N.A. meetings and judgmental people

[Khadijah]

You haven't told your doctor you're a drug addict???? I'm starting to wonder if you even want to get clean. If not, it's fine, but don't blame the program if you're not willing to do the smallest things.

When there is a legitimate medical need for painkillers, a person needs to take them, regardless of if they are a drug addict or not. there is no reason that a person who is an addict should suffer thru that pain when there is relief available. It dont mean that he dont want to get clean. It means that he wants adequate pain releif like everybody else on this earth does. And he deserves it. he shouldnt get treated like shit and judged as "Gawd, are you even TRYING to get clean? Apparently not if you would accept a script for painkillers!" just becuz he dont buy into the crazy bullshit idea that addicts deserve to suffer and can never take painkillers again.

 

[Georgie25]

Just so there is no misinformation, below is the NA stance on Maintenance programs. To be clear, I am NOT in agreement with this. I have never been on suboxone/methadone and feel that they ARE valid options for improving an individuals standard of living (if not abused). I'm only posting this so that accurate info is given regardless of what I personally believe.

NSFW:

They make it seem like using methadone or suboxone is still using drugs/getting high in that article....

 

[OverDone]

They make it seem like using methadone or suboxone is still using drugs/getting high in that article....

i liken it to Thanksgiving dinner; you can sit at the kid's table but please don't speak to the adults until after dinner is over. Not very welcoming or attractive at all.

I'm grateful that some experienced members that I hang with do not have an opinion on methadone/suboxone. My sponsor told me today that if he doesn't have any experience in a particular area than he simply keeps his mouth shut (a valid point and one that I am incorporating into my own interactions with folks). He has no experience in this area so he doesn't talk for or against it. I think i chose sponsors wisely!

 

[Lolie]

for your analogy about the person admitted to a psychiatric hospital that says he is " totally reasonable, rational, logical, my head is all in one piece, guys please, you gotta let me out, i dont belong here, this is a mistake!" usual you wouldn't be in there if this was true. you gotta get caught doing some pretty crazy shit to get locked up in one of those. and if it was a mistake and then a sane person would go about it differently, ie. calmly explaining to them what happened and being sane. not screaming and begging w/ the staff.

This is a bad analogy as experiments have proven that people with no mental health issues and who exhibit no symptoms of mental health problems are not recognised as "normal" within institutional psychiatric settings - staff develop tunnel vision and regard those people as being "in denial" or their "illness" making them think they are well despite objective, empirical evidence of normal functioning.

The most famous experiment illustrating this was conducted by Rosenhan in the 1970s, but the results have been replicated again and again since that time (in fact I watched a documentary on one of the most recent similar experiments the other night).

In the original experiment a bunch of psychiatrists got themselves admitted to mental health wards. Immediately following admission they behaved like normal, functional adults, displaying no symptoms of the "condition" for which they were admitted. It took varying amounts of time for them to be judged fit for discharge - months in some cases - and they had to "agree" that they were mentally ill and take psychoactive drugs in order to be released.

In the second part of the experiment, staff were asked to detect "fake" patients. There were no fake patients in this part of the experiment but staff still reported significant numbers of patients as being normal people faking mental illness. In both parts of the experiment, trained professionals made the evidence fit their expectations instead of evaluating it objectively.

The analogy with AA/NA is only valid to the extent that it confirms a tendency in people to interpret information in terms of their existing viewpoint and disregard and dismiss evidence which conflicts with that viewpoint.

