uumpaloompa
Bluelighter
malfunkshun, i thought i read in another forum you tried poppy tea before.
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frizzantik
Bluelight Crew
Re: Mad hungarian...
Umm.. i find myself high when i drink poppy tea.. perhaps you got bunk poppies but a sip of tea usually gets me higher than a couple vicodins. I find it odd you say pods won't give you the same effect as opiates considering they contain opiates. Just because they're not concentrated doesn't mean you can't drink a whole bunch and get hella high
rachamim18 said:
Umm.. i find myself high when i drink poppy tea.. perhaps you got bunk poppies but a sip of tea usually gets me higher than a couple vicodins. I find it odd you say pods won't give you the same effect as opiates considering they contain opiates. Just because they're not concentrated doesn't mean you can't drink a whole bunch and get hella high
rachamim18
Bluelighter
what?
I never said that they do not offer an opiate high...rather that they do not offer a substantial effect. As to your getting a better effect than from a "couple of Vicodin", that statement says it all. Vicodin is not exactly a strong substance. Any "high" is subjective and in the end all that matters is that you feel that it does the job. If you reread my post you will see that poppy tea is often given [in small doses] to infants to counteract colic,to counter diahrreah, and as a pain reliever - especially post circumcision. As to having weak "poppies"...Somniferum is one of only 2 varieties that produce opium, and it is the only one with enough alkaloidal content to make it a worthwhile endeavour. Of course the differing strains of Somniferum have different percentages of the differing alkaloids but in the end it is irrelevant...Somniferum is Somniferum.
You can get a nice effect if you drink enough tea but you still will not get more of an effect than you would get from 100 milligrams of highly adulterated heroin hcl.
I never said that they do not offer an opiate high...rather that they do not offer a substantial effect. As to your getting a better effect than from a "couple of Vicodin", that statement says it all. Vicodin is not exactly a strong substance. Any "high" is subjective and in the end all that matters is that you feel that it does the job. If you reread my post you will see that poppy tea is often given [in small doses] to infants to counteract colic,to counter diahrreah, and as a pain reliever - especially post circumcision. As to having weak "poppies"...Somniferum is one of only 2 varieties that produce opium, and it is the only one with enough alkaloidal content to make it a worthwhile endeavour. Of course the differing strains of Somniferum have different percentages of the differing alkaloids but in the end it is irrelevant...Somniferum is Somniferum.
You can get a nice effect if you drink enough tea but you still will not get more of an effect than you would get from 100 milligrams of highly adulterated heroin hcl.
frizzantik
Bluelight Crew
a sip is more than couple vicodin.. a whole glass gets me a lot higher than i've ever been on any other opiate/iod. you keep saying it's weak compared to opiates, but that makes no sense because the high you get from pods is from opiates, mostly morphine and codiene. You can say it's weak compared to heroin, but saying it is weak compared to opiates is like saying pot is weak compared to cannabionoids.
and are you telling me if i ingested 10 pounds of pods i wouldn't be higher than 100 mg heroin? i somehow doubt that. you obviously arent going to get the same high because they don't contain heroin, but i'm sure you're going to get plenty of morphine from the pods
and are you telling me if i ingested 10 pounds of pods i wouldn't be higher than 100 mg heroin? i somehow doubt that. you obviously arent going to get the same high because they don't contain heroin, but i'm sure you're going to get plenty of morphine from the pods
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Re: what?
You might have worked with really weak pods. I see this thread has turned into a "my dick is bigger than yours" contest. But none the less...these comments deserve scrutiny. Poppy tea (brewed from potent pods) provides me with a high substantially greater than that of insufflated heroin, and even greater than IV oxycodone. As for the amount of morphine in tea...obviously the quantity of morphine present in pods is quite small. But it is the combination of all alkaloids present in the latex of the pods that provide high. Not just the morphine. There is a remarkable synergy between morphine and the other alkaloids that makes the resulting high of opium much more powerful than that of a simple morphine high. Indeed, poppy tea's high is quite different than that of pure morphine...much longer lasting and much more stimulating and "rushy." This is subjective, and of course my opinion...but it is an opinion shared by many others.
