now he wants to go down to 1 and a half next month and wants the marijuana out of my system then too. I really dont want to go down more and its because i havent been taking 1 and a quarter every day sometimes i slip up and take the extra quarter or half.

I dont know why he wants to get rid of me so fast its not like im bothering him i go there once a month and im there for 20 minutes. Im just scared about going to 1 and half because ill take more then i should then ill run out and that always sucks i dont feel right without it its not like withdrawls its something diffrent for me its like depressing and im really weak.
 
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