 

[calmAnimal]

interesting^ i completely agree with that last statement and it gives reason to why lacey and i have such strong beliefs in such opposite ends of the "spectrum". its working/works for us and that makes it hard for the other's method to seem legitimate.

lacey you said it yourself :

Not only that, but you know wat? you aint always got the same brain. Your brain grows and changes. When you recover and stop using, your brain aint the same brain it was. Just how drugs re-wire the pathways in your brain causin you to be physically changed, causing you lots of issues--The same shit happens in reverse once you quit. The "normal" brain slowly recovers and gets rebuilt. You dont keep the same fucked up drug-shaped brain forever after you be addicted to somethin. Your brain heals and becomes more like the brain it was before you ever used drugs after you stop. Physically, it changes, and mentally as well.

when you've just put the drugs down, you are in no state to question something that can save your life. the "floor" is not an appropriate place to question things. if you insist on punching holes in the program, then do so after the meeting. i do it all the time so it sucks that know one is talking to you and explaining things.

honestly the reason why no one wants to answer your questions is prob in the way you bring it up to them. you seem so confrontational that a conversation with you would be completely one-sided and that whatever you said had to be right. do you know what open-minded is? i found this :

Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Listening to others' ideas may not be easy, but it could be an valuable way to learn something new or change your perspective on life.

i question the program all the time and talk in a reasonable voice to an experienced memeber who explains why things are that way or why i was right to question certain things. for example: i, like many other addicts did not like the word " god" written all over the basic text. i asked " if we get our beliefs from past experience and not dogma, then why is our higher power called god?" it was explained to me that god is just what many addicts call their higher power, its just simpler than saying a higher power or a power greater than ourselves everytime.

the other thing i didn not like was that god is always refered to as a "he" in the basic text, same thing dogmtic. so my sponsor told me that i could go through my basic text and cross out all the "he"s and i changed them to "it"s.

if you have any questions about the program feel free to pm me. i think i have a pretty solid foundation of the program.

 

[Legerity]

If any of the times that i questioned the program, and brought up the issues I had with it, and asked for explanations, people had answered those questions, welcomed them as an opportunity to share the shit that they really believe, I would have a different point of view. But all the times i ever raised my hand and asked things that didnt make sense to me, said, 'why is this like this, when you say something completely different somewhere else in the book? How can this be, when ______", and so on....All i was ever met with was the same old shit...."As addicts, our addiction is tricky and powerful, and we always gotta be on guard. As soon as it sees us get involved in something that might kill it or disable it, it goes crazy trying to lead us astray. Having all these questions and problems with the program is your addictions way of trying to lead you away from recovery with NA. Just keep working the steps and have faith and you will begin to understand."

This is exactly how I feel. If there were room for open discussion, meetings would be a completely different experience for me. They would be empowering because people might actually listen to to you when you say something that makes sense even though it may contradict previously held beliefs.

Everything evolves. Science is far from perfect, but theories continue to be built upon and changes as new evidence is found. Most things that remains static, in my mind, becomes obsolete, because our understanding of the world is constantly changing.

I was told by my sponsor to make amends to my dealer and go pay back money that I owed him! C'mon...even if one of the steps say to make amends, is that really a smart move to make?

I just really don't understand why these isn't a willingness for change. Having such a massive support network world-wide is a beautiful thing. If there was some willingness to examine the program and permission for debate, it would be such a completely different experience.

 

[Khadijah]

I always went out of my way to be extremely non confrontational or challenging anytime I asked questions about the issues I had. Honestly, I aint doing the program, i aint interested in it and I disagree with it on a fundamental level...whenever I would ask anything it would be to try to understand the peoples minds around me...Not really that I cared for myself, becuz I aint doin the program, I aint interested in learning these things for my own use, but just to try and understand how people can hear certain things and not be like "WTF"? So when I am questioning NA its about tryna wrap my head around the whole idea. So much of it just is illogical to me and i try to have a better understanding of people who do believe it, not becuz i am interested in doin the program or knowing more about it for my own interest as far as wantin to DO it, but just like researches go into a foreign society to try and learn about it...I just try and treat my required na meetings as a national geographic adventure

 

[Bojangles69]

