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Opioids SR-17018 Is the future of opioid detox medication. Painless easy cheat to avoid withdrawal that is too good to be true, but it is legit and real.

The piperidine moiety is found in many classes of opioid. Morphine has a piperidine ring (D ring), for example as do all of the related penanthracene, benzomorphans and morphinans. Then obviously all of the phenylpiperidine i.e. eveything from pethidine to phenoperidine by way of all fentanyl deriatives.

Happy holiday!
 
The piperidine moiety is found in many classes of opioid. Morphine has a piperidine ring (D ring), for example as do all of the related penanthracene, benzomorphans and morphinans. Then obviously all of the phenylpiperidine i.e. eveything from pethidine to phenoperidine by way of all fentanyl deriatives.

Happy holiday!
Fair enough... but I still find it strange that they based the lions share of efficacy by the intensity/frequency of itching observed. FFS, we really cant explain why happens in humans.

For pain management I would have to agree that SR efficacy is just as poor as Bupe. You're not gonna be able to deviate from that full agonist structure and come up with anything worth of shit. Now if the scope of the study was to discover better OUD medication...

SR would blow everything out of the water. But as I always say- there's no money in cures, just treatment.
 
I beleve I also pointed out that there are already a biased MOR agonist in use - Oliceridine (Olinvyk™) and the related tegileridine (Aisute™) and both appear reasonaby potent although the duration of action may mean modified-release formulations are of greater utility.

I'm pretty sure new antibiotics (as an example) still have the potential to be blockbusters and are cures. Assuming evergreening of a new medication, one can seek profit by assuming a medication will be prescribed for a long time and/or one can profit by assuming a medication will be prescribed widely. But even with evergreening, there are business models that are based on finding 'me-too'* drugs.

But I accept that there are many cases in which alternatives to medication are better and safer. The reason they aren't more commonly used are cost and lack of patient complience. In the UK less than 50% of prescribed medicines are taken as instructed. So for them to be chosen over diet/lifestyle/exercise/therapy is usually not cost, it's lack of patient complience. For some forms of mental illness, therapy is often better than medication but in this case cost IS the main driver.

*This is still the term used, I did wonder if someone had introduced something a little less obvious, but it seems not.
 
I beleve I also pointed out that there are already a biased MOR agonist in use - Oliceridine (Olinvyk™) and the related tegileridine (Aisute™) and both appear reasonaby potent although the duration of action may mean modified-release formulations are of greater utility.

I'm pretty sure new antibiotics (as an example) still have the potential to be blockbusters and are cures. Assuming evergreening of a new medication, one can seek profit by assuming a medication will be prescribed for a long time and/or one can profit by assuming a medication will be prescribed widely. But even with evergreening, there are business models that are based on finding 'me-too'* drugs.

But I accept that there are many cases in which alternatives to medication are better and safer. The reason they aren't more commonly used are cost and lack of patient complience. In the UK less than 50% of prescribed medicines are taken as instructed. So for them to be chosen over diet/lifestyle/exercise/therapy is usually not cost, it's lack of patient complience. For some forms of mental illness, therapy is often better than medication but in this case cost IS the main driver.

*This is still the term used, I did wonder if someone had introduced something a little less obvious, but it seems not.
Yeah, TRV130 was given the green light a few years ago as biased MOR. It never seemed all that impressive though.

Have you had a chance to look at orexin antagonist SB-334867? Pretty Rad stuff..

"The findings indicate that the administration of OXR antagonists reduces drug dependence. OXR blockers seem to counteract the addictive effects of drugs through multiple mechanisms, such as preventing neuronal adaptation. This review proposes the potential clinical use of OXR antagonists in the treatment of drug dependence." - The Role of Orexin Receptor Antagonists in Inhibiting Drug Addition: A Review Article

Yeah people are dumb as fuck and incredible intolerable with medical compliance, especially if it's just mediocre efficacy. I think the exception would be OUD patients though, I bet they're numbers are in the high 90's...LOL. Despite the success rate of bupe at 40% after 12 months. It's a market that has been primed for ages and shit on by the medical community until recently. Still has a long way to go

If you can't tell... I REALLY dont like the orange stuff. Precipitated withdrawals broke that camel's backside
 

I believe this is the same academic paper as linked to in the above post, but this link has no paywall.