Check out some of the threads at www.poppies.org. Many experienced opiate users/abusers will testify to the incredible narcotic/pain killing properties of pods...as well as their terrible addictive properties. Indeed, many there maintain that poppy tea addiction can be as severe...if not greater than that of other opiates...even heroin.
rachamim18 said:
You might have worked with really weak pods. I see this thread has turned into a "my dick is bigger than yours" contest. But none the less...these comments deserve scrutiny. Poppy tea (brewed from potent pods) provides me with a high substantially greater than that of insufflated heroin, and even greater than IV oxycodone. As for the amount of morphine in tea...obviously the quantity of morphine present in pods is quite small. But it is the combination of all alkaloids present in the latex of the pods that provide high. Not just the morphine. There is a remarkable synergy between morphine and the other alkaloids that makes the resulting high of opium much more powerful than that of a simple morphine high. Indeed, poppy tea's high is quite different than that of pure morphine...much longer lasting and much more stimulating and "rushy." This is subjective, and of course my opinion...but it is an opinion shared by many others.
Check out some of the threads at www.poppies.org. Many experienced opiate users/abusers will testify to the incredible narcotic/pain killing properties of pods...as well as their terrible addictive properties. Indeed, many there maintain that poppy tea addiction can be as severe...if not greater than that of other opiates...even heroin.
SomethingClever
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 7
You can get just as high from drinking poppy tea as you can from taking any other opiate. The only difference is, you can't shoot it, but I doubt that would make any difference in withdrawals.
And as far as I can tell, the only things that make a withdrawal better or worse are 1) tolerance and 2) half-life of your opiate of choice. Poppy tea seems to have (subjectively) an extremely long half-life, thus withdrawals from it are a bitch. I know plenty of people that would rather go through a heroin withdrawal than a poppy tea (or methadone, LAAM) withdrawal.
Wasn't it Burroughs that said "It's not the intensity of withdrawals that usually causes the junkie to relapse, but the duration." Something to that effect anyway.
And as far as I can tell, the only things that make a withdrawal better or worse are 1) tolerance and 2) half-life of your opiate of choice. Poppy tea seems to have (subjectively) an extremely long half-life, thus withdrawals from it are a bitch. I know plenty of people that would rather go through a heroin withdrawal than a poppy tea (or methadone, LAAM) withdrawal.
Wasn't it Burroughs that said "It's not the intensity of withdrawals that usually causes the junkie to relapse, but the duration." Something to that effect anyway.
rachamim18
Bluelighter
if wishes were fishes...
Zzz...If that contention were true people would save the time and effort and just brew tea instead of lancing the pod,waiting 10 hours,harvesting it,reducing it...not to mention the synthesizing of the various preperations...If you think that tea does the job my hat is off to you but I assure you that it is not stronger than pure morphine [not to mention heroin].
Frizz:If you drank 10 lbs of pod tea you would be long dead so the argument is inconsequential.
Zzz...If that contention were true people would save the time and effort and just brew tea instead of lancing the pod,waiting 10 hours,harvesting it,reducing it...not to mention the synthesizing of the various preperations...If you think that tea does the job my hat is off to you but I assure you that it is not stronger than pure morphine [not to mention heroin].
Frizz:If you drank 10 lbs of pod tea you would be long dead so the argument is inconsequential.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Oral vs parenteral
The only reason diamorphine (heroin) even if adulterated, would give a stronger effect is because of the route of adinistration. The tea contains morphine as the main active alkaloid, so if you get enough pods so that the total dose ingested was 100mg of morphine, it would give the same effect as 50mg of diamorphine (pure, unadulterated) taken by the same route.
A fair bit of morphine/diamorphine is removed by 1st pass metabolism, so comparing oral morphine with IV or smoked heroin isn't a fair comparison.
The reason they score the pods and collect the dried latex is purely so they don't have to process a large volume of plant material, but drinking pod tea will give the same effect as eating opium or swallowing a morphine sulphate pill, as long as the overall amount of morphine is the same in each case
The only reason diamorphine (heroin) even if adulterated, would give a stronger effect is because of the route of adinistration. The tea contains morphine as the main active alkaloid, so if you get enough pods so that the total dose ingested was 100mg of morphine, it would give the same effect as 50mg of diamorphine (pure, unadulterated) taken by the same route.
A fair bit of morphine/diamorphine is removed by 1st pass metabolism, so comparing oral morphine with IV or smoked heroin isn't a fair comparison.