Eh fuck NA.
Honestly you shouldnt really perceive it as them "judging" you. I never felt that way cause I
felt too bad for most the people in the rooms. And my general state of mind most of the
time entering a meeting was "prepare to be around a bunch of extremely fucked up individuals".
I mean a good majority of NA goers are just outright insane. They whine/bitch/complain, they are selfish and so many of their egos seem so battered like they're always trying to prove theirselves in some stupid way. Like "I use to use more dope than ANYONE in this room... and I guarantee I'm more fucked up then all of you combined". Thats what NA was like for me. In
a weird sort of way the more outright fucked in the head you are the more respect you seem
to get. Its just a totally different type of culture.
And I could never understand the sheer amount of complaining that goes on, its suppose to be a motivational/inspirational type of program and its full of some of the most pesimistic people I've ever met in my life. No wonder they're always saying "one day at a time", everyday for them is the end of the world the way those people think.

Anyway as far as the "judging" I wouldn't take it that way. I'd take it more as they just don't really know how to behave properly in a social setting. I mean we are talking about a room full of junkies with mental disorders. But it seems like they use it as an excuse to be fucked up, rather than a reason to STOP COMPLAINING and SHUT THE HELL UP.

".. i was walking through the supermarket today and saw a box of ziplock sandwich bags... and then I wanted to use... and then I started crying.. and then I called my sponsor after I just got done cutting myself.. and then I opened my 12 step book and read step 1 over and over till 16 hours passed by... and then I still felt sad.. and then I came to a meeting and cried.. and my life sucks... but its good to be clean".

Thats basically how everyone shares at meetings. Just a purely random and chaotic mess of thoughts. No offense to anyone who goes to NA, but its just not for me. I WILL GO and I like some of the speakers they have, but I would never ever be able to get friendly with people and actually work the program. Its a shame because the NA meetings in the halfway house I went to were AWESOME. Every single night we had a great motivational type speaker. They didn't bitch and complain, they were positive and kept all the inmates happy. It wouldn't be rare either for me to be laughing for 90 mins straight thats how funny some of the speakers were.
Then I get out and start going to street meetings... and they are just so bland and boring, everyone was miserable/pesimistic and there was entirely too much complaining going on. I mean at some point you just need to chill the fuck out with the complaining. Those NA people look forwards to those meetings just so they can complain about useless shit.. does that REALLY make you feel "better"? No, it makes you crazier then you were when you first came into the meeting.

 

[Legerity]

Eh fuck NA.
Honestly you shouldnt really perceive it as them "judging" you. I never felt that way cause I
felt too bad for most the people in the rooms. And my general state of mind most of the
time entering a meeting was "prepare to be around a bunch of extremely fucked up individuals".
I mean a good majority of NA goers are just outright insane. They whine/bitch/complain, they are selfish and so many of their egos seem so battered like they're always trying to prove theirselves in some stupid way. Like "I use to use more dope than ANYONE in this room... and I guarantee I'm more fucked up then all of you combined". Thats what NA was like for me. In
a weird sort of way the more outright fucked in the head you are the more respect you seem
to get. Its just a totally different type of culture.
And I could never understand the sheer amount of complaining that goes on, its suppose to be a motivational/inspirational type of program and its full of some of the most pesimistic people I've ever met in my life. No wonder they're always saying "one day at a time", everyday for them is the end of the world the way those people think.

Anyway as far as the "judging" I wouldn't take it that way. I'd take it more as they just don't really know how to behave properly in a social setting. I mean we are talking about a room full of junkies with mental disorders. But it seems like they use it as an excuse to be fucked up, rather than a reason to STOP COMPLAINING and SHUT THE HELL UP.

".. i was walking through the supermarket today and saw a box of ziplock sandwich bags... and then I wanted to use... and then I started crying.. and then I called my sponsor after I just got done cutting myself.. and then I opened my 12 step book and read step 1 over and over till 16 hours passed by... and then I still felt sad.. and then I came to a meeting and cried.. and my life sucks... but its good to be clean".

