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Quitting/Tapering Thread.

I know it maybe hard for people to source in Australia, but has there been anyone around who has tried tearing addictions with ibogaine? It has been popular in treating heroin addiction, but I've also read up some accounts where it has successful in treating long term meth addiction.

from most stories though, it will only help you to a point. Changing the routines in your life which aided you to your addiction is the crucial step.
 
Hey this is exactly what I plan on doing to get off Heroin. Can you tell me exactly how many days I should be doing this for and how many mgs i should be taking? Ive ben doing opiates for 5 yers with a little bit of clean time in between (nomore than maybe 3-4 weeks). Ive been IVing dope for the past 6 months and want nothing more than to just be able to detox myself with the least amount of uncomfort and pain possible. Please let me know exactly how you did this. I dont have the luxury of taking off of work for a week so I need to be able to do things daily while detoxing. Thanks in advance for any advice and happy to see you are clean!

Dee
 
There is no magic cure, unfortunately. You're going to have to take time off work if you want to get clean.
 
This is just my opinion, but when it comes to Ibogaine, I tend to think that that plant is powerfully tied to some cultures (like Ayahuasca) and is best used within the appropriate context or with someone who knows the plant/s very well.

Also, I think not just Ibogaine, but many psychedelics can be a catalyst to lasting change of perspective. People who take mushrooms, or ayahuasca, or cacti extract, etc, at a time when they are psychically vulnerable are more likely to have amplified experiences than someone who takes them just for 'a trippy saturday'.

It can be very hard to open yourself to what these plants have to offer because they can be extremely intense. If someone is withdrawing, or has just passt the actute phase of WD, they are likely not to have their full personality in tact in order to 'defend' themselves from the intensity of the experience.

Just some thoughts on the matter. Done the right way - respect the plants, practise meditation and self-awareness well before taking anything, growing the plant you intend to consume (or just nurturing it if the former is not applicable) - it's possible to have experiences so powerful that the former dependence loses its grip to the extent that it can seem trivial in comparison to the depth of unfiltered life.


The hardest part of the thing is coming face to face with that which you have tried to avoid - and then decided whether or not to accept it, or to keep suppressing it. Personally, cacti preparation has been the kindest for this to me. It can pack plenty of punch and depth and reveal profound things about oneself in a way that the participant can understand. I find that mushrooms, subs specifically, (remember, just my subjective experiences here) are simply too intense and too alien. The depth of revelation can be greater than the participant, and can be extremely cryptic - alien, in other words.

Although those trips can still leave you with a newfound sense of wonder and respect for the universe, I just find that they're often too intense and confusing, and I can't bring back as much as I'd like to.
 
Has anyone here read Brave New World? Sounds like heaven to me. I imagine 'Soma' being something like heroin.

Anyway guys, checking in. Starting my poppy seed tea taper tomorrow.

500 grams tomorrow, compared to the 1-2kg I've been using daily the last few months. We will see how we go.

I mean even if I didn't get it the completely yet, I'd love to be able to sustain myself on one jar (240 grams) a day.
 
^ I'd love to go on Soma holiday, and of course heroin was the drug that I associated it with, maybe with a bit of ketamine or other dissociative included as well.

There are a couple of large ibogaine threads elsewhere on Bluelight, have a search around.
 
Im going to start tapering tomorrow to try and end a 2 month binge of kratom.. mostly was taking bali started at like 2 teaspoons a day but am now up to 6 and today for the first time I also took UEI... I just need to get it over with before I start a new job soon!! Definitely didnt mean for the binge to last as long as it did and am likely going to pay the price for lack of self control
 
Soma as in food of the gods? That may in fact be Fly Agaric aka Amanita muscaria. In cases of serious poisoning the mushroom causes delirium, somewhat similar in effect to anticholinergic poisoning (such as that caused by Datura stramonium) If you have not experienced this I suggest you don't. It's very much a toxic experience however the number of caps to cause death would be more than the 6 I consumed. These caps had been sun dried and then simmered for 30 minutes and the resulting fluid strained and consumed. Also identifying the mushroom is vital. Wiki extract: The vast majority (90% or more) of mushroom poisoning deaths are from eating the greenish to yellowish "death cap", (A. phalloides) or perhaps even one of the several white Amanita species which are known as destroying angels.

