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[Mushrooms Subthread] Potentiation by Citrus Juice

Are the effects of mushrooms stronger taken with lemon- or orange juice?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 63.6%

  • No

    Votes: 12 36.4%
  • Total voters
    33
I just tried the lemon juice method this past weekend with ~2 g's finely ground, soaked it in the juice for about 5-10 min then mixed it with oj then down the hatch, I also held about a half a g in my mouth for a good 10 min.
It hit me fast and hard, within an hour I was feeling pretty damn good. Only drawback is that it doesn't last that long say as just eating them. Give 'er a try!
 
I want to make my shrooms trip as long as possible and intense as possible. What can you do in order to do that besides the orange juice and lemon method, although I will try the lemon one mentioned above soon :), just not for my next trip cause like I said I want it to be long. And also does anything intensify and make an acid trip longer?
 
I highly recommend this method. For me it makes the mushrooms about twice as strong as if I just ate them.
 
Added poll, IMO it would be interesting to see some data on whether this seems to work. It's not the same as scientific evidence but I will take an approximation instead, with hopefully some statistical significance. :)
 
Both powdering as well as soaking or consuming with an acid like juice is going to increase how much / how fast your system can get all the active substances out of them, most definitely.

Probably true with just about any plant based stuff. Long know truism of herbal supplementation / medicine.
 
The working theory I currenly adhere to is that some alkaloids like *some* tryptamines have a better absorption rate when taken with an acidic solution, while others like *some* phenethylamines have a better absorption rate when taken with an alkaline solution - hence the antacids + MDMA or methylone combination.

I am not sure about any evidence other than anecdotal, and I am also not sure about the range of compounds these rules apply to.

Some people have said that the acidity of the stomach can only be changed marginally by either acids or bases because of the strong stomach acid and the logarithmic scale of acidity. It could be true but convinced I am not.

Anyway it might not be a bad idea at all to try a 2C-X with an antacid for example.
 
1. People use acids to extract alkaloids including tryptamines from plant material all the time. This is well known hard-fact chemistry.

2. An empty stomach is not just sitting around with a pool of strong acid in it. That is a common uneducated misconception. Acids are VERY costly in terms of energy and materials for the body to synthesize, so that would be a waste, and also damaging to the stomach and intestine. They are only released AS NEEDED by ingestion of food containing calories needing digestion. A few grams of shrooms, taken on an otherwise empty stomach for better absorption reasons, are not enough to trigger significant digestive acid release. Hence soaking_in/consuming_with a strong acid like OJ *will* improve extraction of the tryptamines.

3. Yes, Phenethylamines, both amphetamine compounds, methyhlone etc, as well as 2-C drugs are all INHIBITED in absorption as well as EXCRETED FASTER in the presence of acids. Also well known scientific pharmacology, NOT anecdotal (there are often warning stickers on prescription amphetamines that juice and other acids will make them weaker, antacids will make them stronger. But its hard to get enough taking chewable TUMS tabs... one teaspoon on baking soda exactly 10 minutes on an empty stomach prior to methylone will increase potency by about 1/3 I have found... although it seems to have the side effect of total-water emissions out the other end a couple hours later, unfortunately, so I tend not to do it.
 
DwayneHoover said:
1. People use acids to extract alkaloids including tryptamines from plant material all the time. This is well known hard-fact chemistry.

2. An empty stomach is not just sitting around with a pool of strong acid in it. That is a common uneducated misconception. Acids are VERY costly in terms of energy and materials for the body to synthesize, so that would be a waste, and also damaging to the stomach and intestine. They are only released AS NEEDED by ingestion of food containing calories needing digestion. A few grams of shrooms, taken on an otherwise empty stomach for better absorption reasons, are not enough to trigger significant digestive acid release. Hence soaking_in/consuming_with a strong acid like OJ *will* improve extraction of the tryptamines.

3. Yes, Phenethylamines, both amphetamine compounds, methyhlone etc, as well as 2-C drugs are all INHIBITED in absorption as well as EXCRETED FASTER in the presence of acids. Also well known scientific pharmacology, NOT anecdotal (there are often warning stickers on prescription amphetamines that juice and other acids will make them weaker, antacids will make them stronger. But its hard to get enough taking chewable TUMS tabs... one teaspoon on baking soda exactly 10 minutes on an empty stomach prior to methylone will increase potency by about 1/3 I have found... although it seems to have the side effect of total-water emissions out the other end a couple hours later, unfortunately, so I tend not to do it.
Click to expand...


i think the only probable value of citric acid is in no1.

on no2 i might say that that is not exact. the stomach does contain enough acid in it at all times (as to prevent bacteria forming) and while it isnt the strongest acid out there (the normal ph is somewhere between 1.4 and 2 iirc) it does exist. in fact, drinking oj might decrease the acidity momentarily by dilution alone, while drinking milk (or nay other calcium containing drink) some time before might increase acidity of the stomach.

while acid production is indeed costly, it is more costly to not have a proper barrier against germs. the lining of the gut is such formed that the protons excreted are countered by bases that blend in the mucus (for example) of the lining, as well as other means of protection (like increased blood flow). there are of course great variations of ph, but generally it stays acid.

no3. hmm, i wouldnt recommend eating baking soda as such. it can be absorbed and cause imbalances in blood ph (which can be dangerous). instead one might try antiacids.

i have no experience with this, but if one is looking to try it out, the best antiacids out there are proton pump inhibitors (omeprazone, esomeprazole for instance). a 20mg dose 12h prior (i would go as far as to say you could take it for a couple of days before a planned trip) will inhibit 98% of the acid production of the stomach with little if any adverse reactions.
 
