N.A. meetings and judgmental people

[Khadijah]

wow i cant wait til i got time to read all these replies.....................i knew i never should have mentioned the meth clinic to anyone in n.a. ppl actually stopped talkin to me who werre my friends because of this lol this one kid i saw today at the clinic gettin dosed had said he was on subs b4 but he prob was on meth and didnt want n.a. ppl to know . i may just go to more a.a. now i just hate hearing about alcohol cuz i never even liked it but its the same program........i dont know . honestly im not ready to be clean . i mean id like to but even after all the trouble its caused me i dont think i can deal with life sober............im just bein honest, and if i say that in a meeting theyre gonna give me a big book beat down .............my one boy who was doin like 2 buns a day and about 20 zanny bars somehow kicked cold turkey in a house iin north phillly now he is all in a.a. talkin about how he fuond god and is on "firm spritual ground" and all and i am happy 4 him that he is clean but it freaks me out to see him talkin abuot the god stuff. i never could get that.............like he is facing serious charges and he isnt even worried about it . i never could do that . but hey more power to him , i just feel so guilty because he is on me REAL hard about getting off the methadone , and i dont feel like is being fair , he is trying to look out for me and i agree bein on the clinic long term aint a great idea, but i may need it a few months at least....................

Man, if anybody tries to get you to go off the clinic before you ready, THEY DONT REALLY CARE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR RECOVERY, and they are more interested in themself and the steps and trying to make you be a na clone.

Methadone is helpin you get your life back together. Its a great drug that helps so many people. For me it was the difference between where i was at a year or so ago, about to get locked up for my 2nd dirty in 3 mos, on double-probation for 2 felonys at once, still using all week and then gettin clean just long enough to see my PO and give a clean test, etc, and now....Clean for over a year, happy as i ever been in my life, about to be a mom, you know? Fuck, it took ME doin alot of work in my head and gettin shit straight ...but methadone set the stage for that and made it possible for me to stop worryin about all the dope shit long enough to address the other problems that was making me use and makin my life fucked up.

There aint NOTHIN WRONG WITH METHADONE.....If its helping you, then its good shit. There aint nothin wrong with being on methadone as long as you need to. if thats 10 fuckin years, so be it. If you are living a healthy, safe happy life , if you are satisfied, if you like where your life is headin ....stay on the methadone. you are having SUCCESS---why stop somethin that is lettin you finally move forward? Why sabotage yourself by stoppin prematurely?

There aint NO reason to get off that shit if you are happy on it right now and feel like you still need to be on it. And there shouldnt be no fuckin rush to get off it. take your time, eventually shit will happen, dont be rushin yourself and beatin yourself up over it. Right now, its the help you need. So keep takin it. Dont even listen to these jokers tryna control your life!!

Next time your boy tells you to get off the done tell him to go fuck himself, seriously. anybody pressuring you like that is more concerned with the way they believe that everybody must be than how YOUR reality is.

Just becuz he was stupid enough to kick a habit like that with no medical assistance and coulda killed himself by CT'ing off a benzo habit that big, dont mean that now everybody else in the world gotta follow the same fuckin path.

Gettin off the shit too soon just makes relapse more likely down the road. you gotta take it slow yo. Seriously, takin the advice that some of these fools are spoutin off at you could really fuck up your process of gettin your shit straight, if you take anything from this post, let it be that you aint gonna let nobody get under your skin and you will keep takin your methadone proudly with nobody influencing you to feel negative about it, as long as you need to til you feel comfortable gettin off it. Im serious yo. You are makin progress, and it sucks for them, becuz they did it the hard way. Id be jealous too if i was one of them mutha fuckas. They kicked cold readin their 12 step book sufferin and hurtin and just usin meetings to distract them. You are freein yourself from your addiction in a comfortable, controlled way, without havin to suffer all that pain and withdrawal, and you are succeeding at it. they be like 'WTF? Not fair! You should have to go thru the same bullshit I did! If you dont, you aint really clean!" Fuck that yo, nevermind their noise just keep doin you and know that you are doin the right thing for yourself right now, thats all that matters.