This has to be the worst experience I have encountered basically felt like poison. I very rarely react badly to even high doses of natural or synthetic substances but if you think Amanita Muscaria will be an effective tool for quitting think again. If you are very lucky you may have a Euphoric experience or perhaps 6 caps was to high a dose but be careful with this fungi. As a side note in combat the Vikings are believed to have engaged in disordered style of frenetic, furious fighting, leading them to be termed berserkers. They may have induced this mental state through ingestion of materials with psychoactive properties, such as the hallucinogenic mushrooms, Amanita muscaria, or perhaps just got raging drunk.
 
They are referring to the use of Soma in the book Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, it is not the same thing as what you are thinking, which as I understand it is some form of recreational drug that was used a long time ago by some kind of monks or something? I don't know the most about it, I remember a poster on here, ForEverAfter I believe, making a number of posts about their belief that Soma was in fact Amanita Muscaria and his experiences taking it in the Mushroom Thread in AusDD.
 
This sucks... to methadone or not, that is the predicament.

Will I be able to travel? Internationally? Interstate? Do I really have to go to the fucking place EVERY day to get it?

Liquid handcuffs, right? Shit.

But I'm too piss weak to get off. I don't have the will power to deal with benzo/opiate addiction at the moment, when things are shit.

The psychologist and even psychiatrist are recommending methadone. That surprised me. I could see the logic, though. The psychiatrist said if I'm stable on done then I will be better equiped to deal with the benzo nightmare.

But then, what happens after that? Deal with the methadone nightmare.

Eh, I made these choices I'll deal with it. Just venting :)

(Is it OK to vent in this thread?! Mods please delete me if I'm breaking the rules - yes, delete ME the person, not the account:!)
 
Methadone is a nightmarea when you're on it, a horrendously bad trip when you try to get off it and even when you are off it (the 0.001% who do and don't relapse within a month) are left with the longest lasting PAWs, permanent mental damage. no better off than they previously were and forever branded as a junkie, even if they have been clean for decades or placed on the program, for pain (which it doesn't even work wor).

LLiquid handcuffs is an inadequate way to describe it. It's a death sentence. Once you've made the step, there''s no turning back. It's more like being bound, chained, drawn and quartered in solitary confienment in gitmo with no chance of recovery, this is just to yourself physically. I won't go into the mental details, but another major positive of this "hugely successful opiod treatment program" is the fact tat you will never have a normal life again. You will be forever sugject to discriminitation in all works of life, have the whole medical profession look down at you like some kind of drug seeking leper with hypochondria and no chance of rehabilitation, unless you drink the fould tasting liquid fo rthe rest of your life. Then you only get treated like a leper, not a drug seeking terrorist even though you simply want antibiotics because your face is starting to peel off. (It's all the drugs, stop taking the drugs and all your problems with wither away and die, just like I hope you do) This is being said to you while being suicidally depressed, in agonizing pain and gettnig absolutely no sympathy or understanding at all from a medication that they sometimes forced onto you in the first place.

I would never recommend methadone to anybody. I wouldn't discourage it either, but there is no way in enlightened peace that I could ever encourage somebody to start a methadone treatment.

Fucking drug war.

Bupe is a little better, I suppose. But here's a novel idea. Give a heroin addict... HEROIN. a morphine addict... MORPHINE, an oxy addict... Let me see. OZY. There goes 95 percent of all the megatives. What rational reason is there apart from these drugs last longer? What about fast metabolises you need to use methadone at least twice dailyanyway? "Oh, they're only despicable junkies, they're probably lying so they can get more of thie shitty drug that barely helpe at all except for keeping the withdrawals away. No matter they still can't work regular jobs, their metnal health and the root causes of them are still very much apparent. Let's give them every anti-depressant under the sun, even though know they work just as good as placebos and have horrendous side-effects as well.: Hahaa.

Paxman vs Brand

One more thought, Methadone is like the popular Eagles Song: Hotel California.
 
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you will never have a normal life again. You will be forever sugject to discriminitation in all works of life, have the whole medical profession look down at you like some kind of drug seeking leper with hypochondria and no chance of rehabilitation

Yes, this is exactly what's bothering me.

I've never been 'normal', but I've been able to live a decent life with plenty of friends, worldly experiences through travel, holding jobs for years at a time.

It is very important to me to be off the radar. What you describe - being subjected to discrimination - would finish off any chance of me getting out of this mess I've been in for nearly two years now. Two very messy years out of 35 isn't too bad when you look at it that way.

Fuck it. Fuck the system. I'll do it my own way.

opi8: you just described every fear I had about going onto the methadone program, and helped me make the decision not to do it. It is MY decision, but I thank you for helping me clarify it.

