N.A. meetings and judgmental people

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I think the most important part of Laceys post was where she capitalized in the middle. So many people get on methadone and suboxone just expecting things to get better but if you're not willing to force change in your life absolutely nothing will change.

Even tapering off pods again I'm realizing once I get off them very little is actually going to be different. Sometimes you have to divert your attention away from your drug problem and focus on the more serious behavoiral issues. Sure I use drugs, but I also go to bed at 4am every night, I eat 1 meal a day which often becomes a binge late at night. I don't make phone calls anymore, don't go out and do things, haven't bought a new t-shirt/shoes prob in over a year. I eat shit food and don't exercise anymore. I have no plans after I'm done with school. I'm not even trying to go on job interview and I know my current method of generating income is not durable. I don't read books anymore or participate in any social hobbies.

And once I get clean all those problems will still be there. Thats why what everyone is alluding to about behavoir is by far the most important part of getting clean. And a plan doesn't have to be executed to a t the whole point is really just having clear goals to guide you away from drugs and towards an actual purpose in life.
I also think its important to mention that as difficult as people say changing your life is, its the same as when people say break ups are hard to do. And the fact is the majority of people who break up wind up experiencing way more positive affects than negative. People never talk about the positive aspects of breaking up, same way they don't talk about the positive aspects of rebuilding a life. Its not tedious and demotivating, its rather fun and exciting everyday you're focused on it. I always notice when I'm tapering/focusing on my problems I always feel a thousand times better about myself, and I just hope I can keep it up. But the point is jake maybe make a list of things in your life that bother you, and write out a plan or just a sequence of behavoirs to fix those issues.
You always just say "work and NA" but work can become more of an excuse to use than a reason not to. NA is great, but theres so many other things to focus on and I'm sure your life is far from perfect and that you can find these things.
 
Thanks Bo
ive made it a week without the meth clinic and i am almost completely off opiates. it has hurt but im hangin in and not getttin high
 
^ what are you doing to occupy yourself bro ? This is going to become your next challenge - when the physical stops .... the mental creeps up like a bitch in heat in the night . .. get ready I'm sorry to say PAWS are no joke. Why do you think I keep myself going 24/7 ? I've got stripes on opiates like I own the US army - and i fucking wish I had never enlisted.

So whats the plan where you standin brother , i got your back and you know this but be open to me I do not tolerate bullshit, I ate my own for too long - don't care for the taste brother !!
 
Great job Jake! A week off methadone is a HUGE step. If I remember correctly you were going to supplement with tramadol, correct? Keep going.

peace.
seedless
 
good job man, keep it up!
14.gif
 
well i walked off the 55 mg a week ago , saturday , started gettin sick monday or tuesday, used my take home to wean over the last few days , now i do have subs and tram but gonna try not to use them and set myself back ................
 
Im curious why exactly jake decided that NA is now the way to go when we spent this whole thread, and many other ones that he has made, talkin about how much he dont like NA and how bad the people in his meetings treat him....

jake do you think that now that you are off the methadone, suddently everybody there will be cool and awesome?

The problem wasnt you being on methadone or not. If they would treat you like that for being on it, they are fuckin assholes, and the problem is them. do you really want those people to be the support you have around now? Now they will accept you as long as you aint on methadone, so you are runnin back to them as your main plan to stay clean? Those folks, from every example you have gave us are a bunch of fuckin closed minded, inconsiderate, dysfunctional people who you should really not be trusting to be the kind of kind, compassionate, thoughtful, selfless support that you need in a tough time like this.

I aint really understanding why you would go back to a group of people who treated you so bad becuz you were on methadone, now that you are off it. If they are sooo willing to just treat you like shit automatically becuz of something like that, even tho you are off it now, do you really trust and respect the type of person who would act like that? Is that the best crowd to be around in a time like this in your life?

Just askin these questions becuz its a lil bit disturbing that all a sudden now NA is your plan when you had such bad experiences with it and didnt agree with the program at all?