Thats basically how everyone shares at meetings. Just a purely random and chaotic mess of thoughts. No offense to anyone who goes to NA, but its just not for me. I WILL GO and I like some of the speakers they have, but I would never ever be able to get friendly with people and actually work the program. Its a shame because the NA meetings in the halfway house I went to were AWESOME. Every single night we had a great motivational type speaker. They didn't bitch and complain, they were positive and kept all the inmates happy. It wouldn't be rare either for me to be laughing for 90 mins straight thats how funny some of the speakers were.
Then I get out and start going to street meetings... and they are just so bland and boring, everyone was miserable/pesimistic and there was entirely too much complaining going on. I mean at some point you just need to chill the fuck out with the complaining. Those NA people look forwards to those meetings just so they can complain about useless shit.. does that REALLY make you feel "better"? No, it makes you crazier then you were when you first came into the meeting.

Your posts are always a good read, Bojangles. Glad to see you remain true to form

 

[phactor]

Switch up meetings, I don't find judgmental people too common. I do not share that I am on Suboxone though, thats is my business and nobody else needs to know unless I chose to let them know. I know plenty of people on Suboxone that attend meetings and are working the steps. I would think that most would be much harsher with those on Methadone as compared to Suboxone.

The great thing about 12 step programs is that they are so damn flexible. Your life is unique as is your journey. In order for the 12 steps to work, one has to take ownership of their sobriety. Everyone's interpretation of the steps is different, which is awesome. Its very interesting to talk with others and see how they view certain things. I love talking and connecting with people, when I am/was using I just do not do that.

Turns out I am not very shy and am very in touch with myself. A few months ago I couldn't look someone in the eye because I was so ashamed of myself.

My NA/AA meetings are great and full of positivity. They help me quite a bit. Took me years to figure this out and be able to admit it. I tried and tried to rationalize against going and only saw the negativity at meetings (because thats what I was looking for), but when I was out of options (I almost died) and was willing to do anything then I realized that they have a tremendous amount of good people that want to help.

I tried to quit on my own, I could not. I have used for over 10 years, its what is/was hardwired into my brain. I have got to break that and meetings help.

Also, if you have a legitimate need for painkillers, of course you are allowed to take them as prescribed in the program. Its fucking common sense. If you are in pain from some type of procedure and are not allowed to take them, don't you think you would be in a greater position for relapse? That is the last thing that the program wants to happen. I know plenty of people who have taken medications after medical operations.

I will be totally blunt, I feel that most people that sit and trash 12 step programs on this site are the ones that need them the most. I know I used to say "Its great if the 12 step programs work for you, but they don't for me". I was totally wrong. Before that, I would completely trash them. Over time I saw them work for others though, so at that point I realized that it could work. I just kept telling myself it wouldn't work for me. It literally took a near death experience for me to give them an honest chance.

If the program is benefitting you and you are doing it honestly then you are fine IMO.

 

[phactor]

Lacey i love readin when u talk about n.a. You keep it so real ................Its funny how my sponser was the door greeter for his whole first year at the meetings and he smoked crack that whole time now he is judging me for being on methadone .guess he forgot he was on it for years and didnt get clean til he was 40 something , now he shows up to meetings for the last ten minutes and 13th steps (picks up new girls who just are getting clean( then brags to me how he has Viagra for them ) lol

Why did you even pick this guy as a sponsor in the first place? Obviously he has some major issues. If you didn't know about them at first, you should have dropped him immediately when you noticed these things.

Fucked up people tend to use drugs, not everyone stays that fucked up after they stop, however some do.

".. i was walking through the supermarket today and saw a box of ziplock sandwich bags... and then I wanted to use... and then I started crying.. and then I called my sponsor after I just got done cutting myself.. and then I opened my 12 step book and read step 1 over and over till 16 hours passed by... and then I still felt sad.. and then I came to a meeting and cried.. and my life sucks... but its good to be clean".

Thats basically how everyone shares at meetings. Just a purely random and chaotic mess of thoughts.

