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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
P&S Alternative Theories thread v. orange tang
- Thread starter Ninae
- Start date
Exactly. We like to think we're more evolved than the rest of the biological kingdom, but when you take a step back we're really not that much different. Just a slightly more complex animal, but still an animal.
Ninae: But you're forgetting they might have evolved reason, logic, whatever, beyond where we are now and that it may be closer to reality/the truth than what we have, and that they may see things from a different perspective. We're practicing a form of collective madness, and you have to be careful with your interaction with crazy people because you might set them off in a destructive fashion. Sometimes it's better to leave them be until they figure it out.
To further points for fun:
And ants communicate in a way that our scientists are still exploring; chemical excretions that enable a hive mind
Who knows? maybe other carbon based life will land here.
or
Maybe there are forms of consciousness/knowing/being we have yet to evolve into and coalesce with/into
metaphors are limited, because language is
And ants communicate in a way that our scientists are still exploring; chemical excretions that enable a hive mind
Who knows? maybe other carbon based life will land here.
or
Maybe there are forms of consciousness/knowing/being we have yet to evolve into and coalesce with/into
metaphors are limited, because language is
You're forgetting there's also such a thing as an evolution of the heart and not just the mind.
For spiritually advanced individuals the heart has a higher status while the mind is seen as somewhat primitive, like a cold computer. In this world we worship the mind, "scientifically", but other civilizations might not. You're judging them according to our values.
For spiritually advanced individuals the heart has a higher status while the mind is seen as somewhat primitive, like a cold computer. In this world we worship the mind, "scientifically", but other civilizations might not. You're judging them according to our values.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Maybe the aliens would rather hang out with the lizard people in the centre of the earth. It sure sounds like they'd get along together, being perfect ideal beings with no social or economic problems, infinite wealth and energy, and all that. Or some of those tricky murder angels.
Kittycat5
Bluelighter
Sekio, those lizard people are aliens. Thats the real reason for the landings. 
What 23
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While I think it would be awesome, I don't think it is very likely to happen. Is my (lack of) belief a limiting factor? And ours? I'm not sure. I guess I'll believe it when I see it.
I have been attempting, for curiosity and investigative purposes, to join a few of the "starseed" groups across the net. One doesn't seem to want to let me join. My application has been pending for days. The others I just tried to join today. Im also interested in finding a community that might be more willing to accept or listen to me. But I'm a skeptic. I have experiences. But I tend to call bullshit on so much of this.
Many people are very excited about this... Or perhaps not many, but there were many comments on one of the sites I went to where this was posted. People seem to really believe.
In a way I really want it to not happen, so imminently, to see how these people react, and justify it. When is imminent, anyways? But I'm curious if the author will see her bullshit. Is it bullshit?
But also, I'd be happy if it did occur... If there was more to us (not that this not happening would prove anything- that there is not more to us), and this offered a way to understand, or know more. I do believe there is "more to us", anyways, but I do often liken so much of this ("I'm a Starseed from Arcturus"/My star family/I have a mission and come from elsewhere", Etc.) to "bullshit, crazy bullshit that nobody should listen to/take seriously". Again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. And I have had experiences. But I won't say I am on a mission from Sirius B to accelerate the ascension of human kind or anything. Or Arcturus. And that I miss my blue-skinned perfect home family so dearly... ("My life here sucks, This can't be real... I'm trying to escape my insignificant life with these fantasies of being something special, and having special healing energy powers and love, love love while the microbes are at constant war in and around me, and the cell phones I use have conflict minerals"...). I'm sorry to prod and poke fun... If I seem like this is what I'm doing. I'd be happy to be wrong. Wouldn't that be neat? I'm still open, but my bullshit alarm... I just have a hard time silencing it.
What is a murder angel?
I have been attempting, for curiosity and investigative purposes, to join a few of the "starseed" groups across the net. One doesn't seem to want to let me join. My application has been pending for days. The others I just tried to join today. Im also interested in finding a community that might be more willing to accept or listen to me. But I'm a skeptic. I have experiences. But I tend to call bullshit on so much of this.
Many people are very excited about this... Or perhaps not many, but there were many comments on one of the sites I went to where this was posted. People seem to really believe.
In a way I really want it to not happen, so imminently, to see how these people react, and justify it. When is imminent, anyways? But I'm curious if the author will see her bullshit. Is it bullshit?