 

[jake99]

BO do you ever go to meetings anymore ? i find very few ppl in them that attend them on a regular basis that are not "brainwashed" but hey they are clean , so i give them credit for that..........i just honestly dont know if im ready to be clean totally yet , or if i feel i can be happy with no drugs at all........sounds messed up but its the truth.......Sometimes drugs are only thing that gives me any peace, i mean yeah they make problems for me but at same time , id rather get high sometimes and have a little happiness, then just be totally depressed all the time just to be clean...........My friend who found God and had this spiritual awakening is the one who is so ANTI methadone and he means well but it bugs me out. And dont know why i'm worrying abuot driving 35 miles a day to the clinic when i used to drive about 200 miles back and forth to philly to cop a few times a week...............(i think thats why i put on 50 000 miles on my car in 2 years) BUt if i get off the meth in 6 months or so it wont be that much damage on the car or on my brain , i guess...............would be a lot worse if i ended up back in prison because i caught a 3rd dope charge. im worried about my parents not knowing im on clinic , well im sure theyd rather that then me be coppin dope on the street , even if i they wouldnt admit it to me (they would be VERY mad if they knew i was on the clinic) And as far as the benzos go , if i cant get aruond that rule , then worse case scenario is they administrativly detox me which isnt that bad anyway , its like 10 mg a week or so ............i mean yeah its fast , but whatever i wanna be off it ASAP anyway..............Now i just have to work on stayin away from other drugs while on the meth ,I may as well admit to you guys that when i got my unemployment checks i did cop some D (which is a waste because you barely feel it) and i have been messin with some powder too (which i never used to like but now i kinda do) . And i need to stay on my prescribed Klonopin dose and not buy any extra zannies.................SO yeah i cant go in n.a. and tell them all this , or theyd probably tell me im a piece of trash

 

[*Venus*]

^ I travel approx. 200 miles round trip to Philly several times a week as well since I moved away. If near Harrisburg, wanna carpool and divide the burdon? LOL.. I swear the turnpike people know me by name by now.

I have some good local meetings if interested in going together. It took me a lot of "shopping around" but I got lucky and have some good groups I pop into every now and then.

 

[godlovesugly]

i personally have a love/hate relationship with the program. i think its great and it works for a lot of people. its helped me out, but i think it doesn't work with every addict/alcoholic. i found alot of people in there i cant stand, but also some pretty awesome people who are now my close friends...BUT i think you gotta remember that there are alot of SICK people at these meetings. some are sicker than others. some in AA do have a 'holier than thou' attitude, i hate getting lectured by those people. they know im not sober and they are, so they try to shove it down your throat with the big book and the steps...blah.

i would suggest, trying some different meetings. because i know there are some good people at these meetings who wont judge you no matter what, if youre clean or not, they are just happy to see you at a meeting.

 

[ocean]

^You are right.
I have seen in this thread, both sides of the coin, but just want to put out there that it is always worth trying something out and deciding for yourself.

yeah, this is common (in my experience). We all judge others in some way or another and for me its a survival mechanism. The ones who are judging you for using are the ones to stay at arms length with. Experienced members working an honest program understand that recovery is a process. This process takes many forms.

Some folks only apply portions of the program to their lives (this may be part of their process). They 'forget' that the newcomer IS the MOST important person. Many are afraid of the newcomer because folks that are new unknowingly make us work a more rigorous program (us addicts tend to not want to work especially when it involves the concept of change) Many just don't want to do ANY work.

You don't have to dance with everyone in the program but in time you will notice a few folks that do remember what its like (even after significant periods of clean time under their belts). These are the ones you want to hang with.

The rooms are filled with many flawed people. Some project guilt on others because they think they are helping but others do it simply to feel better about themselves.

There are many like you describe in my area and I don't fuck with them. I have experienced the exact same feelings you are writing about and at times it has given me feelings of rage, insecurity, and feelings of being unwelcome. What I did was rise above the nonsense. Shit, we get clean for ourselves. We didn't know any of these people before we got here so we have a right to pick and choose who the good ones are. Hang back and watch folks, don't just listen to their words (we're experts at sounding good). Strike up conversations with those who are secure in themselves and their recovery and be honest when ya talk.

Those other ones... shit... we can learn from them and (for me) it teaches me how I DON'T want to be and propels me to make a stronger effort to be there for someone newer than me (maintenance drugs or no maintenance drugs)

Your process is YOUR process. It sounds like you are making an effort. It isn't anyone's place to measure the extent of your effort or to put timeframes on where you should be in your recovery. They don't have enough information to place expectations on your growth

Excellent post.

 

[phactor]

I'm going to echo Ocean, that is a great post OverDone. You put into words what I was trying to get off. You sound like the people I chose to associate with at meetings.

my one boy who was doin like 2 buns a day and about 20 zanny bars somehow kicked cold turkey in a house iin north phillly now he is all in a.a. talkin about how he fuond god and is on "firm spritual ground" and all and i am happy 4 him that he is clean but it freaks me out to see him talkin abuot the god stuff. i never could get that............