That has not been my experience at all... quite the opposite in fact. Most people, including myself talk about gratitude for the people in the program that help them and how much better their lives are now that they are off of drugs. I don't know how many meetings you have been to, but thats a pretty big blanket judgement you made.

Gratitude is one of my favorite topics. The meeting I was at today really gave me a good lift and showed me that things are much better clean.

Shit last year at this time I was fucking miserable. I honestly feel like my life has been given back to me. I am comfortable in my own skin finally. 12 step meetings play a big role in my recovery.

 

[Khadijah]

phactor,im curious about something you said...that the people who got negative shit to say about the programs often need them the most...do you believe that applies to people who are clean? Or just the addicts who trash NA but dont wanna stop using. I can see that bein true for the second but I would think that a person who dont feel all too positive towards NA and was able to get clean for a decent amount of time on their own without meetings, would kind of have "earned" the right to say something....You know "Dont bitch if you cant do no better"...In that case, the person did do better, and got clean without the program, so have they earned the right to say the shit they want to say about it? I aint askin this in a way like challenging you or nothing, I was just interested to hear your thoughts about that part of the subject. I agree that alot of times addicts will trash anything becuz I know for me at least, getting clean was 'stupid'....rehab was stupid, na was stupid, group therapy was stupid, etc. It was all stupid shit becuz i wanted to keep using and i just couldnt get with the idea of all that shit. So trashing "recovery" in general was just kinda how i was at the time. The person whose using who is bashin all these different ways might need a little help, yea i agree with u there.

Just wanted to know ur opinion when it comes to the people who successfully got themselves clean completely without the steps or going to meetings or w/ever, do you still think that they need the program or did they earn the right to speak their mind on it since they did find somethin else that worked for them.

 

[phactor]

^^

Well if you are clean, then obviously you have found a way out. In no way do I believe that "AA/NA are the only way". In fact, in the latest Grapvine (AA's magazine) an article was written about how damaging those statements are. I do feel that many people on bluelight/TDS view people that go to meetings as "weak". But its the opposite IMO. The people that go to meetings and are honest are putting in the work to get over their addiction by any means possible. I know for me that getting clean is the hardest thing I have ever done. I am so thankful that I have meetings and Suboxone to help, because I need that stuff.

There was a person at the meeting today that stated that she had six months clean and the reason she relapsed was because "she took back control from god". Almost everyone at the meeting but it nicely to her that she was using an excuse and ultimately she has to put in the work herself. Nobody can make her not drink but herself. She also was not going to meetings regularly, did not have a sponsor and was not making contacts. If she had someone to call before she drank, she very well may not have relapsed.

I personally have put up decent amounts of clean time without the program but I was always miserable. Today with the program I am not. This is because I can contact people who support my sobriety. My older true friends and my family see that this attempt it legit, not something that will eventually break their heart again when I relapse. The major difference this time is that I am working the program and actually want to get clean. I want to get clean so badly now that I am willing to go to any lengths. That includes sitting through an hour long meeting that I might not like. It also includes me finding a different meeting that fits me better. They are out there, but a person has to look.

I look at meetings as self-help groups. Some people take them way to extreme. However, our addiction will do anything it can to survive. Do you see people that do not drink or use or have it under control making statements like BoJangles? I certainly do not. Most "normal" people view the program as something that helps addicts. They do not know that much about it because they have never had to use anything like it. Sometimes the Jesusy/Christian meetings get on my nerves, but I understand that is because many peoples understanding of "God" comes from Christianity. This is how they have to view it in order to get clean. NA was started by a bunch of southern good ole boys. So of course, they are going to include alot of "God Stuff", its just how it was. But they left it very open for people to craft the program into something they can use. The program is very flexible, it just takes work to find what fits. It is not rigid by any means which is something I used to tell myself all the time.

