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Meth/Amphetamines: Serious Discussion Only - V.2: MERGED with amps quitting thread

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^^ I sort of feel like maintenance therapy with adderall or whatever may not be so helpful. Like you said, I think the main difference of bupe/methadone is that it prevents the physical withdrawal, plus, as far as I'm aware bupe/methadone are much less toxic to the body and brain to stay on for an extended period of time than meth/amphetamines.

For people that use meth/amphetamine to self medicate (for ADD/ADHD) I would fully support they go on precribed amphetamines. But for people who use meth/amphetamine for other reasons, I wonder how helpful it would really be to reduce cravings. One of the reasons I quit was I got so sick or craving it all the time, it was always there, apart from maybe one hour after getting on. I feel like maintenance on amphetamines, for me, would just feed into that craving, so it never went away - I don't think any daily dose could hold me long.

When was still activily using methamphetamine I tried to get prescribed amphetamines, but now I have 7 weeks off I'd hate to go on them. I have a feeling all it would do it reawaken that need I have for meth which thankfully has died down a small bit. I really hate the feeling of craving, but I think that if my brain got a small dose of amp it'd just go into overdrive. Fuck that.

Ocean - thanks so much hun! Thanks for the support, it helps =D I know what you mean about the other drugs...I do feel like I'm just trying to justify it to myself on a technicality...ah I'm still confused, I don't know what I'll do.

lestahb - Yeah I have a feeling that that's what I'm trying to do - just componsate for the meth with something else...damn it drives me crazy sometimes :|
How are you going?

wingnutlives - week 5 for me was sooo hard, and I've spoken to a couple of other people who've said the exact same thing. For me, the first two weeks were torture, the next two weeks were MUCH easier, then week 5 it all hit me again, cravings ramped up to the roof - it was really difficult. I have one friend who has relapsed on week 5 about three times now.
For me the cravings have slowly started to die down again at the start of week 8, but I have to admit the last two weeks have been real difficult for me, not to mention this far away from it you really start to get some distance from the negative effects of it and start to forget them...
Stay strong though, you're doing so well <3

jspun - how have you been? Managed to get through this tough time...?
 
foots - you know it is so damn true what you say about forgetting the negative effects. i think that is the reason i went to AA for so long. it helped me remember all the shit when i would see someone who was just hours off the stuff, foot tapping, sweating, eyes rolling, words flying out. it helped me remember just how messed up i was.
i just remember this one day, i was trying to make invitations for my brothers wedding, and i thought to myself i'll just smoke a bowl, and then i will get to work. i got so distracted with the ritual, and the cleaning afterwards, that i needed just a little more, then i'd get to work. 11 hours, i kid you not, i had not started, nor had i moved 5 feet, nor had i done anything that i could remember.

i'm doing ok, i spoke to my doctor about my fears about drug seeking, and he says he thinks the meds are right for me, and that he will keep a close eye on me. i haven't taken any out of order nor have i wanted to. and today i was complimented at work.
but unfortunately, since i decided i am not going to go to AA/NA anymore, I've been dropped by a few friends. i'm totally with drug wench here, i think if you have 18 years clean, and drink one day, you still have that 18 years and everything you learned. but with AA, you lose everything. i'm not really with that. and since drinking isn't really a big deal to me, i'd like to have a drink here and there, without being told to start over.
and there is my rant of the day.
 
Hey C-init. You make some good points. The idea behind MMT is to stabalize someone strung out on a short acting opiate onto methadone or another opiate with a suitably long halflife. Part of the rationale behind this is that at a stable dose there are less fluctuations in plasma levels and that breaks the sick/high cycle. I was on it for 6 years before tapering in feb 08'and I think its a great drug. My daily dose just made me normal- and also gave me a slight energy boost. Now, stimulants are a different class of drug so the outcomes would be different. However, with any kind of maintainance program you tend to see a sharp reduction in property crimes in areas were they are set up- harm reduction for whole community. Also, my theory is that the being in withdrawl, ritaual of getting drug, profound relief, makes the addiction more entrenched. The swiss heroin Rx program is a great example- of those who have no intention of quiting there is on average a significant reduction in dose. I think more peer reviewed, non propaganda influenced research needs to be conducted. Anyway, the british conducted a multicenter study administering oral amphetamines to IV amphetamine addicts and got excellent outcomes (something like half the IV drug users stoped using speed IV.) Also in 2003 a study with amphetamine replacement and meth abusers was conducted in Oz. I mentioned this in my "evolution of the harm reduction model in switzerland" thread- wasn't too much interest in this thread, harm reduction doesn't seem to be as popular a topic as one would think on BL I've found. And there are probably too many links listed I'll admit, not easy reading. I also document the Swiss interest in cocaine Rx although I think a national program has yet to materialize. I took wellbutrin after my meth run almost 11 months ago- fucking worthless (for me). There was a long acting ATS whose name esapes me that could be a good candidate for replacement therapy. I think it was used for ADHD and obesity or both but went into disuse. I'll post if I remember the name

