Opioids SR-17018 Is the future of opioid detox medication. Painless easy cheat to avoid withdrawal that is too good to be true, but it is legit and real.

[sHR00m]

when someone mentions they are on 16,24 or even 32mg/day, to me, that seems an insanely high dose.

Indeed. On bluelight discord we had someone and their partner which were put on 16mg bupe each. Both were floored. One of them showed clearly signs of having had too much but their doctor STILL wanted to put them on 32mg next. This kind of overprescribing of suboxone feels like another wave of pill mills. They were not even having a long term habit. Some oxy dependence or something. They ended up switching to kratom and tapering to zero with relative ease. I feel kratom is getting too much bad press lately. Yes it can be addictive and people underestimated that but compared to fent, bupe or methadone there is a good chance that it is the lesser evil. Also its considerably easier to taper with it rather than committing to a substitute with a very long half life, having to make super slow dose adjustments in order to keep withdrawals at bay.

 

[4DQSAR]

@sHR00m - I would be surprised if buprenorphine WASN'T the next form of 'pill mill'. In fact, it would be interesting to start a thread asking how much is being prescribed.

It took you pointing it out but once you did, it is rather obvious isn't it?

Sci-Hub : {title} [{doi}]

At the end of the day, if someone truly wants to stop using opioids, it's possible. I suppose the argument for buprenorphine was it's high-affinity would more effectively blockade the MOR but we live in an age where some people's only experience with clandestine drugs is fentanyl or a nitazene. Both classes having an even higher affinity than buprenorphine.

I do keep pointing out that in the 1960s Janssen produced a methadone homologue (the acetyl methadol derivative of R-4066) that is some x106 methadone in potency and has a much longer half-life than methadone. So one could in theory use substitution therapy even when a client it dependent on a highly potent opioid. But since the patent has lapsed with no way of clawing back production control (thus set the market price), it's all but forgotten.

If the only metric used to measure a drug's success is in terms of profit, it never will be produced. Not a single study has ever been carried out to compare it with buprenorphine.

 

[drewbocop]

Indeed. On bluelight discord we had someone and their partner which were put on 16mg bupe each. Both were floored. One of them showed clearly signs of having had too much but their doctor STILL wanted to put them on 32mg next. This kind of overprescribing of suboxone feels like another wave of pill mills. They were not even having a long term habit. Some oxy dependence or something. They ended up switching to kratom and tapering to zero with relative ease. I feel kratom is getting too much bad press lately. Yes it can be addictive and people underestimated that but compared to fent, bupe or methadone there is a good chance that it is the lesser evil. Also its considerably easier to taper with it rather than committing to a substitute with a very long half life, having to make super slow dose adjustments in order to keep withdrawals at bay.

Been that way since the start. Back in '08 I had to demand to start on 8mg instead of 16mg, and went to 4 in 2 months. The doctor had me jump at 1mg, and I was sick for weeks, and ended up relapsing and switching to methadone (which I successfully got off of 120mg -> 0). Now people are getting scripts online via telechat and having bupe strips in front of them in a few hours. They are literally doing this to get off 7-hydroxymitragynine, which only covers half the symptoms (no serotonin action) and then using both side by side. At this point in time, I hate bupe so much, I would never recommend anyone use it. To me, it is evil. If it works for you, great, but to me it would be a last-line form of defense. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

I went to the bupe clinic 6 or 7 years ago against my better judgement. A laptop was placed in front of me with a webcam aimed at some old black woman's nostrils. Never did see her entire face but I could tell she was on a beach somewhere not giving a fuck. She pretty much didn't listen to anything I had to say and read off a script "you sound like a good candidate for this treatment"

Walked out with a prescription for 16mg of bupe twice daily. Had strips in hand within an hour. $400 cash each month IIRC. Month supply handed to me no questions asked. I had been doing like 40mg of hydrocodone a day at the time. Wasn't the height of my opioid habit but that was pretty typical of my use over the past 10+ years I'd been taking them.

