B9
Bluelight Crew
I think this thread would be ideally suited to a poll - maybe get a few people to suggest some creative polling options.
Lysergamides [LSD Subthread] Risks & Dangers
- Thread starter Wise420
- Start date
delta_9
Bluelighter
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say ketamine and cannabis are "psychedelics". They definately have psychedelic properties, but pharmacologically, they are not psychedelic.
IMO, only 5-HT2a agonists qualify as "true" psychedelics.
Dissociatives, such as ketamine and salvia, are NMDA antagonists and κ-Opioid agonists, respectively.
And of course as we all know, deliriants are the only drugs that produce real hallucinations.
dread
Bluelighter
I disagree. I've had very real hallucinations from combined 5ht-psychedelics + sleep deprivation.
delta_9
Bluelighter
I suppose ultimately it's subjective, but I like to think that serotonergic psychedelics only cause distortions(or perversions if you will
) of what we're already seeing.Deliriants on the other hand cause me to converse and argue with people who aren't even there. This isn't a "distortion" of what I'm seeing, it's an outright hallucination.
Of course, everyone is different and experiences drugs differently. These are just my thoughts, YMMV of course
dread
Bluelighter
Well that might be true, however a high dose of LSD while sleep deprivated will give you hallucinations which are not really distortions of what you're seeing... they might be distortions of what you're thinking consciously or subconsciously. But you absolutely will see stuff that is not there.
delta_9
Bluelighter
I've never had a high dose Lsd/sleep deprivation experience so I'm going to take your word on this one friend :D
any major dude
Bluelight Crew
agreed, sleep deprivation+any psychedelic, in my experience, is pretty ridiculously intense
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Yup. I'll third that. Sleep deprivation and/or prolonged stims + psyches = complete headfuck. Only time that I find psyches can stray into true hallucination and actual (temporary) insanity territory.
Shakti
Bluelighter
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IMO it's somewhat of a semantic debate whether 5-ht agonists can cause hallucinations or not. They can certainly cause vivid representations of things that don't exist in the material realm. They can propel you out of your body and construct fantastical universes. The difference between this and say tropane alkaloids or other 'deliriants' is that one commonly looses the ability to discern between the material realm (reality as most people call it, but don't count me amongst them) and realms and objects constructed from other sources of input. In other words you can't tell your hallucinations are hallucinations. If we define hallucinations as non-material objects that are indiscernible from material objects, then I would say 5-ht agonists do not cause hallucinations. If we define hallucinations as simply observed non-material objects, then 5-ht agonists can cause them.
delta_9
Bluelighter
But I'm not talking about sleep deprivation/prolonged stim use/high dose lsd(Obviously all of those factors are going to affect the lsd trip). I'm saying that relatively average doses of some deliriants by themselves can cause serious hallucinations. This has never been the case for me with 5-ht2 agonists.
I have to disagree with people who said you never get "true hallucinations" on LSD.
Have you ever tried staring at someone's face while on 2 decent hits?
My friend turned into a lizardman and his tongue stretched out far when he stuck it out to freak me out. Then one time I was staring at the wall and used my imagination to conjure up weird characters that were dancing all over it.
One time I was tripping on 1 hit, not even completely trippy hard and I saw weird shadowy figures run across the lawn at night. Being in the dark definetly will make you see some crazy illusions and hallucinations.
Much of LSD's visuals are up to the beholder to create, focus in, think creatively and you'll see some really cool stuff that is projection from your mind.
Have you ever tried staring at someone's face while on 2 decent hits?
My friend turned into a lizardman and his tongue stretched out far when he stuck it out to freak me out. Then one time I was staring at the wall and used my imagination to conjure up weird characters that were dancing all over it.
One time I was tripping on 1 hit, not even completely trippy hard and I saw weird shadowy figures run across the lawn at night. Being in the dark definetly will make you see some crazy illusions and hallucinations.
Much of LSD's visuals are up to the beholder to create, focus in, think creatively and you'll see some really cool stuff that is projection from your mind.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
^ Sure it wasn't on DOx?
D9: I completely agree that psyches in the common dose range are unlikely to cause true hallucinations (if at all) but that doesn't hold true if you're sleep deprived or have been hitting the stims too hard. It's a different situation but not so uncommon that it's not worth a mention when discussing the possible problems that can occur with LSD or other psyches.