I aint saying not to do NA if you have a different, caring, good group of people that you really click with and if you really feel its the right thing for you.

but you been talkin so long about how you dont agree with the program, you dont like the shit they preach, you dont think it makes sense, etc, and it just seems kinda sudden to have a total flip like that. which is why it looks to the people who are watchin from the outside, like it is just another one of your "get clean quick" plans that you are grasping onto out of a lack of havin anything else....
 
Lacey i dont know what to think , i just know i have made progress, gotten down to 20 mg methadone, there are a few good ppl in n.a. i can talk to , not all of them , and i will talk to the ones i can and get what i can out of it . i dont plan on n.a. being the answer to everything , but tonight it was either sit at home and be depressed or go to the meeting right down the street and see a few people that still are there for me when i dont know where else to turn . i dont agree or disagree with all of n.a.'s stuff. im really just scared and confused at the moment . as far as subs i only have 3 so i figure after the methadone ends (i was going to do 20 , 15, 15, 10, 5, ,5 wait a day and then use the 3 subs and hope i will be ok ..............i know i cant touch anymore dope , coke or any of that..............
 
i find that depending on where you are some meetings are good and others really suck. i was really opposed to meetings when i lived back in jersey. the first few meetings i went to were actually pretty nice, but then i went back a few months later and everyone was just cold and harsh. kinda like a 1 up you feeling. they made me feel worse so i stopped going.

then i came to chicago where people are a bit nicer in general. and the meetings here are alot better. like the people actually give you hugs when you get a key chain, and pass out numbers to new people. they actually seem to care. there are however a few "old timers" who can be a drag. like if your just a drug addict with no alcohol problem - like me - and go to an AA meeting, they will sit there and bash you for being in the wrong place. they think that alcohol and drugs are completely different, even though in the NA program they clearly say alcohol is a drug too. but most of the people out here are nice. and will actually put a meeting together around new people unlike jersey.

and i find that people in the northeast just tend to be very fast paced, rude, self centered people, and people in other parts of the country they are more open, friendly, and actually caring. just different regions i guess.
 
lacey k : <snip>

that last statement you just made set me off. "like it is just another one of your "get clean quick" plans that you are grasping onto out of a lack of havin anything else.... " if you think NA is a "get clean quick" plan then it just goes to show how little you understand any of it. while NA is "just for today" program there is no contract on how long you can stay. its not a rehab that kicks you out after x amount of time. it allows an addict who was deeply involved with drugs to become deeply involved something much much more productive and less harmful. yes there are assholes in NA, but there are assholes on the block, in the grocery store, at school, fucking everywhere. but there are also good ppl in all those places as well. so you have a choice, either look at NA as a bunch of assholes or look at it as a bunch of ppl who are trying to better themselves one day at a time. and atleast they are trying to do something about their problem and not just throwing another drug on top of it to mask their bullshit. if you ever actually listened in any of the meetings you went to, you would realize that NA is not just a drug problem program. but maybe thats too deep for you. i mean your fucking pregnant and still taking methadone. that says enough about your character. if you can't stop using drugs and remain completely abstinent while pregnant than that is a huge flashing sign that says your an addict.

i dont know where i'm going with this but let me just say, i went to an NA concert last night. all people in recovery. it was amazing. thats the kinda things i do today. today i LIVE. i don't just survive. which is what i was doing. and guess what lemme just tell you all my excuses on why i should be using so you can see what strength NA has given me.

back in june i turned 21. i had a roxy problem for the past couple years before that, which turned into an IV heroin problem. anyways it felt like i was living day to day just looking for ways and means to get more. it was awful but heroin told me it was ok, everything would be ok if i just got high. so i did, i spent all my money from work, i stole money from my parent, sister and eventually i got caught doing something that got me a 2nd degree robbery charge. i have been out on bail since late june, and have been clean since july 8th. and this is ONLY because of NA. i got sentenced in sept to a 3 with an 85%. do you think that before any of this happened i would be able to stay clean for the summer of my 21st bday while looking at 2.5 years of prison time? hell no!

i just told you that so you see there is really NO excuse to use drugs at all,none. and if you think that you have a really good one, then your just tricking yourself. i hope this helped some one see you dont have to use NO MATTER WHAT! and if you can't stop on your own then there is a place you can go where you dont have to do it alone.
 