But also, I'd be happy if it did occur... If there was more to us (not that this not happening would prove anything- that there is not more to us), and this offered a way to understand, or know more. I do believe there is "more to us", anyways, but I do often liken so much of this ("I'm a Starseed from Arcturus"/My star family/I have a mission and come from elsewhere", Etc.) to "bullshit, crazy bullshit that nobody should listen to/take seriously". Again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. And I have had experiences. But I won't say I am on a mission from Sirius B to accelerate the ascension of human kind or anything. Or Arcturus. And that I miss my blue-skinned perfect home family so dearly... ("My life here sucks, This can't be real... I'm trying to escape my insignificant life with these fantasies of being something special, and having special healing energy powers and love, love love while the microbes are at constant war in and around me, and the cell phones I use have conflict minerals"...). I'm sorry to prod and poke fun... If I seem like this is what I'm doing. I'd be happy to be wrong. Wouldn't that be neat? I'm still open, but my bullshit alarm... I just have a hard time silencing it.
What is a murder angel?
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sekio
Bluelight Crew
You know, the people who exude angelic auras and have Biblical names and just happen to be involved in the murder of dozens of people. (That's for another thread, though.)
bit_pattern
Ex-Bluelighter
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This is by far the most likely answer.
You really caught me there.
But no, I think the main part of the problem is that those who deliver these messages from higher dimensions live outside of time. They don't see time like we do, they just see something coming up "soon" in our timeline, then something unpredicted can come along and delay that, etc. So what is "imminenet" to them can be a year or more to us. We are also very impatient, but they shouldn't keep teasing us like this year after year.
What 23
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^This is what I was talking about. I'm curious how those who support this, that "it will happen", will justify their continued belief year after year that it will happen, when it seems to fail to happen.
You can say things like this, and so can they. They can blame it on our belief that they are benevolent needing to reach 100% (was it? or near) for them to comfortably land, and there may always be (may) some divergence... And some that just simply don't believe at all, in anything. So this can be an excuse. That we just weren't ready (yet).
With all the ways we can justify, eventually anything we say can find truth. Eventually, we are all traveling on a circle, on which all points exist. And this may be the case, really, in a sense. It may help to see things this way, but it still doesn't negate the need for critical, logical thinking, and precision.
Sometimes the most precise I can be, I find, is saying something seems like something, perhaps, and maybe... And this is because I value honesty. This is one reason I have so much trouble with some of this "New Age" stuff. People come up with names, of places they are from, and specific details of different Aliens. They have names like "Galactic Starship This" and quite honestly, it just seems like something we would see in some laughable Star Trek knock off. And these people speak like its matter of fact.
Of course, I have also written about my own experience here, with angels, synchronicity, aliens, patterns. And I tend to see things. I've had crystals seem to relay a power through them, but its really hard for me to let it be ritual to believe that they did anything magical, because I believe my own focus, and mind, will exhibit the most "power"... But then it tells me not to discount anything it witnesses. That nothing is random, and I should reserve my judgment. So I let these things play. And if it does happen, if we are joined by our "family", I will be happy. But I am a skeptic.
I'm a skeptic, and I tend to fight a lot of demons, that ridicule. I judge. And try to reconcile as many angles as I cover.
At any rate, this may be not much different than religions and similar traditions of our past, and their predictions. As long as they aren't advocating death to the subhumans, and whatnot, I say its not hurting anyone, relatively. But it is interesting, reading about Starseeds recently... They, some of them, seem to have some strange ideas, about dark forces infiltrating their "ranks", and there seems to be classical signs of mental illness. Not that our doctors really have a handle on our illnesses. There is bickering, exclusion, and being on the inside (or out)... The same that happens in any other cult or religion. Some of these "Starseeds" are so hypocrtical, and wont associate with those who they don't believe to be like them. Not to associate this with who wrote this, but her audience are often these people. And not that they are all or even a majority of them are this way, but a good majority of them seem to believe... And belief to me can be a scary thing, especially when it is rested in another human as the conduit to God (not to say they can't provide it, but you are the conduit, you are the balance that it needs to find, to make any sense, to you).
But yes, people are notoriously impatient. I know I am. And this may cast a shadow on my perceptions/interpretations of words. But I do tend to see circles, sometimes.
You can say things like this, and so can they. They can blame it on our belief that they are benevolent needing to reach 100% (was it? or near) for them to comfortably land, and there may always be (may) some divergence... And some that just simply don't believe at all, in anything. So this can be an excuse. That we just weren't ready (yet).
With all the ways we can justify, eventually anything we say can find truth. Eventually, we are all traveling on a circle, on which all points exist. And this may be the case, really, in a sense. It may help to see things this way, but it still doesn't negate the need for critical, logical thinking, and precision.
