P&S Alternative Theories thread v. orange tang

[Ninae]

Never mind that, I notice many people have a hatred of anyone who can interpret Christ's teachings in any effective way.

 

[GodandLove]

Never mind that, I notice many people have a hatred of anyone who can interpret Christ's teachings in any effective way.

You talkin bout my son?

Yeah that little brat was a star wasn't he?

I taught him everything he knows.....and I aint get no credit.

 

[sexNcandy]

Never mind that, I notice many people have a hatred of anyone who can interpret Christ's teachings in any effective way.

You're all hung up on this son of god talk, why don't you ever speak of the father of god? Or do you not like the grandfather much?

 

[Felonious Monk]

I like this thread. The initial link, meh, but in general, there's something to be said for humans vs ants VS universe vs humans. And I don't mean versus, I mean as in a comparison to something larger and more complex than we can comprehend.

But all this Jesus whatnot... how'd we get to that? Take it or leave it there's some okay stuff in Jesus's "teachings" (none of it is his, it's all what others said he said/taught). But ALL OF IT can be found elsewhere, and better written too. You don't need Jesus to be a good person, and you sure as fuck don't need Jesus to reach some higher plane of existence (in fact, Christianity is all about this plane--it's to make the peasants happy with their shit situation in life--that's why it has to twisted so badly to make it work for the "prosperity gospel")

Maybe there are forms of consciousness/knowing/being we have yet to evolve into and coalesce with/into

I like this idea actually. Like maybe psychedelics connect us to that higher plane only briefly, giving us a glimpse, but each person turned is only an atom, we need the tide to turn, when every person (or enough to overcome the status quo) will have been opened to these unseen worlds.

Isn't it possible more advanced beings have evolved beyond the need for matter to be paired with paired with their energy? How could we, as mortal matter, comprehend a being that existed as purely energy? How would we know if the Earth was populated with beings of their dimension? What if the beings that people see when they "break through" on DMT are really here all the time, and it just takes a little extra to be aware of them? What if the vibrational energy we feel on LSD is more real than reality?

Just things we can't know yet, but if we survive long enough as a species than we will.
http://wedietoremember.com/

 

[What 23]

@what23: to be honest i've never heard anyone interpret that phrase in any other way than i did (maybe they mashed it up with an 'eye for an eye' or something)

Wikipedia on Nietzsche's criticism of Jesus:

Nietzsche, nineteenth century philosopher, has many criticisms of Jesus and Christianity, even going so far as to style himself as The Anti-Christ. In Human, All Too Human, and Twilight of the Idols for example, Nietzsche accuses the Church's and Jesus' teachings as being anti-natural in their treatment of passions, in particularly sexuality: "There [In the Sermon on the Mount] it is said, for example, with particular reference to sexuality: 'If thy eye offend thee, pluck it out.' Fortunately, no Christian acts in accordance with this precept[19]... the Christian who follows that advice and believes he has killed his sensuality is deceiving himself: it lives on in an uncanny vampire form and torments in repulsive disguises."[20] Nietzsche does explicitly consider Jesus as a mortal, and furthermore as ultimately misguided, the antithesis of a true hero, whom he posits with his concept of a Dionysian hero.

However Nietzsche did not demur of Jesus, saying he was the "only one true Christian". He presented a Christ whose own inner life consisted of "blessedness in peace, in gentleness, in the inability for enmity". There is much criticism by Nietzsche of the organized institution of Christianity and its class of priests. Christ's evangelism consisted of the good news that the kingdom of God is within you.[21] "What are the 'glad tidings'? True life, eternal life is found—it is not promised, it is here, it is within you: as life lived in love.... 'Sin', every kind of distancing relationship between God and man, is abolished - precisely this is the 'glad tidings'. The 'glad tidings' are precisely that there are no more opposites...."

Jesus also makes other references, to the full body that you die with, if you go to hell, going there too, if I'm not mistaken. I wouldn't doubt that he was also quite literal with his words, even if also speaking allegorically, how you say.

The man killed a fig tree because it didn't bear fruit when he was hungry, and it wasn't even the season for it to bear fruit. And this was a "miracle" to those that followed him, because it proved his power was real. I wouldn't doubt that he just had a good eye and spotted some kind of disease that others didn't have awareness of.

@Felonious Monk - But did we not "need" him? With the Christianization of Europe, there was a uniting principle, right? And under this, the Bible was the first mass produced book, which spread literacy, and contrary to what some might think, actually led to an increase in science. Jesus may have acted as a catalyst. It might have been "someone else" or something else, but it did do some good, and for us to be having this conversation, it very well may have needed him. This is also a question.

 

[Vurtual]

^ Thanks for the clarification, though nietzche wouldn't be my usual source of bible analysis... I didn't really think about it in a sexual context to be honest, as it works for me for all sorts of snobbery or bigotry. Without looking it up in the bible, i still prefer to think it was meant as an absurdity, as in who'd pluck their own eye out, or like a mirror of 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. Of course the meaning phrases end up with say nothing about their original use (eg humble pie being originally a pie made in a really poor place called umbal or something (maybe an urban myth...))

I think it's hard to make much sense of what jesus said in the gospels as there are clearly different moods and emphases in each due to their differing intended audiences and linguistic/cultural contexts (not to mention the other gospels); except maybe for the obvious sensible social messages of love your enemy etc (not sensible to nietzche no doubt ) and some repurposed phrases.