FT- I'm better now. Craving alittle bit but not out of my mind. Thanks for asking and for your support!

lestahb- Nice to hear your doing good. About NA/AA- I go extensively and that is what saved me from relapsing. The friends that would drop you for not going to NA/AA aren't friends more like pathetic cultists. If you don't want to go to the meetings is one thing. But please don't let your decision to pursue recreational drug use and alcohol keep you away. My suggestion would be to go there and be honest with people about how you want to live your life. Some of thoe bastards need to learn open mindedness and tolerance. The victory involves how we treat ourselves and others. The victory in clean time isn't the time itself but the ability that it allows us to help others. Overuse is bad in that we hurt ourselves and it gets in the way of helping others not that it makes us uncool, unhip, or evil, or cerremonially unclean. Too many people in the program think this way- this for me is more motivation to stay clean- initiate some change even on a small scale. Also Lesthab, when I went on the 2 week run last year it fell during my daughter's 1 year birthday, and I had to leave during the birthday to smoke shards. My wife reminded me of that tonight. But if I stay clean I'll get to be there totally for her 2 year birthday in a few weeks.%)
 
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Just a note of motivation and <3 to those of you who are still struggling. I don't talk about it often because it's a bit painful, but I had a run with the stuff in the past. I went cold turkey in May 2008 and I have been abstinent since.

One thing that may have helped me was going on a course of Wellbutrin for my depression. A Google search will yield some research that this may assist methamphetamine addicts in managing cravings and withdrawal symptoms while lifting mood and keeping motivation up, two things that people who are newly clean from meth often miss about the drug. It may represent a viable alternative to prescribed amphetamines to people who would like to be free of all illicits - it's not a drug of abuse.
 
yo fuck taking adderal the night before a final exam to study, I took about 200mg of adderal (10x 20mgs)(not at once, spaced between 36 hours or 2 breakfast's lol) and I havn't been able to sleep since, I'm on day 3, maybe 3 hours of sleep? I'm starting to feel delirous, I think my roomate is sneaking around my room looking for my adderal stash. I'm starting to see black flashes in my perferal vision. My dick won't get hard, I'm peeing every 5 minutes, and my mouth is dry as fuck! (and I dip tobbaco so I barley produce a spit, and have to down a gulp of water per spit.)

Ok so I missused my medicine for my final exam. It kept me up the entire night, I studied maybe 20 hours straight with teleports between the bathroom and sink.

I havn't masterbated in days!!!!!!!

I'm scared to stop taking it, I've been taking it twice a day (normally) and it's still wanting to keep me up.

Any suggestions on how to come down naturally? without the use of sleep medicines. Thanks,
-drew
and yea dont take adderal the night before ur final exam, :)
 
I've been absent from TDS for awhile now. It seems I go through stages with the shards. One day I'll be neutral it - the next it has me all over again. My entire house smells like meth from continual smoking in it. Some say it has no distinct smell; but I can smell it from a mile away. It is a sweet chemical-like smell.

Do I want to get off? I am unsure to the answer. I do, yet I am afraid too. My entire life is about meth. I don't have a job. All my friends are meth addicts. Everything is about meth. EVERYTHING. To all of you who's entire life is NOT yet consumed by it and it's not all you are surrounded by - having normal friends & normal jobs - then get out ASAP. Don't make the same mistake I did. I don't even know a life without it. When I attempt to abstain I feel like a different person. Little to no friends. My whole identity is meth.

I know it's killing me. If I stayed off long enough I'd find a new life - new friends - job. But I can't seem to break free. This law-breaking hectic life.. It feels fun. I become easily bored when I change it up to become a normal citizen. I live for the thrills I guess.
There's nothing glamorous about it, don't get me wrong. Meeting people who could easily whip out a gun and off me any second. It scares me but it's thrilling at the same time.

I know the meth has done irreversible damage to my body & it makes me unbelievably depressed. I'm definitely past the "everything will revert back to normal" stage. That's what happens when you lie to yourself for as long as I have. I have a horrendous STM (short-term memory) and LTM. I can barely remember anything anymore. In person I may seem 100% normal & sane, but my thoughts & emotions are all over the place.

I am just at a loss of what to do anymore.
 