Its all about your interpretation of the Higher Power. For some people GOD=Group.Of.Drunks

NA/AA are something bigger then you correct? If you believe that they can help you then you have a higher power. It can be that simple right now.

You can become a spiritual person, I firmly believe that everyone is spiritual by nature. That does not mean "religious" or "Christian" by any means. I am not a Christian, nor am I religious, but I am very spiritual.

Also, I'm interested in your definition of people who are "brainwashed" at meetings? What are they like?

Also, just like anything in life there are going to be good people and some assholes at meetings. Stick with the good, ignore the idiots.

 

[phactor]

I did 3 years straight 365 days a year and the last year and a half the meetings were ALL 3 hours long. This was at Tully House, NJ. Then 3 more years on parole at no less than 4 times a week. So I've been to a lot and seen the difference.
In meetings, when people share, it makes you feel good, but it also learned helplessness. The 12 steps themself are absolute and maniacal. "We admitted we were powerless over our addiction, and that our lives have become unmanagable". That is utter bullshit and you know that. All that does is just shift responsibility from yourself onto an invented weakness, then you use that weakness to justify your own lack of responsibility. Its sick. Just stop using and build a real life you like. Or maybe its just that I'm too positive a person, but all they really do is complain complain complain.
If you think thats unjustified, opinions are allowed to be that way.

Well first off, I do not think you are sounding like a positive person. Many of your posts lately have seemed to me to be very angry and negative. You are going out of your way to insult other TDS members, which was never allowed when I spent alot of time on this board.

So the meetings you attend were forced via probation correct? Well of course its not going to help you. I chose to attend because I find meetings help me. I hated AA/NA when I was forced to attend. I found every little fault I could.

As for you telling me that "I know the first step is bullshit", well first, do not try to tell someone how they think. You do not have that right, nor do you have any fucking idea what I think. I find the 12 steps extremely flexible and far from absolute. I find it interesting that you basically accused me of trying to do something (work the steps) which I "knew is bullshit". I do not know why you have such a low opinion of someone you do not know, but you are coming off as an asshole.

I am powerless to my addiction, I have tried to stop on my own countless times. Some of my attempts are chronicled on this site. Shit, lots of time I would even lie about how good I was doing. I realized I had a problem at 23 and thought that addiction would somehow contribute to my death since I was 25. I kept using though, it was suicidal. I wanted to stop but could not.

As for unmanageable, I used to the point that I had a seizure and kidney failure, that is pretty fucking unmanageable IMO. Having to use every day is not managing your life.

Admitting that you need help and cannot do it alone is extremely courageous imo. People are often perceived as weak if they ask for help, when it is one of the hardest things for a person to do.

I take full responsibility for my addiction, and I do that by choosing not to use and to attend meetings to help me do so. Only I can stop my addiction. The problem is that I harm not only myself, but also the ones that I love when I use. They do not deserve to be harmed because of my selfishness. So for my sake and there's I do whatever it takes to keep me clean and sober. Meetings are just one part of my program. My sobriety is the most important thing in my life right now, because I am in a life or death situation.



Anyways, its not worth it to have this discussion go any further. So best of luck to you. I also used poppy pods and was caught up with them for years.

 

[jake99]

man i wish i could get clean . i wake up every morning thinkin what a nightmare im in .......................im too scared to tell my family the truth , i dont know how im gonna get clean , i wish i never got on the meth clinic................

 

[phactor]

^^^

It would have to start by coming clean to your family. I had too, I found they were wonderfully supportive, and this is not my first rodeo. This is the last time though, if I fuck this up then I get no more support.

They will not "right me off" if I blow it, but I lose access to there support if I do and would only be able to get it if I put together good clean time.

Day 43 today and I have AA and NA to thank for that.

 

[Khadijah]

phactor how can you take full responsibility for your addiction if you are powerless?


Anyways...jake...it sounds like you need somethin to live for yo. I recognize that hole you got. It was the same way i felt for a long time whenever i thought about life without dope.

Right now, put aside the steps, put aside the program and shit--that aint helpin you right now becuz its makin you more upset. I aint sayin that maybe someday in the future you cant be helped by it. I would say hey give it a shot again sometime when you got a lil stronger handle on your sobriety. But real talk yo .... right now its just causin you more trouble giving you more reasons to feel shitty, so it aint helpin. right now we just concerned with gettin you to baseline, stayin above the negatives and treadin water at zero. after you stable there then you can worry about gettin ahead.

