Coolio
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2004
- Messages
- 6,946
I think I usually take the same dose, 250mg, over and over. Sometimes I'll boost >300mg at once in the middle of a binge.
-
N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
mephedrone long term negative effects progress reports
- Thread starter Boojum
- Start date
I think I usually take the same dose, 250mg, over and over. Sometimes I'll boost >300mg at once in the middle of a binge.
nolys
Bluelight Crew
i would normally sniff 150mg or so, then another 200, then the rest of the bag.... so 150,200,650... roughly...
and refering to long term progress reports... im starting to get slightly paranoid, not the "everybodys out to get me" paranoid but i feel like im not safe sometimes which is not like me AT ALL. Prior to using mephedrone, ive never been properly paranoid for as long as i can remember... im not 100% sure that its the meow but i think its more than likely
and refering to long term progress reports... im starting to get slightly paranoid, not the "everybodys out to get me" paranoid but i feel like im not safe sometimes which is not like me AT ALL. Prior to using mephedrone, ive never been properly paranoid for as long as i can remember... im not 100% sure that its the meow but i think its more than likely
pofacedhoe
Bluelight Crew
probably the last time i had it half a gram over three nights in tiny (25mg or less) snorted doses every so often. yes it can send you psychotic (i have bipolar). feindy and paranoid beyond belief.
most stim's seem to send me a little crazy yet i love them, and downers dont seem to satisfy me at all
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
nolys
Bluelight Crew
probably the last time i had it half a gram over three nights in tiny (25mg or less) snorted doses every so often. yes it can send you psychotic (i have bipolar). feindy and paranoid beyond belief.
most stim's seem to send me a little crazy yet i love them, and downers dont seem to satisfy me at all
25mg does something to you? :S
pofacedhoe
Bluelight Crew
it was like a line of coke
I was quite unsure if to post this here on in "how toxic is meph" thread, decided for this hoping I chose right.
I'd basically like to share my experience, and comment on a few hypotesis that have been made over time in different threads, please bear with me.
I used meph 3 times, first time it was crystally stuff from a super reputable vendor, insufflated 100mg, best high with an incredible rush, yet not the strongest, side effects were some gurning, dry mouth, everything as expected from the kind of substance, and next day mouth nevralgia that lasted couple of days (likely I was clenching all night).
Second time it was fluffy stuff from another vendor and was after 2 months; this was the strongest high but not the best, with no rush but a building up high which culprit was a moment I suddenly got covered by sweat from head to toe and felt outrageously high. I'm sure if it wasn't for the unbeatable sense of wellbeing and euphoria I'd had freaked out. Side effects were a super gurning to the point I couldn't finish even one sentence without chewing my jaws in the middle, dry mouth like never before, breathlessness. Amounts were 100mg insufflated, 150mg bombed, 30mg insufflated. Oddly enough after the first line the bomb didn't have any effect. after I got home at early morning my BP was quite normal like 140/70 but HR was 136. I got some light gurning and dry mouth the following day as well, and fatigue and breathlessness for up to a week.
Third time was crystally stuff but from again a different vendor, and a month after the second experience. Amounts were 100mg, then other 100mg, then 30mg all insufflated and well spaced. The high was nice but the lightest, gently rising; the gurning was stronger than the first but much less than the second and so the dry mouth, so still quite in a normal range. after the second line I noticed some palpitations, like I did strongly feel my heart pounding, even if it wasn't racing. No big after effects in the following days, but this weird heart "awareness" started showing up many times, in particular while tripping on a blotter which resulted in a bad trip
So when I got home from vacations and having this thing for a week long I went to a cardiologist to get checked. He's been very accurate, measured everything, made an echography of my heart, checked chambers, valves, etc. It was all damn right. I also have to add that everytime I used to get this palpitations I checked my values and both BP and HR were perfectly normal.
Also I noticed there were some particular times where the issue was more likely to show up like after lunch and when going to bed or waking up in the morning, and that for two times it was triggered and lasted few days after using some nasal decongestant (one based on ephedrine and the other on tramazoline). I also noticed that caffeine didn't result in anything, but didn't feel like to make experiments with other stronger stimulants cause I think that understanding is a good thing but trying to recover is better.
I went under a one month cycle with body building arginine on november (last meph intake has been in august) with no real improvements, and I'm undergoing a month with another pharmaceutic arginine supplement now that resulted in a very noticeable improvement: even tho these events were very slowly getting rarer month by month, I now am palpitantion free since I started and somehow feel my heart is "healtier". I know this is not scientific stuff, but I can't explain it any better.