I brought up the idea of amphetamine replacement therapy (ART) because there is evidence in the literature that its been tried with some success and I wanted to share that info because it seems counterintuitive if you've had any experience being a tweeker and I wanted to hear what people thought. Can't say much about the quality of research study/ experimental design but only that these studies found their way in peer-reviewed journals. I absolutely would not advocate someone going out and trying do it yourself ART because the success of a program like this is probably predicated on structure and access to ancillary services.

Mariposa- thanks for the encouragement. Its nice to hear that Wellbutrin worked for you. Its a nice med with a pretty acceptable side effect profile relative to other antidepressants including SSRIs. I had high hopes for this drug at the end of my meth run but unfortunately didn't get great results personally. Wonder if combining a drug that increases synaptic availability of 5-HT like an SSRI or trying a drug that has both catecholamine reuptake blocking and SERT inhibiting properties might be a better strategy? Whats interesting in my case is that I've been clean for almost 11 months. Problem is I have a history of panic disorder and although I never got a panic attack while taking Wellbutrin I would get this feeling of fear and depersonalization that were similar to the prodromal symptoms of a panic attack that I would get on it. Now it turns out that excercise, especially surfing has been the antidepressant/anxiolytic that works for me. I know that it isn't for everyone, but 12 step meetings have kept me clean even after a close almost relapse last week. Honest about what was going on and lots of people reached out- didn't realize that so many people had my back until I was really in trouble.

D, I smoked meth to study for my physiology final in college. Huge mistake, I kept having panic attacks when the prof would walk by, I was having chest pain when we got to the cardiac physiology part of the exam with dizziness.

I havn't masterbated in days!!!!!!!
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When I was on MMT, I think I hadn't masterbated for a couple of years!!!!!!!

Claire22
It is a sweet chemical-like smell.
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Kinda like when yiayia burns the moussaka 8o

Do I want to get off? I am unsure to the answer. I do, yet I am afraid too. My entire life is about meth. I don't have a job. All my friends are meth addicts. Everything is about meth. EVERYTHING. To all of you who's entire life is NOT yet consumed by it and it's not all you are surrounded by - having normal friends & normal jobs - then get out ASAP. Don't make the same mistake I did. I don't even know a life without it. When I attempt to abstain I feel like a different person. Little to no friends. My whole identity is meth.
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Atleast your honest about your situation and motivation.

I am just at a loss of what to do anymore.
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Going to 12 step meetings is what helped me out. I went loaded for a while before getting clean. I was honest with people, what i was using, how I felt, my plans to get clean or get my using under control. Finally I stoped all drugs- including alcohol, heroin, methadone maintenance, high doses of xanax and klonopin, meth too. The coolest thing is I didn't need rehab- saved a shit load of money. Came close to using last week but I've made some good friends that helped me through it. Today I can honestly say that I have a life worth living and this is without my whole identity being NA rather my identity and life is becoming balanced. Good luck with whatever approach ends up working for you!!!

With memory, cognitive abilities, mentation, ect... Its impossible to know how much will come back but I can guarantee that if you stop using meth you wont get any worse. From reading your posts you sound like your possessed of such formidable intellect that your brain could probably use some selective pruining- your too smart for your own good. ;)In all seriousness I think you'll be surprised how much comes back- just hang in there and be patient.
 
I haven't used for two days and it's seriously taking every ounce of energy to log in and write this shit right now...

I can't stay awake for more than 20 mins... my body is so exhausted it physically hurts... I'm pretty sure I'm going to OD from Excedrin from thse headaches

I hate methamphetamine but this is hopeless
 
I haven't used for two days and it's seriously taking every ounce of energy to log in and write this shit right now...
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Right fuckin on! Two days is a long time. Hang in there, it would probably piss me off to hear this if I was kickin tweek but if you don't break down and use then this 'ill be the last time you have to feel this way. Your in the City, yea. Hit up a midnight mtg if your fiending. Use to be one every night in the Marina District when I lived up there. ;)
 
I can't stay awake for more than 20 mins... my body is so exhausted it physically hurts...
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If you cant stay awake...Get some sleep and when youwake up tommorow you'll have 3 days clean.:)

Look at it on the bright sign- if you were kickin heroin instead of meth you wouldn't be able to sleep for the next couple of days- and during that time you'd get to experience a physical and mental hell beyond comprehension in all its glory and excruciating detail:!

You can do it, hang in there!
 