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Lacey i dont know what to think , i just know i have made

progress, gotten down to 20 mg methadone, there are a few good ppl in n.a. i

can talk to , not all of them , and i will talk to the ones i can and get what i can out of

it . i dont plan on n.a. being the answer to everything , but tonight it was either sit at

home and be depressed or go to the meeting right down the street and see a few

people that still are there for me when i dont know where else to turn . i dont agree

or disagree with all of n.a.'s stuff. im really just scared and confused at the moment .

as far as subs i only have 3 so i figure after the methadone ends (i was going to do

20 , 15, 15, 10, 5, ,5 wait a day and then use the 3 subs and hope i will be ok

..............i know i cant touch anymore dope , coke or any of that..............

well then thats good jake. If you are truly findin something in it thats helpin you then

i think you are on the right path and Im really glad to hear that you feelin some hope.

:)

I wasnt sayin you shouldnt be in NA. I made that shit pretty clear in my post but

just to make it extra 100%, i was just sayin that the idea of you returning to the

people that was treating you so bad, made me think damn how is that gonna work.

I hope u understand that was the concern not the idea of u being in NA to begin

with.

I think you are the type of person it could really help if you truly believe in it matter

fact. For some folks they just cant do the black and white thing. Folks like me and

other people like another poster said here, I think it was Bojangles but i aint sure ,

we need the gray area.

But your personality, it seems like you do better when you got somethin vdery

strong and solid to hold onto, a concrete set of rules and shit to live by, and the

support of all the folks doin the same. I seen you strugglin for so long with just

feeling like you dont know WTF to do and i think that maybe NA could be good for

you becuz it does tell you wat to do it gives you somethin very definite to go by and

thats the structure and support that some people need. I think it will be positive for

you--as long as you got a good group of people.

Thats the only thing i was hung up on...Was the idea that these folks treated you so

shitty, and now that you are doing it "their way" they are suddenly willing to
accept you now, it just seemed like yo, that is some fair weather friends there.

You dont want that type of people to be the ones who got your back.

But if you got a group of folks who really are the warm, caring friendly people that

I have met at a few meetings, the ones who are less interested in pushin the whole

doctrine and shit on you and more about just bein there as a friend to help you out

and support you...Then that is a really good situation for you.

Like i said...Dont get it twisted. I thought that you personally, like on a deep level

disagreed with the whole idea of the steps. The way you had been makin it sound

was that you didnt believe in it, and didnt like the concept , that you had alot of

issues with it, etc.

If that WAS the case, I was just sayin hey, you just totally went against your

convictions and personal beliefs , how do you think that is gonna work out?

Anytime you do a complete 180 like that, and go against the shit you believe, it

tends to come out in the end. Ill use religion as an example. Say a person who is a

committed atheist, not just your average non religious person but somebody who is

deeply against the idea of a god and always been solid in those beliefs and is

strong in their convictions, gets cancer or somethin. And hes mad desperate and he

just says yo, you know wat, Ima become a catholic, i want god to help save me,i

want something to pray to, im at the end of my rope i dont know wat else to do.

So he starts goin to church devotedly every sunday and doin all the prayers and

bible reading and just goin all out tryina become this perfect catholic. And hes goin

thru the motions, saying the words, desperately wanting to believe but you cant just

create faith when it aint there.

So as much as he follows this path and does everything he supposed to to, and

on the outside is the picture perfect catholic, and is even starting to convince

himself that he really does believe in this stuff, on the inside, sooner or later, the true

feelings always come out. That doubt in there, those beliefs that was always his

real feelings, you cant just make em disappear and decide to be religious. It gotta

come from the heart, and if it aint a genuine transformation and instead is a forced

one, sooner or later the true colors come out and the guy realizes that he really aint

catholic and hes just pretending.

If a person like me said fuckit, i dont know wat else to do, ima do NA, it would be a

similar situation.

So, I had the impression that you mighta been in a similar situation--BUT, now i see

that AINT TRUE....That you never really were super-against it or nothing, but that

you just had some reservations, and that most of them came from the people and not

the program.