Now I've been reading of many hypotesis, the 4-methylephedrine vasocostrictive issues, and recently the dermatomyositis one. I think that while probably both vasocostrictive metabolites and immune issues plays a role, it's more about a receptors upregulation of some sort. I have to add that I have autoimmune disease and got blood tested two weeks after the last experience with nothing out of ordinary concerning the immune system.
This heart issue I had really felt like my heart was hyperexcitable, and was reacting to things (meals, changing of standing/laying positions, small doses of vasocostrictors in the for of nasal decongestants) that usually don't make the difference. If I had to guess I'd point on 5-ht receptors, but I have no chemistry/biology knowledge, so I'm just guessing based on what I read here and on the web. Btw my buddy used my same amounts the same times but didn't experience any heart issue or anything other than than the transitory ones, and since I notice there's a big variance of side effects between different people, I'm led to think that the receptors upregulation hypotesis can work since everyone's receptors respond differently to different substances.
There's one last thought, a little OT but still: At beginning of 2009 people were all raving about how amazing meph is, only few morons who went on week binges reported purple knees, ect. Now There's plenty of people that get problems even with single doses, or a moderate use. I can't help but thinking that like it happens with everything the increased request for meph led to a decrease in quality in order to make more available, in spite of most thinking now the meph is better cause it's cristally, and some unknown impurities could be even more responsible than meph itself for most side effects and long lasting problems. But this is just IMHO.
I'd basically like to share my experience, and comment on a few hypotesis that have been made over time in different threads, please bear with me.
I used meph 3 times, first time it was crystally stuff from a super reputable vendor, insufflated 100mg, best high with an incredible rush, yet not the strongest, side effects were some gurning, dry mouth, everything as expected from the kind of substance, and next day mouth nevralgia that lasted couple of days (likely I was clenching all night).
Second time it was fluffy stuff from another vendor and was after 2 months; this was the strongest high but not the best, with no rush but a building up high which culprit was a moment I suddenly got covered by sweat from head to toe and felt outrageously high. I'm sure if it wasn't for the unbeatable sense of wellbeing and euphoria I'd had freaked out. Side effects were a super gurning to the point I couldn't finish even one sentence without chewing my jaws in the middle, dry mouth like never before, breathlessness. Amounts were 100mg insufflated, 150mg bombed, 30mg insufflated. Oddly enough after the first line the bomb didn't have any effect. after I got home at early morning my BP was quite normal like 140/70 but HR was 136. I got some light gurning and dry mouth the following day as well, and fatigue and breathlessness for up to a week.
Third time was crystally stuff but from again a different vendor, and a month after the second experience. Amounts were 100mg, then other 100mg, then 30mg all insufflated and well spaced. The high was nice but the lightest, gently rising; the gurning was stronger than the first but much less than the second and so the dry mouth, so still quite in a normal range. after the second line I noticed some palpitations, like I did strongly feel my heart pounding, even if it wasn't racing. No big after effects in the following days, but this weird heart "awareness" started showing up many times, in particular while tripping on a blotter which resulted in a bad trip
So when I got home from vacations and having this thing for a week long I went to a cardiologist to get checked. He's been very accurate, measured everything, made an echography of my heart, checked chambers, valves, etc. It was all damn right. I also have to add that everytime I used to get this palpitations I checked my values and both BP and HR were perfectly normal.
Also I noticed there were some particular times where the issue was more likely to show up like after lunch and when going to bed or waking up in the morning, and that for two times it was triggered and lasted few days after using some nasal decongestant (one based on ephedrine and the other on tramazoline). I also noticed that caffeine didn't result in anything, but didn't feel like to make experiments with other stronger stimulants cause I think that understanding is a good thing but trying to recover is better.
I went under a one month cycle with body building arginine on november (last meph intake has been in august) with no real improvements, and I'm undergoing a month with another pharmaceutic arginine supplement now that resulted in a very noticeable improvement: even tho these events were very slowly getting rarer month by month, I now am palpitantion free since I started and somehow feel my heart is "healtier". I know this is not scientific stuff, but I can't explain it any better.
Now I've been reading of many hypotesis, the 4-methylephedrine vasocostrictive issues, and recently the dermatomyositis one. I think that while probably both vasocostrictive metabolites and immune issues plays a role, it's more about a receptors upregulation of some sort. I have to add that I have autoimmune disease and got blood tested two weeks after the last experience with nothing out of ordinary concerning the immune system.
