Quitting/Tapering Thread.

[tyrael]

....well i'm 43 hours into quitting. The first day was absolutely fucking hell.....

To begin with, kudos and everyone here who has ever quit their addicition is I'm sure behind you!!

.....The reason why i was so cautious is that my last two attempts to quit in December have all resulted in precipitated withdrawals, resulting on me going back onto the sauce.....

A question; by the sounds of it you're attempting this without checking in with a D&A service? If there is one around (also considering you have tried previously) would it best to maybe go in and just have a chat with someone? They maybe able to suggest a tritration schedule to improve your chances?

.....its hard not being able to talk about this stuff but i'm doing it.....

I'm sure! (for what it's worth) There are definitely BLers here who've gone/going through the same situtation. (if what you have to say isn't quite relivant to a thread, I'm sure the BLers posting here wouldn't have an issue with a PM - I know I wouldn't!).

Anyway, goodluck! Keep with it! Honestly the first few days are the worst ..... so you're almost past it! :D

 

[tyrael]

(I posted this in the Australian Opiate Withdrawal Maintainance Medication Prescribers, these resources may help....)

Regardling tapering; the general consensus is 2mg / day until you're all out. However from the DAASA (a SA D&A service) themselves > National Clinicaluidelines and Procedures for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Dependence - page 46 is what you're after. Although the entire document is extremely interesting (imo lol).

* Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction.
* A comparison of buprenorphine taper outcomes between prescription opioid and heroin users.
* Buprenorphine tapering schedule and illicit opioid use.
* A comparison of buprenorphine taper outcomes between prescription opioid and heroin users.

A few supporting experiments. If you don't have access to the full article, let me know. (please don't just read the abstract, they can be deceiving!)

 

[footscrazy]

For 6 or 7 years I have been scoring from the same guy. He is a very good friend.

Its been over a week since I used, and on Thursday we found out the devistating news, a lump in his leg is BAD. Its not drug related as far as the Drs are concerned. Op and chemo start next week, but he has been advised the outlook is not good. Treatment will prolong, not save :-(

Oh popeye, that's awful. That really sucks I hope that you two can spend some really great times together, and that he stays comfortable and has an easy a ride as possible

 

[chugs]

A question; by the sounds of it you're attempting this without checking in with a D&A service? If there is one around (also considering you have tried previously) would it best to maybe go in and just have a chat with someone? They maybe able to suggest a tritration schedule to improve your chances?

well to be frank there are things i can't speak about because some friends from my other life do visit/read BL and I can't let on but i'm not completely alone. D&A services are my plan C.

Anyway, goodluck! Keep with it! Honestly the first few days are[/B

] the worst ..... so you're almost past it! :D

Thanks for the karma. i have to say i fell off the wagon yesterday/today but i'm going hard tomorrow on throwing the habit.

I had a really hard cut over as i mentioned before. Sublingual bupe is no longer working whatsoever. I'm forced to inject it. That said i've read what be a dozen sites about bupe inductions and its interesting to note that at least on drug.com there is a growing sentiment that people having more and more trouble jumping from heroin to bupe.

My take is that dealers are cutting smack these days with oxy and/or fentyal. These long life opiates make it difficult for people to gauge when to induct, and of course they fail, take too much bupe, and too early and end up in precipitated withdrawals.

What i've recently learnt is that you wait as long as possible (i waited 21+ hours), go for a moderate Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale (COWS) score and take very low doses (sub 1mg if injecting) once every hour until the withdrawal symptoms abate. anthing more and you risk PW.

My first and second attempts that lead to PW were due to inducting/injecting 4mg of bupe+. I went into instant precipitated withdrawals, absolute fucking hell in 10 seconds that last for 4 hours. It leaves you exhausted and worse still your still fucking sick and it forces you to get on.

anyway staying positive and happy. Thanks for the sentiment and empathy (and thanks for the material. I'm still reading through it all).

 

[Halif]

Word to the wise: If you're ever thinking of taking phenzepam, either don't do it or make sure you aren't going to run out abruptly.

Like a lot of people (I suppose), I should have known better than to get into phenaz - let alone benzos - what with all the reading I've done on here and other sites. But I guess one has to live these things to really know why/what/how.

Short acting benzos are bad news enough, but the long-acting ones... well, I guess I can say I've "caught them all" now.