I cut a strip into 8 pieces and took 1mg or so because I knew better. I felt high as fuck. I'd taken bupe before but something about having my own script hit me different. I threw them in a drawer and decided I'd rather go cold turkey than deal with them and having to pee in a cup in front of them every month or having to talk to a bunch of other junkies about my problems. No offense but I really dislike being forced to hang around other junkies. I knew I'd just end up making new friends and new connects.

I tossed the bag of strips I had into a garbage fire a few months later because I kept dipping into them. I think I took 3 in total before I decided they needed to leave the house.

So yeah it's basically just a pill mill. Same shit is going on there that I saw at all the "pain clinics" they had when I lived in Florida. Even see the same out-of-state license plates on cars at the local sub clinics like I saw at the old FL pill mills every week.

 

[4DQSAR]

The two cases above transparently show that the model that has been adopted is to get a patient as dependent on buprenorphine as possible so no street drug would have any notable effects... then leave it to the patient to decide if they ever want to reduce. But the papers that support that model do NOT include fentanyl or the nitazenes. I've read of proper car crash events when someone with a fentanyl habit being convinced buprenorphine would help... and it did the opposite.

Put simply, not just A profitable model, but the MOST profitable model.

32mg of buprenorphine for a 40mg hydrocodone/day habit is clearly insane, clearly not in the best interests of the patient. 4mg/day would be too much.

I think we really should begin collecting case studies. If we have enough, a class action law suit is entirely possible.

I think my wife still talks to a lawyer in the US who for decades defended doctors and pharmacists who the DEA tried to charge with over-prescribing. The lawyer friend would point out some obvious things such as the doctor or pharmacist being on the door of a bunch of retirement homes or in the middle of farming comminitues - places where an above average number of people would have genuine need of pain control.

So I can ask, if people think it worth it. I cannot possibly bandy around their name unless they agree to let me do so but I have a great deal of respect for them. After all, this is just another case of large institutions abusing individuals. Our friend always takes on the institutions.

So do the mods feel a specific thread would be appropriate?

 

[Deleted member 576750]

I've always been amazed when people tell me how much bupe they take

when I was opioid dependent and using heroin regularly, pre fent days, I could use 2 mg and feel amazing for the whole day. bupe has a clear ceiling and I can't see most people truly needing more than 4mg

 

[4DQSAR]

I've always been amazed when people tell me how much bupe they take

when I was opioid dependent and using heroin regularly, pre fent days, I could use 2 mg and feel amazing for the whole day. bupe has a clear ceiling and I can't see most people truly needing more than 4mg

I'm curious to know if the prescribing of buprenorphine to patients dependent on fentanyl is universally a bad idea or if it was just because in the case I mentioned, the person indicated that they were using a lot of fentanyl.

Nitazenes, who knows?

But I do keep on pointing this out - as soon a a scaffold is controlled in China (where nitazenes are produced), they will simply move on to the next scaffold - one with even less extant data.

OT 'Reindeer Spotting' does underline the fact that a new generation grows up who only know of the few compounds available and accept them. I really have no idea if buprenorphine has a 'street price' but in UK prisons, a single 8mg Subutex could be split into eight 1mg units and each unit sold for £5. We MDTs now test for buprenorphine and for fentanyl derivatives. But not nitazenes. But trust me, the moment China bans the production of all nitazenes, they will have something with even less extant data and will simply make that instead. Surely at some point the sheer number of controlled drugs makes de facto control impossible.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

Here is the thing about the bupe clinics. The same company/family that convinced all the doctors to hand out oxycontin (the OG ones) and percocet like candy is the same family reaping massive profits off the bupe clinics. They reformulate the bupe every so often just as the patent on the last formulation is going to expire. Their 'punishment' for causing the 'opioid crisis' in America was getting a monopoly on supplying bupe for the next 10-15 years. I'd have to go back and read the court documents again for all the details. But the gist of it is when covid was happening all those states that were suing the pharmaceutical companies for causing the pill mills/opioid crisis settled quietly for a small fine and a promise that they'd supply bupe to addicts for the next decade or so. They aren't supplying it as cost though they're making probably more money now than they were off of the oxycodone.

