I'm done

[phactor]

I feel so... SOBER. Not sick neccessarily, just... Sober as fuck. Its a new feeling for me, sober but not sick. Part of me still wants to run, run into the soothing arms of opiates, to retreat and watch the world from behind that comfy blanket, but... Ive done enough of that now. Its time to be sober for a while. Maybe when im 80 and they give me six months to live ill smack it up... Granny copping in the hood. For right now its time to do some other stuff besides be a junkie.

I myself sometimes entertain thoughts about "maybe once I retire", however that is a long way off. Best for me to focus on today. I actually know a few people "in the rooms" that have recently retired that were telling themselves the same thing when they were new clean. Not a single one returned to using though. Why? Because they know that using wouldn't help them and their lives are going so well now that they do not want to throw it away by using.

Who knows where medicine will be, its quite possible that addiction may essentially be eradicated in 1st world countries in the next 50 years. Sounds crazy, but medicine is advancing so fast and addiction is a major focus right now.

Anyways, I can sometimes feel pretty damn raw when I am clean, but I'd rather feel like this then use that is for sure.

 

[BlueSaffron]

I'm not saying for sure I'm going to do heroin when I'm 80 It was more of a passing thought than a plan - just thinking about the fact that it'll always be there if I want it. If I decided to do it at 80 with six months to live, it would be a conscious choice, not an addiction that I fell into. It wouldn't be about doing it thinking it would "help" me - again, it would be a choice, to get to feel that feeling again before I die, knowing that I only have a few months anyway. Anyway, it's years away, so you don't need to try to talk me out of it just yet

I'd rather feel this way than use, too - it's just a new feeling for me. Sometimes it feels like everything's dialed up to 11 - sights, sounds, smells... it's overwhelming sometimes. It could be worse, though, so I'm ok

 

[phactor]

I'm not saying for sure I'm going to do heroin when I'm 80 It was more of a passing thought than a plan - just thinking about the fact that it'll always be there if I want it. If I decided to do it at 80 with six months to live, it would be a conscious choice, not an addiction that I fell into. It wouldn't be about doing it thinking it would "help" me - again, it would be a choice, to get to feel that feeling again before I die, knowing that I only have a few months anyway. Anyway, it's years away, so you don't need to try to talk me out of it just yet

I'd rather feel this way than use, too - it's just a new feeling for me. Sometimes it feels like everything's dialed up to 11 - sights, sounds, smells... it's overwhelming sometimes. It could be worse, though, so I'm ok

hahaa, I wasn't trying to talk you out of it. Like I said, I still consider it from time to time. Obviously, if I think about it, it ultimately seems like a bad idea. But I am an addict so of course I think about it.

Lately, I have been thinking about MDMA. I seem to switch from drug to drug and think to myself "I will never feel that rush, high, nod, feeling again". Its very fleeting, but it still happens. Sometimes I recall a specific time when it felt good (recently it has been MDMA at concerts out West). Then I remember that was when I was like 21 and that magic has been gone for a long damn time.

It really amazes me how cravings change. Mine are very tricky and subtle nowadays.

 

[BlueSaffron]

We're so used to getting pleasure from chemicals... it's very ingrained in our thinking now. I still do it - I've had a drink a couple times in the last week. It's just not that great while in WD though. I've never been a big alcohol girl. But i mean, I'm like "ok I'm done with heroin... but I can have a few drinks at least". And I probably can, because like I said I'm not that big of an alcohol fan, but it's still important that I recognize that I'm still trying to find fundamental happiness in a chemical. I need to keep an eye on that, because I want to be basically sober when I'm done with methadone. No heroin, and nothing else illegal. I'd like to think I could have a vicodin once in a while but realistically I know I'd never be satisfied, and it'd go from one once in a while to three once in a while to three once a week to four a couple times a week and then I'd wake up one day feeling kind of sick and be right back at square one. I think the only thing I can do is have a few drinks occasionally.