It's interesting. Nature also has an anrticle on the subject:

 
They were drinking the kool-aid and getting hyped because of the unexplained "repair"mechanism being observed in the mice studies.

Then shitcanned the project abruptly claiming the shit slinger's weren't itching their asses enough.... "Our findings reveal that in vivo apparent low efficacy of SR-17018 is similar to that of a MOP partial agonist buprenorphine..."

Two issues here...

First being the 300mg "equivalent" dose was salted out (with sulfonic or fumuric I cant remember) and injected into the spine. Despite earlier findings exhibiting higher efficacy of the freebase .

And two- Histamine reactions are indicative of poppy derivatives. Brorphine and its analalogs are derived from PIPERIDINE..

Le bullshit. But whatever, it would have never knocked bupe off the hill anyway.

HAPPY TURKEY DAY!
I think bupe still has a place to provide stability for addicts. But SR-17018 is perfect for when someone is ready to jump off from bupe, because for some of us it is extremely difficult to get off of Suboxone after months or years stable on it.
 
I think bupe still has a place to provide stability for addicts. But SR-17018 is perfect for when someone is ready to jump off from bupe, because for some of us it is extremely difficult to get off of Suboxone after months or years stable on it.

Bupe's efficacy as a maintenance opiod is engineered hand-in-hand with its high signaling activity on the b~arrestin pathway(the reason for withdrawals). I mean, it's a helluva drug to maintain an opioid addiction... with helluva withdrawal profile attached to it. They designed it that way so people would have a hard time putting it down. Ergo, making pharmaceutical companies more money.

I 100% agree that it could help people get off bupe. Furthermore, I argue that its efficacy as a "maintenance" opioid is equal to or even greater than that of bupe. And not only that, but stability is achieved much faster, and tapering duration much shorter because it does not activate the b~arrestin pathway. Essentially eliminating the need for ol' orange altogether. But because of that., it's not a money maker. Therefore no promotional value.

C.R.E.A.M., Dolla dolla bills y'all
 
Bupe's efficacy as a maintenance opiod is engineered hand-in-hand with its high signaling activity on the b~arrestin pathway(the reason for withdrawals). I mean, it's a helluva drug to maintain an opioid addiction... with helluva withdrawal profile attached to it. They designed it that way so people would have a hard time putting it down. Ergo, making pharmaceutical companies more money.

I 100% agree that it could help people get off bupe. Furthermore, I argue that its efficacy as a "maintenance" opioid is equal to or even greater than that of bupe. And not only that, but stability is achieved much faster, and tapering duration much shorter because it does not activate the b~arrestin pathway. Essentially eliminating the need for ol' orange altogether. But because of that., it's not a money maker. Therefore no promotional value.

C.R.E.A.M., Dolla dolla bills y'all
Suboxone is also G-protein biased. That's why it doesn't cause respiratory depression
 
Suboxone is also G-protein biased. That's why it doesn't cause respiratory depression
Modified protein based peptides are all the rage. Look at how many ppl are on GLP-1 signalers now for weight loss. They are playing God with some of these compounds, lol. They are even developing OXR-blockers which show promising efficacy for GPCR spectrums, ranging from pain management to addiction/alcoholism.

Like I was saying though, despite all these wonderful promising medications which could help billions... if it ain't gonna make money, they don't give a shit. I mean, I get it. You got lotta R&D invested, but goddamn can we get a little philanthropy?
 
