Dissociatives [Methoxetamine Subthread] Combinations - 2nd experiment

[Chocolate-Salad]

I combined 2cb and mxe on my first attempt to reach a hole. I was hoping the 2cb would keep it positive cause I didn't know what to expect. Insufflated 15mg of the HBr salt and followed with 50mg mxe 40 minutes later after the ridiculous come up. I then waited a half hour and added an additional 30mg of mxe. This isn't the place for a trip report but I'd call it a very confusing experience. I am not sure what an mhole is supposed to feel like so I'm not sure if I reached it but the experience overall wasn't positive or negative. At one point I recall everything in my vision melting away and completely changing as if it suddenly became alien to me. Might have been my first taste of ego loss. I might just stick with 50 next time cause of how long it takes for mxe to peak Imo.

/edit
Overall it wasn't what I was expecting. I think I was circling the drain or something.
Would spacing my doses help?

 

[crOOk]

ffs stop talking about m-holes or at least get 100% straight what a k-hole really is. there is no such thing on mxe!!

tell that to the candyflip thread and see what they say

true that. vast generalization there on my side and not entirely correct. it is problematic when the combo hasn't proven to be relatively safe though. id kinda have to stick to my statement there, but it surely is more of a rule of thumb when uncertain about a new combo.

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

ffs stop talking about m-holes or at least get 100% straight what a k-hole really is. there is no such thing on mxe!!

true that. vast generalization there on my side and not entirely correct. it is problematic when the combo hasn't proven to be relatively safe though. id kinda have to stick to my statement there, but it surely is more of a rule of thumb when uncertain about a new combo.

Then the only use mxe has with psychedelics is using in small doses in order to potentiate? I've holed on ketamine once before and heard all of the things said about mxe but I find its too stimulating and not anesthetizing enough to achieve that sort of hole. And way too confusing. Higher doses of mxe feels more like blacking out to me.

Still, calling it a hole is much easier and shorter than saying a large dose of methoxetamine. So I see nothing wrong with it. And by gauging its popularity I can bet many people disagree with you as well. And many people like that sort of large dose hole from the experiences I keep seeing everywhere.

Besides
I'd still consider it useful in certain cases moreso at lower doses where I'm comfortable.

 

[crOOk]

Then the only use mxe has with psychedelics is using in small doses in order to potentiate? I've holed on ketamine once before and heard all of the things said about mxe but I find its too stimulating and not anesthetizing enough to achieve that sort of hole. And way too confusing. Higher doses of mxe feels more like blacking out to me.

Still, calling it a hole is much easier and shorter than saying a large dose of methoxetamine. So I see nothing wrong with it. And by gauging its popularity I can bet many people disagree with you as well. And many people like that sort of large dose hole from the experiences I keep seeing everywhere.

Besides
I'd still consider it useful in certain cases moreso at lower doses where I'm comfortable.

Yeah feels more like blacking out at the upper limit of the dosage range, exactly. I'm not saying the substance is completely useless either. I just don't like seeing the expression hole being misused by people who usually don't know what a hole is in the first place. It creates confusion and often false advertisement for the substance. The huge popularity of MXE is partially due to people not being able to score ketamine. I understand it's easier to use the word, but I'd prefer it if people were informed correctly about the terms they are using. There's always gonna be people who disapprove the use of such linguistic shortcuts. Might seem uptight I guess.

Btw people have even started using the word hole for sub-breakthrough dosages of ketamine, it just doesn't belong there. Just like people have been misusing the term "++++", which was originally attributed to mystical/religious experiences that shake the very foundations of a person's belief system, while a "+++" can be just as intense in terms of pharmacological effects. It's easier to call Puerto Ricans Mexicans, too, and lots of people in the Southern states of the USA will probably never cease to do so. Still I would disapprove and so would most Puerto Ricans. We should not let our language degrade like that.

 

[taco bell]

Saying you cant hole on mxe is just wrong, granted its not as guaranteed as with ketamine you need the setting to be right, and usually only happens about 30-40% of the time, it wont just happen willingly or not, like ketamine. I sometimes prefer the mxe hole to ketamine, your mind is more in control as to where you fly and which directions you float and lasts a bit longer and theres more "ah ha" moments and crazy thoughts and insite as opposed to ketamine where the whole time where I'm mostly just thinking holy shit this is crazy, but if you've spent years doing ketamine you're not going to find mxe as intense. I've never had the feeling that im going to black out either unless benzos are involved, Its too stimulating, even at the highest doses going through more than a gram a day I've always had trouble getting to sleep on it. I know that if I was stuck on an island and had to choose between mxe and ketamine, I'd probably go with mxe.