Mariposa is correct!!!
Wellbutrin will help many people with amphetamine addiction, I had great hopes for it but could not handle the side effects I experienced (rage, extreme anger, dizziness, headaches, appetite reduction, nausea, paranoia). I have to stick with my D-amphetamine stim maintainance.
It's better then me smoking/banging crank :/
 
OK, nervous to post...but 4 days sober.
made it through the day 2 skin crawling and wanting to rip my hair out.
Made it through the forced sober, when it didn't happen.
I screamed, I yelled, I cried... the only reason I pushed on was for that.
Maybe this is a good time to say screw this, I'm out.
 
Right on Pill Thrill. That's awesome. The emotions are tough, and I gotta tell you, listen to your body, if you are tired, sleep, take vitamins, eat, and with meth withdrawals, sleep some more. I just kept telling myself, okay I want to use, but I won't tonight, and if I still do after I wake up in the morning I can, and when I woke up, I never did. Just keep going day by day. You can do it.
 
Hell fuckin yea Pill Thrill!!! 4 Days- yor the shit.%)%)%) Take Lesh's suggestion- he has some great advice. I would throw meetings in the mix too- they helped me immensely with the cravings- only thing that did for me- even if you have to force yourself to leave the house.

Gorgoroth. Thats interesting you mentioned d-amp maintenance. :)How is it working for you? Are you able to stay on a stable dose? How high is it? Does it help with the craving. Ultimately, how have you benefited?
 
I guess it helps it hasn't been doing it long, But man was I into it.
I find after I get past the 2 days its easier. Plus my friend also said he and I both can't afford it. So many it will be a lil easier to say off that crap.
 
jspun said:
Wonder how effective a tool would be adderall or dexedrine in managing meth addicts within the framework of harm reduction analogous to MMT and heroin?
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I take 60 mg a day of dexamphetamine perscribed for Meth maintainance, along with depression, anxiety (d-amph is an anxiolytic for me), ADHD..
It's VERY effective for me, I usually run out of my script anywhere from about 3 to 7 days early, but, it keeps cravings completely at bay.
Dexedrine is my methadone.
@ jspun aswell. Overall, It has been very effective.
I have tried Methylphenidate, In the form of concerta but it did nothing but make everything worse. I tried strattera and Wellbutrin but both gave me vicious side effects which methamphetamine didn't even cause. I tried Adderal which kind of worked, but made me really anxious and caused alot of anxiety/stomach problems. So I settled with dexedrine. I fluxuate (sp = P) between 40-60 milligrams a day, but I have discussed with my doctor and he thought it wise to keep me at 60. I usually can stay at this dose, but some days I'll take up to 100-120 milligrams of dexedrine in moments of weakness.
Very occasionally I won't take it at all in a 24 hour period. My doctor says I could perhaps be on dexedrine for decades as it's VERY therapeutic for me. I still get the tweaked/spun feeling somewhat even from 60 milligrams, and I can perform day to day activities. I do not take them any other way then orally. I take 20 milligrams of XR (spansule) and 10 mg of IR in the morning. And I usually take 2 more spansules around 3-4 pm. the two extra IRS I take when I feel I need them.
I hope doctors realize the potential of stimulant maintainance, perhaps it will not work for everybody but it certainly has worked for me.
My problem with it at first was that I REALLY missed the rush of IV Methamphetamine, or sometimes when I would smoke methamphetamine instead. But I have learned to get over that and I have been clean minus a few relapses since I believe last January. I would not advise stimulant maintainance with Dexedrine in a person who only has a minor habit, as Dexedrine is highly addictive, perhaps the drug using community as a whole underrates it's dependence potential.
But I don't have to score off a street anymore, it is very inexpensive as my insurance takes care of the vast majority of the cost, and my amphetamine is ALWAYS clean and pure.

That's my two cents and experience with it :)

~ Alex.
 
I'm so upset with myself, i'm week away from rehab, and i was doing good clean of meth for 2 months. Then I run into a old friend and was offered a small chunk for free. Its strong stuff really upset i did it. I just got so happy when i was offered it and ran home snorted a few lines.

I dunno about anyone else but i get a surge of energy in my head when meth is around and i cant stop myself.

It was my fault for saying yes, i was not forced. mad at myself.
 
^^ Have you made plans to make sure you don't keep on getting on? I know when I relapse I think fuck it, might as well get more - plus I forget how fucking much I like it, and also, after relapsing once you prob wont get the negative effects straight away. Of course you know they come though, and quicker and quicker each time you relapse.

I do know what you feel bout not being able to stop yourself when it's around, I go silly. Even now, I haven't relapsed on meth but I took some mephedrone a day ago and it's reminded my brain of something, I feel like, I dunno, just going crazy, I want to fuck the consequences and let loose...

Edit - it's good you're mad at yourself though. That's the part of you that will control you, and stop you from getting more, if you let it.
 
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