First of all, how long you been on the clinic for. Second how high is your dose.

I aint the person who would jus say "Raise the dose!" I hate how in the clinics, everytime you come to them with the slightest concern they tell you "when in doubt, raise the dose!" That is some straight drug pusher shit.

but, sometimes, your dose may need to go up tho. Like i didnt experience the full well being effects and really not havin the want for dope no more, til i got up to the dose Im at now.

It might not be related, maybe it aint got nothin at all to do with your dose but i am just askin out of curiousity cuz it COULD be a possibility that you just aint maintained at the best level yet. maybe not , tho. Like i said, its just a possibility, I aint saying its the reason you feel so bad.

Straight up yo, it sounds like you aint got nothing in your life that makes you feel like its enjoyable. I know without dope i had no fuckin interests, like at ALL...wat so fuckin ever....WITH dope there was shit i cared about and was into, not a whole lot since dope was at the top of the list...but you know....i could care about shit...but off it, it was like just one big gray world. Everything just flat and empty and useless and shitty and pointless with nothing that could possibly ever interest me or mean a damn thing to me in it. just a endless stretch of bullshit, and i thought "this is how it is? Im suppose to live in THIS for the rest of my life? Fuccccck that, Ill stay on dope."

The IDEA of clean is enough to make alot of people scared off becuz they see it as this horrible thing and its so hard to imagine a good life that you actually care about, not bein on dope.

Its like you in a black and white movie and dont care....but once you off dope, you notice. and its all just fuckin gray and bleak as shit...you gotta wait for teh color to start comin back into your life man.

I cant keep writin right now, but Ill get back to you and finish up this post later. There is some things I could suggest to you, non NA related things, just general shit you could do that might bring some color back into your life. it aint gonna sound great to you but just try it ...for me....i actually started to DO shit again just becuz i HAD nothing else to do, you feel me? And all a sudden...i startd realizing...wait a minute...Im actually ENJOYIN this!?! WTF? I aint high, I been off dope 3 months and i LIKE something? Holy shit!!

So hopefully you can get to that place , Ill do my best to give you some tips to get there when i come back...

 

[jake99]

Thank Lacey . I just feel so scared and alone right now..................Im only on 60 mg at the clinic. was at 80 and went down to 60 and i think only reason i went back on dope on top of it is because i got a bunch of unemployment money i knew i could blow.................
but i really Dont wanna stay on the clinic . i feel so guilty that my family doesnt know and hate having the drive there every day plus fakin piss because you cant be on benzos.................
so im just stuck . i gotta finish these last 3 wks of college . im about to get a degree and if i blew it now my fam would write me off for good. its the only thing positive i have goin for me. my dad dont even know abuot the D or meth clinic and he is so mad just that i dont have a job and knows i was using zannies and stuff months back that they have barely seen me since june (used to see them all the time) and they didnt even invite me for thanksgiving. my mom is a terrible depressed mess who lives with my 89 y/o grandmother and she thinks im on subs since i didnt wanna tell her im on meth........all these n.a. ppl are just puttin me down when i tell them whats goin on with me . i have 2 friends on the clinic who i think are just usin me for rides there and thats y they want me to stay on it. my counselor dont wanna let me drop my dose cuz he wants me to see the psych there and it takes 2 wks to see her. i wanna be off the meth and off dope ASAP. i dont wanna live this way no more. if the clinic wont work with me to get off it , i think i may just skip 2 days and get dose cut in half. i have 2 buns at moment and i can use them to try to get thru meth sickness..............and i get another check in 2 days that i can use to get a little more if i have to . id rather go thru dope w/d for a few days then stay on the meth and go thru that w/d . if i get off soon it shouldnt be as bad as ppl say yeah i been on dope and subs too last year or so but i hear meth is what makes the withdrawals really worse............thats y im scared to stay on the program .....................

 

[ocean]

Phactor- Congrats on your clean time!!

 

[Nibblez]

Jake99, if you're so close to your degree, my advice would be to stay with the methadone for now and start tapering after you get your degree. Definitely don't go back to abusing anything else.

I know you wanna be off methadone. It's impressive that you've gathered the willpower to make the decision to stop. But sometimes life throws us a curveball and we have to adjust.

 

[phactor]

Phactor- Congrats on your clean time!!