While i'm not interested in being a christian, i definitely agree that there was lots of good stuff coming from the religion over the last two millenium, but imo that was numerous different innovative people working through the only available scholastic medium; maybe in western europe at least as much of a druidic heritage was involved feeding into celtic christianity's scholarship (they had 'colleges' of some sort)?). Certainly christianity at different stages provided particularly fertile ground for knowledge, though not as fertile as islam for a long while. But i tend to think the innovations of christian or muslim scholars could only come about with various other, arguably more important social/economic factors lining up as well.

 

[rickolasnice]

@Felonious Monk - But did we not "need" him? With the Christianization of Europe, there was a uniting principle, right? And under this, the Bible was the first mass produced book, which spread literacy, and contrary to what some might think, actually led to an increase in science. Jesus may have acted as a catalyst. It might have been "someone else" or something else, but it did do some good, and for us to be having this conversation, it very well may have needed him. This is also a question.

A uniting principal? During which war did that happen then?

Religion and science can't work together.. Religion is fighting against science (mainly in the USA by Christians) and in doing so have made atheists out to be spawn of Satan. Children are being told that the age of the earth is 6000 to 10000 years old, that dinosaurs walked with man (and were friends), evolution is a lie spun by lucifer, etc etc.

One of the most prevalent messages I found in the bible is to be subservient to and always obey authority figures. Sit down, shut up and be a good little sheep.

 

[What 23]

I don't dispute much of that...

I use unite loosely. I am mainly referring to how the Bible was the first mass produced book, and helped to spread literacy, which facilitated scientific thought. It was in a sense a common tongue through the nations of and influenced by the Roman empire.

And even as Christianity has been notorious for suppressing science, this doesn't mean people agree with and obey the church... And just like our drug laws against marijuana, may cause more people to mess with it. Building fences or walls make people wonder what's behind them, and look for ways around.

(Can any of this be disputed? Its really just words that seem to fit, that might fit, that I think I may have read before)

Anyways, science and religion aren't far off, in their roots.

I tend to think science makes more sense, but I also give that this could be a total illusion. Even then I have a healthy respect for science... But that doesn't mean I have made up my mind.

As for authority in the Bible, you must also take into account Jesus, who was sort of a rebel (though conversely known as the Lamb)...

From Matthew 23
"Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are…

Woe to you, blind guides! You say, “If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath. You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, “If anyone swears by the alter, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the alter that makes the gift sacred?"

 

[rickolasnice]

Oh yes.. Jesus..

Is it right to pay the imperial taxb to Caesar or not? 15Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”

But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

17Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him.

If you read the gospels according to Paul he is constantly going on about obeying authority figures..

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God.a
2
Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves.
3
For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil.b Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it,
4
for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer.c
5
Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience.d
6
This is why you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
7
Pay to all their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, toll to whom toll is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.e

1Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.

 

[What 23]

I agree with you.

When I read the Bible alone I get ticked. I just tend to try to argue when others have argument .

I can see the good in his words, but also, by them, Hitler of Nazi Germany was given his power by God, so if I was in Nazi Germany I should have obeyed... And if I were a Jew I should have trusted that I was in Gods hands, as I was marched to be gassed.

This may be true... But fuck that.
These are the kinds of things that make me flip off the sky and say "fuck you God", and challenge authority, and disobey.

 

[Ninae]

There's a difference between the Jesus who was here and the Jesus you can read about in the Bible. I've never cared to read much of the Bible. The First Testament is gross, and composed of the oldest and most primitive of Jewish teachings. The Second Testament inspired by Jesus' teachings, is in complete conflict with that, and a little bit better. But even that has mostly been rewritten and rewritten for political and financial power over the masses until it's almost unrecognisable from what he stood for. That is not why he interests me at all.

 

[Ninae]

What brings him into it is that he's said to be the supreme spiritual authority of the extra-terrestrial fleet. And from what I know of him from personal experience I find that reassuring.

 

[What 23]

From what source do you know of this fleet?

 

[Ninae]

Partly from the radio broadcasts on blogtalk.radio - they are very informative and actually make a lot of sense.

http://http://www.whoneedslight.net/channelpannel

 

[sexNcandy]

Is that your website by any chance? She writes a lot like you do here, in some ways, and about the same stuff


This is particularly interesting:




"
Frequently, our conversations continued long into the night, even as I slept, or during quiet times as I walked my dog. I asked questions about where they were (Gaia), whether they could see in the dark (no), whether they could hear my thoughts (yes), whether they could smell the flowers (yes), if they ever slept (no), if they missed being in a body (no), and what their hopes and dreams were (all positive and loving). As our relationship grew, I began to feel great affection for those beings who were helping me (and frequently giving me a hard time).

"


You also claim to talk to jesus inside your head and that he can hear your thoughts as well

 

[Ninae]

No lol

 

[Ninae]

Here is another transcript from a new channel message from Jesus/Sananada. It's more about what have had to happen before the landings can take place. But it's his tyical way of communicating:


http://http://textuploader.com/9hy9

 

[What 23]

http://http://textuploader.com/9hy9

The link didn't work... One too many http://s.

http://textuploader.com/9hy9

 

[Ninae]

http://textuploader.com/9goq

 

[Ninae]

They all show up here http://www.whoneedslight.net/page/482459648 eventually anyway.