This heart issue I had really felt like my heart was hyperexcitable, and was reacting to things (meals, changing of standing/laying positions, small doses of vasocostrictors in the for of nasal decongestants) that usually don't make the difference. If I had to guess I'd point on 5-ht receptors, but I have no chemistry/biology knowledge, so I'm just guessing based on what I read here and on the web. Btw my buddy used my same amounts the same times but didn't experience any heart issue or anything other than than the transitory ones, and since I notice there's a big variance of side effects between different people, I'm led to think that the receptors upregulation hypotesis can work since everyone's receptors respond differently to different substances.
There's one last thought, a little OT but still: At beginning of 2009 people were all raving about how amazing meph is, only few morons who went on week binges reported purple knees, ect. Now There's plenty of people that get problems even with single doses, or a moderate use. I can't help but thinking that like it happens with everything the increased request for meph led to a decrease in quality in order to make more available, in spite of most thinking now the meph is better cause it's cristally, and some unknown impurities could be even more responsible than meph itself for most side effects and long lasting problems. But this is just IMHO.
vortex30
Bluelighter
I'm going to speculate here. Yes, obviously meph is vasconstrictive in itself and will cause some redness, blue, purple, whatever, low blood flow. BUT ADDITIONALLY, let's look at pseudoephedrine (everyone looks at ephedrine, would meph not be metabolized into pseudoephedrine as well?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine#Adverse_effects
Do you guys think that many reports of severe vasoconstriction may actually be something like this? Especially in the people reporting it after a single dose, I think it may be more their sensitivity to pseudoephedrine, than to mephedrone itself.
Not that this makes it safer at all, but just saying, it seems the metabolites, and not mephedrone itself, are really responsible for most of the side-effects we're seeing. Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine possess no serotonergic activity, am I right? And Mephedrone has an extremely short duration/half-life before being metabolized, so I hypothesize, that if para-methyl ephedrine is not serotonergic at all, then mephedrone's 5ht-2b agonism, MAY not be as brutal as some people predict? So long as sessions aren't going days long, and/or many times a week, it really may not be enough to cause any significant agonism.
I'm in no way well-educated on this I know there's mistakes and leaps and I can't prove none of this. But you crazy amazing ADD users, does any of this that I'm saying hold any water at all?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine#Adverse_effects
Do you guys think that many reports of severe vasoconstriction may actually be something like this? Especially in the people reporting it after a single dose, I think it may be more their sensitivity to pseudoephedrine, than to mephedrone itself.
Not that this makes it safer at all, but just saying, it seems the metabolites, and not mephedrone itself, are really responsible for most of the side-effects we're seeing. Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine possess no serotonergic activity, am I right? And Mephedrone has an extremely short duration/half-life before being metabolized, so I hypothesize, that if para-methyl ephedrine is not serotonergic at all, then mephedrone's 5ht-2b agonism, MAY not be as brutal as some people predict? So long as sessions aren't going days long, and/or many times a week, it really may not be enough to cause any significant agonism.
I'm in no way well-educated on this I know there's mistakes and leaps and I can't prove none of this. But you crazy amazing ADD users, does any of this that I'm saying hold any water at all?
^ we know it metabolizes in man to paramethylephedrine and that it is likely that the metabolites are a mixture of optical isomers (there is little data on whether the metabolism is selective), so expect to find paramethylpseudoephedrine is found as well as paramethylephedrine.
the other metabolites are the various isomers of paramethylnorephedrine (PPA) where the methyl on the nitrogen is lost. the metabolism will not generate plain ephedrine or pseudoephedrine (without the methyl)
there is little evidence of 5-ht2b agonism by either mephedrone or its metabolites at present.
The adrenergic agonism could account for most of the issues.
on the side issue of impurities:
Some commercial methedrone appears to contain ring brominated impurities, some material also contains novocaine or similar local anaesthetic -caine which is a major concern.
There is unfortunately few people willing to analyze the stuff, people do not want to be associated with purchasing mephedrone from commercial vendors, especially as the substance will be scheduled in June or July and and it is likely that the police will most likely seize the vendor transaction records as an easy way to find people to target.
the other metabolites are the various isomers of paramethylnorephedrine (PPA) where the methyl on the nitrogen is lost. the metabolism will not generate plain ephedrine or pseudoephedrine (without the methyl)
there is little evidence of 5-ht2b agonism by either mephedrone or its metabolites at present.
The adrenergic agonism could account for most of the issues.
on the side issue of impurities:
Some commercial methedrone appears to contain ring brominated impurities, some material also contains novocaine or similar local anaesthetic -caine which is a major concern.
There is unfortunately few people willing to analyze the stuff, people do not want to be associated with purchasing mephedrone from commercial vendors, especially as the substance will be scheduled in June or July and and it is likely that the police will most likely seize the vendor transaction records as an easy way to find people to target.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Good.
Then maybe people will stick to doing safer things like snorting coke or smoking meth.