Sometimes the most precise I can be, I find, is saying something seems like something, perhaps, and maybe... And this is because I value honesty. This is one reason I have so much trouble with some of this "New Age" stuff. People come up with names, of places they are from, and specific details of different Aliens. They have names like "Galactic Starship This" and quite honestly, it just seems like something we would see in some laughable Star Trek knock off. And these people speak like its matter of fact.
Of course, I have also written about my own experience here, with angels, synchronicity, aliens, patterns. And I tend to see things. I've had crystals seem to relay a power through them, but its really hard for me to let it be ritual to believe that they did anything magical, because I believe my own focus, and mind, will exhibit the most "power"... But then it tells me not to discount anything it witnesses. That nothing is random, and I should reserve my judgment. So I let these things play. And if it does happen, if we are joined by our "family", I will be happy. But I am a skeptic.
I'm a skeptic, and I tend to fight a lot of demons, that ridicule. I judge. And try to reconcile as many angles as I cover.
At any rate, this may be not much different than religions and similar traditions of our past, and their predictions. As long as they aren't advocating death to the subhumans, and whatnot, I say its not hurting anyone, relatively. But it is interesting, reading about Starseeds recently... They, some of them, seem to have some strange ideas, about dark forces infiltrating their "ranks", and there seems to be classical signs of mental illness. Not that our doctors really have a handle on our illnesses. There is bickering, exclusion, and being on the inside (or out)... The same that happens in any other cult or religion. Some of these "Starseeds" are so hypocrtical, and wont associate with those who they don't believe to be like them. Not to associate this with who wrote this, but her audience are often these people. And not that they are all or even a majority of them are this way, but a good majority of them seem to believe... And belief to me can be a scary thing, especially when it is rested in another human as the conduit to God (not to say they can't provide it, but you are the conduit, you are the balance that it needs to find, to make any sense, to you).
But yes, people are notoriously impatient. I know I am. And this may cast a shadow on my perceptions/interpretations of words. But I do tend to see circles, sometimes.
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The "Sirians" seem to be especially active here. They are the extra-terrestrial civilization said to have inspired the Egyptian culture. Isis has been said to be a female from Sirius who was worshipped as a goddess, etc. and they set up their pyramids with holes in them so the light from Sirius could shine through.
This feels kind of familiar and I know I had many Egyptian lifetimes. That is where we, from Atlantis, continued that culture after it sank. I think extra-terrestrial contact was just commonplace, then, as well as their technology being superior to ours in some ways.
This feels kind of familiar and I know I had many Egyptian lifetimes. That is where we, from Atlantis, continued that culture after it sank. I think extra-terrestrial contact was just commonplace, then, as well as their technology being superior to ours in some ways.
What 23
Ex-Bluelighter
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My password for quite a while had/has been Sirius(xx), on at least a couple of things. I find it interesting that the Dogons knew about Sirius B, and knew even more specifics.
I've often wondered if that was the earth and moon I saw through the opening in the "ship" in my dream, or if it was Sirius, or Cassiopeia, or what. There was seemingly a Blue star (blue white it would have been), and a small white star that seemed in its orbit.
I've often wondered if that was the earth and moon I saw through the opening in the "ship" in my dream, or if it was Sirius, or Cassiopeia, or what. There was seemingly a Blue star (blue white it would have been), and a small white star that seemed in its orbit.
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In "Cleopatra" with Elizabeth Taylor she says "I am Isis".
I don't know if she means she's channeling the goddess or that she's a later incarnation of her.
And Cleopatra has always been powerful, although she got on my nerves, even if she was very well disposed towards me. But I wasn't very happy to be one of her servants. It wasn't something that seemed very glamorous at the time.
I don't know if she means she's channeling the goddess or that she's a later incarnation of her.
And Cleopatra has always been powerful, although she got on my nerves, even if she was very well disposed towards me. But I wasn't very happy to be one of her servants. It wasn't something that seemed very glamorous at the time.
<nerd shit>
I am highly skeptical that the speed of light is any sort of constraint on a more advanced civilization. The actual speed is three hundred thousand kilometers per second. If you remove the time component, you're just left with a distance. We've already known for decades that the passage of time is relative to gravitational force. Einstein made a pretty big deal about it in his groundbreaking book on relativity. The most plausible theory for faster-than-light (FTL) travel arose from that under the name Alcubierre drive, which suggests that, given what we already know about the nature of space-time1, some sort of vehicle could move FTL if "a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (i.e. negative mass) could be created."2 So basically, if you were to abuse space-time a bit and create a field (sort of like a pressure gradient, but dealing with gravity rather than fluids) in which time moves at a faster rate than time outside the field, you could theoretically travel at one tenth the speed of light inside the field but, relative to time outside the field, the time spent travelling inside the field would correlate with an object movingFTL at light speed.
