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Opioids I am going to be a guinea pig and attempt to reverse my opioid addiction.

Cyb said:
Just my opinion, but, I think that you're not in withdrawal due to Suboxone's half life. Mentally, you're looking for some sort of 'result'. Normally you feel sick after 8 hours, but I can imagine a lot of that is mental exasturbation. Now, you wake up, still with Suboxone satisfying your receptors, but not in the mindset of ''it has been X hours, I should be sick now,'' therefore... you are not sick.

Or maybe you have found chemical magic. (What I'm honestly hoping for...)

Cy
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It was definitely sickness after 8 hours. I think it had to do with the naltrexone. When I gave up on in I think the boxones started working normally OR the half lifes caught up after 5 days because 3a.m. I woke up with RLS and restless arms (the worse) and the depresssion started around 9pm last night and it took 25mgs of valium to go to sleep. I took some 4mgs of sub(at 3am), an hour later I slept like a baby.

I get my next script the 25th. Gonna try this again with oxy. Don't think its meant for suboxone. Subs have a stronger hold than naltrexone so do not think it wil work.

Experiment not over. Just on hold.
 
needlejuice said:
u get sick 8 hours after 4mg sub? i bang 2mg a day and need more oxy than that to get high and i dont feel sub withdrawal until going at least 2 days without it and i am a very skinny dude
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I have no explanation for being able to get hi after taking suboxone. 4 mgs usually blocks me for a couple days, better yet 4 for 5 days in a row but I got high on (what I consider a small amount) of roxis.

Think naltrexone played a role. That is my only logical explanation based on my prior experiences.

If I can do a good sub taper before my next script it should lower my tolerance even further maybe helping this experiment out more.

I have one X factor though. I am an addict. You hand me 100 30mg roxis and I will take 10-20 at a time and they will be gone in days. I have to find a way to exhibit self control or find someone to control the doses for me.
 
Ultra low dose naltrexone isnt as effective as NMDA antagonists, results with NMDA antagonists for amphetamine/opiate tolerance are very consistent, but not with ULDN or proglumide.
 
lozgod said:
I do not think this is doing shit. Then again there are no studies on ULDNX with bupe. Have roxis coming Friday. Not many consdiering my habit but could probably be a better judge of effectiveness.

Odds are the naysayers are right. Ain't no escape from this fucking life but jail or death. Been 16 years since I been to prison. If i can't get off this shit I will eventually lose everything and end up back in there. There is the honest productive ambitious me then there is the I do not give a fuck me. Addiction brings that out. When I was a teenager/early 20s my life was like a gangsta rap song on a lower scale. Did stick ups, sold drugs, stabbed a couple people. Since growing up the shit my dad tried to scream in to me set in and I got it together. Fuck this addiction. I want out.

I will continue the experiment with the roxicodone. I won't give up but if this doesn't work I don't know what comes next but I can't live my life spending every fucking dime on pills. would be cheaper to shoot dope but eventually my tolerance will go up on that too and the same results will come. I shot it one time and didn't feel 3 bags and that was supposed to be the bomb dope.

12mgs of sub and I aint stabilized. might be the ULDNX. Took some valiums and naprosyn for the leg pain.
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Lozgod, I have been following your thread for a little while now and I think what you are doing is incredibly risky and brave. I think myself, as well as many posters on here can relate to how you feel and your desire to reverse an ugly addiction. I too love rap music just because it reminds me so much of my life. I am in my early 20's right now, but I feel like I have dealt with more shit than most people deal with in their entire lives. I recently had to move back home because I was no longer able to pay my rent since all of my money was being spent on a cocktail of drugs.

12mgs of sub is rather small in my opinion if you have a large habit like I did. I am currently stabilized on 16mg. I know most people feel that 1-4mg can hold a habit of any size, and while that would keep withdrawal away, I don't feel that such a small dose kills cravings; plus you are still able to get high on doses below 4mg, which I don't like. I know I definitely will not be able to push through 16mg for at least 3 days if not more. Also, I cannot take Suboxone, I can only take Subutex because the naloxone makes me sick as a dog and I know quite a few people with the same issue.

Lastly, I recently ordered some Lyrica after reading the entire Lyrica mega thread. I have never found a drug that makes me feel so good while trying to stay off of opiates. It not only kills my anxiety as well as a benzo would, but it also curbs my cravings for most drugs (I say most because it mixes nicely with weed lol.) I think if you can manage to get stabilized on Subutex and Lyrica you will feel so much better about your addiction. I also recently have been trying to work the NA program (don't flame me for this - I know most people here are very against the program,) but obviously, that alone does not take away my desire to do drugs. The combination of Lyrica, Sub, weekly therapy, and meetings helps me feel so much better about my addiction.

