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GHB/1,4-B/GBL Discussion and use

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The quoted text below should answer your question a little better. :)

Final of the GHB/1 said:
2.2 How do I tell the difference between 1,4-B and GHB?
Unless you know what you’ve got from the start, there is no fail safe way to determine what the blue liquid sitting in front of you is… Some people have asked me about what can be tested with the difference in freezing points, here’s the best explanation I can offer…

The freezing point of 1,4-B is 20 degrees celsius. That means at 20 degrees celsius, pure 1,4-B will turn to a solid oily mass. The freezing point of GHB is –20 degrees Celsius. That means even in the fridge, or at –10 degrees, pure GHB will remain a liquid. Thus if you’ve been sold something as “pure GHB” but you doubt your dealer, you can put it in the fridge and see what happens. If the liquid freezes it’s 1,4-B, if it stays in liquid form, it’s GHB.

The flaw in this system is that these freezing points apply only to pure materials. If you add water to 1,4-B it’s going to change the freezing point of the mixture. There are going to be an awful lot of possible freezing points, to the extent that you can't reliably determine the composition of what you have. I don’t in any way endorse the use of this method to determine what you’ve got, but it’s in here because it does exist, and people do ask questions about it.

1,4-B tastes extremely bad – it has been described as “like drinking liquid plastic”, “distinctly chemical” and “acrid”. GHB tastes more like seawater or licorice. The tastes are easy to distinguish; however unless you’ve tried them all, you’ll never know which is which.

May I suggest you check out the Final of the GHB/1,4-B/GBL FAQ and the GHB/1,4-B/GBL Discussion and use thread.
 
Re: the taste, Try dropping a tiny drop of GBL on your tongue or down your throat to savour the taste and bad solvent effects it has undiluted. :) (read: don't farking do it). Don't even put it near your eyes or nose.

1,4B isn't that bad tasting at all. Maybe i'm a freak but I like it better than the way Na-GHB tastes (made with baking soda)... But yeah GBL for the win! Squiret it in a glass put 30-50ml of OJ in it, shot it, then have a full glass of juice (the fruit type)... You're feeling it in MINUTES.

edit: also are you going to combine it with anything? certain drugs you will need less or more G is all I wanted to add.

Benzos don't use the same receptors and there's been studies done to properly sedate people for operations using benzos and GHB together without complications (but my guess would be the patients breathing was closely monitored if not laboured) but its best if you're going to have G with other drugs, save the benzos for at least 2.5-3 hours after the last G dose, for the rebound effect to get some sleep.
 
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Also ive done a fair bit of research and from what i have read, they say that GHB can be one of the safest party drugs if done responsibly ie: correct dosages and taking the correct precautions...is this true??

Because of Gs sharp dose response, it simply can't be called a safe drug. Can it be used without death? Yes, but that alone does not make it a safe drug. Also, any preparation not intended for human consumption is just that. Industrial contaminants in 1,4 B have may also cause problems, maybe not right away, but there's certainly potential for later in life.
 
phase_dancer said:
lso, any preparation not intended for human consumption is just that. Industrial contaminants in 1,4 B have may also cause problems, maybe not right away, but there's certainly potential for later in life.

This is why I stopped using 1,4b once my supply of GHB ran dry :(
 
^^ p_d: looking at general assay details of 99%+ 1,4-b, it seems highly unlikely that it would be dangerous.

Chronik Fatigue: Are you making these assumption based purely on your thoughts and things that have said industrial solvents and chemicals like 1,4-b may be mixed with harmful things like paint stripper etc? I think thats a foolhardly thing to expect unless you're buying street quality drugs.
 
Also, does one of the mods want to add this to the GHB Discussion, i think it's quite relevant.. Even make that thread a sticky - As it holds relevance for alot of questions. And the resident g heads can answer q/a in there easily rather than hunting thru the masses
 
^^ p_d: looking at general assay details of 99%+ 1,4-b, it seems highly unlikely that it would be dangerous.

If your bottle says that and came sealed I guess it probably is fairly pure. I'll look over the typical industrial synth and see if that 1% could be nasty, but most is probably water. The other concern is of course what long term effects there could be. AFAIK there haven't been any trials/ assessments done with long term users.
 
I wouldnt be trusting ALL dodgey places that say 99%.
Since when can yellow GBL be 99%+ and give worse w/d effects and physical problems.

