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[MEGA] God

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/preaching mode on

but god does do miracles!! all the time, all around us, everywhere! unless you're a 4 year old resistola in brazil, addicted to glue, unable to speak properly, and destined to be hunted down by the cops and murdered! or an iraqi child who's been hit by shrapnel from illegal cluster bombs. in that case god is not happy with you at all!

you must have sinned in a previous life.

after all, if you worshipped 'our' god, and loved Jesus, then and not an 'idol', then your pain would also subside! you'd be surrounded by happenings that are certainly pre-ordained and in no sense coincidental!

/mode off
 
^Pathetic dude. Seuss, you are way above that, i thought. you are stooping to my level now. ;) Seriously though, quite being an idiot. :p How can you knock something you have never experienced? For being so "opene minded" you arent very open at all. :\
 
I am a firm believer in the fact that God speaks to each of us in 3 different ways.

We have the bible, which is his word and his instructions for us. (also the bible should inspire us, teach us, and comfort us among various other things.)

Then we have the holy spirit. The holy spirit is what most people call the conscience...But this is God trying to help us onto our path.

last but not least, if we cannot and do not learn what God wants us to, he teaches us with circumstance. The saying is true "God only gives us what we can handle", but for most of us we cannot handle the situations given without his help.

I don't believe that god lets us suffer until we bow down to him. That's not his nature. He wants us to choose him, not think we have to surrender to him in order to be happy and painless.

But, God does give us crappy circumstances where we have to overcome by learning what he wants us to learn. For each and every person in this world, it's different. But this is how it works.
 
yeh seuss .. I've noticed you're being a bit of an idiot on other threads as well. Chill matey! :)

Btw: did I see a pic of you and ur cute boyfriend in SL&R recently? cute couple! =D
 
I think pain has it's purpose for survival is functionably dependant on it as well as it's polar-opposite.. pleasure.....

for without either.. there is neither.
 
wanderer21 said:
I don't believe that god lets us suffer until we bow down to him. That's not his nature. He wants us to choose him, not think we have to surrender to him in order to be happy and painless.
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I guess Surrender is too a strong a word for you.

Our mind, intelligence & ego drags us through the material word constantly searching for sense pleasure. But we have forgetten that the source of this pleasure is the Supreme Lord.
We need to surrender our mind, intelligence & ego to the service of God. This is to prove to him that we are serious about going back to the spiritual world. Otherwise we can just stay in this world of suffering forever, if we want to.
False ego is identification with the physical body, true ego is realisation of yourself as a servant to the Supreme Personality.

Why is this world full of suffering? birth, death, old age & disease..
Anyone subjected to the material world is also affected by the three modes of material nature: goodness, passion & ignorance. Any action in any one of these modes has strings attached, KARMA, the reaction to your actions. This is the material world.

'You shall reap what you sow'
 
^Pathetic dude. Seuss, you are way above that, i thought. you are stooping to my level now. Seriously though, quite being an idiot. How can you knock something you have never experienced? For being so "opene minded" you arent very open at all.
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fuckin hell - if you can't tell when i'm tongue in cheek and when i'm not, i should give up completely :) that's what the preachy-mode thang was all about.

i don't know what you mean by 'something you've never experienced' though.

what do you mean - christianity, or miracles?

if you mean christianity, i'm afraid i have to disagree. not only have a devoted (no pun intended) a not inconsiderable amount of my life to the study of christianity (you haven't met me on christianforums yet, have you?) and its evolution (want to chat about the evolution of medieval heresy? the reformation? the contemporary social relevance of the book of kells?), but i have also experienced most flavours of christianity on a first-hand basis; from practitioners, teachers, and believers. i've just got back from a holiday with my in-common-law family; a minister and two church elders...

if you're talking about miracles, i'm afraid i haven't witnessed any. have you?

i have seen an awful lot of suffering, though. first and secondhand...

dimmo,

yeh seuss .. I've noticed you're being a bit of an idiot on other threads as well. Chill matey!
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i shall try. i am all too guilty of allowing emotional responses to override sensible posting intentions. please note that my response in this thread was firmly & absolutely intended as non-serious. but hey - it's all good. this is a learning experience for all of us. if i have been somewhat tetchy recently, it could be linked to the personal difficulties i'm going through; if you need to know, i'll pm you.