I’ve been fascinated by this compound for quite a while now. I was on suboxone for roughly a decade straight. A few months ago I went to rehab to detox off of benzos once again. I was in a state of ineffable discomfort and requested to switch from suboxone to methadone.

I knew it was a decision I’d come to regret and regret I did. I just wanted something to help my benzo withdrawals and while it did alleviate them, it only was perceptible the first few days.

Now I’m stuck on 120mg of methadone and want to go back to Suboxone. I’m already decreasing my dose gradually (10mg per 2 weeks). Methadone is one of the toughest opioids to detox from, but if I’m able to slowly get down to 40mg, when could I start using sr-17018?
 
Suboxone is a brand-name for a compound medication containing buprenorphine and naloxone is it not? The theory being that naloxone is only active when consumed parentherally so it's included to stop users snorting or injecting the drug, I am led to understand.

It might even be earlier in this thread but I linked to every paper on SR-17018 that I could find. It was compared to buprenorphine in primate models and I believe the latter was deemed to be slightly more effective. But the KEY detail being that both drugs were only used in studies lasting a couple of weeks which is how buprenorphine was originally deemed to be most effective in detoxification.

Others have mentioned that the super high-doses and unlimited duration of buprenorphine medication is to prevent people consuming other opioids.

All I can say to that is that several large carfentanil labs have been found in Canada and carfentanil has such strong affinity for the MOR that while buprenorphine will still compete, it won't do so on a reasonable basis. In essence carfentanil will break through the blockade. Now I don't know if the presence of high-dose buprenorphine will dull the effects of carfentanil but it seems nobody is really studying the effects of carfentanil in man.

For my money anything as potent as carfentanil (x30000 M) should be legally considered a WMD but I don't think even that will stop the sort of person who can live with themselves knowing they are killing others. Some of the nitazenes will likely also break through a buprenorphine blockade but many of the homologues to appear on the street are unknown to science so we know NOTHING about them.

But put simply, I think the increased use of buprenorphine is a response to fentanyl so as night follows day, the fentanyl manufacturers can simply swap to something that renders buprenorphine useless or at best of far less value.

I think anyone with knowledge of the various opioids would have predicted carfentanil turning up as Grisham's Law plays out in an illegal market. But it seems that in the US in particular, a LOT of money is being spent promoting buprenorphine but if someone can just buy carfentanil when they want to get high, it's not going to be as valuable as a treatment.

There is a Chinese developed buprenorphine homologue called thienorphine (if memory serves) and that likely WILL blockade even carfentanil. But thienorphine is still under patent whereas buprenorphine is not (althugh the various formulations ARE).
 
I hope you took in the KEY point - it may well be of great utility in helping people to stop using opioids but it's almost certainly only of utility if used for a couple of weeks. Like I said with buprenorphine - THAT was what the 1970s studies showed. Of short-term utility. But when the patent ended - people are now being parked on buprenorphine just like they used to be parked on methadone.

But do post and do let us know how it goes and indeed if it works a second time. Because as statesd, getting people drug free is only the beginning of the struggle. I'm still keen to know where that 90% figure comes from - so I can read it!
Does everything need a research paper?
Yeah, no one has ever faked them before, lol.
 
Suboxone is a brand-name for a compound medication containing buprenorphine and naloxone is it not? The theory being that naloxone is only active when consumed parentherally so it's included to stop users snorting or injecting the drug, I am led to understand.

It might even be earlier in this thread but I linked to every paper on SR-17018 that I could find. It was compared to buprenorphine in primate models and I believe the latter was deemed to be slightly more effective. But the KEY detail being that both drugs were only used in studies lasting a couple of weeks which is how buprenorphine was originally deemed to be most effective in detoxification.

Others have mentioned that the super high-doses and unlimited duration of buprenorphine medication is to prevent people consuming other opioids.