But what I wanted to say is I'm trying to find other things to make me happy besides drugs. For me the only thing that really works is love. I'm seeing someone right now, and it's complicated, but I have feelings for him. The only thing that feels as good to me as a good dope high? Seeing him and being with him It's healthier than drugs That, and I'm focusing my energies towards work and moving out from this apartment. Basically I'm turning my whole life upside down. It's hard sometimes, but... if you want to change, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable. I'm willing, because I don't want this life I'm living, I want a totally different one. I'm willing to work hard to get there.

 

[BlueSaffron]

Driving to methadone this am and bam-just started thinking "fuck this. I should just go cop. Once wont hurt. Fuck it, i dont care about recovery, its all bullshit anyway. I just want to do some dope & float away for a while. I really DGAF.

Ive had this feeling before. I let it wash over me and it passes by the time i get to the clinic. What trips me out is how its so out of the blue. I wasnt rven sad, or craving or anything, and all of a sudden Im thinking of how good dope feels, how its got that junkie glamour (please, i know it doesnt really), and how i should cop, put on some Lou Reed, put a spike in my fucking vein, and chill.

Typing it now though, it just sounds lame. Thats not the life i want for myself. And the fun part never lasts, and once the shitty part starts it never ends.

I want to wake up in a warm sunny apartment in Vallejo snuggled up to my man. I want to wake him up so we can make love, then shower & drive to work with the music up. I want to come home & start dinner so when he gets home he's met with a five star meal. I want to eat dinner & flirt with him while he helps me with the dishes, and then i want to go get in bed and fuck again and end the day snuggled in his arms.

And I'm going to get NONE of that if i do heroin.

 

[herbavore]

I think it is great to imagine the life that you want to help you fight those cravings when they just zap you out of the blue. Once you are sober it can still be a great thing to do because the perfect life is never the perfect life and we all have to keep working towards it in one way or another. I find that actually telling myself what I want and then being honest with myself about what I have to do to get there is a constant effort. It's like cleaning your house to perfection--it's not a one time thing--eventually you have to dust again.

You are doing so great, both with your taper and with all the internal work it takes to stick with it. Every single time you resist a craving and talk back to it with your rational mind you are retraining your brain and lessening their hold on you. (())

 

[BlueSaffron]

Thanks herbavore. It helps so much when people tell me I'm doing good - it really does, I appreciate it every single time someone says that. When you're in the middle of it like I am it can feel like you're going nowhere. The anxiety and depression don't help, either. I was feeling pretty down recently and had to mentally shake myself and be like "dude, a few weeks ago you tried to go to 24 mgs and couldn't do it and had to go back up to 26. Now you're on 16. Thats about a 10 mg drop. You did it and you're doing it".

I'm not perfect though. I got drunk the other night and I'm drinking today, and I keep thinking about just doing cold turkey. Right now I'm going down 1 mg every 4 days, and at this rate I won't be off til the end of Sept, and even then its not like I'll be home free. I'll dose my last dose at the end of Sept but things won't be magically better then, I know from last time that no matter what dose you're at, even if its 1mg, you will be sick and won't sleep for a few days. So realistically at least another month after that (beginning of Nov) til I even start to feel ok. It feels overwhelming and impossible and I'm thinking more and more that I just want to jump off now. I don't want to "waste" those three months. I feel like crap already.. what's the difference? Why not just do it now, jump off at 15 (going down 1 mg tomorrow) and just gut it out and get it over with. Or if not at 15 maybe at 10.

My depression is caused by more than just the methadone.. I've got stuff going on in my life, don't want to put it here but I'm under a lot of stress and also in love with a guy that I don't get to see that often. I have to be careful not to think that things will magically be better just because I'm off methadone, but the more I think about it the more I think the right thing to do is to jump off.

I have a bottle of gabapentin with 2 refills, and I have 2 ativan left and my Dr. would probably refill it if I asked. I just feel like I"m just stretching out the misery here. More and more that is my conclusion.