Thank you very much! And thank you for all your hard work on TDS. Many times I wish I would have taken the time to become a moderator on one of the forums. I've actually been a BLer since 2000. That is over a decade!

phactor how can you take full responsibility for your addiction if you are powerless?

By realizing that I am powerless and doing whatever it takes to not use again. This is my number one priority right now. If I do not use, then I do not fall into an addictive use pattern, thus taking responsibility for my life. It is all on me wether I use or not. It would be extremely irresponsible if I do begin to use knowing that I am an addict, who cannot control his substance use.

I am choosing not to give drugs and alcohol the power to control my life anymore. I cannot control much, but I can control what I put into my body. It is my responsibility to not put something into my body that causes me and others great harm.

I wish I could explain this better, since it seems this question is asked over and over again on this board. I asked it many times myself and believed it to be true. It took a radical shift in the way I view myself and my addiction to "get it", but once I did it was a big "duh" moment.

It is that simple for me, yet it took me over 10 years to recognize.

 

[jake99]

it doesnt seeem that simple when you are dope sick

 

[Nibblez]

it doesnt seeem that simple when you are dope sick

It sure don't.

 

[phactor]

it doesnt seeem that simple when you are dope sick

I was dope sick and in Alcohol withdrawal, post seizure and renal failure. You can do it, you just have to really really want too. No excuses or BS. All it takes is legit honesty with yourself.

jake, your best option is to stabalize on methadone until you get your degree and then go to a detox center. After that straight to inpatient. That is what it is going to take. If you have this setup before you tell your family, then I'd bet it would go much better then you would expect. Nobody is going to tell you something magical on this board. At this point it is going to take action from yourself.

 

[Khadijah]

Why inpatient? I disagree that he should take that course. Inpatient aint gonna do jack-shit that he cant do on his own if he wants to. And if he dont want to, it aint gonna do shit anyways.

If you dont wanna get clean rehab aint gonna do it for you, if you truly do, you dont need rehab to get you there. Detox is one thing. Inpatient is a waste of time and money IMO. if you gonna do it, you gotta do that shit for yourself. It aint shit to not use while you in a controlled facility where you aint got a choice. its a whole nother thing to stay clean once you get outta there. And when you fail you just feel worse about yourself. you gotta get clean in the real world. And that world invovles people places and things. thats life, tough shit, you cant live the rest of your life avoiding this that and the third cuz it might remind you of using, etc. You gotta get out there in the world and be in tough situations and get thru them, and you dont get that from rehab.

Anyways, try finding a rehab that aint completely based on the 12 steps. I think somethin like 90 % of the facilities in the US are 12step based. jake already knows he dont like that shit, so it will more than likely just discourage him, make him feel shitty, and send him on his way to cop on the way home. Rehab aint a solution to a damn thing. I dont know why people even bother to go there other than the chance to get medically detoxed under dr's supervision with the right drugs. Detox is the only useful thing about it. Anything past that 4-5 days and you just putting off the real work and the real progress anyways.

Especially for somebody like him who aint even certian he wants to get clean yet, and aint got that urge deep inside, it aint clicked for him yet. Until that happens, until that lightbulb goes off in your head, it dont matter if you think that gettin clean is the thing you SHOULD do...if you know that you SHOULD WANT it....if you DONT want it, if you dont think about it the way you think about your fondest dreams and fantasies....if you aint got a burning desire in yourself to get clean...its just gonna be a waste of time til you get there. For somebody who aint at that spot yet, rehab is just gonna be more of a waste and more discouragement. I dont know why people automatically suggest it as the standard default step along the way of gettin off dope or drugs. Its basically useless and a scam for the treatment industry to make money. The success rates of rehabs are pitiful, and I never known a single person to go to rehab and get and stay clean when they got home. Everybody I ever known who stopped using that shit did it on their own once they truly realized they needed to get their shit right. Rehab aint a solution to the problem. It aint a solution to anything, really. That shit got to come from within. Unless you are just using it as a place to get physicaly clean and detox, it aint gonna do nothing great for you--especially since you already familiar with the program. Imagine NA/AA, but all day long, pretty much. It aint like there is this secret, new knowledge that you didnt already know about that they teach you in there. It aint nothing new, it aint nothing that is gonna open your eyes like OMG, I HAD NO IDEA! Its the same things you hear in meetings, and some exercises like "Write a letter to your addiction" and shit like that. You aint missing out on nothing by not goin, trust me.