All I can say to that is that several large carfentanil labs have been found in Canada and carfentanil has such strong affinity for the MOR that while buprenorphine will still compete, it won't do so on a reasonable basis. In essence carfentanil will break through the blockade. Now I don't know if the presence of high-dose buprenorphine will dull the effects of carfentanil but it seems nobody is really studying the effects of carfentanil in man.

For my money anything as potent as carfentanil (x30000 M) should be legally considered a WMD but I don't think even that will stop the sort of person who can live with themselves knowing they are killing others. Some of the nitazenes will likely also break through a buprenorphine blockade but many of the homologues to appear on the street are unknown to science so we know NOTHING about them.

But put simply, I think the increased use of buprenorphine is a response to fentanyl so as night follows day, the fentanyl manufacturers can simply swap to something that renders buprenorphine useless or at best of far less value.

I think anyone with knowledge of the various opioids would have predicted carfentanil turning up as Grisham's Law plays out in an illegal market. But it seems that in the US in particular, a LOT of money is being spent promoting buprenorphine but if someone can just buy carfentanil when they want to get high, it's not going to be as valuable as a treatment.

There is a Chinese developed buprenorphine homologue called thienorphine (if memory serves) and that likely WILL blockade even carfentanil. But thienorphine is still under patent whereas buprenorphine is not (althugh the various formulations ARE).
Carfentanil, is a useful drug for knocking out elephants, for relocation to wildlife preserves. Also, it is used for veterinary anesthesia for very large animals.

WMD? No it is not a nuclear weapon, or as useless as biological and chemical weapons; in that, carfentanil has legitimate medicinal uses.

For huge animals. Usually they don't have to dart, 1000 lbs plus humans, to get them to the hospital.lol

Usually knocking down a wall , a forklift, a bunch of firefighters, and a cargo truck are all that is needed.lol

Why test it on man. 2mg per 2000lbs of elephant for anesthesia. Yeah, that doesn't seem like a drug that will ever be approved for use on humans.

Besides, the American DEA has already concluded that it is only for veterinary use in large animals, only.

I doubt any countries are going to try to find a medical use, for humans with this drug.
 
Does everything need a research paper?
Yeah, no one has ever faked them before, lol.

I feel that the assertion that reference is unimportant to be telling.

Also I feel you failed to note that there are other medicines that ALREADY appear within the BTWC (Biological & Chemical Warfare Convention) element of the WMD definition e.g. succinylchloline. Medical use does not preclude a chemical from being considered a WMD. So it's evident just how much research you put in before responding. NONE. Or maybe succinylchloline is a bit too technical for you...

BOTOX, one of the most widely used agents in cosmetic surgery is is botulinum neurotoxin... also listed in the BTWC.

Since Russian special services used a (thusfar not conclusively proven) mixture of fentanyl derivatives with fatal consequences, although not explicitly listed, carfentanil could already be considered a WMD and certainly the BTWC DOES cover it. I can promise you one thing - you CANNOT legally obtain carfentanil without first obtaining a DEA licence even if you add the word 'Zoo' to you mailing address.

Now I have had call to actually READ these conventions because for one project the highest-yielding synthesis used phosphorous pentasulfide which isn't explicitly listed but IS subject to the Convention's verification measures 'due to it being a phosphorus-containing unscheduled discrete organic chemical (DOC)'. So in short, a LOT of chemicals are actually covered by the BTWC I mean THOUSANDS. Not just precursors but pre-precursors. Phosphorous trichloride being one example I can think of off the top of my head. Used to make nerve agents (and several quite innocent things).

Yes, faking of academic papers does happen but experimental data is provided along with the source(s) of reagents and a detailed description of methodology applied to obtain said data so ANYONE is free to repeat the experiments. It HAPPENS. I believe it was Carl Segan who first noted 'exceptional results need exceptional proof' so the bolder the claim, the closer other researchers will look. I should add that if a repeated experiment yields different results, the first people the latter experimentalist will contact is the original research team (and yes, there have been cases in which original teams quickly retracted papers themselves - which may or may not indicate intentional fraud) but in my experience, they will do their best to work with later researchers in case the latter made an mistake or if an original work fails to address a detail. But that's not fraud.