 

[Obsidius]

@crook: a linguistic shortcut is not a degradation, it's an actual improvement. by using one word to generate the same consensus as saying "a transcendental, in-my-head, lucid dream-like state and disconnection of my general ability to perceive reality, whilst getting served a freely associated, hence disassociated alternative one", i rather prefer people calling it a "hole". you cannot compare peoples experiences one by one anyway. you cannot get rid of the subjectivity in this regard to brand the term "hole" as a scientific one.

although i agree, we shall not let your communication degrade to an extent that we get ignorant about facts (puerto ricans calling mexicans and such), still a linguistic shortcut while being highly subjective seems more of an improvement to me. little experiment: try to describe a random emotion to a stranger with focus on being as objective as possible (you dont know him, he does not know you, common ground shortcuts are not possible).

 

[crOOk]

@Linguistic shortcuts might often be progressive for a language, making it more accessible, easier to use or understand, but I was specifically referring to the an expression being overused until it's meaning is blurred, my bad. Admittedly, my example was very bad as well.
And thanks taco bell for clearing that up, I never got there with MXE despite trying my best. High enough dose with a roa that guarantees a rapid onset, laying down, lights off, even used ear plugs once. Never even remotely close. Just blackness, an empty void filled with nothing but my altered thoughts.

 

[Obsidius]

most people distinguish these 2 states anyway by referring to them as "m-hole" or "k-hole", already pointing out, that both might have different properties.

and regarding the "no hole on MXE": there definitly is a hole-like state. but it's a bit more complex to reach than a k-hole. it seems to me (especially with tolerance and already have had many m-holes) that you need to meditate yourself into this trance like flight. there are certainly ways that help reaching that point, for instance sensory deprivation (what lying down in a dark room is at a base level... for a more advanced technique without access to a deprivation water tank try the ganzfeld method: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_experiment ) and also the use of a PEA combination like 2C-D, although one wants to watch the dose with PEAs. but you'll never or very hardly get pushed into it by force or high dose, i guess because of the stimulation, that will keep you at pace. you need to let go and direct your own flight more like a lucid dream than to wait for something to happen on its own. at least thats it for me. i could NEVER EVER reach the same states with walking around or attending a party or even watching a movie sitting upwards than with lying down in a pitch black room and "void gaze" into the nothingness without makeing a single move for hours. it even works better without music, although i like the auditory "shift" of mind movies as the music changes. its like the perfect soundtrack to your realtime experience.

 

[THCified]

...although i like the auditory "shift" of mind movies as the music changes.

Absolutely agreed! The "M-Hole"-state is something that is, as far as my experience goes, not related to how much you've consumed, but how you've spend your time during the trip.

If you add some THC to the experience, it's almost inevitable to hole if you lay down, listen to your music of choice and just let go!

Slide!

 

[oar9fi]

I prefer the term "trance" to hole because that's what it is. The right mind state,music, headphones & a "sleep mask" help tremendously in achieving a trance state (and no, the music dosent have to be trance ) You need to work with it, it's not as simple as "XXmg will make you hole" like K. Once you're in though, you're in. And occasionally it just doesn't work. But once you learn to work with it, you can get there ~90% of the time. And there is the possibility that it just doesn't work the same for some people, but I think you're just not doing it right

 

[HofmannBlotter]

^ if you lower your usual dose of MXE it certainly felt safe to me everytime i did it. 2C-D's tofu qualities synergized wonderfully with all kinds of dissociatives and certainly it does with MXE.
what you consider a "small dose of 2C-D"? around 20-25mg? should be no problem. i pushed it to 50mg once but that got too chaotic. up until 30mg and a slightly lower MXE dose always gave me a wonderful journey (if your normal m-hole dose of MXE is 100mg down the dose to 75mg).

i'd take the 2c-d first and let it develop and then stagger MXE in 20mg bumps until desired state is reached. bombing both at once can be chaotic if you never combined PEAs and dissocs.

All right, thank you

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

When I say blacking out, I mean having no recollection of the hours in which I was inebriated. Sorta like a large dose of xanax while being awake lol.
I plan on trying mxe+4-aco-dmt sometime soon. Maybe this weekend. I'll keep it at 2x30mg spaced out by 45 minutes and see where it gets me.
I wish I hadn't pushed my mxe dose so high on 2c-b. It would've made for a better experience and the visuals were out of this world. And I might have been able to remember it!

Btw people have even started using the word hole for sub-breakthrough dosages of ketamine, it just doesn't belong there. Just like people have been misusing the term "++++", which was originally attributed to mystical/religious experiences that shake the very foundations of a person's belief system, while a "+++" can be just as intense in terms of pharmacological effects. It's easier to call Puerto Ricans Mexicans, too, and lots of people in the Southern states of the USA will probably never cease to do so. Still I would disapprove and so would most Puerto Ricans. We should not let our language degrade like that.

