Post a chemical that you think has some serious potential to become a winner in the RC market

[Delmonte421]

rodent head twitch test,

rodent twitch test publication for info, I didn't know what he meant

 

[Delmonte421]

Well that could turn out to be a bit of a dud to use then. I wasn't too crazy about 5-APB. It was probably a commercial success for it's producers though.

do you have a background in medicinal chemistry and know about the metabolites of these compounds or do you have chemspider and just draw compounds that fallow the octane rule? Im being 100 serious

 

[simstim]

do you have a background in medicinal chemistry and know about the metabolites of these compounds or do you have chemspider and just draw compounds that fallow the octane rule? Im being 100 serious

No I don't know much too about the metabolism of these chemicals. I don't figure many of the chemicals that come out of china come out with known metabolisms in the beginning. or at least they didn't in the past. The point of the thread was to post chemicals that you believe have real potential to become a sales success on the research chemical market.

It's not "post a new safe alternative to something that's probably illegal".

More like post something cheap yet effective that can be sold on the RC market for awhile.

 

[Delmonte421]

No I don't know much too about the metabolism of these chemicals. I don't figure many of the chemicals that come out of china come out with known metabolisms in the beginning. or at least they didn't in the past. The point of the thread was to post chemicals that you believe have real potential to become a sales success on the research chemical market.

It's not "post a new safe alternative to something that's probably illegal".

More like post something cheap yet effective that can be sold on the RC market for awhile.

ok its of no offensive too you, but it let me know I can maybe explain some things a little further that might help you understand why or if these compounds can work. @Fertile has an extensive background in the structure of opiates and etc I am unsure of his knowledge with other novel compounds that relate to MDMA or meth but im sure he's on of the more knowledge people on this form.

Its why is someone says something I don't understand and need to look up, I figure someone else might not understand it either so ill post a publication or something .gov/.edu the can explain it etc

 

[paracelsius]

I'm gonna go ahead and post this one here.

The beta ketone serves the purpose of disrupting function as an MAOi (N-Me-αMT is a putative triple monoamine releasing agent and an MAOi) and the n-methyl prevents the ready formation of a dimer.

βK-α,N-DMT aka beta keto n-methyl αMT
aka "tryptalone" as suggested as a name by @paracelsius in another thread

Wikipedia lists a 5-Fluro derivative of this and a relevant patent however I cannot retrieve the patent.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has already been prepared by someone once upon a time.

This was suggested by @paracelsius. I call it "tryptaPV". It is very similar to α-naphyrone which is relatively unknown pharmacologically according to wikipedia since all the research was done with β-naphyrone.

Here is α-naphyrone for comparison

The alfa-methyl-bK-tryptamine is very interesting: It is a actually a selective Dopamine-Serotonin releaser with pretty zero Norpeniphrine. so that one would be pure MDMA-like entactogen about 2x as potent. Since no NE I suspect would be non-stimulant, no cardiovascular issues. Really very interesting compound: It is extremely rare (very rare) to have this kind of profile: Selective DA-SERT with no NE. very few compounds I come across are like that. Usually anything that release Dopamine would also release NE (very hard to separate the two like with this compound.

As for the naphyrone, there no much difference between the alfa-sub and the beta-sub well I mean something like beta is 1.4x more active than alfa.. but then again it is still about 2xMDMA... later put ref when time permited.... Good'day ALL BLighters. Stay Safe Out There.
t

 

[simstim]

This nothing new. I just wish someone would make it

5-EtO-DIPT

 

[simstim]

This one is from wikipedia
IHCH-7113 is a 5ht2a agonist that illicits a head twitch response "comparable to DOI or LSD".

This looks way easier to make than LSD

Lots of references are on the wiki article

IHCH-7113 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AlsoTapered]

Again - if it's not facile, it won't work.

Copy the SMILES into PubChem and voila - all of the references including the synthesis.

 

[simstim]

Ok so this is based upon MMDA-2 and MDAT (methylenedioxyaminotetralin). Basically the methoxy of MMDA-2 is constrained into a ring with the alpha methyl group.

MDAT fully substitutes for MDMA is rodents(https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00164a037). Also, there is this article about rigid analogs of DOM but I do not believe the article states that DOM-AT (the aminotetralin of DOM) substitutes for DOM. I do not have full access to the article, though. Does anyone know how to get access?

Potential psychotomimetics. 2. Rigid analogs of 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylphenylisopropylamine (DOM, STP) - PubMed

Potential psychotomimetics. 2. Rigid analogs of 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylphenylisopropylamine (DOM, STP)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Anywho this might substitute for MMDA-2 which is reportedly psychedelic. If not it could be more MDAT like (MDMA like).
Either way I would guinea pig it if it were available or cheap to synth."

"methylendioxydihydrobenzopyranamine"
"MDDHBP"
"methylenedioxychromanamine"

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I'd say they belong to no one and/or all of us.
But I guess I understand your sentiment.

Are you saying that guy was lying about synthing an etorphine-level opioid from bupe? I mean he could have been, which is why I came to ask people more knowledgeable than me about chemistry topics.

It's amazing to think bupe could hold the potential to become a full agonist with some steps.