What do you guys think?

eta: its the not getting pleasure out of anything that's killing me. This is actually a little scary, how bad I feel. I know some people will say go to a doctor, and I could, but I know there's a good chance they'll put me on valium or ativan or an antidepressant, and I don't want to do that. It's the same reason I don't take gabapentin when its just sitting in the other room and I know it lifts my mood. Partly its cos I didn't like the spacey, loopy, not myself feeling it gave me, but also because I don't want to rely on a drug. I want to work through this and come out the other side able to be happy naturally. If I get on a drug, prescribed or not, I'm just delaying the inevitable. I'm going to have to go through this sometime, it might as well be now.

 

[P.o.T.u.S]

You are not getting pleasure out of anything because for years u have took one of the most pleasurable substances known to man and still are with the methadone in a way so the "pleasure in life" feeling in my opinion will only come back when your totally off opiates for a few months.your brain is very slowly getting better so its goin to take even longer for your awarness to realize how u react different in situations and are better off.

i cant tell u to go cold turkey or not but long term u have to remember what is best for your RECOVERY which i think is to stay on the taper even tho u want to feel better asap u said u relapsed when u did a cold turkey last time.im not tryin to say your arent wiser and stronger now than u were but thats the evidence u have to work with.just visited your thread after not reading it for a while and i can already tell you are getting better.

The only pleasure in life that i have found as strong as opiates is love.the rush from the excitment when the one u love is comin over or just being with that person is just as strong as opiates im sure u know. so i wish u the best of luck with the gentleman in your life and i can see that he will be the reason to stay clean after your taper which will be over before u know it %)

 

[BlueSaffron]

You are not getting pleasure out of anything because for years u have took one of the most pleasurable substances known to man and still are with the methadone in a way so the "pleasure in life" feeling in my opinion will only come back when your totally off opiates for a few months.your brain is very slowly getting better so its goin to take even longer for your awarness to realize how u react different in situations and are better off.

i cant tell u to go cold turkey or not but long term u have to remember what is best for your RECOVERY which i think is to stay on the taper even tho u want to feel better asap u said u relapsed when u did a cold turkey last time.im not tryin to say your arent wiser and stronger now than u were but thats the evidence u have to work with.just visited your thread after not reading it for a while and i can already tell you are getting better.

The only pleasure in life that i have found as strong as opiates is love.the rush from the excitment when the one u love is comin over or just being with that person is just as strong as opiates im sure u know. so i wish u the best of luck with the gentleman in your life and i can see that he will be the reason to stay clean after your taper which will be over before u know it %)

I know it's because I did opiates for so long, it's just really hard to deal with. I actually went to a movie last night and even though it wasn't that great, my mood did lift somewhat. I know it helps to get out of the house.

I agree with you about love. It's the only thing that feels as good as opiates, and honestly to me it feels better.

Eta: 10:-17, bedtime, thank god. Called my dr today and she said its ok to take ativan with my methadone, & gave me a refill... But now that i have the go ahead i dont want to take it. Dont know wtf is wrong with me, i feel awful but i fobt want to take anything. I do want to sleep though. Hopefully itll come fast.

 

[Azure Cloud]

Eta: 10:-17, bedtime, thank god. Called my dr today and she said its ok to take ativan with my methadone, & gave me a refill... But now that i have the go ahead i dont want to take it. Dont know wtf is wrong with me, i feel awful but i fobt want to take anything. I do want to sleep though. Hopefully itll come fast.

I totally get this. After coming off opiates and amphetamines all pills scare the shit out of me. I don't even want to take a vitamin.

I wonder if, since you are at such a low dose of methadone, whether or not you could jump on suboxone and do a very rapid taper. Fuck Idk, Ime methadone and suboxone are both pretty evil bitches and you are really close to being at the end of your taper anyways. The end of September ain't nothing compared to the length of the happy years you have ahead of yourself.