The reason they score the pods and collect the dried latex is purely so they don't have to process a large volume of plant material, but drinking pod tea will give the same effect as eating opium or swallowing a morphine sulphate pill, as long as the overall amount of morphine is the same in each case
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Re: if wishes were fishes...
Zzz...this argument is like trying to talk to a rock (or a Kerry supporter
). I suppose you are right, and the hundreds of testomonies from poppy tea users testifying to the intense nod obtained from tea...and the possible resulting addiction are incorrect. All of these people must be lying..including myself. I don't know how all the times I brewed some potent tea...I got a high that surpassed my insufflated heroin experiments...or my handful of IV oxycodone experiences. And I don't know why I think that pure morphine is nearly worthless (orally) as compared to poppy tea. I guess I was on some silly mission to start myths about the weak brew you can obtain from the poppy pod.
rachamim18 said:
Zzz...this argument is like trying to talk to a rock (or a Kerry supporter
). I suppose you are right, and the hundreds of testomonies from poppy tea users testifying to the intense nod obtained from tea...and the possible resulting addiction are incorrect. All of these people must be lying..including myself. I don't know how all the times I brewed some potent tea...I got a high that surpassed my insufflated heroin experiments...or my handful of IV oxycodone experiences. And I don't know why I think that pure morphine is nearly worthless (orally) as compared to poppy tea. I guess I was on some silly mission to start myths about the weak brew you can obtain from the poppy pod.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Re: Oral vs parenteral
Actually the amount of morphine present (according to statistics from a PDF I have on morphine levels in pod tea) in a cup 'o brew is usually quite small...at least compared to how much morphine sulfate it takes to achieve a substantial effect when consumed orally. It is the presence of other alkaloids (which have a synergesic effects with morphine) that contribute to the high. And again, the high is quite different.
fastandbulbous said:
Actually the amount of morphine present (according to statistics from a PDF I have on morphine levels in pod tea) in a cup 'o brew is usually quite small...at least compared to how much morphine sulfate it takes to achieve a substantial effect when consumed orally. It is the presence of other alkaloids (which have a synergesic effects with morphine) that contribute to the high. And again, the high is quite different.
rachamim18
Bluelighter
Bring in the big dogs...
Actually I am right but I will let someone else do my arguing...not only do the various sites dealing with it back me up [Erowid,Lycaeum,etc,] but there are published studies on it...
"Poppy Tea Dependance" Strang, J., Unnithan, S. Maudsley Hospital, Denmark Hill,London, U.K. as published in the British Journal of Psychiatry in December, 1993. [volume # 163 pp. 813-14]
or
"Poppy Tea Drinking in East Anglia" London,et al. Drug Dependancy Unit, Cambridge, U.K. as published in the British Journal of Addiction in October, 1990 [volume and pages not offered but I am sure that I can dig them up].
Actually I am right but I will let someone else do my arguing...not only do the various sites dealing with it back me up [Erowid,Lycaeum,etc,] but there are published studies on it...
"Poppy Tea Dependance" Strang, J., Unnithan, S. Maudsley Hospital, Denmark Hill,London, U.K. as published in the British Journal of Psychiatry in December, 1993. [volume # 163 pp. 813-14]
or
"Poppy Tea Drinking in East Anglia" London,et al. Drug Dependancy Unit, Cambridge, U.K. as published in the British Journal of Addiction in October, 1990 [volume and pages not offered but I am sure that I can dig them up].
rachamim18
Bluelighter
Fast...
fast: It sounds good but is not grounded in reality...I still owe you an argument over the p.m. but I will get to both in a bit.
fast: It sounds good but is not grounded in reality...I still owe you an argument over the p.m. but I will get to both in a bit.
rachamim18
Bluelighter
Scoring pods etc...
Actually the reason that pods are scored is because it is the opium that contains the alkaloids, not the pods. You can extract the alkaloids by chemical process but that it is a rather recent innovation [Hungarian Method] and one that requires specialised machinery and training.
Actually the reason that pods are scored is because it is the opium that contains the alkaloids, not the pods. You can extract the alkaloids by chemical process but that it is a rather recent innovation [Hungarian Method] and one that requires specialised machinery and training.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Re: Bring in the big dogs...