I was just warning you of the dangers of doing something you dont really believe

in, and tryna put all your faith in somethin that you are only doing half-heartedly.

BUT, it looks like the idea I had of you was wrong, and you really were just

confused and uncertain about everything in general and na was just another thing

that you "just didnt know" about--but that you never actually had a serious, deep

seated problem with the steps.

Since thats the case, I think its great that you are doin the program. I hope i made it

100% clear that the only concerns I had was with a person going against the shit

that they believe out of desperation, becuz it usually ends up fallin apart when you

go against your values. But since that aint you , then that aint nothin we need to

worry about.:)

Im really glad that you finally feel like you are makin progress with this shit. I think

you are one of the folks that NA might really do good for so if you are doin it and you

feel like you are gettin some help from it i think you should keep goin and jump

right in. Your life needs more in it than drugs and it sounds like you are startin to

find other things to do with your time which is great.

Just make sure that the people you get with, got your best interests at heart. You

seem like a very trusting guy who takes the shit people tell you to heart pretty

easily. Since thats your situation, make sure that the people you surrounding

yourself with, are the right ones. Just like anywhere else, there is dysfunctional

and shady folks in the program too, its just human nature, you find the "bad apples"

everywhere you go, I aint saying its a problem specific to NA. But you seen from

your experiences, that sometimes, certain people are a bad influence, they may not

be using drugs but they are sick in other ways like the guy you told us about who

always talks about fuckin all the new young meeting girls and shit.

So just make sure that you put your recovery and the help and support of it, into the

hands of the people who you can really trust. Folks who are loving, kind, caring,

selfless, who really want to help you and will be there for you.

I can say that even tho I dont care for the program and it aint the way that I live my

life, I HAVE met folks like this in a couple meetings. and that if i was involved in the

steps and the program i would definately be happy to have them by my side helpin

me along. I dont say to nobody "hey, im justhere, but i dont do the steps" or nothing

like that. I keep that to myself. But, when somebody who is concerned and talkin to

me individually wants to get to know me yea, I do tell them "Yea, honestly, I am

clean, I dont use, Im really happy to be livin a life without dope, but I didnt use the

program or the steps to get this way. To be totally real with you, I dont agree with

most of the stuff the program is about, and I dont/didnt use the steps to get or stay

clean, I come to meetings as a required thing for probation, but I still try and get wat

I can outta them. just becuz I dont personally agree with the steps and the ideas,

dont mean that I cant listen to otheres and try to learn from them, and I can still

share my story too, becuz it aint always specifically NA or non-NA shit--the basic

ideas of bein clean and happy, are pretty much the same in the end. so there is

common ground there and I just try to find it when I come here."

And you know wat? Those people, the ones who are really just interested in

helping you as a person first and fore most? They always say hey thats cool. I

respect that, you aint gotta be all about the steps and all that to come here. if you

are clean and you did it on your own, your own way, and you are happy and

successful and aint still suffering and struggling, you are a positive example to have

here, and we aint gonna have nothin bad to say about you.

And i think thats really fuckin cool.

I aint met a whole lotta folks like that in my NA travels, but the few that I did find

were great examples of the reasons that many people stay comin back to the

meetings.

You want to be around folks like that jake. People who will accept you no matter

wat you do, whether you on suboxone or methadone or nothing at all, who will still

root for you and support you even if you gotta take your benzos for anxiety

sometimes, or who will have your back and be there to help if you decided to get

off them. People who are really just interested in your well being,who want to do

their best to help you achieve YOUR version of happiness, watever t what may

be. people who aint gonna push THEIR version of success or happiness on you,

who know that for each individual its different and all they want to do is wats

best for you.

THAT is the kind of folks who will truly help you and be great support to you when

you are in NA. And i am sure you will find a few if you look.

While I totally disagree with the principles of NA like everybody here knows damn

well by now, i DO think that the support , when it comes from the right people, that

the group can offer, can really do great things for the type of people that the

program fits. I think the companionship, the group mentality, all that--it can be really

damaging when its the wrong mentality, in a bad group, when people are using that

mob mentality for a negative effect. Which happens, and thats the shit I hate to

hearabout , BUT, when its used the RIGHT way, and the group is full of positivity,

acceptance, and the real desire to truly help others, it is a excellent resource for

the person who is lookin for reassurance, acceptance, support, a shoulder to lean

on, you know?