I think the most famous example I can give is when a team published a paper showing cyclohexanone to act as a catalyst. When repeated many year later, the same catalytic activity was not observed and it turrned out that 2,3-cyclohexenone was a minor impurity found in even Rectapure cyclohexnone at the time the original work took place but decades later, suppliers had found a facile route to remove said impurity. So everyone acted in good faith and the result was a discovery that turned out to be far more valuable than the original work. That the cyclohexENONE is the vital co-catalyst.

The above case? Google FOGBANK. The US military spent about twelve years trying to refurbish it's nuclear weapons but the interstage had different physical properties to the original material and that 2,3-cyclohexenone was why they failed for so long. But was that fraud? Or do we think it's a lack of documentation and loss of institutional knowledge? Most mistakes are not malign.

But intentional fraud is actually quite unusual because it doesn't matter if an experiment proves or disproves a hypothesis - both results are equally valuable. In fact, if one takes on Karl Popper's philosophy to heart, experimentation can never PROVE a statement, only DISPROVE it. An accidental mistake in a paper is generally not detremental to a researchers career. A crime of omission at worst. But intentional fraud can, does and has ended the careers of some extremly high profile researchers. Jan Hendrik Schön is a high-profile example and HOW he was able to commit fraud was investigated and written up. Put simply, he was a nice guy and scientists being people were more liable to trust someone they actually liked. Apparently the keystone of his strategy was to simply agree with everyone - because it's a human bias to place more trust in people who will be unfailingly supportive than to people who are critical. But you need to read that one to see how the trick was done.

Also, why not spend a little time looking at:

www.retractionwatch.com

Appendix B demonstrates the sheer variety of reasons why a paper may be retracted. Don't be put off by the fact that it covers 63,000 retracted papers, you can filter and oh look..

That way at least even you will get a basic understanding that intentional fraud is a TINY fracton when the number of papers published is considered . Intentional fraud is very unusual because discovery is career-ending and possibly more importantly to some academics, it sullies their legacy. Because it calls into question ALL of their work. If fraud is detected in just ONE paper, that calls into question EVERY article a researcher has ever published. Never underestimate the vanity of academics and Schön had been tipped to win a Nobel prize which is one major factor in his downfall.

I feel it important to point out that ANYONE can submit a paper to Retraction Watch if they have a valid reason to doubt the work. I know I have.

In the specific case of buprenorphine, the difference is that the ORIGINAL aim of buprenorphine therapy was to detoxify those dependent on opioids. But later works focus much more on the abstainance rate of clients continuing with buprenorphine therapy. But many people have pointed out why long-term use of buprenorphine comes with some pretty hefty issues such as emergency analgesia not being available, the nebulous nature of it's metabolite, norbuprenorphine (toxic) and many typical side-effects of opioids such as hyperaglasia, but in this thread others have pointed to other issues, my list is far from exhaustive.

So yes, carfentanil HAS appear on the market in North America and if people are pushed into taking buprenorphine for extended periods, an opioid that will overcome the blockade isn't just a preference but a requirement so in fact it could fetch a premium. I don't know much about those markets because I don't touch non-prescribed medications. I did say that many of the nitazenes are novel but to the best of my knowledge, the prototype (etonitazene) has a significantly higher MOR affinity than buprenorphine. So again, likely to benefit from increased (required) prescribing of buprenorphine. Or at least here in the UK, courts can sentence people to DTTOs (drug treatment and testing orders) and I'm told in North America, it's even more stringent. Put simply not finding buprenorphine in a urine sample would land someone back in court just as quickly as finding H in that sample.