The shit that jake needs...which is the desire to truly want to get clean and not just the idea that its the thing he should do....and which is also something else fulfilling in his life to make him happy...a treatment for his depression and sense of pointlessness without dope....something to want to live for, somethin that gets him excited and happy and carin about life again....rehab aint gonna give that to him. That shit gotta come from inside himself and from bein in the real world again, not the addiction world or the coddling-ass treat you like a baby "recovery" world.

 

[phactor]

Why inpatient? I disagree that he should take that course. Inpatient aint gonna do jack-shit that he cant do on his own if he wants to. And if he dont want to, it aint gonna do shit anyways.

Well, I couldn't quit on my own. god knows I tried over and over again. This was not a matter of willpower. I tried everything and recognized I had a problem that was probably going to kill me years ago. I don't want to die but I just couldn't stop drinking and using, even though I clearly recognized the harm it was causing me and my loved ones.

In my experience, the shit didn't really "click" till my second day with no drugs or alcohol. I then got the desperation required after my seizure. I was all ready to go the Suboxone and therapy only route. However, I now realize that group therapy is essential for my recovery. AA and NA provide that. It is so awesome to see people who have been where I have, or even worse get better. I know that recovery is possible. Three or four months ago I thought I would be addicted for ever and was miserable. I wanted to get out but I couldn't, no matter how hard I tried.

Basically I needed some help, no shame in that. Asking for it is the best choice I have ever made in my short time on this earth. I see old guys saying the same thing, so I hope it continues to be.

Well first of, neither you or I actually know what is going on in Jake's head. It appears you are writing from the standpoint that he does not really want to quit. I am writing from the standpoint in that it looks like he really does want to quit deep down. I hope for his sake that he is. But we are not him, so we really do not know.

Because if he is detoxed and then taken out of his current situation and put into a place that is "safe" and will allow him to start figuring out what the fuck is going on. He appears to be under great duress right now. Inpatient will remove him from some of the stressful situations so he can deal with his addiction. As we all know, addiction is just a symptom of a larger problem. I myself am shocked at how little I deal with the actual addiction myself.. but this isn't about me.

This will allow him access to counseling, pyschatirists, small group sessions and meetings. Plus it will place him around other people getting clean. He is struggling finding people that want to quit at meetings on his own, in rehab there will be at least some that really want to quit. His behavior and his posts appear to be a cry for help. Its very hard to figure out if you want to quit or not if you are all fucked up.

As for him not liking AA and NA, he has done more then I had before I went into rehab. I was very unsure if I wanted to attend meetings and in my program they are optional. I found out on my own that they help me, in fact I am getting ready to go to one now. He is continuing to go to meetings, there is at least some desire to attend. Yes 90 percent of inpatients are 12 step based. This is because , right now, the 12 steps, combined with therapy and medication, offer a person the best chance to recover. There are more then just AA and NA in the 12 step world.

It seems to me like Jake doesn't know his up from down at this point. The only way he is going to be able to figure it out is if he gets clean from all drugs and alcohol. An Inpatient rehab is the best option to do so. He doesn't need to agree with everything in there, but the kid is crying out for a fucking break from this shit. As a human being he deserves that relief and the chance to breathe.

Like I said, the only reason I personally spent so much time deriding AA and NA was because I was trying to rationalize myself from going. I knew my addiction was bad and that AA and NA was at least worth a shot. Now, I have no idea why so many people would spend time on this board trashing something that has worked for some people at the very least.

Defending the program like I am increases my understanding of it. Every time I write a response I realize just how much meetings are helping me at the present moment.

Anyways off to a young persons big book study. Hope everyone has a great night!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Like I said, the only reason I personally spent so much time deriding AA and NA was because I was trying to rationalize myself from going. I knew my addiction was bad and that AA and NA was at least worth a shot. Now, I have no idea why so many people would spend time on this board trashing something that has worked for some people at the very least.

Spending time trashing? Some portion of the discussion from folks who don't idealize AA/NA could likely be considered trashing. AA/NA deserves scrutiny just as every idea or movement that has become the presumed answer should be. AA/NA is the dominant model for addiction problems. It is in 90% plus of rehab facilities, treatment, clinics, etc The overall assumed best solution should be criticized until some less intrusive options are more available. Even the critiquing or analyzing shouldn't be equated with trashing imo.

As to Jake. I'd say utilize anything that has a reasonable shot of working ought to be employed. Open up to some people about the extent of the problem. Treatment or a change of environment to a place with little to no possibility of locating a source has often been how people have gotten clear headed enough to compose a viable plan for themselves. Best of luck on getting everything better.