What reality is this? What about the reality of the trip reports on erowid, lycaeum that maintain poppy tea is quite powerful...even when compared to pure opiates. What about the reality of the hundreds of posts at the PORG (many from opiate addicts who have been addicted to heroin and other narcotics) that maintain that poppy tea is quite powerful...just as powerful as other opiates? What about the reality in which experienced heroin users I personally know have tried poppy tea...comparing it with heroin (and in one case of an IV heroin user...comparing it to heroin minus the intense rush)? What about my reality, in which I find poppy tea far superior to any opiates I have tried? To claim poppy tea is mild in effect is to ignore all of these statements and reports. So if you are not ignoring all of these testomonials, are you maintaining that we are all lying (or are somehow mistaken) about our experiences then?
There are a few contrary reports at erowid I know of...but these folks could have easily made tea from weak pods. Indeed, many times I have recieved pods that provided little high...akin to perhaps a few codeine. But working with potent pods (and it took a number of different orders from various vendors until I found a supplier who consistantly provides the "good ones") is a different story all together.
So again rachamim18, why are there literally hundreds of folks on the web who have posted testomonies that would completely contridict your claim that poppy pods do not provide a "substantial effect"? Why did folks who drank poppy tea is my presence describe effects that do not equate to no substantial effect? Why would I maintain that poppy pods beat any other opiate I have tried, hands down? Why would all of these people make these claims (including me) if it were not so? Is it some great poppy pod conspiricy?
rachamim18 said:
What reality is this? What about the reality of the trip reports on erowid, lycaeum that maintain poppy tea is quite powerful...even when compared to pure opiates. What about the reality of the hundreds of posts at the PORG (many from opiate addicts who have been addicted to heroin and other narcotics) that maintain that poppy tea is quite powerful...just as powerful as other opiates? What about the reality in which experienced heroin users I personally know have tried poppy tea...comparing it with heroin (and in one case of an IV heroin user...comparing it to heroin minus the intense rush)? What about my reality, in which I find poppy tea far superior to any opiates I have tried? To claim poppy tea is mild in effect is to ignore all of these statements and reports. So if you are not ignoring all of these testomonials, are you maintaining that we are all lying (or are somehow mistaken) about our experiences then?
There are a few contrary reports at erowid I know of...but these folks could have easily made tea from weak pods. Indeed, many times I have recieved pods that provided little high...akin to perhaps a few codeine. But working with potent pods (and it took a number of different orders from various vendors until I found a supplier who consistantly provides the "good ones") is a different story all together.
So again rachamim18, why are there literally hundreds of folks on the web who have posted testomonies that would completely contridict your claim that poppy pods do not provide a "substantial effect"? Why did folks who drank poppy tea is my presence describe effects that do not equate to no substantial effect? Why would I maintain that poppy pods beat any other opiate I have tried, hands down? Why would all of these people make these claims (including me) if it were not so? Is it some great poppy pod conspiricy?
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rachamim18
Bluelighter
Learn to read...
There is no "cospiricy"[sic] but rather people such as yourself who rely on subjective reporting to qualify their versions of "irrefutable truth." Forget your Erowid trip reports, try sticking to the wealth of scientific information offered on the site, perhaps a good place to start would be in the vaults...say Feb. 2003. I suppose that scientific studies do not qualify as "proof" in your mind...not to mention that every study I have seen on the subject says the same thing. That combined with my experience as someone that has had poppy tea literally since birth tend to convince me of my position. Show me something other than your subjective opinion and we can discuss it ,otherwise I am not biting...
There is no "cospiricy"[sic] but rather people such as yourself who rely on subjective reporting to qualify their versions of "irrefutable truth." Forget your Erowid trip reports, try sticking to the wealth of scientific information offered on the site, perhaps a good place to start would be in the vaults...say Feb. 2003. I suppose that scientific studies do not qualify as "proof" in your mind...not to mention that every study I have seen on the subject says the same thing. That combined with my experience as someone that has had poppy tea literally since birth tend to convince me of my position. Show me something other than your subjective opinion and we can discuss it ,otherwise I am not biting...
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Perhaps you regard poppy tea to be so mild because you've been having it since you were a child? Maybe you simply got used to it? Just a thought. I don't deny that you seem to have a lot of experience with Opiates. But perhaps it is this very experience, ie. your high tolerance, makes poppy tea seem so weak to you?