I live in Chicago now and have the luxory to attend meetings that fit me very well. In Chicago, people are exposed to many different types of beliefs, which creates many different interpretations of the steps and the HP. I go to a variety of meetings because I like to meet different kinds of people. I am very interested in the human experience.

When I come home to Rockford IL many of the meetings are judea-christian. This doesn't bother me because most people here do not have shit but alcohol or religion to rely on because their are no jobs and drinking/drugging are the only thing people have to do.

In fact, Bill W stated that one of his biggest regrets was they way he ended the chapter to the agnostic.

In my experience I was totally bashing the program as a way to convince myself that I did not need it and that it would not help me. I knew that I was an addict and that my using was out of control, but I kept telling myself that I could eventually control it. Why was it such a big deal for me to control it? Because I was addicted and trying to rationalize my use.

The easiest way for me to discredit the program was to claim it was a cult, that everyone was a loser and depressed and that it was better off for me to use then to "be reliant" on stupid meetings. I now know that that its the exact opposite. My life is not defined by meetings, but I need to be reminded that I am an addict. I am a great rationalizer. Shit, I try to rationalize drinking and using almost every night in my dreams.

When I saw it actually start to work for people I knew had to change my opinion. At first I told myself "well I am not that bad, so I do not need it". Then like I said it changed to "it works for others but not for me". Now I realize that I need to support of others and right now I am finding it through meetings. I am also gifted to be in a wonderful program that individualizes the patients treatment. It is not a cookie cutter treatment program, which is something I have been through previously. The second one of which turned me off of AA/NA for a long time. I also wasn't ready to get sober at that time because I didn't want too.

At the core I want people to get sober by any means. 12 Steps do not work for everyone, in fact I can admit they may harm some. However, there really is no reason IMO to trash something that works for others.

 

[Georgie25]

Agree'd man^^ Keep up the good work. I just started going to meetings three weeks ago and the first week I was "meeting shopping" to find the right ones for me. Went to 4 meetings that week and only 1 of them I didn't like that seemed unwelcoming and on the negative side. But I also found a GREAT meeting near where I live now (made the descion to move 2 hours away from the city I used to cop dope from so I didnt have access anymore and get my life straight). The speakers are always inspiring and 90% of the stories told by the other people attending are also positive and uplifting about how they have managed to conquer their addiction. I sit and listen in the hopes I will catch some good information and make sure it fits with me as well, since it's important to make your own choices not just listen to other people and try to follow the same path. I think if people who dont like NA meetings actually went with an open mind and positive attitude and took the time to find the right meeting place for them, it'll at the very least give them a postive support structure..

 

[Jabberwocky]

NA has a culture. It is going to vary from meeting to meeting and member to member. Almost every NA meeting regards the NA way of handling addiction as real and largely superior to other approaches. Moderation, maintenance, medical approaches, and other forms self help, are very often held as suspect. It is just the way it is. Some NA members are going to be more tolerant than others but when you come in with a non-NA or counter-NA approach to things you are perceived like a a diet-Coke salesman at a natural food convention.

The judgment at meetings has an angle of wanting the person with a "alien" take on addiction to fall in line but its also that different approaches are seen as threats to other members recovery. Once your in a meeting a kindness to newcomers is kind of required They'd rather you come around to their way rather than try modes they regard as dangerous and ineffective. NA folks are seldom going to come out and tell you we have our way and if you don't like it you can go out and found your own organization. Unsaid though it is I think their having their way that they are not going to dilute or compromise is the main part of any actual judgment that happens at NA. Some perceived judgment might actually be about being a new comer in an established culture.

Add to this that NA and many other approaches to addiction have a fundamental assumption that addicts have denial and a huge inability to grasp the nature of their addiction, their use, and its consequences.

