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[MEGA] God

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slyvan wanderer said:

Natural evil is what is at issue (tornados, hurricanes, earthquake).
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What makes those things evil?
The same laws that cause them brought us into existence.
IMO the complete removal of such phenomena would be a greater evil because it would make natural law distorted, opening up the potential for much worse.
 
my theory is that our suffering is caused by our mistaken belief that we are our physical bodies and our ignorance of our true nature as pure consciousness or spirit. suffering is god's way of forcing us to turn away from the unreal world we create in our minds and back to our true nature as pure being.
 
^^^ Put the vials away, you starting to be delusional.


Originally posted by Void
Ah, why blame God? We create this world, though god created the fundementals we build society, economics, class systems, and the conditions in which starvation and war reigns. Putting aside the need for free will, in this world we not only make decisions that effect others but everyday we see the results of those decisions. Just cause we cant be fucked making a better world, it aint down to God. If you see pain as such a problem then consider what you yourself have done to help solve the problem. Your not powerless.
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That's thing I hate the most about religion. It makes people think they can't solve society's problems. Even though that is society's problem.

Religion has succeeded in making people reliant on something else, other than their own abilities. That is not natural, and not innately human. We are creative problem solvers, that's how we got this far. We can't progress, unless we leave behind the useless ideals, that hold us back.

Either way there is no GOD. Unless you speak in terms of Spinoza.
 
I dont believe in "god" perse but I still think we can find a simple answer...

If the world was full of "good" how would you know that the good was "good" without ever having experienced "bad"

Our whole world is constructed of comparisons...
If you doubt this idea try and describe anything (including yourself) without making reference to something that is not the thing you are trying to describe. You simply cant. Our whole world as we understand it is based on comparing the differences of things and the good/evil notion is no different.

We cannot have good without first defining evil...

Any Taoist literature is good reading regarding this concept, as is Huxleys Brave New World which makes the point that even in a perfect world the grass is always greener...
 
Many animals in the wild can continue living (close) to normally after serios injury.
I saw a doco about these elk like creature but with two long pointed horns on their heads. Like many other species the males butt heads and they saw one that had been speared through the abdomin and had some intestine dangling beneath it. It was acting no different to the healthy others.

My point is that animals have the same senses that we do to survive, except when they get injured, they tend the wound the best they can with the time they have but DO NOT dwell on the injury like we do. Being in the wild there is no time.

I repeat my earlier point:
Pain sensation is the price you pay for thinking about it.
 
Jesus also said ASK and you shall receive...sometimes it is hard to ask God for what you really need...because you may not get what you want and that means CHANGE....which takes effort. and faith that the miracle has happened because you asked...Jesus is always there with open arms into his Holy embrace. Ask for a miracle! Pray with faith and conviction that what you have asked for has already happened. I think that many times people are afraid to ask. It's like do you make yourself vulnerable, humble enough to ask someone else for help? It seems pretty evident here on BL or in society we merge our ideas and opinions and have faith through mostly the majority rules....but what about the little piece of the puzzle that you cannot find through anyones advice or love and sharing. Seek God first and you will know.
We all want our independence and sence of furfillment of spirit in our lives. But just when you think you have obtained all the wisdom and all the knowledge that you may think has brought you to balance...WAMMMMMM something stirs inside your heart knowing that LOVE is all that matters....without it we are empty. If you can find a love that feels more like RELEASE and not Possession...you are very
very fortunate. God doesn't want to place hisself Above us or enable our decisions and manipulate our moves...he wants to BLESS US. but who will ask to be blessed... it may mean responsibility to the divine purpose of life...which is then left to each individual to inact.
I think the prayer of Jabez is quite evident:
In biblical times Names where very important...and you couldn't change your name. Jabez means Pain, and his mother told him she bore him in pain.
So you can imagine the harrasment he may have gotten from his friends and family.
So Jabez CRIED OUT TO GOD:
"Oh, that You would bless me indeed, and enlarge my territory, that Your hand would be with me, and that You would keep me from evil, that I may not cause pain! "So God granted him what he requested (Chronicles 4:9-10)
Peace
 
TECHNICALLY.... According to the Bible, miracles of miraculous nature would have stopped when the last of the first disciples of Christ died, because they were given the power by the Holy Spirit to do the things that would "wow" people to believe that they had God in them. Everyone else has to believe that those guys did perform miracles and follow what Christ said based on that recorded account of those miracles. So, based on that logic, God won't do MIRACLES to alleviate pain.... because there is no need for miracles to prove that God exixts anymore.
However, if you also believe that God gave us Christ as a model of how to live, then you will see that pain is a part of living for God, because Satan (evil force) will always be tryin to get you to follow a different path.
Also, something that I have thought about many times is that WE create all the pain in the world... through pollution, hate, our desire to be instantly satisfied, etc.... Most of the pain we feel is selfinflicted because we do not allow God to rule our life... we let our desires rule us, and then we get hurt. So God gave us solutions... a way of life... a hope of Heaven to relieve us from pain.
Just some thoughts. :)
 
duneonthemoon said:
Why don't you do something to alleviate pain?
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I am passionately reasonable about this post.
ie
it stands to reason and I am passionate about that.