Hang in there, you are doing outstandingly well!

 

[BlueSaffron]

I totally get this. After coming off opiates and amphetamines all pills scare the shit out of me. I don't even want to take a vitamin.

I wonder if, since you are at such a low dose of methadone, whether or not you could jump on suboxone and do a very rapid taper. Fuck Idk, Ime methadone and suboxone are both pretty evil bitches and you are really close to being at the end of your taper anyways. The end of September ain't nothing compared to the length of the happy years you have ahead of yourself.

Hang in there, you are doing outstandingly well!

It's not that I'm scared to do them though, it's that I just don't want to be in an altered reality while my life goes on without me. I don't want to make a wrong decision about some personal stuff happening in my life, because I was all relaxed on Ativan thinking things are ok when they're really not. That and I know Ativan doesn't give euphoria, it just relaxes you...

I just want to be clearheaded. I do feel that way a lot, but right now I'm still in WD so it's hard to enjoy the clearheaded feeling, because I feel a little antsy and achy from the WD. I'm hoping at some point soon I'll know what it is to feel clearheaded and sober, and happy, or at least content.

Sometimes I still want to run and use. A lot, actually. But I know wanting doesn't mean I have to do it.

I want to feel better so badly sometimes, and this is so fucking hard...

Suboxone isn't an option for me, because of it's stimulant properties - my body can't handle stuff like that. But like you said, I'm close to the end now. One minute it was July and now it's a week into August already and I'm at 14 mg.. by the end of the week I'll be at 13, end of the month I'll be at 10. I'm going to see how I feel... I don't think I'll go to 1. Maybe I'll jump off at 5 or so.

I'm almost there... just need to remember that. Almost. I've gotten through some really awful days where I literally cried off and on all afternoon. Every minute was painful. That kind of depression I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Anyway, using now would just set me back, and I don't want to go through that again... it's miserable. I'm going to keep fighting. There's a better life ahead, and I'm going to get there.

eta: also, it sucks to second guess your past... to sit here and wonder "was xyz really xyz? or did I just think it was because I was loaded on heroin most of the time?". Sometimes I feel like I don't even know what's real. It sucks, but I know the only way I'm going to find out is to stay sober and see.

 

[Azure Cloud]

You are a hardcore warrior. It must be so hellish to constantly be in withdrawals.

I did mmt for a few years. I never was able to get off it unassisted. I did jump from 90mg of methadone to 24mg of suboxone. 2 days of living hell. I could not get off the toilet?at all the first night. My neighbours could hear my screaming and were begging my wife to call an ambulance (of course she did not). I think I ate 10 bars that night. I have zero benzo tolerance but that night they did absolutely nothing for me.

Alright, enough about me. The point being is that I would rather do that endure the long withdrawal required by a proper taper off methadone. Of course it was another 4 years before I stopped taking opiates so my way didn't work that well.

You are doing great! You get thru this and there is nothing you cannot do!???

 

[BlueSaffron]

You are a hardcore warrior. It must be so hellish to constantly be in withdrawals.

Not constantly! I get two whole hours after my dose hits me where I feel good! lol.... thanks, though. It's hard, but I did choose this. I started at 30 and didn't want to go any higher. I could've gone to like 60 so I'd be really comfortable and gone down like 1 mg every two weeks, and I'm sure I would've felt a million times better, but then I would've been stuck on methadone another year at least...A year of waking up, going to the clinic, standing in line with all the other reprobates (not saying I'm not a reprobate myself, but I don't WANT to be one, so I don't want to mill around them.) And if there's too many people in line inside they actually make you wait outside the clinic in a line. In downtown San Francisco. In the middle of morning rush hour traffic. I KNOW people in this city, you know? So I decided to get on the lowest dose I could stand and go down as fast as I could stand. Make your bed, you gotta lie in it

 

[Azure Cloud]

That does make sense.

You have done spectacular so far and you are over half way home....you got this!