D9: I completely agree that psyches in the common dose range are unlikely to cause true hallucinations (if at all) but that doesn't hold true if you're sleep deprived or have been hitting the stims too hard. It's a different situation but not so uncommon that it's not worth a mention when discussing the possible problems that can occur with LSD or other psyches.
jamaica0535
Bluelight Crew
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yep, no sleep = the mind falling apart.....
I brought that up in my psych class when the teacher asked us why sleeping is important to our wellbeing?
My response "Go long enough and you go insane and kind of start hallucinating"
I find that as long as i can trance out for a few hours and feel like i might have acomplished something i maintain my sanity.... Tranced out on DOM for a few hours because my mind just needed a break, and i was still hours upon hours from comming down....
delta_9
Bluelighter
Yes, these are the "warped" or "distorted" images you are already seeing.
Exactly why I suggested this is all subjective and thus pointlesskillo said:
Yes my friend I do agree it's worthy of mention in this threadShammy said:
Thank you for bringing it up.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
^^ I'll second that too, Jamaica. "Trancing out" is the next best thing to sleep when on a sleep deprived/stimmed binge with psyche involvement. Not possible in every situation though which is why it's better to avoid the situation in the first place if possible. Festivals don't count
jamaica0535
Bluelight Crew
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^^ I'll second that too, Jamaica. "Trancing out" is the next best thing to sleep when on a sleep deprived/stimmed binge with psyche involvement. Not possible in every situation though which is why it's better to avoid the situation in the first place if possible. Festivals don't count
A festival was the only time i really found it neccesary, but when you have had a weekend that has seemed to rival something out of fear and loathing its sometimes neccesary to do just so your not attacked by giant bats.... it always starts in the periphial vision.... fuckin shadow rats....
The thing that makes me wonder is the giant bats were in the beggining of the book, my god how many drugs had they been on before they even made it to vegas, when was the last time they had slept?
I have heard stories of people sitting in 2nd floor windows .38 in hand waiting for the shadow people to come out from behind the trees... as well as all the stim bing stories of the treeples....
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
I've seen people in that situation on crack (and the rest) binges. It involved a spudgun and armed police though. And tiny policemen that lived under his bed. He's lucky to be alive cos waving guns - even plastic toy guns filled with potato pellets - at British armed police usually ends in sudden death 
PepperSocks
Bluelight Crew
Slight derail>
:D
I made a potato cannon as a grade 6 science project. I still have it! :D
You just gave me a great idea for something to play with while I'm tripping.
I've seen people in that situation on crack (and the rest) binges. It involved a spudgun and armed police though. And tiny policemen that lived under his bed. He's lucky to be alive cos waving guns - even plastic toy guns filled with potato pellets - at British armed police usually ends in sudden death
:D
I made a potato cannon as a grade 6 science project. I still have it! :D
You just gave me a great idea for something to play with while I'm tripping.
If you get LSD it is 100% safe there is no dose level that can kill you. Now you have the insane after 7 hits misconstrued. If you eat more then 7 hits of lsd at once you can be considered to be insane for the duration of the trip under the law. That is if each hit is over 200mcg a piece they say that because then you have eaten over 1mg of chemical which is allot. that dose not mean you will be insane after you come down in fact if you get clean lsd when you come down you will be as normal after some sleep as if you have never taken any at all. now me myself have pushed the limits and have some Permanente effects mild tracers and some times the carpet and floor moves like I am in a boat and it is rippling a little but you also have to keep in mind I have eaten over 25 different types of trips mostly Shulgans work some Nichols as well. But that is because I have eaten over 1000 hits of lsd in my life. I am not insane a little off but no where near insane. Last time I tripped lsd I ate over 25 hits in one three day weekend at DEMF and lots of x and doc and god only knows I can’t remember. All I know is I went to the festival with 140 hits of 2ce *snip* It was fun and I do it every year. hope this helps clear up the lsd thing you are only insane if you eat over 1000mcg or 1mg of pure lsd by law for the duration of the trip and no longer then that.
Peace,
Phenyl
Peace,
Phenyl
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delta_9
Bluelighter
That is one of the most rediculous posts I have read in a while.