Objectivity is not always reliable, IMO, especially when it comes to drugs. If you want objectivity, then I go back to my original argument that Morphine is not that much weaker that its prodrug Heroin.
I personaly think there is much more validity in the myriad of experiences reported than there is in "objective" scientific "truth." I have tried Poppy tea, and found it rather powerful - but, I will not present that as truth since I have not tried any of the stronger Opioids to compare it to. However, by itself, it seems powerful to me.
---
I also want to mention that I am disgusted by the group of posters who say things along the lines of "your withdrawal pains are nothing - just try heroin withdrawal!". This, IMO, is nothing but cruel ignorance. Its like telling someone getting their arm amputated that their pain is nothing compared to running a chainsaw through your head. *rolls eyes*
Objectivity is not always reliable, IMO, especially when it comes to drugs. If you want objectivity, then I go back to my original argument that Morphine is not that much weaker that its prodrug Heroin.
I personaly think there is much more validity in the myriad of experiences reported than there is in "objective" scientific "truth." I have tried Poppy tea, and found it rather powerful - but, I will not present that as truth since I have not tried any of the stronger Opioids to compare it to. However, by itself, it seems powerful to me.
---
I also want to mention that I am disgusted by the group of posters who say things along the lines of "your withdrawal pains are nothing - just try heroin withdrawal!". This, IMO, is nothing but cruel ignorance. Its like telling someone getting their arm amputated that their pain is nothing compared to running a chainsaw through your head. *rolls eyes*
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Actually the reason that pods are scored is because it is the opium that contains the alkaloids, not the pods.
The opium latex is released from the cells that make up the pod in response to mechanical injury (scoring). The inside of the pod contains seeds, but the walls of the pod contain the cells that produce the opium latex, so the morphine is in the pods; and when they are dried, the alkaloids remain in the walls of the pod, so making pod tea is the same as eating opium.
PS. I got confirmation about the hydrolysis of diamorphine (heroin) in aqueous soln from my wife (she's a toxicologist in the NHS)
MGS, yes some of the other alkaloids in opium do have a physiological effect (eg papervine on smooth muscle). I just got a bit carried away because I was only focusing on the amount of morphine from each source
The opium latex is released from the cells that make up the pod in response to mechanical injury (scoring). The inside of the pod contains seeds, but the walls of the pod contain the cells that produce the opium latex, so the morphine is in the pods; and when they are dried, the alkaloids remain in the walls of the pod, so making pod tea is the same as eating opium.
PS. I got confirmation about the hydrolysis of diamorphine (heroin) in aqueous soln from my wife (she's a toxicologist in the NHS)
MGS, yes some of the other alkaloids in opium do have a physiological effect (eg papervine on smooth muscle). I just got a bit carried away because I was only focusing on the amount of morphine from each source
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rachamim18
Bluelighter
Uh uh...
o.k. ignore the studies...lets try it this way...Fast: It is in a small number of cells first of all and the total percentage wise rarely climbs out of the single digits [in terms of morphine content]. Granted there are at least 4 other psychoactive alkaloids in varying percentages but ALL are less than morphine.The total psychoactive alkaloidal content NEVER comes close to exceeding more than 30% of the total mass so...your contention that consuming pod tea is akin to eating opium is seriously flawed. Fast: I will get back to you on the hydrolisis issue. I certainly respect your wifes credentials but have failed to find anything supporting your position. Perhaps you might ask her for at least one reference so that I might put it to rest. Also,please at least check the studies I have quoted in my previous posts so that you might see what I am getting at.
Jamshyd: You misunderstand or perhaps it is my fault for not elaborating. In any event, poppy tea is only given [very] occaisonally due to its addictive properties [just not addictive as isolated alkaloids].You may in fact drink enough tea to get higher than a 100 mg. dose of heroin. It is just that the tea is substantially weaker than any of its isolated constituients on a milligram to milligram basis. Perhaps if I had included that explanation in one of my earlier posts then much of this back and forth might very well have been avoided.