On the flip side oxycodone is now so demonized they won't give it to you even if you're dying. I recently had to go to the ER for a big kidney stone. I was left in a waiting room in horrible pain for over 7 hours before anyone saw me. They refused to push any type of opioid for the pain so they gave me something else I can't remember the name of now. It barely helped at all. Then I was given one 5mg oxycodone tablet and sent home. The next morning I went to pick up 3 prescriptions. I was given some Ibuprophen tablets which I could have bought much cheaper OTC, some Promethazine and a grand total of four 5mg oxycodone tablets. For a massive kidney stone.

For those 4 tablets I was forced to wait another two hours in horrible pain despite showing up at soon as the pharmacy opened. Since whatever they'd given me the night before barely eased the pain and had worn off by then. I had to wait because the pharmacist said she had to do tons of paper work to dispense those four tablets. Then she had to verify that I was actually suffering from kidney stones by calling the ER. Which put her on hold for over a half hour. All this for four tablets that weren't going to do a damn thing for my pain even if I ate them all at the same time.

I would have been better off going to the headshop and buying a bunch of kratom and 7-HO. I would have gotten better treatment and it wouldn't have cost me $10,000. I'm waiting for them to send that bill. The first ER I went to had the gaul to send a bill despite never admitting me. I had to leave from there and drive over an hour in horrible pain to another ER to get seen by a doctor. The service at that one wasn't much better but at least they saw me within 15 minutes.

It's a racket. Nothing will be done about it through the legal system ever. They don't give a fuck about us.

What pisses me off the most is some asshole behind me at the pharmacy was yelling and treating the staff like shit because they were making him wait 5 minutes for his prescription of xanax and oxycodone. I have known tons of people over the years that manage to get hooked up with doctors that dole out 250+ xanax bars a month and 120+ roxis and they aren't even in pain and don't need the benzos either. They just sell them. Fill them for $2 all-in too because they have Government funded healthcare. Meanwhile, I'm in the worse pain I've ever expereinced and can't get a nurse much less a doctor to give me the time of day. My father took me and assured me I wouldn't have to wait long because they treat kidney stone patients first unless someone is dying. I told him they'd treat me like shit and he's pretty disgusted by how I was treated. Normal for me. I told him: They don't treat me like they treat most people. If you don't have insurance they don't care because they can't run the bill up.

Still can't figure out why they gave me a chest x-ray either.

I'm not paying. Fuck 'em. They should all be ashamed of themseleves and how they treat people. They think their shit doesn't stink. They don't have any problem writing prescriptions for themseleves and close friends. I've known plenty of doctors that were addicts. Dated a girl for awhile who's father was a doctor. He writes himself prescriptions for opioids all of the time and stays high 24/7. When they started watching things more closely he had to switch to an opioid that wasn't oxycodone and start writing scripts for family members to make it look less susipcious. According to the database his daughter has been taking 60 tablets of 10mg oxycodone and later hydrocodone since 2013.

Anyway, it's FUBAR. The system is broken. They want everyone to be an addict. It's why half the commercials on TV are for pills. They're never going to legalize drugs because they make more money keeping them illegal and having a monopoly on the supply.

I can't believe how bad things have gotten at the local hospitals. I try really hard never to go into one even as a visitor now. It's like checking into a prison these days. I can't believe I came into one in horrible pain pissing blood and then left to suffer in a waiting room for hours. All because some dumb nurse that looked like she'd barely graduated high school thought I was trying to get high or whatever she decided when she took one look at me and made up her mind about me. I hope she gets kidney stones and I hope when she does they label her a "drug seeker" too.