The most significant issue with this is that everything is still relative to the speed of light. I get something of a nonsense answer if I even try to calculate time dilation relative to an object moving FTL (unless you accept the premise that time can be wound backwards). The conclusion that seems most logical is that, once you pass the speed of light, regardless of how little time passes for you, to everyone outside of your warp bubble/gradient, you're always stuck moving at the constant speed of light. In other words, if you were traveling 10x FTL (three million km/s), you could do a round-trip to a planet fifty lightyears (ly) away in just ten years your time, but you would still arrive home to an Earth on which a hundred years has passed since you left, just the same as if you had only been travelling at lightspeed (300,000 km/s). There's a lot of great speculative fiction dealing with the effects of time dilation3, most famously Joe Haldeman's novel The Forever War, although that mostly deals with accelerating and decelerating from near light-speed (but, obviously, given how difficult it is to calculate time dilation at FTL speeds, this makes the most sense).
Contemplate for a moment the possibility that some advanced civilization a thousand ly away has already sent probes to Earth and they have arrived. Regardless of whether or not they traveled at or beyond light speed, at the very least a thousand years has passed on the planet from which they were dispatched. Assuming they phone home, it would take another thousand years for the probes to return the message that something was found. Assuming the origin planet is one of the "goldilocks" planets, it's likely that they're caught up in similar planetary, solar and stellar gravity wells that make the rate of the alien civilization's time pass at roughly the same rate as it passes for us on Earth. Therefore, it could take thousands of years on both sides for any advanced civilization to even figure out how to communicate with us before actually deciding to do so.
So if you think about it, for us to even be able to participate in any sort of interstellar politics, the human lifespan would likely need to be extended quite a fair bit to sustain the motivation to try and communicate with potential pen pals we would not even hear from for ages at a time, and if you were to see a UFO today, the race that sent it may not even know of your existence for another millenium.
</nerd shit>
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I am highly skeptical that the speed of light is any sort of constraint on a more advanced civilization. The actual speed is three hundred thousand kilometers per second. If you remove the time component, you're just left with a distance. We've already known for decades that the passage of time is relative to gravitational force. Einstein made a pretty big deal about it in his groundbreaking book on relativity. The most plausible theory for faster-than-light (FTL) travel arose from that under the name Alcubierre drive, which suggests that, given what we already know about the nature of space-time1, some sort of vehicle could move FTL if "a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (i.e. negative mass) could be created."2 So basically, if you were to abuse space-time a bit and create a field (sort of like a pressure gradient, but dealing with gravity rather than fluids) in which time moves at a faster rate than time outside the field, you could theoretically travel at one tenth the speed of light inside the field but, relative to time outside the field, the time spent travelling inside the field would correlate with an object moving
The most significant issue with this is that everything is still relative to the speed of light. I get something of a nonsense answer if I even try to calculate time dilation relative to an object moving FTL (unless you accept the premise that time can be wound backwards). The conclusion that seems most logical is that, once you pass the speed of light, regardless of how little time passes for you, to everyone outside of your warp bubble/gradient, you're always stuck moving at the constant speed of light. In other words, if you were traveling 10x FTL (three million km/s), you could do a round-trip to a planet fifty lightyears (ly) away in just ten years your time, but you would still arrive home to an Earth on which a hundred years has passed since you left, just the same as if you had only been travelling at lightspeed (300,000 km/s). There's a lot of great speculative fiction dealing with the effects of time dilation3, most famously Joe Haldeman's novel The Forever War, although that mostly deals with accelerating and decelerating from near light-speed (but, obviously, given how difficult it is to calculate time dilation at FTL speeds, this makes the most sense).
Contemplate for a moment the possibility that some advanced civilization a thousand ly away has already sent probes to Earth and they have arrived. Regardless of whether or not they traveled at or beyond light speed, at the very least a thousand years has passed on the planet from which they were dispatched. Assuming they phone home, it would take another thousand years for the probes to return the message that something was found. Assuming the origin planet is one of the "goldilocks" planets, it's likely that they're caught up in similar planetary, solar and stellar gravity wells that make the rate of the alien civilization's time pass at roughly the same rate as it passes for us on Earth. Therefore, it could take thousands of years on both sides for any advanced civilization to even figure out how to communicate with us before actually deciding to do so.
So if you think about it, for us to even be able to participate in any sort of interstellar politics, the human lifespan would likely need to be extended quite a fair bit to sustain the motivation to try and communicate with potential pen pals we would not even hear from for ages at a time, and if you were to see a UFO today, the race that sent it may not even know of your existence for another millenium.
</nerd shit>
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