As I pointed out, in an uncontrolled market, Grisham's Law will ALWAYS prevail so carfentanil and nitazenes (both already on the street) are only going to benefit from the over-prescribing of buprenorphine. As I stated - opioid detoxification is rarely impossible. It's retaining sobriety that is far harder. But you now just have people dependent on HUGE doses of buprenorphine - which being legal and with so many patents issued for novel formulations is the most profitable model. But it does seem that people given high doses of buprenorphine for extended periods will develop dependency so while I value the fact it may save lives, essentially turning out millions of buprenorphine addicts is not an optimal outcome (for the client). One also has to ask if even an ELISA test would reliably detect such hugely potent ligands. I know that for over a decade, MDTs didn't detect buprenorphine and when we DID perform ELISA tests, in some prisons over half the convicts tested positive for the drug - so a lesson from history. I believe currently nitazenes are most commonly used in jails for the exact same reason; they can't be detected.

But I always endevour to provide an answer to problems which is why I suggested that thienorphine WILL blockade carfentanil and while I'm almost sure that it shares many of the same issues as buprenorphine, there are only a few quite obscure opioids that would displace it from the MOR. I sincerely doubt that BU72 is likely to turn up on the street - it's not an open-chain compound thus requires a rare natural precursor and it contains several chiral centres. I believe I even pointed out that a KEY benefit of carfentanil is that it's achiral. So is vanila fentanyl and so are the nitazenes. So while there are fentanyl derivatives even more potent than carfentanil, they contain several chiral centres and if one manages 100% yield in every synthetic step by some miracle, the final chiral resolution would remove 87.5% of the product (50% x 50% x 50%) which means not only is it synthetically much harder but the cost will be very high if most is discarded.

Don't judge the honesty of others by your own standards and don't confuse having read a few books with actual experience. Because it SHOWS. By all means ask, we all begin from a position of ignorance. But I'm sure we can all complete the maxim 'assumption is the mother of all..'
 
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Bullshit. They call pipe bombs weapons of mass destruction.

No. I mean real weapons of mass destruction: Nukes, Directed Energy Weapons do exist and have that potential.

I like real world experience. These same people write the BS propaganda about how mild the effects of use in drugs such as Many classes of anti- depressants, anti-psychotics, and others.

I also like real world research aka does the stuff work.
 
You, pull two lines from my posts and go on a long winded rant; that is long by my standards?

Hold it , they they have not shown the potential for a real weapon of mass destruction.

You live in a country where a regular guy with a small pocket knife is considered heavily armed and dangerous.lol

Fuck all this Globalist propaganda.

What how many millions could be killed?
Seriously?

Botox or whatever is not in weaponized form. Vanity is not a weapon of mass destruction.lol

All I read is a long winded nerdy response to everything. Well, if we do this and that.
The shit they inject into people is not weaponized.

I don't care what you say. That is not in weaponized form. Sorry it isn't.

You, need a research paper on everything.
How, about real world results.

Everything that kill a few people is a weapon of mass destruction nowadays.

I don't care. You take one little bit of what I wrote and write a tl; dr back?
Even I think that is just a bunch of long winded bullshit.
I feel that the assertion that reference is unimportant to be telling.

Also I feel you failed to note that there are other medicines that ALREADY appear within the BTWC (Biological & Chemical Warfare Convention) element of the WMD definition e.g. succinylchloline. Medical use does not preclude a chemical from being considered a WMD. So it's evident just how much you researched before responding. NOTHING. Or maybe that's a bit too technical for you. BOTOX, one of the most widely used agents in cosmetic surgery is is botulinum neurotoxin... also listed in the BTWC.

Since Russian special services used a (thusfar not conclusively proven) mixture of fentanyl derivatives with fatal conseuences, although not explicitly listed, carfentanil could already be considered a WMD. Certainly you CANNOT legally obtain carfentanil without first obtaining a DEA licence even if you add the word 'Zoo' to you mailing address.