What would make GBL yellow anyway?
 
^Not entirely sure really..

But GBL doesn't have the notable purity qualities that 1,4-b does - eg: freezing at room temp. That basically gives a way relatively pure stuff.
 
OK, there are several routes to producing 1,4-B, but the most common is via what's known as the Reppe process, which is basically the addition of acetylene to carbonyl compounds. However, three other processes; acetoxidation of butadiene, the cis-butenedioic anhydride method and hydroformylation of an allyl alcohol have recently been introduced, so I don't know how much 1,4B is made via these methods.

Incidentally, in 1975 ~70,000 tons of 1,4B was produced annually. In 1990 this had risen to 498,000 tons and by 1999 it was ~700,000 metric tons. China stepped up it's production in 2000, and aimed to further increase it's production by 10% per year.


There are several other routes listed in literature, but from what I can gather, most of these aren't used for mostly economical reasons.

So the Reppe processes to 1,4-B involve

Acetylene + formaldehyde ---> propargyl alcohol + 2-butyne-1,4-diol

2-butyne-1,4-diol + H2 ---> 2-butene-1,4 diol

2-butene-1,4-diol + H2 ---> 1,4 butanediol

The hydrogenation (H2) processes, use copper acetylide as a catalyst. This compound is a shock sensitive explosive but would not be thought to be present in the final product.

From Kirk Othmer - Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology, the impurity found in 1,4 B made via the Reppe process is Acetal (1,1, diethoxyethane) although it's only likely to be present in small amounts with very small amounts of water (~0.04% ).


The MSDS of acetal mentions;

The substance may be toxic to central nervous system.
Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

The other processes use different catalysts- mostly cobalt carbonyl or rhodium carbonyl for hydorformylation. I don't know what catalyst is used with acetoxidation and whether there are identified contaminants from these processes.
 
Would a 1,4B to GBL conversion be likely to contain left over ether or whatever else was used to convert it. The stuff had more of an alcoholic taste and different smell to any other GBL I've had. It actually tasted a bit more organic and soapy but then had the GBL yerckk taste.

Im kind of worried what I drank a litre of since it was yellow in the space of say and a month and a week or so 24/7. And if its done permanent damage
 
Copper chromite is often used as a dehydration catalyst in converting 1,4-B to GBL. There are probably also others I'm not aware of so it's hard to say whether impurities from the catalyst are likely. Certainly, being a chromium VI compound you wouldn't want to ingest any, as Cr 6+ compounds are typically carcinogenic.

Kirk Othmer does say that GBL will darken in colour when stored for long periods. What these products are I don't know off hand but I'll give it some thought.
 
Great so I gave myself cancer.

The long sotrage thing sounds kind of right though.
 
GHB Effects?

Hi all, i was just curious as to how GHB has its effect, im pretty sure it doesnt work with by releasing seretonin like pills do, but i was more thinking it may work with producing more dopomine to the brain?

But i may be wrong, can someone explain to me exacly what it does to the body/brain to have its effect?

Thanks:)
 
It works on receptors that pretty much do nothing else drug interaction wise. The GHB receptors.
Valium and Alcohol use different receptors but they mostly share the same liver enzymes which can run into trouble. That and impaired breathing

There would be some serotonin and dopamine action (especially after big dose/pass out), but it is mostly GABA interaction with HGH (and some say testosterone) release but who knows Im sure theres plently of papers out there but I'm sleepy and maybe someone else can find them :)
 
Ah ok, i only ask because i recently broke up with my gf and im finding things quite hard at the moment...when i was going out i was taking ecstasy and a bit if speed to keep me awake but i found that useing pills and speed only made me worse on the come down so i decided to stay off them for now.

Ive done GHB a bit in the past but ive down it while on speed, and i was wondering if i went out and only took GHB by its self, had my fun and went home that i wouldnt feel all the depresive effects that i would normaly experience with the come down from speed or ecstasy..and maybe just sleep when i get home!
 
in the honey moon days no..

when abused or just overused.. the worst. total anxiety, adrenalin and haluucinations once your dose is over.
 
^Thats a bit overblown, i wouldn't say hallucinations. I never experienced any hallucination upon G withdrawal
 
Try a litre of GBL in a month 24/7 then come back and say no hallcuinations.. Its quite common for delerium to occur after excessive abuse.
 
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