Btw: did I see a pic of you and ur cute boyfriend in SL&R recently? cute couple!
Click to expand...

it seems not, as i don't have a boyfriend. i do have a girlfriend, however :)
 
I dont think you can just think about disattaching yourself in the world and reaching nirvana instantly, theres stuff to work through. Pain and suffering is a natural part of life, and can be largly overcome by having a supportive community and by being emotionally strong which comes by learning how to deal with lifes issues. Most people who dont learn how to deal with lifes issues most likely end up in jail or medicated for years. Sociaty is at least partly responsible IMHO in teaching people who to deal with lifes issues, emotions, disapointments etc. Pick up any pop culture material and you wont find anything about it.
 
dr seuss said:


want to chat about the evolution of medieval heresy? the reformation? the contemporary social relevance of the book of kells

if you're talking about miracles, i'm afraid i haven't witnessed any. have you?

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firstly, I would talk to you about the evolution of heresy, the reformation and the change in religion in UK over that period from that angle - that is my interest subject. (more the history of the country and its effects on the people andthe dramatic change in religion according to the whims of those in charge)

and I have witnessed miracles - everywhere I look thre is another. Maybe some people (in general) and just too closed off to seeing things like that.
 
that is my interest subject.
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tis also one of mine.

i'm fascinated in particular by the flexibility of belief systems when confronted with arising issues, or dramatic social changes; by the willingness of spiritual leaders to divert themselves from basic tenets of their faith in pursuit of noumenal aims/goals; and by the effective utilisation of repression (be it through state, aristocratic, economic or social means) as a means of enforcing orthodoxy.

as for this:

and I have witnessed miracles - everywhere I look thre is another. Maybe some people (in general) and just too closed off to seeing things like that.
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i've seen wonderful things happen. i think there's a difference between being 'too closed off to seeing' things which you would denote 'miracles' and merely ascribing them to something other than divine intervention.

i guess it depends on your definition of a miracle; i've not seen any classic biblical water-into-wine or walking-on-water incidents, whereas i have seen remarkable examples of survival against the odds... personally i'd find it easier to accept a classical dualist interpretation: i.e. that the noumenal world is indebted to an evil god for its creation.

lots of great things happen around the world every day. but there's also an incredible amount of pain & suffering, and for every committed religious person who works to help others, there's a pope who blathers about condoms' inability to prevent the transmission of HIV, or a church lobby group insisting that the US withdraw funding from clinics that perform abortions on AIDS infected mothers in africa, or people rabbiting on about god's 'punishment' of homosexuals, etc. etc. etc. etc.
 
dr seuss said:
tis also one of mine.

i'm fascinated in particular by the flexibility of belief systems when confronted with arising issues, or dramatic social changes; by the willingness of spiritual leaders to divert themselves from basic tenets of their faith in pursuit of noumenal aims/goals; and by the effective utilisation of repression (be it through state, aristocratic, economic or social means) as a means of enforcing orthodoxy.
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Ah yes, well in many cases (depending on the period we are talking, but in the case of the reformation) it was do or be punished. In a feudal system, all followed their lords, who followed the king, who followed the church, who followed the pope, who followed God. And then suddenly it changes, the King bypasses the church and pope altogether and forms his own church and his own direct link to God and says you will follow me because I am king and head of the new church of england. Take the oath to swear against the old religion, the old ways, the catholic church and all that it was all wrong, and swear allegiance to me or go to war. What are you going to do then? the lords had to change because he was still the king, holds all the favour and they want to be in favour too - so they swap, they make their tenants swap or get turved out, the poor land owners, they cannot openly practice christian rites as its heresy, cannot say heretical anything - there were spies and tattle-tales everywhere and many many many were hanged as heretics. In those times people were controlled by those above them as explained above - not many were able to live as their own people to make their own decisions - they were kept under a strict hand and so it is fascinating that as one or a few high up change direction, a ripple effect occurs, as compared to todays times, if some up there change direction, we all argue about it and take a vote.
 