I'm wrong about referring to a hole as a large dose of M. But with K, a hole is inevitable at a massive dose hehe. So there is a difference between the two when choosing words. I haven't read through this (rather large) thread but I'm curious if MXE has ever enhanced an experience to the point to where it became a ++++ for you whereas it wouldn't have been without. I'm curious because maybe MXE can help me go places I can't normally. I'm trying to push the boundaries of the experiences I'm used to and in turn regain a sense of novelty. And I've yet to have a substance shake my core. Any input would be well appreciated :3

 

[crOOk]

I'm wrong about referring to a hole as a large dose of M. But with K, a hole is inevitable at a massive dose hehe. So there is a difference between the two when choosing words. I haven't read through this (rather large) thread but I'm curious if MXE has ever enhanced an experience to the point to where it became a ++++ for you whereas it wouldn't have been without. I'm curious because maybe MXE can help me go places I can't normally. I'm trying to push the boundaries of the experiences I'm used to and in turn regain a sense of novelty. And I've yet to have a substance shake my core. Any input would be well appreciated :3

First of all, you need to be aware of the fact, that ++++ is not related to the intensity of the experience. The first three stages +, ++, +++ are directly related to the intensity of the experience, while in my experience a ++++ is generally more likely to occur on a larger dose of a substance, it could just as well happen on a relatively weak dosage, that carries some sort of profound aspect that shakes you to the core. The term is kinda misleading in that sense and calling it a mystical or religious experience is far more appropriate imho
That being said, in the roughly 200-300 psychedelic experiences I've had, I experienced 2 ++++. Both occured on DMT and one of them was aided by a prior visit to the ketamine realm (dmt smoked on the comedown). I'd therefore suspect that MXE should just as well be useful in facilitating such an experience. Noone will be able to give you any reliable statistical information though, since ++++'s can only be experienced a few times in a lifetime.

edit: And before I forget: Thanks you guys, for clearing up those things about MXE. I really wasn't aware there was any way to get to another place on it, as in physically feel like you're travelling, morphing into the perceived surroundings etc. Maybe I wasn't patient enough with that one. The main reason why I didn't like it is because it made me do really stupid shit that I'd massively regret later on. Things I never even did on pcp. I might've started workign as a cam stripper on pcp and never gave a damn what people thought of me, but MXE made me plain offensive towards others. It went past not caring what others thought over to trying to provoke negative reactions I guess.

I am completely aware. I apologize if I come off as someone who is trying to dispute what you're saying, or an ass, as that's not my goal. I'm just interested in what you have to say!
I wasn't referring to the intensity, or anything of that sort. I just wanted to know if MXE was able to 'enhance' an experience to a ++++. Push it over the edge, ya know? I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing that like you have, and I hope that I will be able to in my lifetime.

It's probably not nice quoting you on a post you deleted, but I don't see anything wrong with the post. Like I said, I'm pretty positive it could do that. I never found much spiritual value in MXE in particular, but I'm quite certain it could do that just like ketamine can. I don't think you can force a ++++ though. I used to always prepare like crazy for my trips and get everything right and when I actually had my breakthrough, I was in the worst possible setting with a few total burn outs who kept talking while I was gone lol. For me it just happened after countless experiments with entheogens, though others will probably disagree and attribute theirs more to a long term spiritual journey they actively prepared for. I was definitely looking for it subconsciously btw, since after the experience my formerly strong desire to take psychedelics had almost completely vanished.

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

I am completely aware. I apologize if I come off as someone who is trying to dispute what you're saying, or an ass, as that's not my goal. I'm just interested in what you have to say!
I wasn't referring to the intensity, or anything of that sort. I just wanted to know if MXE was able to 'enhance' an experience to a ++++. Push it over the edge, ya know? I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing that like you have, and I hope that I will be able to in my lifetime.

 

[HofmannBlotter]

Hi,

Well finally I didn't mix the Methoxetamine with 2C-D but I have another question then.

I'm going to a 3-days music festival. I was planning to take some 2C-D the first day and Methoxetamine the next day. Will it be OK to do or should I be cautious with the risk of Serotonine Syndrom ?

Thank you very much

 

[foolsgold]

sorry but i totally disagree with this " ffs stop talking about m-holes or at least get 100% straight what a k-hole really is. there is no such thing on mxe!! " iv gone into a mhole every time and done enough ket to know thats what i was in .

 

[pharmakos]

sorry but i totally disagree with this " ffs stop talking about m-holes or at least get 100% straight what a k-hole really is. there is no such thing on mxe!! " iv gone into a mhole every time and done enough ket to know thats what i was in .

i think MXE produces more of a dissociative tolerance than K produces... the people that don't M-Hole possibly mess around with low doses for too long before they try to M-Hole

 

[Folley]

Does anyone have some LEGITIMATE evidence that MXE is dangerous to consume with other serotonergics?


I believe in the case of stimulants and empathogens it can be, but I can't possibly see any need for caution when mixing with the 2C-x series??? (excluding 2C-Tx)

 

[pharmakos]

^^ i've mixed it with 2C-I and 2C-P and didn't notice any ill effects

 

[ebola?]

I can't possibly see any need for caution when mixing with the 2C-x series???

Theoretically, things should be okay with compounds that don't release 5ht or mess with its its reuptake. But there have been a couple of worrying anecdotes about combination of MXE with classical psychs.

ebola