 

[jake99]

wow i cant wait til i got time to read all these replies.....................i knew i never should have mentioned the meth clinic to anyone in n.a. ppl actually stopped talkin to me who werre my friends because of this lol this one kid i saw today at the clinic gettin dosed had said he was on subs b4 but he prob was on meth and didnt want n.a. ppl to know . i may just go to more a.a. now i just hate hearing about alcohol cuz i never even liked it but its the same program........i dont know . honestly im not ready to be clean . i mean id like to but even after all the trouble its caused me i dont think i can deal with life sober............im just bein honest, and if i say that in a meeting theyre gonna give me a big book beat down .............my one boy who was doin like 2 buns a day and about 20 zanny bars somehow kicked cold turkey in a house iin north phillly now he is all in a.a. talkin about how he fuond god and is on "firm spritual ground" and all and i am happy 4 him that he is clean but it freaks me out to see him talkin abuot the god stuff. i never could get that.............like he is facing serious charges and he isnt even worried about it . i never could do that . but hey more power to him , i just feel so guilty because he is on me REAL hard about getting off the methadone , and i dont feel like is being fair , he is trying to look out for me and i agree bein on the clinic long term aint a great idea, but i may need it a few months at least....................

 

[*Venus*]

You have to remember that unless you are going to huge meetings, most groups are tight knit and have members that are all familiar with each other. New members are paid extra unintentional scrutiny by the regulars, its simply human nature.

So here you are, walking in uncomfortable and generally coming off as unapproachable while the others talk amongst themselves while stealing curious glances your way. You are probably still getting high, and they know it. You have to realize that this is almost expected at first. Until people have witnessed your dedication to sobriety, many don't want to get wrapped up in the emotional relapses that come early in recovery. I personally wouldn't give much of myself to someone that I knew wanted to get clean for the first time simply because it rarely takes less than months, years to get serious about it.

This person is a threat in a sense as well. It saddens me to admit that as a semi-serious amateur member, I sought out the company of two recovering male members and quickly brought them down with me. Years of combined sobriety between the two, cut short by getting involved with a current user. It is simply too risky for many to be close to people that are still using.

It sucks, because new members are the most important members. But if you are showing up high like you've admitted, addicts will sense this, and it is not just them but you that has opened the door for judgments to be made. These people are fighting for their lives, and have little choice but to avoid someone or something that could sway them off course.

With that said, fuck the people that are assholes just to be assholes. Or AA fucks who think NA is somehow for a class of lower people who need their own group. This one old AA fart interrupted a new addict when she brought up drug issues. He was basically like, "This is AA you dumb bitch, alcohol discussion only." So rarely are people not cross addicted, ya know?

 

[Nibblez]

Fact of life - everywhere you go, you will find assholes. The trick is learning how to ignore them.

 

[Bojangles69]

That has not been my experience at all... quite the opposite in fact. Most people, including myself talk about gratitude for the people in the program that help them and how much better their lives are now that they are off of drugs. I don't know how many meetings you have been to, but thats a pretty big blanket judgement you made.

Gratitude is one of my favorite topics. The meeting I was at today really gave me a good lift and showed me that things are much better clean.

Shit last year at this time I was fucking miserable. I honestly feel like my life has been given back to me. I am comfortable in my own skin finally. 12 step meetings play a big role in my recovery.

I did 3 years straight 365 days a year and the last year and a half the meetings were ALL 3 hours long. This was at Tully House, NJ. Then 3 more years on parole at no less than 4 times a week. So I've been to a lot and seen the difference.
In meetings, when people share, it makes you feel good, but it also learned helplessness. The 12 steps themself are absolute and maniacal. "We admitted we were powerless over our addiction, and that our lives have become unmanagable". That is utter bullshit and you know that. All that does is just shift responsibility from yourself onto an invented weakness, then you use that weakness to justify your own lack of responsibility. Its sick. Just stop using and build a real life you like. Or maybe its just that I'm too positive a person, but all they really do is complain complain complain.
If you think thats unjustified, opinions are allowed to be that way.

 

[calmAnimal]

tully housw huh? your mad close to me then if your still around that area.

i know a woman that is a counselor their. she's pretty hot and she carries a good message.