I really commend you for what you are doing, but if things don't go as planned, I suggest you try some of the things, if not all, that I just spoke about. I intend on continuing to follow your post and I wish you the best in your attempt to arrest or reverse your addiction.
 
back to life this thread is. Last night I said F this addiction. I used the night before only 70mgs of oxy (low dose for me). 24 hours later took about 1-2mgs of naltrexone. RLS like a mutha. Took 120mgs of valium and couldn't sleep. Finally took 4mgs of suboxone on top of it and it went away. I feel asleep for 8 hours. Woke up fine. Don't know if the suboxone knocked off the naltrexone or if the naltrexone dose was so low the sub overrode it or if the combination did something but I am fine right now. I think it has more to do with the sub than the naltrexone. Waited it out 3 hours but the RLS was too much. I am going to try to muster up 3 days clean and try the naltrexone again at a low dose. Supposed to up your endorphins 300%. I got to see if this works. Wish I never took the sub now. Then I could pin point what really helped.
 
Ah, I was really hoping this would be some kinda opiate miracle.... props for experimenting and posting your results, though. <3

The closest thing I've found to a magic pill is Black Seed Oil - major potentiation and great withdrawal aid, but I haven't been using it long. Got a buzz off a maintenance dose of dihydrocodeine, though, so def worth a try. =D
 
Bump. ^^^^ yeah black seed oil or i remember some dude mentioning it in the H potentate mega thread being a wonder, easily sourced it in melb because of our ethnic diversity. a Turkish connect 15 bucks for 200ml.... it's called Nigella sativa and it's a wonder drug

Anyway i noticed other discussions on this but thought i'd bump this thread. from what i understand so far is the LDN is 3-1mg.... even .5mg? and ULDN is 10-20µg or 100-200µg?

looks like it's pointless using buprenorphine with it, unless the right amount bupe can ease a precip WD?? thought i read that somewhere here

After a bit of research i really think i should try ULD instead of a low dose because i'm on small amounts of OC(40mg taken in the day) and by the time i'm going to bed the OC has all but worn off. I'll guess i'll just play around with µg doses and flirt with larger doses when routinely switching to subs as i do to stockpile oxy's
 
Cane2theLeft said:
^Ibogaine is truly unique and fascinating. Its a shame that in many places (like my home, the US) its schedule I and outright illegal for all purposes. I really wish they could investigate and study this.
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for what it's worth, I believe all hallucinogens have some value in addiction treatment. maybe it's no more than the deep introspection they provide, but mushrooms and MDMA have worked wonders for me in the past - though unfortunately it isn't permanent.
 
Good luck with your experiment mate. It would be fantastic if there was a magic bullet which could kill tolerance and dependence. I, like the OP have never felt normal unless on opiates. I used to self medicate with phet, but although that initially gave me the confidence and motivation I was after, it was always false.But as soon as I tried opiates it was like I had found what had been missing all my life. this is why I can't see myself ever being opiate free. therefore if this works it would be like finding the holy grail.
 
Its not going to work although I'm not sure exactly what it is you are trying to do.

Are you trying to reverse tolerance?
Are you trying to stop wds?
Or are you trying to fight the paws aspect of wds?


As for reversing tolerance this is actually a somewhat ancient idea that has been mentioned tons of times before and ALREADY tested. There is no need to make yourself a guinea pig. Even the people who claimed their tolerance was reversed, it wasn't significant enough to rule out placebo, AND the second they went off the naltrexone their tolerance came right back up.
What exactly do you plan on doing? Because naltrexone (even at low doses) is known to make people feel like absolute shit (which is contrary to popular belief the says a low dose like that shouldn't be felt).

But I'm about 99% sure even if it does work, its only going to reduce your tolerance by the tiniest amount possible, and the second you stop and take a regular dose of opiates bye bye all that wasted work to reduce your tolerance by 1/1millionth of a what it was before.

As for physical wds, again, its not going to do shit and it only likely to make you feel worse.

HOWEVER, for PAWS, I do see LDN being quite affective in alleviating them. This is something I want to try myself next time I stop opiates is instead of relapsing at day 23 sober (like I did last time) I'd take a low dose of naltrexone and see how it works.

The problem STILL with this, is the second you get off the LDN you resume paws exactly where you were before.
The brain will always fight what you put in it to achieve homeostatis, and you are almost trying to reverse mother nature here. Any imrprovements you do see, are still due to the naltrexone, and its a matter of time off the LDN before you're right back to where you were before.

Thats why I'm having a hardtime understanding the actual benefit here. I want to try LDN like I said for paws but I have no hopes at all that it will actually reverse paws, but merely camaflouge PAWs till the LDN is ended (and with that considered I'd be better off just taking something like codiene).