Phenazepam.... what an invention. I wouldn't wish the addiction and withdrawals on my worst enemy. Yet, I went to the trouble of sourcing the shit and taking enough for long enough to end up going through the mother of all withdrawals. I tapered down enough to avoid out right death, but fuck... the jumping off part happened faster than I anticipated, the acute withdrawals were worse than I could have imagined, and the post acute withdrawals...? Well, that's something I have to look forward to, I guess.

It's trite to say "Don't do <insert substance>", because obviously it doesn't stop people (it didn't stop me, haha!). However, the best thing I could say to sum it up is this: No other substance I've experienced has offered so little at the time of taking that I wondered if it was actually inert, and yet hurt so badly on the way out that I wondered if I was in fact dead and in purgatory.

There are so many train wreck stories about phenaz that I was ultra conservative with dosing and hence I avoided any gross incidents. But the flip side is that I wasn't even sure it was working. But it was. In some way, it was. It had to be, because nothing could create a hell like that without some active qualities.

So there you go, for what it's worth: phenazepam tops my list for the worst withdrawal of all time. Worst. Of all time.

Fin

 

[catching fish]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how long to expect poppy seed tea withdrawals to last for. Been using daily for maybe 6 months. On day 3 cold turkey and things are starting to get really bad.

Couldn't sleep a wink last night
Extremely painful joints esp knees
Pissing outta my arse every 45 min
Vomiting
Those are the physical symptoms

Thanks

 

[Crankinit]

`^ Ugh that sounds shit man. No idea how long PST w/ds lasts though, sorry. Hang in there man!

 

[Halif]

Yeah, day 3 is when it really kicks into gear (so to speak). Horrible.

Unfortunately, because it has an epic duration of effect, you can expect those symptoms to go on for a few more days before the acute stage starts to clear up. The insomnia is probably the single most draining aspect of the whole thing and will make you feel like you're losing it.

The good news is that you're well and truly into it, and that means making serious progress. Within a week you will start to feel the benefits of sobriety peeping in to the hell you're currently trapped in, and that will spur you on.

There comes a time when the best thing you can do - even though it's the last thing you'll feel like - is to get up and do some semi-intensive exercise. A short jog or some push ups. You'll feel sick for a while but it'll kick start your immune system and you'll very quickly start to feel a million times better.

Keep going. It's worth it.

 

[catching fish]

Yeah I'm having an awful time. At least coming off smack is a quicker affair.

The worst symptom today has been the vomiting. I must have vomited about 10 times - real gut wrenching painful vomiting as well. I've never vomited more than once before during opiate w/d.

I've found some neurofen which has taken the edge off the terrible knee pain. I've also found loperamide which I've read about on this forum. I've only got about 20 2mg capules so I can't go nuts with it but maybe it will help a bit with the gastric issues.

Next time I vomit I might take a couple so I can keep them down.

Fucking done with opiates. I'm sick of going through this shit and I'm sick of being a fucking loser. I've said this before but hopefully can stick to it this time.


How is everyone else doing? Anyone else going through this shit?

Edit - regarding to excercise, I'm fortunate enough to be less than 20 metres walk from a big lake so hopefully tomorrow I can go for a swim. That way if I'm swimming i won't have to worry about vomiting or soiling my pants haha.

Cheers for your posts - appreciate it a lot

 

[spacejunk]

Keep at it mate - you know the suffering is worth it in the end!
I agree with all Halif says; he knows what he's talking about.

Keep at it CF

 

[infectedmushroom]

Trying to taper down a 6+ month codeine habit 350mg + a day

Down to 90ish mg over the past week or so...I might stay here for a couple mo days before jumping off

What I hate is the sleep disturbances...I fucken hate not sleeping man...I Rekon even 20mg is the difference between a good nights sleep and an uncomfortable night. I know what I'll have to resort to...*gasp* EXCERCISE

 

[catching fish]

Thanks mate.

Fucking nighttime is well and truly here. Halif you were on the money about that. Can be a pretty lonely and trying time when you are in w/d and suffering from major insomnia. More so when you are 5 hours from home and your girl.

I've got neurofen, a few loperamide and one lorazepam - dose uncertain.

I haven't vomited in a few hours. Let's hope it never returns.