No shit I'm seeking drugs. I'm in horrible pain.

I don't know if bupe has a street price

We aren't supposed to go into detail about this here but since you're curious: 8mg of bupe has been $20 on the street for as long as I can remember. Most of the people attending the clinic sell half of their monthly supply to cover the cost of going if they aren't getting to go for free through Government insurance. Might be higher now on the street I haven't tried to buy it in many years. But it's basically the cheapest opioid on the street since the price of pills went through the roof over a decade ago now. Opioid naive people and young people that didn't live through the days of cheap oxycodone all seem to like it a lot.

 

[DrChivago]

Here is the thing about the bupe clinics. The same company/family that convinced all the doctors to hand out oxycontin (the OG ones) and percocet like candy is the same family reaping massive profits off the bupe clinics. They reformulate the bupe every so often just as the patent on the last formulation is going to expire. Their 'punishment'

I had to go to the emergency room three different times to finally get diagnosed with renal failure and a mass on my kidney of 4.2 cm

Had a radial nephrectomy done march 2023. Two years later still putting my life back together. Constant issues of ED, testosterone, endless fatigue and bouts of depression sprinkled with mania. My shits be clinically fucked.

I digress. Point is... post op zero pain medicine. LiTeRaLLy cut me open wit a go-go-gadget robot, aired me up like basketball and swiveled a cam/scope through my entire organ system before displacing my muscles, tissues and other organs... snipping out me left adrenal gland and kidney. I woke from anesthesia literally feeling like somebody had beat the fucking shit out of me and boot stomped my fucking stomach. I was disoriented and crying uncontrollably. I'm talking this shit hurt. Top 3 worst no cap.

After causing all this trauma to my internals, you know what the surgeon approved? ONE FUCKING MG OF DILAUDID. YES ONE. And refused to give me anything after because of OUD. Like a mfr that uses drugs can't be in pain. Luckily, I gave my girlfriend my bag of heroin to hold. So postop in in the recovery bay I mixed up a shot on my roller tray and squirted it right in my IV port.

The healthcare system is cooked. There's no relief for those who are in pain or any compassion for people who deserve it. There's just nothing left that justifies it's ridiculous cost of being treated like shit.

SMTBS

 

[4DQSAR]

We aren't supposed to go into detail about this here but since you're curious: 8mg of bupe has been $20 on the street for as long as I can remember. Most of the people attending the clinic sell half of their monthly supply to cover the cost of going if they aren't getting to go for free through Government insurance. Might be higher now on the street I haven't tried to buy it in many years. But it's basically the cheapest opioid on the street since the price of pills went through the roof over a decade ago now. Opioid naive people and young people that didn't live through the days of cheap oxycodone all seem to like it a lot.

If something has a street value, short of supervised consumption, I suppose it's inevitable.

I just spent a couple of hours trying to find out if buprenorphine-related overdoses are increasing. But everywhere I look, the data is 2017-2021. I DID check lots of sources but always it refers back to those four years. I finally managed to discover an interesting detail. The reason is that nobody is actually collecting data.

 

[DrChivago]

I'm curious to know if the prescribing of buprenorphine to patients dependent on fentanyl is universally a bad idea or if it was just because in the case I mentioned, the person indicated that they were using a lot of fentanyl.

Nitazenes, who knows?

But I do keep on pointing this out - as soon a a scaffold is controlled in China (where nitazenes are produced), they will simply move on to the next scaffold - one with even less extant data.

OT 'Reindeer Spotting' does underline the fact that a new generation grows up who only know of the few compounds available and accept them. I really have no idea if buprenorphine has a 'street price' but in UK prisons, a single 8mg Subutex could be split into eight 1mg units and each unit sold for £5. We MDTs now test for buprenorphine and for fentanyl derivatives. But not nitazenes. But trust me, the moment China bans the production of all nitazenes, they will have something with even less extant data and will simply make that instead. Surely at some point the sheer number of controlled drugs makes de facto control impossible.