So jake, to wrap it all up, Im really sorry that i wrote so much, i didn mean for this post to be long at all but it ended up that way...But the point is just that hey yo--if you are doing the program and following your plan, and you feel it working for you? Then you keep on doin that shit yo. If you are doin NA now and you feel its helpin you? Then keep it up. I was just makin sure that you dont let nobody push you around or confuse you. You wrote so much about the negative experiences you had had so i just wanted to make sure that you werent walkin back into a snake pit in your vulnerable state. But it sounds like shits OK for you, so i hope you can take my advice of just bein aware, making sure that you got the right type of people around you at the meetings, and that you find a really good, supportive, caring home group that you know is about helping people and sharin the love and not about the wrong things. That was my only concerns.

So if you got all that on lock...Then all I got to say is great job and good luck keepin it goin. It really is so good to hear you feelin hopeful and positive for once and actually making a real change instead of just stressin over how to do it. You are takin action, and that is great!!! So keep it up, keep yourself surrounded by supportive positive people, stick to your plan, and just keep goin and I think you will have success. :)
 
hey guys , well i hate it when you are kicking and first call of the day is from a dealer tellin you how cheap he can give it to you for...........anyway i just ignore it and im going to keep weaning off the opiates (down to 20 mg methadone) and going to meetings and hanging on ................no dope , no coke, i am on benzos but that will be my last thing to get off.........and i do smoke a little bud but that prob wont last long...........anyway im doin a hell of a lot better than a week or 2 ago when i was on 55 mg methadone plus dope , coke, and whatever else i could get my hands on

lacey im goin to read that last post in a little while and reply............gotta put some food in this house, its mad empty
 
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lacey k : <snip>

that last statement you just made set me off. "like it is just another one of your "get clean quick" plans that you are grasping onto out of a lack of havin anything else.... " if you think NA is a "get clean quick" plan then it just goes to show how little you understand any of it. while NA is "just for today" program there is no contract on how long you can stay. its not a rehab that kicks you out after x amount of time. it allows an addict who was deeply involved with drugs to become deeply involved something much much more productive and less harmful. yes there are assholes in NA, but there are assholes on the block, in the grocery store, at school, fucking everywhere. but there are also good ppl in all those places as well. so you have a choice, either look at NA as a bunch of assholes or look at it as a bunch of ppl who are trying to better themselves one day at a time. and atleast they are trying to do something about their problem and not just throwing another drug on top of it to mask their bullshit. if you ever actually listened in any of the meetings you went to, you would realize that NA is not just a drug problem program. but maybe thats too deep for you. i mean your fucking pregnant and still taking methadone. that says enough about your character. if you can't stop using drugs and remain completely abstinent while pregnant than that is a huge flashing sign that says your an addict.

i dont know where i'm going with this but let me just say, i went to an NA concert last night. all people in recovery. it was amazing. thats the kinda things i do today. today i LIVE. i don't just survive. which is what i was doing. and guess what lemme just tell you all my excuses on why i should be using so you can see what strength NA has given me.

back in june i turned 21. i had a roxy problem for the past couple years before that, which turned into an IV heroin problem. anyways it felt like i was living day to day just looking for ways and means to get more. it was awful but heroin told me it was ok, everything would be ok if i just got high. so i did, i spent all my money from work, i stole money from my parent, sister and eventually i got caught doing something that got me a 2nd degree robbery charge. i have been out on bail since late june, and have been clean since july 8th. and this is ONLY because of NA. i got sentenced in sept to a 3 with an 85%. do you think that before any of this happened i would be able to stay clean for the summer of my 21st bday while looking at 2.5 years of prison time? hell no!

i just told you that so you see there is really NO excuse to use drugs at all,none. and if you think that you have a really good one, then your just tricking yourself. i hope this helped some one see you dont have to use NO MATTER WHAT! and if you can't stop on your own then there is a place you can go where you dont have to do it alone.