 

[BlueSaffron]

Dont know what to do with myself tonight. Dont want to drink, or take an ativan. Need to go to the store & get half n half and keep thinking i could pick up some Ben n Jerrys but i ate dessert already, itd just be a distraction, not cos im hungry. Its too late to go out and im too tired to anyway, i have no energy. Roomate is watching boring tv. Cant go to sleep for a couple more hours. Net is boring. Dont feel like reading. I feel like im in a jail cell with nothing to do.

I hate feeling like this.

Eta... I didnt feel like doing anything... So i didnt. No beer, ativan, ice cream or anything else. Just laid in bed for a bit & now I'm going to sleep.

Although i confess im looking forward to dose tomorrow morning.

Goodnight.

 

[Azure Cloud]

Dont know what to do with myself tonight. Dont want to drink, or take an ativan. Need to go to the store & get half n half and keep thinking i could pick up some Ben n Jerrys but i ate dessert already, itd just be a distraction, not cos im hungry. Its too late to go out and im too tired to anyway, i have no energy. Roomate is watching boring tv. Cant go to sleep for a couple more hours. Net is boring. Dont feel like reading. I feel like im in a jail cell with nothing to do.

I hate feeling like this.

Eta... I didnt feel like doing anything... So i didnt. No beer, ativan, ice cream or anything else. Just laid in bed for a bit & now I'm going to sleep.

Although i confess im looking forward to dose tomorrow morning.

Goodnight.

For me, one of the biggest struggles I'm facing as I embrace sobriety is figuring out constructive ways to spend my time. I find myself bored all the time. So much time spent procuring drugs and using drugs. Also many activities that I enjoyed on drugs just are not fun anymore; sadly I have not picked up my guitar since the last time I swallowed a bunch of opiates and amphetamines together (end of June). Shit, even not doing anything was less boring while fucked up.

I have no advice, just saying that I feel you.

 

[BlueSaffron]

I don't think it's just boredom though, at least not for me. For me it's a fundamental dissatisfaction with the way my life is right now. Dope used to cover that up - I had no idea how much more livable dope made my life until I stopped doing it. Without dope, I'm realizing that I should've left this situation a LONG time ago. I'm looking for work everyday, and as soon as I have a job and it seems to be stable I'm going to move. Even though I now it'll be hard at first, I feel like I'm going crazy. Anyway my point is... maybe it's not just boredom. Maybe there's something in your life that is lacking, and now that you're sober, that hole is more obvious? Just speculating, because that's what it is for me. I just don't think it's just boredom, I have lots of stuff I could do here, tv and movies, videogames, all kinds of stuff, I could go out, there's tons of stuff to do. But it doesn't work because that's not what the problem is.

Today isn't the best of days. Not horrible, just not that great. So tired of being in WD all the time. Want to end this ffs (my taper). Maybe it's better to just go through it. And yes I'm aware I've written this before... I think I say it once a week.

It's just the anxiety sucks. I'm not sure dragging it out like this makes sense tbh. I thought I was getting 13 today but I guess its tomorrow.

I just want this to be over... have I mentioned that already? I want to feel normal. I'm afraid I never will. I'M SO TIRED OF FEELING LIKE THIS, I WANT TO FEEL OKAY AGAIN, NOT LIKE HELLA DEPRESSED AND CONVINCED THE GUY IM SEEING DOESNT LIKE ME ANYMORE AND THAT ILL NEVER FIND A JOB, ECT ECT. I dont' normally think like that but the anxiety makes my thoughts just circle and race and race and makes me feel like everything's horrible and awful. I DONT WANT TO FEEL LIKE THIS ANYMORE.

So yeah. I'm thinking about just jumping, taking some gabapentin for a few days and getting this over with instead of doing this slow torture of a taper.

But then, I've said that before.

I guess I could always try it for one day? The clinic I'm at, you can miss two days no problem, on the 3rd they just call the dr first before they dose you. I think you have to miss 7 consecutive days to be kicked off. I could always try two days without it and if it's totally miserable, just go back to the clinic on the 3rd day.