It's an absolutely horrendous idea.

They know damn well that a patient has to wait a minimum of 72 to 96 hours before even being able to take bupe. Yet still give it out and tell them to wait less. Knowing that they're gonna go into precipitated withdrawals and have the most miserable time of their fucking life. Hell, by that time you might as well just... tough it out.

Example- A few years back I went to a hole in the wall fly-by-night Suboxone clinic. Waited 30 minutes, talk to some chick on a video screen and specifically asked; "Well. What about fentanyl? I've heard that it causes precipitated withdrawals if you're using it regularly." She told me all that was required was to wait 24 hours and take one or 2 mg. That "should" be long enough. Walked right out with the script.

SPOLIER ALERT- NO

Now because I thought that healthcare professionals weren't in the business of causing harm, and against my better judgment- I did what she said. Let me tell you...within 30 minutes of taking that 1mg sliver, I was rocking back-and-forth on my bed, crying saying "WTF Wtf WtF wtf WtF WtF......" over and over again. As I slowly slipped into full-blown precipitated withdrawals with goosebumps, dysphoria impending doom, cold sweats, shivering and emotional cascade of crying. Literally just laying on the floor convulsing going in and out of what I can only describe as hyper-depressive lackadaisical consciousness to uncontrollable, inaudibly tongue speech-- just shivering and shaking and convulsing on the ground. My girlfriend went and picked up a bag because she couldn't watch me anymore and it took almost a gram of fucking street fentanyl to get me back to baseline.

Fuck bupe, Fuck Drug Policy, Fuck the healthcare system with its pretentious agenda, self-serving asshole, doctors and cronies. They're all lap dogs of Big Pharma. They run the show in this world.

People say that the system is broken. I say that it works perfectly. And exactly how they designed it...

SMBTS

 

[Deleted member 585202]

Does it work for bupe?

 

[4DQSAR]

Does it work for bupe?

That would be a VERY interesting thing to know. I did find and post the human study as originally they wanted it to replace oxycodone. But it simply wasn't active enough (as an analgesic), or that was my impression.

I also pointed out that there is already a biased ligand licenced for in-patient pain relief. Olinvyk (oliceridine) and that it seems that it's activity varies a lot between patients given that 1-3mg initial dose every 2-3 hours upto 27mg/daily. The problem is every reference gives different values for dose and frequency. So I don't know what to make of that.

I do recall nalbuphine was used in the UK for a few years but it could actually increase pain levels in some individuals. So we stopped using it.

But brilliant question @Quasimoto - I will look into that more. I read it, posted it and TBH forgot most of it. But it is there and you can Google it. Olinvyk.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

I will be trying it out in a month or so. I have access to both SR-17018 and SR-14968.

It would be super convenient for me because I really want to get off bupe but cannot afford that stress of withdrawal in my life right now.

 

[4DQSAR]

BTW I think some people might be under the impression that I have an issue with SR-17018. I don't. I absolutely do want it to be true. But I have seen several generations of 'unabusable' opioids come and go. So if I seem skeptical, it's only because I've seen those promises before.

It really needs a proper double-blind study with a decent cohort size so we have some idea of it's utiity. But if it works for someone, I'm 100% for that.

 

[noclipuser]

Hey does anyone feel like sr 17018 blocks/dulls opiates after? I tried 200mg of ODSMT orally after being on a 100mg sr 17 daily dose for 1.5 weeks and it didn’t do shit, zero noticeable effects. Was pretty dissapointed today and even boofed 100mg this evening which also didn’t do anything. I hope I feel it tomorrow

 

[Tetrapharmakos]

Hey does anyone feel like sr 17018 blocks/dulls opiates after? I tried 200mg of ODSMT orally after being on a 100mg sr 17 daily dose for 1.5 weeks and it didn’t do shit, zero noticeable effects. Was pretty dissapointed today and even boofed 100mg this evening which also didn’t do anything. I hope I feel it tomorrow

I haven't noticed this myself, but I have heard it mentioned elsewhere.