CF

 

[Halif]

The neurofen and ONE benzo is a good arsenal to have. The loperamide.... take care with that one. You probably don't want to hear it now, but loperamide itself can actually be stupidly addictive AND it has a shocking withdrawal which lasts as long as the tea you're getting off. A day or two won't get you into strife, but don't make it a crutch.

You're near a lake? Perfect! Swimming is the best thing you could do. Maybe you could... catch a fish. Sorry, couldn't help myself. When you start sleeping again and are able to eat, you can put some of the emotions that come up into exercise - that's your fast track back to health.

It sounds like you're coming from the right place and have a sincere motivation to get better. Some of the healthiest periods of my entire life were after cold turkey from long stints (two to three years at a time) on opiates. The reason being that the sheer contrast of feeling physically normal was amazing. The amount of extra energy you'll suddenly have can go both ways, though.

If you don't channel it you can end up sitting around with your mind going ape shit, and it's enough to put you right back onto what you just went through hell getting off. On the other hand, if you put that energy - even the negative shit like calling yourself a loser, no.. especially the negative shit - into exercise you can bounce back and be stronger than ever before. I went from 70 kilos to 87 in less than ten months from crazy working out after a cold turkey a few years back.

Unfortunately I've lost all that muscle and have been back on opiates for the last couple of years. So there you go: It's a constant battle. You're doing it tough now, but this could be a window of opportunity for you.

Maybe a permanent positive change is in store for you...

All the best.

 

[spacejunk]

Have either of you guys spoken to a dr or drug service in your detoxes?

The reason I ask, is when I kicked opiates I found clonidine (aka Catapres) to be a massive help.
Both in reducing restlessness/RLS and helping getting a bit of shut-eye. As Halif has noted, insomnia can be one of the hardest WD symptoms to endure.
Either way, it seems like a lot of Aussie BLers are using this time of year to cut or reduce their substance intake.
The best of luck to you; especially as the prominent culture seems to be to do the exact opposite around now.
Stay strong, folks.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Today is day ten of jumping off over a gram a day of Codeine. I would not have had 8 hours sleep in total. The physical symptoms are gone. i started exercising, but have stopped: the lack of sleep is crippling me.

If sleep doesn't come tonight I will be at the chemist tomorrow morning.

I figure just one good day and one nights sleep and I can jump head first back into exercise and recovery.

Seriously, am I kidding myself or, after 10 days, could 300mg actually give me a kick-start back to recovery.

 

[catching fish]

Physically feeling better this morning. Mentally I'm a wreck. Depression as finally come back with vengeance. I've always been extremely depressed, but have numbed myself over the years, esp last 6 months with PST. Even stopped taking my lexapro and avanza a few weeks ago.

God I haven't missed this feeling. I did some terrible things in 2013 which are hitting me full on for pretty much the first time. Not to mention my old demons popping up to say hello.

I don't know if this is part of w/d or just my baseline mental state after years of burning the candle for way too long.

 

[Captain Brewster]

^ I would say your depression is majorly amplified by the fact that your slightly heading into post acute withdrawal.

Hang in there mate, it won't be like that forever.

 

[Halif]

Nah, it's not your baseline mental state at all. You're well and truly in the throes of WD, and the fact that you ditched lexapro and avanza as well as PST... well that's a recipe for feeling utterly shit. I'd say you're right on track now. Given the circumstances I'd say you're completely normal. If you weren't feeling like garbage, I'd say there's something wrong with you!

And to Dr Phibes, that's a tough choice to make, but you're absolutely right in thinking that there's a point where you need to get some sleep at any cost. Ten days is too long. You might need to do that 300mg in order to get some sleep. Your call. It's a tricky spot to be in. That's where I think ONE benzo can come in handy, but that's every bit as bad if not more risky that just doing another CWE. You're in the high risk period for either relapsing or swapping one addiction for another. Perhaps Kava would be enough to help you get sleep? Thompson's Kava can be bought easily and works in roughly the same way as benzos, I believe.

 

[catching fish]

I would also go with benzos over breaking the taper.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Thanks Halif for not speaking in the usual cliché's I have been hearing.

I eventually had a few hours sleep last night but it took 100mg of diazapam. Your thoughts are the same as mine. Which is better? It is a dilemma and it must be seen within the context that I have no intention of giving up occasional recreational use of opioids. Circumstances just landed me somewhere I didn't want to be.

CWE now feels like failure, but it could also be a legit strategy to get through this.