Now I have had call to actually READ these conventions because for one project the highest-yielding synthesis used phosphorous pentasulfide which isn't explicitly listed but IS subject to the Convention's verification measures 'due to it being a phosphorus-containing unscheduled discrete organic chemical (DOC)'. So in short, a LOT of chemicals are actually covered by the BTWC I mean THOUSANDS.

Yes, faking of academic papers does happen but experimental data is provided along with a detailed description of the methodology applied to obtain said data so ANYONE is free to repeat the experiments. It HAPPENS. I believe it was Carl Segan who first noted 'exceptional results need exceptional proof' so the bolder the claim, the closer other researchers will look. I should add that if a repeated experiment yields different results, the first people the latter experimentalist will contact is the original research team (and yes, there have been cases in which original teams quickly retracted papers themselves - which may or may not indicate intentional fraud) but in my experience, they will do their best to work with later researchers in case the latter made an mistake or if an original work fails to address a detail.

I think the most famous example I can give is when a team published a paper showing cyclohexanone to act as a catalyst. When repeated many year later, the same catalytic activity was not observed and it turrned out that 2,3-cyclohexenone was a minor impurity found in even Rectapure cyclohexnone at the time the original work took place but decades later, suppliers had found a facile route to remove said impurity. So everyone acted in good faith and the result was a discovery that turned out to be far more valuable than the original work. That the cyclohexENONE is the co-catalyst.

The above case? Google FOGBANK. The US military spent about twelve years trying to refurbish it's nuclear weapons but the interstage had different physical properties to the original material and that 2,3-cyclohexenone was why they failed for so long. But was that fraud? Or do we think it's a lack of documentation and loss of institutional knowledge? Most mistakes are not malign.

But intentional fraud is actually quite unusual because it doesn't matter if an experiment proves or disproves a hypothesis - both results are equally valuable. In fact, if one takes on Karl Popper's philosophy to heart, experimentation can never PROVE anything, only DISPROVE it. An accidental mistake in a paper is generally not detremental to a researchers career. A crime of omission at worst. But intentional fraud can, does and has ended the careers of some extremly high profile researchers. Jan Hendrik Schön is a high-profile example and HOW he was able to commit fraud was investigated and written up. Put simply, he was a nice guy and scientists being people were more liable to trust someone they actually liked. Apparently the keystone of his strategy was to simply agree with everyone - because it's a human bias to have place more trust in people who will be unfailingly supportive than to people who are critical. But you need to read that one to see how the trick was done.

Also, why not spend a little time looking at:

www.retractionwatch.com

That way at least even you will get a basic understanding of how accidental errors and reproductions are by far the most common reason for retraction. It is a TINY number when the number of papers published is considered. Intentional fraud is very unusual because discovery is career-ending and possibly more importantly to some academics, it sullies their legacy. Because it calls into question ALL of their work.

I feel it important to point out that ANYONE can submit a paper to Retraction Watch if they have a valid reason to doubt the work. I know I have.

In the specific case of buprenorphine, the difference is that the ORIGINAL aim of buprenorphine therapy was to detoxify those dependent on opioids. But later works focus much more on the abstainance rate of clients continuing with buprenorphine therapy. But many people have pointed out why long-term use of buprenorphine comes with some pretty hefty issues such as emergency analgesia not being available and the slightly nebulous nature of it's metabolite, norbuprenorphine (toxic) to mention two, but in this thread others have pointed to other issues.

So yes, carfentanil HAS appear on the market in North America and if people are pushed into taking buprenorphine for extended periods, an opioid that will overcome the blockade isn't just a preference but a requirement so in fact it could fetch a premium. I don't know because I don't touch non-prescribed medications. I did say that many of the nitazenes are novel but to the best of my knowledge, the prototype (etonitazene) has a significantly higher MOR affinity than buprenorphine. So again, likely to benefit from increased (required) use of buprenorphine. Or at least here in the UK, courts can sentence people to DTOs (drug treatment orders) so not finding buprenorphine in urine sample would land someone back in court as fast as finding H.