I used to be strong, mentally and physically. The will is still there, buried under a tonne of shit. But I've got a morbid determination to do things my way, and maintain my status as a nobody in the eyes of the powers that be. Freedom.

Wish me luck.
 
Good luck halif.

You're a good soul and you will find a way through this part of your life.
Be patient, and hard as it may be; keep believing in yourself (or 'learn to believe in yourself'; whichever is more applicable).
Two shitty years out of your life may seem insurmountable to break out of...but I know you have the wisdom and the strength - even if it is hiding from you - to kick these monkeys off your back.
You're not alone, so don't be a stranger (apologies for being one myself...)
 
Holy Hell - the Junk is back to wish me well!

Thanks. Really. You, opi8, Captain Brewster, and others have helped me to make a big decision which I am sure is the right one despite the inconvenience and suffering in the (hopefully) short term. No methadone. No programs.

I'm going to claw my way back to something like what I was once before: depressed but coping and a support to my family.

Thank you all, and I'll be in touch soon Mr Spacejunk:)
 
Yeah, check out any time u want but u can never leave lol

Methadone is a nightmarea when you're on it, a horrendously bad trip when you try to get off it and even when you are off it (the 0.001% who do and don't relapse within a month) are left with the longest lasting PAWs, permanent mental damage. no better off than they previously were and forever branded as a junkie, even if they have been clean for decades or placed on the program, for pain (which it doesn't even work wor).

LLiquid handcuffs is an inadequate way to describe it. It's a death sentence. Once you've made the step, there''s no turning back. It's more like being bound, chained, drawn and quartered in solitary confienment in gitmo with no chance of recovery, this is just to yourself physically. I won't go into the mental details, but another major positive of this "hugely successful opiod treatment program" is the fact tat you will never have a normal life again. You will be forever sugject to discriminitation in all works of life, have the whole medical profession look down at you like some kind of drug seeking leper with hypochondria and no chance of rehabilitation, unless you drink the fould tasting liquid fo rthe rest of your life. Then you only get treated like a leper, not a drug seeking terrorist even though you simply want antibiotics because your face is starting to peel off. (It's all the drugs, stop taking the drugs and all your problems with wither away and die, just like I hope you do) This is being said to you while being suicidally depressed, in agonizing pain and gettnig absolutely no sympathy or understanding at all from a medication that they sometimes forced onto you in the first place.

I would never recommend methadone to anybody. I wouldn't discourage it either, but there is no way in enlightened peace that I could ever encourage somebody to start a methadone treatment.

Fucking drug war.

Bupe is a little better, I suppose. But here's a novel idea. Give a heroin addict... HEROIN. a morphine addict... MORPHINE, an oxy addict... Let me see. OZY. There goes 95 percent of all the megatives. What rational reason is there apart from these drugs last longer? What about fast metabolises you need to use methadone at least twice dailyanyway? "Oh, they're only despicable junkies, they're probably lying so they can get more of thie shitty drug that barely helpe at all except for keeping the withdrawals away. No matter they still can't work regular jobs, their metnal health and the root causes of them are still very much apparent. Let's give them every anti-depressant under the sun, even though know they work just as good as placebos and have horrendous side-effects as well.: Hahaa.

Paxman vs Brand

One more thought, Methadone is like the popular Eagles Song: Hotel California.

What you're saying is true. The unfortunate thing is we live in a society that's approach to chemical dependence is unlikely to change in our life time.

I am no moral compass in terms of addiction. 5+ rehabs ect... Still in active addiction to Ritalin and Benzos.
Regarding methadone and suboxone I will say one thing.
Methadone is as u put it is 'liquid handcuffs'. Suboxone then in comparison probably 'glad wrap' handcuffs.

I've made a total of 2 good drug decisions in my life. 1 was never touched ice and no. 2 was getting of methadone within 6 months. Went CT from 50mg of done and waited the 3 days and switched to bupe. Got of bupe within 3 months. Lasted a year before getting back on bupe at 2mg and have stayed there now for 6 months.
Methadone is the fucking devil. I knew if I stayed on it I would never get off it and be at the pharmacy daily ect...
I put on 20kgs in 3 months and was not myself at all.
Suboxone is what it is. A maintanence dose of bupe really need not ever be more than 8mg. It's not perfect but after the first 2 weeks it really doesn't do anything past stopping your using.
I found it quite easy to get off as have many other people I've met.
I stay on 2mg now just to completely avoid entertaining any usage. Even if I stop my dose for 3 days I get 0.1 effect at best.
It's not ideal but low dose bupe saved my life as methadone was leading me down a one way track.