Also I think it's worth noting, IMO I really believe less is more when it comes to SR-17. I was very nervous about withdrawal and unconfident in SR17 ability when I first used it and honestly I think I overdid it. I've used it again since and I've had remarkable effects at rapid, withdrawal free detox taking doses around 20-30 mg only 2x per day.

Taking a bit less may help to avoid that effect of blunting other opioids.

 

[DrChivago]

I don't think anyone even suggested that SR-17018 helped ADDICTION. Most people are able to detoxify from opioids given the appropriate treatment but the long-term outcomes are not exactly great with 70-90% of clients relapsing within a year.

I have also mentioned that we don't know if SR-17018 works repeatedly nor what the effects are if it's mixed with a 'classic' MOR ligand. From what I have read, it isn't that potent so I'm unsure if it would provide relief to anyone dependent on extremely large amounts of opioids or those who use opioids with extremely high activity.

In one trip report someone mentioned taking a large (for them) dose of SR-17018 and noted that the subjective effects were more or less the same as classic opioids. So is SR-17018 addictive in it's own right? The human studies weren't actually testing those things. The stuff was originally investigated as an alternative to oxycodone and it proved not to be very good in that role.

Le personal take...

Dicks to dollars them animal trials which we aren't privy to said, in much more technical jargon, how hey fucked around and possibly found the cure to opiate dependency. And as we know, it was being tested with Bupe in the first few

Dependent critters going to re-up on Bupe water and not SR... Probably didn't sit to well with Satan... I mean, Big Pharma.

It's surprisingly just not very addictive. Quite the anomaly really. It just doesn't ring that bell, yet satisfyingly strong in terms of analgesia. Not euphoric, but at its peak efficacy I would dare say, I was... "almost" high? This was cold swapping about 200mg for 80mg methadone. Then tapered down and off in 15 days. No acute, just a little soreness and a cataclysmic emotional storm of the ghost of Dope-mas past. I fasted for 3 days, took supplements and exercised and it was the easiest detox off junk I've ever done.

Stayed off opiates for nearly 6 months. Sure, I had cravings. Still do. Was honestly curious about the "reset" rumors so I took 20mg of Methadone to see. I barfed..repeatedly... all night and slept the whole next

I was officially a light weight again. And have a profound respect for my newly acquired tolerance.

Will it continue to works as such?

Not sure I wanna find out. Think ill just stick to white lines or bowl Rollies...

tHat'S a FaCt, JaCk...bUt dOn'T qUotE mE bOi cUz I AiN't sAiD ShEeiT

 

[4DQSAR]

Le personal take...

Dicks to dollars them animal trials which we aren't privy to said, in much more technical jargon, how hey fucked around and possibly found the cure to opiate dependency. And as we know, it was being tested with Bupe in the first few

I provided links to both human and animal trials (including primate models). I assume there were more but at least some were publised.

 

[DrChivago]

I provided links to both human and animal trials (including primate models). I assume there were more but at least some were publised.

They were drinking the kool-aid and getting hyped because of the unexplained "repair"mechanism being observed in the mice studies.

Then shitcanned the project abruptly claiming the shit slinger's weren't itching their asses enough.... "Our findings reveal that in vivo apparent low efficacy of SR-17018 is similar to that of a MOP partial agonist buprenorphine..."

Two issues here...

First being the 300mg "equivalent" dose was salted out (with sulfonic or fumuric I cant remember) and injected into the spine. Despite earlier findings exhibiting higher efficacy of the freebase .

And two- Histamine reactions are indicative of poppy derivatives. Brorphine and its analalogs are derived from PIPERIDINE..

Le bullshit. But whatever, it would have never knocked bupe off the hill anyway.

HAPPY TURKEY DAY!