I agree completely.

I can also fairly say I am distinctly unsober and cannot tell you the number of typos I have had to go back and correct.

Alleviate your own pain and the pain of everyone you know & love if you can and those you meet, and if you can smile at a preson on the street and maybe it makes them feel good and maybe they see fit to smile at someone else and it feels good and so it goes on and just for a second, over the course of the whole day, somebdoy smiles and for that second, the world is a better place, for you, and for the world as a whole as somebody out there is smiling..

did I say unsober? I meant *glazed* too. 8( hee - I mean that to show my head is mince now! giggle.

But I still believe that deeply. I dont care what you say.
 
slyvan wanderer: err, sorry pressed edit rather then qutoe and destroyed your post. That hasnt happened in ages. Sorry.

I cant call anything in nature 'evil'. It follows a set pattern that maintains life on this planet. Just because we create global warming that makes natural disasters more extreme and common, its hardly natures fault. I am completely against the mentality of man vs nature which has styles our society and culture, without it we may have actually desgined cities and farming practices that are balanced with the environment they are in.

Us humans on the other hand play a direct role in the patterns our society maintains. Those starving children on the other side of the world are a result of many failed actions. First came colonization which destroyed their culture, leaving them as slaves, then foreign countries came in to plunder their natural resources while leaving them destitute. We live in a one-world economy and just because we chose to style parts of it like a pyramid scheme, well that isnt Gods fault.
 
throwing pearls.............

Why doesn't God do more miracles to alleviate pain?

From 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, regarding Paul's pain:

..."To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

Through our pain, we draw closer to God - after man's defiance in the Garden it was introduced so we wouldn't swell up with too much pride.

I'm not too particularly fond of this btw since I have a very painful physical ailment myself. For years I said "f- you God for letting this happen to me."

Since I accepted Christ, my pain has subsided tremendously.
 
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^^^ Put the vials away, you starting to be delusional.
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were you talking to me? if so could you provide an argument instead of calling me delusional? my argument is simple. in deep sleep you were not aware of your body and there was no suffering. similarly if you take a drug that turns off the higher functions of your brain there is no suffering. yet you don't deny that you were still yourself in deep sleep. the conclusion is obvious, we cause our own suffering by thinking it. we suffer the ills of our phyiscal bodies because of the ego which connects our consciousness to our bodies. if we get rid of the ego and exist as consiousness alone there is no more suffering. i thought this was what buddhism was about (loss of individuality = nirvana). please correct me if i'm wrong.
 
void, alls chill

Nature isn't itself evil, the pain and misery is. In this case evil is defined as something painful and bad with no good resulting.

i thought this was what buddhism was about (loss of individuality = nirvana). please correct me if i'm wrong.

Buddhism is about that. Let go of wants and desires and pain is avoided. It seems like a balance scale to me.

I have a paper to right on evidentialism and its challenge to religion, later.
 
Re: throwing pearls.............

Turbo Monk said:

I'm not too particularly fond of this btw since I have a very painful physical ailment myself. For years I said "f- you God for letting this happen to me."

Since I accepted Christ, my pain has subsided tremendously.
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^ I am happy for this - that you made your peace with God - you have a sore thing - look to Him to help you through it, not blame Him and that goes to everyone.
 
The reason we are suffering is because we are all looking after our OWN self-interests, but we cannot be happy unless we are serving the greater whole.
The arm co-operates with the stomach by bringing food to the mouth, and in this way that arm is also nourished. But if the arm tries to feed itself it will only suffer.

Further reasoning finds that our TRUE nature is spiritual but we are currently experiencing the MATERIAL world, like a fish out of water. This is also the cause of suffering.

God lets us.. nay, God MAKES us suffer in the material world until we realise that we are compeletely dependant on Him for everything and then surrender to Him. We are like a child run away from home, who soon finds that he cannot make it out there on his own and then comes back to his parents (who receive him with open arms).
 
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