I dont think you understood my post calmanimal.

I wasnt saying that NA is a get clean quick scheme, at all. I aint sure where you got the idea that I was even talking about NA there. There was nothing in that ENTIRE post that had anything at all to do with NA, yo.

The post was about his "plan" of using 5 suboxones to taper down. That was his whole plan. And i was pointin out that alot more goes into gettin and stayin clean, than just detoxing.

I was explainin to him that gettin and stayin clean is a long hard process that takes more than just detoxing. You need to have a long term plan, even if its just a general, vague idea. But to just think you can detox and be done with it, that aint the best way to go. for a while, his style was just to jump from thing to thing, scheme to scheme. "Ill do methadone!" and after a few weeks, it wasnt working (becuz he had no plan other than just to take methadone each day) and so he decides , Ok, Ima do subs now!...and just repeat the same cycle over and over, of coming up with the idea but not following thru on it, not having a long term plan or any ideas of wat will happen after he did the detox, which of course would always just end him back up where he started.

There wasnt nothing about NA in there, even a little bit. I aint sure why you took it to be about na, its like you are lookin for negative shit about NA in everything I post or somethin.

All I was doin was tryna stress to him the importance of havin a solid plan for AFTER you detox, becuz that is only a very small percent of the actual work.the real work comes after you get physically clean becuz your head is where the real change happens at.

In my 2nd post, where i DID talk about Na, i wasn puttin down the program. i was just asking jake about his feelings aboutit. For a while he had talked about how he didnt like the program, how everybody made him feel like shit, how they judged him, his sponsor was a weirdo pervert douchebag, he dont agree with the ideas of the steps, etc.

And i was sayin man, are you sure you want to suddenly just jump into NA when you got all these issues with it?

If you are really all about it, then thats one thing.

But if you got all these issues and reservations about something, but you do it anyways, alot of times it dont work out, becuz you are tryin to do somethin that is against the shit you believe.

So i was just tryna feel out where he was at.

It turns out tho, that he didnt really have those issues. He had made it sound that way but it wasnt really like that so much. He didnt have no deep seated opposition to the idea of NA or nothing like that.

And so in that case I think he should do it.

For somebody like me, it would be foolish to try to jump into the shit and just turn around like that and try and be a 12 stepper. It just aint how i am it would be lying to myself, and i would never truly believe the shit I was saying or reading, it would just be a sham. I wouldnt have success with it, becuz I wouldnt really believe none of it, and the most important thing to succeed in the program is to have the faith in the steps.

I wasnt sure if jakes situation was like that , or not. If he was going into somethin that he was truly against, and didnt believe in, i was just tryna warn him like yo, you might not end up havin the result you want here,becuz you are going against your own beliefs just to have SOMETHING to hold onto.

BUT--It turns out, that aint his situation at all. he had some problems with it but they were superficial and mostly related to the people in his meeting and not the program itself.

When you are gettin clean, its mad important to stay true to yourself. If doing the NA program equals not bein true to yourself ( like it would in my case), then it might not be the best thing. But that aint no issue for jake. he can do the program while bein totally true to his beliefs and values, and so i think in that case, if he is finding help there, its a good thing for him to do and I totally support him bein in the program.

I hope that clears up anything you might be misunderstanding about the shit I said in the past few posts.
 
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Lacey part of me wishes i could be like the n.a. people and have mad time clean..............and part of me thinks meetings suck.............part of me wants to do dope again , and part of me wants to be clean. all i know is i was very close to hittin up the dealer tonight but i smoked some herb instead......................and i dont know wtf im gonna do with the future days. im down to 60 mg meth and 3 subs , tramadol, my bud, and my k pin.................part of me wants to come clean with my family just go away to a detox , but i know that would make things worse because they prob would disown me......but at same time i dont know if im gna make it on my own...........so im stuck

when i said down to 60 mg meth i meant that is all i have left...............i only took 20 mg yesterday and today...............been a week since i was going to clinic gettin 55 a day
 
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i used one and lost one...............man this is so hard. every call i get is from someone selling or looking for something, i still have like no energy...............my dad is on me about getting a job............its gotta get better
 
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