PLUR
 
Thanks for the info, Hunter.

I never liked the idea of Suboxone, because to be honest, I don't want to stop using opiates. They do something that nothing else does - give me respite from the internal horror which I've lived with for many years.

What I want to do is get off temporarily, as I have done in the past after extended periods of use, and remember what it's like to live sober. Re-build my coping mechanisms. Get physically healthy again. Learn to ride the ups and downs as I have done since I was a teen.

Get back to that stage where I can use opiates when I can't handle it myself, rather than use them because I need them to feel normal.

It's hard to get off. And if you start using occasionally again, you may well end up using daily again. But this is not something that I see as a bad thing, necessarily.

Like Christ! said in the poppy cultivation thread, he likes the fact that producing your own opium is seasonal. I used to like that, too. Springtime was a magical time, and something to look forward to. SPend months tending the growing plants, enjoy the produce, go back to being clean. If i could, I'd do just that. I mean, if I had property which could accommodate such a thing I'd happily follow the seasonal cycle, with the occasional CWE in the dry months. I did that happily for years.

Then the burdens I've been carrying for years reaching critical mass, and when the last season ended I couldn't let it go and moved on to whatever I could get.

I hate the thought of methadone being a horrible trap which saps your livelyhood and makes you a prisoner. But I also dislike the idea of taking Suboxone which removes my choice to use when I want - even if that is a poor choice, I want to make it myself.

I don't know what my purpose in life is, but at least one thing I would love to master is the discipline of moderation. I know that's something that I may or may not achieve, but it's one of the best virtues I can think of striving for....
 
It's a cliche I'm sick of hearing but its pretty bang on.
All the rationale and reason that should stop you from using whatever substance means zero until you yourself are really done with it. The 'last times' and 'I'm fucked already what difference just this use make?'.
You're not there yet by what you said. Knowing and admitting that is actually really brave and honest.
Just get there eventually yeah...
 
You're not there yet by what you said.

Where?


Just get there eventually yeah...


You mean get there as in quite completely? Or get there as in get it under control?

If you mean quit - I don't want to. Ever. I want to get my usage back under control - the moderation I was talking about - but I don't see the reason to stop something that I really love. I let things get out of hand due to a build up of stress, and that I take responsibility for.

Although my posts of late have been whining and complaining (with reason, I have some serious circumstantial issues that are unrelated to substance abuse), the fact is that the majority of my opiate use (about eight years now in total, on and off) was similar to the way people have a drink once or twice a week. I've never broken the law by stealing or ripping people off in any way, and I don't plan to. The only law broken is that of the possession and consumption of a substance I enjoy.

People can drink alcohol legally. Marijuana use is not viewed as harshly (by the law or general public) as it once was. But opiates have still got the big stigma. It's a shame, really. If I were allowed to grow my own poppies for personal use, I'd be set. I think opium is the best substance on Earth. I use pretty much any opiate/opioid I can get, but I don't shoot up because I don't need a rush. I like it to come on slowly and last a long time. That's when I feel normal and content, not so much wasted or high. I don't like nodding either.
 
Ive been having Neurofeedback to assist in quitting. As relaxing as it was it didnt 'really' make me not think about it and at times I was forking out cash both ways to shrink and dealer.

For 6 or 7 years I have been scoring from the same guy. He is a very good friend.

Its been over a week since I used, and on Thursday we found out the devistating news, a lump in his leg is BAD. Its not drug related as far as the Drs are concerned. Op and chemo start next week, but he has been advised the outlook is not good. Treatment will prolong, not save :-(

Im totally devo. He holds a special place in my heart. Selfishly as far as my ability to now aquire drugs goes, its a good thing. I have no desire to sorce anywhere else.

This positive could not be under more SHIT circumstances.
 
Terrible to hear popeye.

well i'm 43 hours into quitting. The first day was absolutely fucking hell. I waited 19 hours before I took the subutex and it did nothing. I tried 1mg first, then an hour later 2mg then 4mg a few hours later and another 4mg about 2 hours after that. Nothing worked. I was still withdrawing at +30 hours. The reason why i was so cautious is that my last two attempts to quit in December have all resulted in precipitated withdrawals, resulting on me going back onto the sauce.

I finally gave in an had a shot of bupe at 4am and it finally finally held me. Its like doesn't work anymore under the tounge which is really upsetting because i wanted to move away from needles and shit.

its hard not being able to talk about this stuff but i'm doing it. but whatever, life has to go on. i think i'm off to the beach tomorrow. bit of sun and water will help me forget this shit.
 
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