god doesnts do any miracles for anyone because its simply a question of humans ruling humans, can it be done...

clearly the answer is no and thats is why there is so much pain.because human governments are like children leading children, they dont know anymore than us but still choose to tell us what to do and not to do as if they had a more defined conscience then the rest of us.

so if you want your pain alleviated you wont find the answers here on earth because the next guy doesnt know much more than yourself.
 
dr seuss said:
i guess it depends on your definition of a miracle; i've not seen any classic biblical water-into-wine or walking-on-water incidents, whereas i have seen remarkable examples of survival against the odds...
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Probably the same amount of people have been killed in 'miracle incidents' as those who have survived against the odds.
This is just my speculation though.

It does not matter too much if we suffer in this life, because God knows that our souls are eternal and we will never die. All your suffering should be considered a character reform ;)


Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 2

TEXT 11

sri-bhagavan uvaca
asocyan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
nanusocanti panditah

SYNONYMS

sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; asocyan--that which is not worthy of lamentation; anvasocah--you are lamenting; tvam--you; prajna-vadan--learned talks; ca--also; bhasase--speaking; gata--lost; asun--life; agata--not past; asun--life; ca--also; na--never; anusocanti--lament; panditah--the learned.

TRANSLATION

The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead.

PURPORT

The Lord at once took the position of the teacher and chastised the student, calling him, indirectly, a fool. The Lord said, "You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned--one who knows what is body and what is soul--does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition." As it will be explained in later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is even more important than religious formularies. And, because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man. As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. The body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body.
 
What do you people WANT!?!??!!

It is like that joke I remember as a kid:

A man goes out in his boat fishing and while out in the open seas came under a storm. He prays to God and asks that he be kept safe and his boat is buffeted and capsizes and he is stuck on top onthe hull holding on for dear life. A boat passes by and they say, come aboard! get safe! The man replies, No, My faith is with God, He will provide. and the boat moves off.
He clings on and continues to pray.
A helicopter passes overhead and they go to rescue the man - grab my hand! I'll pull you up! you'll perish there!!
No, thank you, I am under the wing of the Lord, He will keep me safe! and the helicopter leaves and a final HUGE wave washes over the man and he is washed away and drowns.

Up in Heaven, he talks with God and says, I was in trouble in that water, I prayed to you, why did you not save me?
God says, well I sent you a ship and a helicopter, what more do you want!??!
 
pomplemous, there is an extent to which pain and suffering are relative. i don't know what life experiences you may or may not have, but dark times can affect us all - even for different reasons. and i think i knew i would never believe in a higher being - let alone a benevolent one - when i experienced real tragedy.
 
Ok, I accept that - but what I am saying is that I can understand how some might believe and then tragedy strikes and some might be unable to continue believing - I understand that and it is a sad thing, but you cannot take that away from someone, that right to believe or not, to lose belief or gain it - that is a person's personal faith.

We have all had times in our lives when we maybe felt were the blackest in our lives, and I respect that and people's need to reach out, or to lose faith - i cannot say how I would react - I have always had a faith through my black times, but maybe my bad times werent all that bad afterall - I dont know. I dont believe my faith to be stronger than anyone else's - again, that is a question of personal stuff - but one way or the other, it has never left me, throughout

but that was not the question I was answering - I was answering the question of why doesnt God do more to alleviate pain.

what do you want him to do? for SOME, no matter what He does, it goes unseen beause people are lookng for miracles, and yet they dont even know what kind of miracles they want to see. well I am asking - what is it you want to see?
an end to famine? world peace? well of course we all want that, but He put man on this world to run it, and so maybe every one of us can help out a little, why cant we all put money in the charity boxes to help relieve starvation? why cant we all give clothes to charities to help clothe those who shiver with cold? why cant people do more?

MAYBE IF PEOPLE DID MORE TO HELP ALLEVIATE THE SUFFERING AND PAIN, THEN THAT WOULD BE THE MIRACLE YOU'RE ALL WAITING FOR!!!!

oops - caps lock incident - sorry!
 
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