DwayneHoover said:
1. People use acids to extract alkaloids including tryptamines from plant material all the time. This is well known hard-fact chemistry.

2. An empty stomach is not just sitting around with a pool of strong acid in it. That is a common uneducated misconception. Acids are VERY costly in terms of energy and materials for the body to synthesize, so that would be a waste, and also damaging to the stomach and intestine. They are only released AS NEEDED by ingestion of food containing calories needing digestion. A few grams of shrooms, taken on an otherwise empty stomach for better absorption reasons, are not enough to trigger significant digestive acid release. Hence soaking_in/consuming_with a strong acid like OJ *will* improve extraction of the tryptamines.

3. Yes, Phenethylamines, both amphetamine compounds, methyhlone etc, as well as 2-C drugs are all INHIBITED in absorption as well as EXCRETED FASTER in the presence of acids. Also well known scientific pharmacology, NOT anecdotal (there are often warning stickers on prescription amphetamines that juice and other acids will make them weaker, antacids will make them stronger. But its hard to get enough taking chewable TUMS tabs... one teaspoon on baking soda exactly 10 minutes on an empty stomach prior to methylone will increase potency by about 1/3 I have found... although it seems to have the side effect of total-water emissions out the other end a couple hours later, unfortunately, so I tend not to do it.
Click to expand...

Good info, thanks very much. I have only one comment on #1 and that is that in that situation DMT seems to be bounded to tannic acid in plant material which might not dissolve as well in water. I think that is the reason you want to lower the pH to try and increase the dissociation of those salts as well as get the possible freebase alkaloid in there. It doesn't really seem like evidence for the Citrus theory (if we can call it that haha :D ) because that is about physiological conditions and transporting compounds across membranes and those kinds of things.

Yeah but good stuff, I knew there was something to it.
 
someone back in the 1960's said that "orange juice" or citrus or vitamin C enhances trips and for some reason it stuck like glue to the drug community ever since. I've tried it and by god all it does it taste awesome. But it's wishful thinking at best to think that it can make a trip even a tad bit more potent.
 
Probably just placebo. People used to say the same thing about OJ and acid when I was in college. Also there are mescaline extraction recipies that call for extra lemon juice when the lemon juice is only used to extract the mescaline because of its acidic properties. Like when making mescaline citrate. Bottom line......CITRUS FRUITS DO NOT ENHANCE PSYCHEDELICS PEOPLE!!!!!!. I could be wrong though
 
Definitely placebo. But scientists have proven that performing a headstand for approximately 20 minutes (after that diminishing returns kick in) prior to ingesting the mushrooms will increase the mushroom potency ten-fold. It is very important to...

A ...perform the headstand prior to ingestion.
B ...wear yellow ballerina shoes.

Happy tripping!

Note: Just eat more mushrooms and you'll be fine.
 
kingme said:
no3. hmm, i wouldnt recommend eating baking soda as such. it can be absorbed and cause imbalances in blood ph (which can be dangerous). instead one might try antiacids.
Click to expand...
NaHCO3, once it is in the blood plasma will be present in Na+ ions and HCO3- ions with the HCO3- acting as an acceptor of protons which could theoretically raise blood ph.

From my understanding though, this will be countered by the presence of carbonic acid (H2CO3), which can be synthesized at an extremely high rate from CO2 and H2O, both available in abundance through respiration.

H2CO3 and HCO3- are in an equilibrium, so if there are actually too few protons (high blood ph), formation of H2CO3 (which also stands in equilibrium with CO2 and H2O) will counteract this rise in blood ph.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I really doubt the ingestion of a few grams of NaHCO3 will have any effect on physiological ph at all. I once read an article about two scientists who tried to raise/lower their ph with all kinds of tricks and were eventually successful, but had to be quite inventive. It was featured in the most recent edition of Lehninger's biochemistry.
 
My experience with this has been that I need less mushrooms to trip if I grind/crush the dried mushroom matter to powder and dissolve/suspend it in a shot glass of lemon juice. 1.25g is generally enough for me when I use this method, whereas 2g of whole dried mushrooms do the same thing if I just chew them up.

I can't imagine that orange juice would do very much though.
 
crOOk said:
Definitely placebo. But scientists have proven that performing a headstand for approximately 20 minutes (after that diminishing returns kick in) prior to ingesting the mushrooms will increase the mushroom potency ten-fold. It is very important to...

A ...perform the headstand prior to ingestion.
B ...wear yellow ballerina shoes.
Click to expand...

I found wearing a highland kilt with no underpants while doing the handstand improved absorbtion rates enormously. It must be a genuine highland kilt tho, just wearing your moms skirt won't work.
 
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