I was just curious is all. And enjoy learning, so no need for hostility.


I've read that mixing acetic anhydrous with almost any opiate/opioid changes it into another obscure opioid. Is this true/possible? And would acetic acid in vinegar be sufficient or are we talking needing lab grade equipment and chemicals?


Sorry for my ignorance.

I have read you can synth codeine into hydromorphone with a 66% yield. So 300 mg codeine = 200 dilaudid. Only one ingredient needed if I remembr right.

 

[simstim]

Assuming an unlimited budget for synthesizing new compounds to try I would test this one for activity.

I don't know how this one is named. It's another chromanamine. The idea is for the oxygens to be in the same position as TMA-6 or 2,6-dimethoxy-4-bromoamphetamine.

 

[AlsoTapered]

The tetrahydropyran isn't planer so it will distort the position of the amine. You need to keep the oxygens planer to the benzene. Overlay it with TCB-2 to see if it's still viable... although whatever the case, I would wonder about metabolism. The amine might be oxidized and who knows what the activity of the metabolite will be.

 

[simstim]

I feel lucky on this one.

The tetrahydropyran isn't planer so it will distort the position of the amine. You need to keep the oxygens planer to the benzene. Overlay it with TCB-2 to see if it's still viable... although whatever the case, I would wonder about metabolism. The amine might be oxidized and who knows what the activity of the metabolite will be.

I did not say that it would be the most potent. Only predicting activity.

I found a reference to chroman-3-amine based antidepressants but I cannot find it again. I found another which reference to stimulant properties of chroman-3-amines but I have no access (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00278a026).

I have this hardcore fetish for mephedrone and 4,4'-DMAR so I feel really lucky about the equivalent methylaminochromanone and can confidently tell you if anyone made it I would be the guinea pig.

Here is 7-methyl-3-methylaminochromanone and I wish someone would make it for me.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Lots of things have been made, but didn't cut it for one reason or another. Try PubChem

 

[Morbid Sea Cow]

para-fluoroOhmecarfentanil

 

[AlsoTapered]

It has 8 enantiomers and so unless you intend to resolve and throw away 87.5%, it isn't as potent as one might imagine.

Carfentanil is achiral. So it's practially more potent. R-30490 is actually a lot more potent and is also achiral.

But moving to the Bentley compounds.... some of those derivatives are even more potent AND have much longer durations of action...

And their are worse....

 

[Morbid Sea Cow]

It has 8 enantiomers and so unless you intend to resolve and throw away 87.5%, it isn't as potent as one might imagine.

Carfentanil is achiral. So it's practially more potent. R-30490 is actually a lot more potent and is also achiral.

But moving to the Bentley compounds.... some of those derivatives are even more potent AND have much longer durations of action...

And their are worse....

This molecules absolute mess of stereochemistry should not be seen as something to deter people from further researching such a promising compound.

 

[AlsoTapered]

This molecules absolute mess of stereochemistry should not be seen as something to deter people from further researching such a promising compound.

So you have investigated the resolution? Maybe 2 isomers is worth it - 8, NEVER. Especially since I listed MORE potent compounds that are achiral. I mean, R-30490 is more potent that the MOST potent OHMEfentanyl analogue.

Get a grip...

 

[Morbid Sea Cow]

So you have investigated the resolution? Maybe 2 isomers is worth it - 8, NEVER. Especially since I listed MORE potent compounds that are achiral. I mean, R-30490 is more potent that the MOST potent OHMEfentanyl analogue.

Get a grip...

Just because we have more potent opioids doesn't mean we should stop researching new ones. If researchers had that mindset we would be stuck with our extremely primitive pharmacology of the past. Should we completely stop researching phytocannabinoids, drop to our knees and just accept that it doesn't get any better than something like THCP? Of course not, that's ridiculous.

Further, I think you're exaggerating the potency of R-30490, it may be more potent than the ohmefantalogues, but it itself isn't even as potent as carfentanil. Ohmefentanyl combines the beta-hydroxy and 3-methyl substitutions into a single molecule, enhanching the potency and increasing the therapeutic index compared to any of its three parent molecules - fentanyl and the 3-methyl/beta-hydroxy analogues. Ohmefentanyl alone, however, leaves out one very important potency enhancing group in the fentanyl series, the 4-carbomethoxy group. When you join the ohmefentanyl scaffold with the 4-carbomethoxy you get Ohmecarfentanil. This ligand has greatly enhanced lipid solubility and likely has increased mu-affinity. The potency estimates provided by FI Carroll, if I'm not mistaken, are somewhere between 35,000 to 50,000 morphine.

 

[MBaggott]

MDAT fully substitutes for MDMA is rodents(https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00164a037). Also, there is this article about rigid analogs of DOM but I do not believe the article states that DOM-AT (the aminotetralin of DOM) substitutes for DOM. I do not have full access to the article, though. Does anyone know how to get access?

Potential psychotomimetics. 2. Rigid analogs of 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylphenylisopropylamine (DOM, STP) - PubMed

Potential psychotomimetics. 2. Rigid analogs of 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylphenylisopropylamine (DOM, STP)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is Sci-hub blocked where you are?

https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1021/jm00248a004