I disagree that a large amount of subjective experience trumps objective scientific data. First of all subjective experiences are subject to too many variables. Secondly, it would be impossible to qualify how many of these subjects have experienced "strong" opiates/opioids in order to make such a comparison. Third, everyone experiences EVERYTHING differently so there would be no uniform response to any given question.
o.k. ignore the studies...lets try it this way...Fast: It is in a small number of cells first of all and the total percentage wise rarely climbs out of the single digits [in terms of morphine content]. Granted there are at least 4 other psychoactive alkaloids in varying percentages but ALL are less than morphine.The total psychoactive alkaloidal content NEVER comes close to exceeding more than 30% of the total mass so...your contention that consuming pod tea is akin to eating opium is seriously flawed. Fast: I will get back to you on the hydrolisis issue. I certainly respect your wifes credentials but have failed to find anything supporting your position. Perhaps you might ask her for at least one reference so that I might put it to rest. Also,please at least check the studies I have quoted in my previous posts so that you might see what I am getting at.
Jamshyd: You misunderstand or perhaps it is my fault for not elaborating. In any event, poppy tea is only given [very] occaisonally due to its addictive properties [just not addictive as isolated alkaloids].You may in fact drink enough tea to get higher than a 100 mg. dose of heroin. It is just that the tea is substantially weaker than any of its isolated constituients on a milligram to milligram basis. Perhaps if I had included that explanation in one of my earlier posts then much of this back and forth might very well have been avoided.
I disagree that a large amount of subjective experience trumps objective scientific data. First of all subjective experiences are subject to too many variables. Secondly, it would be impossible to qualify how many of these subjects have experienced "strong" opiates/opioids in order to make such a comparison. Third, everyone experiences EVERYTHING differently so there would be no uniform response to any given question.
Dont you think the throngs of Herion addicts going through withdrawls rather than Pod Tea addicts can be explained by a few things:
H is easier to score on the street and to prepare. H is smaller and concentrated so a small amount gets one off.
How many street pushers have you seen selling Pod Tea? Its usually something someone orders and does in there own private house with pretty good knowledge of drugs.
Opiates are opiates, period. The Morphine in the tea will get you as much as a Nod as Herion insuffalated. Granted IV H is much more powerful and gives that rush many people crave, which is why H may be a more "addictive" drug then Pod Tea. Its the rig, the needle the anticipation of the rush then nod.
Pod Tea tastes horrible, IMO, takes a bit of time to prepare and basiclly the onset is slow. You reach the exact same nod as H in the end, just in a different way.
So if you are arguing H is a worse WD because of the things like the rush, the rig and the needle anticipation, you are right. But, if you arguing that the compands in Tea produce a much less difficult physical withdrawl you are dead wrong. H might be more psychologically addiciting, but Pod Tea is just as pyshically addiciting. Sorry, but reading through the poppies.org people going through WD's and reading those going through H withdrawl experince very similar experinces. Mentally, H might be harder to break from, I'll give you that.
H is easier to score on the street and to prepare. H is smaller and concentrated so a small amount gets one off.
How many street pushers have you seen selling Pod Tea? Its usually something someone orders and does in there own private house with pretty good knowledge of drugs.
Opiates are opiates, period. The Morphine in the tea will get you as much as a Nod as Herion insuffalated. Granted IV H is much more powerful and gives that rush many people crave, which is why H may be a more "addictive" drug then Pod Tea. Its the rig, the needle the anticipation of the rush then nod.
Pod Tea tastes horrible, IMO, takes a bit of time to prepare and basiclly the onset is slow. You reach the exact same nod as H in the end, just in a different way.
So if you are arguing H is a worse WD because of the things like the rush, the rig and the needle anticipation, you are right. But, if you arguing that the compands in Tea produce a much less difficult physical withdrawl you are dead wrong. H might be more psychologically addiciting, but Pod Tea is just as pyshically addiciting. Sorry, but reading through the poppies.org people going through WD's and reading those going through H withdrawl experince very similar experinces. Mentally, H might be harder to break from, I'll give you that.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Makes no difference
It is in a small number of cells first of all and the total percentage wise rarely climbs out of the single digits [in terms of morphine content]. Granted there are at least 4 other psychoactive alkaloids in varying percentages but ALL are less than morphine.The total psychoactive alkaloidal content NEVER comes close to exceeding more than 30% of the total mass so...your contention that consuming pod tea is akin to eating opium is seriously flawed
How is it floored? The cells responsible for the production of the latex when injured also contain the alkaloids that are present in the dried latex (opium).