As I pointed out, in an uncontrolled market, Grisham's Law will ALWAYS prevail so carfentanil and nitazenes (both already on the street) are only going to benefit from the over-prescribing of buprenorphine. As I stated - opioid detoxification is rarely impossible. It's retaining sobriety that is far harder. But you now just have people dependent on HUGE doses of buprenorphine - which being legal and with so many patents issued for novel formulations is the most profitable model. But it does seem that people given high doses of buprenorphine for extended periods will develop dependency so while I value the fact it may save lives, essentially turning out millions of buprenorphine addicts is not an optimal outcome.

But I always endevour to provide an answer to problems which is why I suggested that thienorphine WILL blockade carfentanil and while I'm almost sure that it shares many of the same issues as buprenorphine, there are only a few quite obscure opioids that would displace it from the MOR. I sincerely doubt that BU72 is likely to turn up on the street - it's not an open-chain compound and it contains several chiral centres. I believe I even pointed out that a KEY benefit of carfentanil is that it's achiral. So is vanila fentanyl and so are nitazenes. So while there are fentanyl derivatives even more potent than carfentanil, they also contain several chiral centres and if one manages 100% yield in every synthetic step by some miracle, the final chiral resolution would remove 87.5% of the product... which means not only is it synthetically much harder but the cost will be very high if most is discarded.

Don't judge the honesty of others by your own standards and don't confuse having read a few books with actual experience. Because it SHOWS.
 
I've only skimmed a bit of this thread, and I've never heard of this stuff before. I looked it up and it appears it's being openly sold online.

One site says:


1mgUSD 45.00

10mgUSD 90.00

25mgUSD 150.00

50mgUSD 250.00

100mgUSD 450.00

How many milligrams is effective?

Is there something I'm missing? Cause this sounds too good to be true. Why isn't everyone with even the smallest habit of any kind buying this stuff? Or maybe they are?

Does it have any bad side effects?

I dont think we are allowed to discuss pricing and CERTAINLY NOT sourcing so I must tread lightly.

Too many Mg's for that to be a fair price! Seems about the best answer I can give. (If im wrong someone mention it but that seems - I cant extrapolate) lol
 
I dont think we are allowed to discuss pricing and CERTAINLY NOT sourcing so I must tread lightly.

Too many Mg's for that to be a fair price! Seems about the best answer I can give. (If im wrong someone mention it but that seems - I cant extrapolate) lol
I promise you the aforementioned prices are incredibly wrong and inflated. The domestic pricing is actaully cheaper than any illicit street opiod.

It’s sold by the gram fyi. Not the mg lol. And 5 grams is more than enough to kick any of the
Usual suspects in about 2 weeks.

I just finished off a gram of some exquisite #4 last night, and juuuust dosed SR (100mg) about an hour ago after I observed myslef yawning profusely and stretching with no relief. I feel suprisigly good rigjt now. But def not “high” This stuff works exceptionally well at masking the ick which trails a full agonist opiate bender.

To each there own, but it’s a godsend considering how I felt a little while ago.
 
Off topic @DrChivago

But does youre user name derive from a christian slater/brad pitt/ dennis hopper/ christopher walken etc movie? It is my favorite (DeTROIITT!)
 
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I dont think we are allowed to discuss pricing and CERTAINLY NOT sourcing so I must tread lightly.

Too many Mg's for that to be a fair price! Seems about the best answer I can give. (If im wrong someone mention it but that seems - I cant extrapolate) lol
Ok I deleted it. I know we can't source but I thought pricing was ok done anonymously like that so we don't know what site it's from or even see the product name.

I mean all I use is Kratom but this stuff sounds AMAZING. It's hard to believe it's actually affordable. I'd love to have a supply.

So you mean, you can really just go online and order it without any penalties at all?

And has its safety profile been in any way verified or discussed by anyone legit?
 
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