G/luck with w/e happens just don't get your hopes up is my point.
It seems like once a month someone discovers low dose naltrexone and makes a thread about how they want to change the rules of science... only to dissappointed in the end. Most don't even try after they see how many times its actually been talked about/tried before.
 
I gave up on this. So did the makers of Oxytrex. The success rate was too low. When I combined the ULD Naltrexone and Oxy it was a very uncomfortable experience, unpleasant enough to discontinue it pretty quickly.

There is about a 40% success rate with Oxytrex so I would say it may work for some people. Just didn't work out for me. Then again I can't say I gave it an honest 100% all in try.
 
Bojangles69 said:
Its not going to work although I'm not sure exactly what it is you are trying to do.

Are you trying to reverse tolerance?
Are you trying to stop wds?
Or are you trying to fight the paws aspect of wds?


As for reversing tolerance this is actually a somewhat ancient idea that has been mentioned tons of times before and ALREADY tested. There is no need to make yourself a guinea pig. Even the people who claimed their tolerance was reversed, it wasn't significant enough to rule out placebo, AND the second they went off the naltrexone their tolerance came right back up.
What exactly do you plan on doing? Because naltrexone (even at low doses) is known to make people feel like absolute shit (which is contrary to popular belief the says a low dose like that shouldn't be felt).

But I'm about 99% sure even if it does work, its only going to reduce your tolerance by the tiniest amount possible, and the second you stop and take a regular dose of opiates bye bye all that wasted work to reduce your tolerance by 1/1millionth of a what it was before.

As for physical wds, again, its not going to do shit and it only likely to make you feel worse.

HOWEVER, for PAWS, I do see LDN being quite affective in alleviating them. This is something I want to try myself next time I stop opiates is instead of relapsing at day 23 sober (like I did last time) I'd take a low dose of naltrexone and see how it works.

The problem STILL with this, is the second you get off the LDN you resume paws exactly where you were before.
The brain will always fight what you put in it to achieve homeostatis, and you are almost trying to reverse mother nature here. Any imrprovements you do see, are still due to the naltrexone, and its a matter of time off the LDN before you're right back to where you were before.

Thats why I'm having a hardtime understanding the actual benefit here. I want to try LDN like I said for paws but I have no hopes at all that it will actually reverse paws, but merely camaflouge PAWs till the LDN is ended (and with that considered I'd be better off just taking something like codiene).

G/luck with w/e happens just don't get your hopes up is my point.
It seems like once a month someone discovers low dose naltrexone and makes a thread about how they want to change the rules of science... only to dissappointed in the end. Most don't even try after they see how many times its actually been talked about/tried before.
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You are correct in a lot of aspects here. People that benefit from LDN must continue the LDN to continue seeing benefits. It is more than likely a life long treatment. I don't know if you would pick up where you left off in PAWS but PAWS would more than likely return. I would think it would be a lessened PAWS. As your body stops making antagonists (the brain makes the to fight the overload of agonists during abuse) because of the introduction of outside antagonists, and the upregulation of receptors I would theorize that you would be better off, maybe out of the water. Hard to say unless someone does a study. LDN is more studied for auto-immune illnesses. The only studies regarding opaite addiction are rediculously high doses (50-100mgs) or ULDN. Nothing in the middle LDN area.
 
I just wanted to try an ULDN before bed as i understand it will block all my mu receptors while i sleep, or for 6 hours and then have it's effect of the natural stimulation of the production of endorphins...ie i don't want to be depressed and thats why i'm only interested with an ULDN before bed whilst taking OC during the day.

Anyway they're in the fridge and i'm still on subs for now. long term goal is to try Ibogaine, which i'm very interested in as i have an interest in entheogens and spiritual healing through the use of them. obviously i'll have access to many when i want but i'm not ready for anything until i get off my AD. There was a Shaman in Melbourne a few weeks ago and he told me what i have to do. as with Ibogaine well its up to me to make the pilgrimage.... but might not be needed depending on what happens when i undergo Ayuasca
 
This worked for me. I cut off about 1/5 of a 50mg Naltrexone tablet, put it in a glass amber dropper bottle with hot bottled water, agitated until fully dissolved. I've been taking 1 drop which I know is at least 2 micrograms every 8 hours.

Tonight I took a drop along with my poppy pod tea. My nod feels like the first nod.

I went through 20-30 hours precip WD TWICE by taking full dose naltrexone too soon after an opioid (to unconstipate myself and reset my tolerance... before I knew how long opioids stick around) so I was really scared of trying this. But it works. It didn't interfere with my sleep, didn't cause any loose stool or leg cramps.

To think that one tablet will provide over a year worth of ULDN doses.. wow.

I am dependent on opioids and have a high tolerance (or did have a high tolerance). So after doing this for a week I'm going to cold turkey poppy pods and see what impact it has on dependence, if any. I will report back my findings (if I forget to, feel free to shoot me a PM).
 
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