If you were to cut the heads from the poppies, remove the seeds (so you just have the cell walls), then extract the alkaloids, you'd have the same overall make up in terms of % of each alkaloid present as you do in opium. What would be different would be the weight of alkaloids found per gram of pod wall compared with the weight of alkaloids found per gram of opium (say 0.5% total alkaloids for pod wall compared with 10% for opium - aprox figures to illustrate a point).
Thing is, if you were to compare the weight of one pod (minus seeds etc) with the amount of opium that one pod can produce, you would find that a pod that weighed 2grams would only produce 100mg of opium
So the total alkaloids in a pod = 2g x 0.5% = 10mg
total alkaloids in opium from one pod = 100mg x 10% = 10mg
You can do this practically as well if you boil up a load of pods to extract the alkaloids, then continue until the water has evaporated - you're left with opium (that's how I've done it in the past, as you don't really want to be returning to pods you've scored the previous day in case someone has noticed the scoring, and the law are waiting for you to return)
The other reason that opium poppy farmers use the scoring method is that it's still possible to collect viable seeds from the pods after the opium has been collected. This isn't possible if you cut the heads off to extract it.
What I'm saying is that pods and opium contain alkaloids in the same ratios relative to morphine. What is different is the overall amount of morphine etc per gram of material, but as a single pod will only produce a fraction of its weight of opium, the effect of consuming the two will be identical, if you take into account the amount of alkaloids present in the original material (ie for a given weight of opium you take 20 x the weight of pod - using above figures - 10 percent divided by 0.5 percent)
As for the hydrolysis of diamorphine in solution, I'll ask her if she can get a data sheet that comes with diamorph injections, but the info is also in sources such as the British Pharmacopea or Martindales Extra Pharmacopea (not in the US Pharmacopea as diamorphine has no approved medical use in the US).
It is in a small number of cells first of all and the total percentage wise rarely climbs out of the single digits [in terms of morphine content]. Granted there are at least 4 other psychoactive alkaloids in varying percentages but ALL are less than morphine.The total psychoactive alkaloidal content NEVER comes close to exceeding more than 30% of the total mass so...your contention that consuming pod tea is akin to eating opium is seriously flawed
How is it floored? The cells responsible for the production of the latex when injured also contain the alkaloids that are present in the dried latex (opium).
If you were to cut the heads from the poppies, remove the seeds (so you just have the cell walls), then extract the alkaloids, you'd have the same overall make up in terms of % of each alkaloid present as you do in opium. What would be different would be the weight of alkaloids found per gram of pod wall compared with the weight of alkaloids found per gram of opium (say 0.5% total alkaloids for pod wall compared with 10% for opium - aprox figures to illustrate a point).
Thing is, if you were to compare the weight of one pod (minus seeds etc) with the amount of opium that one pod can produce, you would find that a pod that weighed 2grams would only produce 100mg of opium
So the total alkaloids in a pod = 2g x 0.5% = 10mg
total alkaloids in opium from one pod = 100mg x 10% = 10mg
You can do this practically as well if you boil up a load of pods to extract the alkaloids, then continue until the water has evaporated - you're left with opium (that's how I've done it in the past, as you don't really want to be returning to pods you've scored the previous day in case someone has noticed the scoring, and the law are waiting for you to return)
The other reason that opium poppy farmers use the scoring method is that it's still possible to collect viable seeds from the pods after the opium has been collected. This isn't possible if you cut the heads off to extract it.
What I'm saying is that pods and opium contain alkaloids in the same ratios relative to morphine. What is different is the overall amount of morphine etc per gram of material, but as a single pod will only produce a fraction of its weight of opium, the effect of consuming the two will be identical, if you take into account the amount of alkaloids present in the original material (ie for a given weight of opium you take 20 x the weight of pod - using above figures - 10 percent divided by 0.5 percent)
As for the hydrolysis of diamorphine in solution, I'll ask her if she can get a data sheet that comes with diamorph injections, but the info is also in sources such as the British Pharmacopea or Martindales Extra Pharmacopea (not in the US Pharmacopea as diamorphine has no approved medical use in the US).
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