I dunno. Going out with the exbf/roomate/liarextroadinaire so he can buy a suit for a wedding, that'll kill a few hours. When I come back I'm most likely having a drink. Or six.

starting to think I should've just cold turkeyed it.

 

[Azure Cloud]

Blue, I totally get what you are saying about the dissatisfaction being related to something fundamental about how we live our lives. Yes for me this is a very large thing drug use both covered up and allowed. Personally I fucking hate my life and I have a very good idea why I allowed my addiction to go on for so long.

I also understand your desire to jump off the methadone and of course you should do whatever you think best but you've done so good so far why suddenly change the plan. You impress the hell out of me with your fortitude and the progress you've made. I don't want you to mess up now. From personal experience, tapering too fast and/or jumping off at too high a dose has always resulted in failure.

Every milligram lower you stabilize at does translate into less physical discomfort when you finally jump off. You are also giving you brain more time to heal under conditions more stable than cold turkey. If there is a chance this can positively affect the length and severity of PAWS, I'd stick to the taper as least until 5 mg.

You seem like such a strong and capable person full of potential. Where you are at now is very temporary. Just focus on the prize; everyday you don't use and stick to your plan is a victory.

 

[P.o.T.u.S]

For what its worth im sure the guy your seeing still likes u.hell im starting to like u lol.u have more strength than any woman ive met and u seem very capable of making your life something you can be proud of...if u can get over this u can do anything..theres only up from here%)

 

[BlueSaffron]

Blue, I totally get what you are saying about the dissatisfaction being related to something fundamental about how we live our lives. Yes for me this is a very large thing drug use both covered up and allowed. Personally I fucking hate my life and I have a very good idea why I allowed my addiction to go on for so long.

I also understand your desire to jump off the methadone and of course you should do whatever you think best but you've done so good so far why suddenly change the plan. You impress the hell out of me with your fortitude and the progress you've made. I don't want you to mess up now. From personal experience, tapering too fast and/or jumping off at too high a dose has always resulted in failure.

Every milligram lower you stabilize at does translate into less physical discomfort when you finally jump off. You are also giving you brain more time to heal under conditions more stable than cold turkey. If there is a chance this can positively affect the length and severity of PAWS, I'd stick to the taper as least until 5 mg.

You seem like such a strong and capable person full of potential. Where you are at now is very temporary. Just focus on the prize; everyday you don't use and stick to your plan is a victory.

I kjnow what you're saying about just stopping... it's just so amazingly frustrating and feels like it's taking forever to taper, every day feels like a battle, I'm not trying to exxagerate or anything, that's just how it feels to me. I wake up sick, I try to wait til 8:30 to drive to the clinic, drive home, wait for it to hit me, it hits me and I feel better for a couple hours, during that time I try to get stuff done.. then the afternoon comes and the depression. From 1 to 6 pm is the hardest. I usually start feeling better in the evening... then trying to kill time at night til I can go to sleep around 11. Lather rinse repeat. Writing it out it probably doesn't sound that bad, but I've been on opiates a long time and I honestly feel like I'm just now waking up to what my life really is like in reality, not softened by opiates... and I really don't like it. No part of it makes me happy, not one bit. Of course it doesn't help that I'm sick most of the day so little things that would give me a boost (a tv show, a song, whatever) don't, because too many of my extra opiate recepters are just...empty. It's so weird to experience something that I know if I was feeling normal, I would enjoy, like, for sure - and just feel nothing.

But yeah. I'm not going to use I don't think.

I've also come to the unfortunate realization that alcohol just doesn't do it for me. I like to drink when I'm out, or when I'm hanging with someone. But just at home by myself to relax, it does nothing for me. I tried again tonight, I had one drink, and I didn't even finish it. Alcohol is no opiate :/

Thanks for saying I have potential I hope to start realizing it soon.