Then maybe people will stick to doing safer things like snorting coke or smoking meth.
Fourth_Drive
Bluelighter
Hi, new to Bluelight (have been lurking for a couple of weeks) and have a question. Hope I've found the right thread for this.
I discovered mephedrone a month or so ago, have taken it either orally or rectally on 6 or 7 different occasions, typically at 125mg dose. Have never redosed or binged. Was thrilled when I first found it - not enormously experienced with drugs due to difficulty of supply due to location / lifestyle. But having found Bluelight and read up on it, I've become aware of all the issues with Mephedrone.
One in particular that I've experienced is vasoconstriction - no blue joints or anything (!) but have noticed cold hands / feet when taking it.
Another drug (if you can call it that) that I often use is Iso-Butyl Nitrite (Amyl, Poppers, Rush) which I use as a sex aid with my girlfriend and for wanking - fun for orgasms. It's a vasodilator. Any thoughts on whether this could be used to "treat" the effects of vasoconstriction in the short term in someone who has taken Mephedrone and is experiencing the severe vasoconstriction being talked about here? Would there be bad interactions, or would the blood-pressure dropping effects of Amyl offset the high blood pressure of Mephedrone?
I discovered mephedrone a month or so ago, have taken it either orally or rectally on 6 or 7 different occasions, typically at 125mg dose. Have never redosed or binged. Was thrilled when I first found it - not enormously experienced with drugs due to difficulty of supply due to location / lifestyle. But having found Bluelight and read up on it, I've become aware of all the issues with Mephedrone.
One in particular that I've experienced is vasoconstriction - no blue joints or anything (!) but have noticed cold hands / feet when taking it.
Another drug (if you can call it that) that I often use is Iso-Butyl Nitrite (Amyl, Poppers, Rush) which I use as a sex aid with my girlfriend and for wanking - fun for orgasms. It's a vasodilator. Any thoughts on whether this could be used to "treat" the effects of vasoconstriction in the short term in someone who has taken Mephedrone and is experiencing the severe vasoconstriction being talked about here? Would there be bad interactions, or would the blood-pressure dropping effects of Amyl offset the high blood pressure of Mephedrone?
growit&smokeit
Bluelighter
Just heard someone I know of has been to the doctor and has discovered his BP is really high and he has damaged his kidneys. By the sound of it he has been caning it, but still. Coke would be a hell of a lot safer. I wouldn't touch this shit with a barge pole.
hamhurricane
Bluelighter
would i be correct in assuming that 4-Br-MCAT ("Brephedrone") is going to be horrendously neurotoxic? when i first heard about Brephedrone and Clephedrone that was when i really knew things were getting into dangerous territory, forget PMA analogs, 4-Br-MCAT has got to be one of the most dangerous RCs of all time.
also where are you getting this info on impurities, is it publicly available?
is there any precedent for targeting personal users in the US or UK, im aware of OWT, but those PEAs were already controlled under UK law - this is different.
hamhurricane
Bluelighter
vektor said they were ring brominated, is a-Br-4-Me-bk-PEA even active?
dread
Bluelighter
It would not be a PEA, what they're talking about is unreacted alpha-bromo-4-methylpropiophenone, ie. mephedrone with a bromine in place of the methylamine, not mephedrone with a bromine and an amine.
I don't know the details of mephedrone synthesis, but IIRC the non-ring-methylated version (a-bromopropiophenone) can be used to make methcathinone. So if mephedrone is similarily made from the 4-methyl version, it would be reasonable to assume that unreacted paramethyl-alphabromo-propiophenone would be in the product as an impurity after a sloppy synth.
I don't think it would be psychoactive, but very probably toxic.
hamhurricane
Bluelighter
ah thanks for the clarification i recall alpha brominated precursers being used to make certain psychedelic PEAs (i can look for the ref if that sounds off)
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Given that the cathinone series has tended to be less serotonergic than their corresponding phenethylamine counterparts, we might not necessarily expect the same specific neurotoxicities that we see with 4-Br-amp or 4-Cl-amp. On the other hand, at equistimulating doses, methcathinone appears to exert neurotoxicity similar to methamphetamine, so who knows (vektor 2009). I sure as hell wouldn't ingest 'brephedrone' or the like sans a wealth of studies demonstrating a lack of toxicity.
ebola
the Scottish police used the records from that certain vendor to pay people visits. though there was little they could do because mephedrone is still not explicitly scheduled, once it is scheduled they can have much more options.
impurity information was a private communication, from initial work it doesn't seem to be the alphabromo propiophenone rather it seems to be brominated on the ring. the complete information will be published in due course.