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[DMT Subthread] Entity / Alien / Machine Elf Contact

Joe Rogan (of Fear Factor, UFC, etc) perceives these beings to be autonomous intelligent entities which seem to be at home in DMT land.

As for me personally, I've had contact when smoking DMT. I had a lot packed in a weed pipe, and was vaping perfectly until I heard a voice in my head say "He's coming back!" and I thought Holy fuck and lost the intense concentration need to continue vaping well.
 
I don't think there is any way possible to determine whether or not these entities exist independent of the human mind. At least right now there isn't. Even if one of them was to come to you and give you plans to build a new type of technology that produces limitless energy, it would still not prove they independently exist (this is how Tesla apparently came up with his inventions BTW, with flashes and visions, not DMT). Even in this case, the entities could just be conjured in your mind to convey the information. How could they look and behave similarly in the minds of different people from different areas and backgrounds? Shared memory. DNA. Collective unconscious. There are many explanations. Of course, it is equally possible that the entities do independently exist. They could exist in another dimension that we gain access to for a short time. Both possibilities are valid, but neither is likely to be proved any time soon... IMO.
 
Yea there no way to verify or prove to other people. So here's a question...

How do you tell the difference between ideas that originates in your own mind from a known source or stimuli, and ideas transmitted to you from another entity?

Ya, I know you can't prove telepathy either, but just try to humor me.
 
This means that what people are being shown is that these realities are independant constructs, which are not dependant on an "observer" to manifest or project them into existence...
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Yep 'real' is things that still exist even if they've never been incorporated into your working model of concencus reality. Of courwse identifying such things is in itself a paradox!

Yes DMT encounters are real. I got engaged to my DMT entity after a whirlwind romance and we are to marry in October.
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Well Ismene, where are the invites to said wedding bash? =D (it'll be one hell of a styag night eh?)
 
We are planning the invites as we speak, my fiance would like to invite over several mushroom entities for the reception :)
 
I believe these experiences are as "real" as you want them to be. If you felt somehow this impacted your life in a very real way, for better, then integrate it into your normal life.
 
I remember once a long ime ago i pondered thed thought/question, "what is reality?"

I guess i is anything that can be expierenced. Also there parts of "reality" that cannot be expierreced.
Nothingness is real.
Even your emotions and thoughts are real on some plane/level.

I would like to know what isnt real?
even things that do not exist, can still be imagined and contemplated, so are they not real also?

DMT entites are (i think) both subjective projections of our own psyche and mind,..... arechetypes
and
I also think DMT allows us more sensory input allowing us to percieve and expierence the objective world in a more manifested and clearer (although it can be confusing) manner.
So we expierence our mind both percieving the objective reality and also projecting our own selves into the objective.
what you see is both realities interweaving into one another.
We interpret, define, encode, etc.. reality then it is processed in a manner in which our minds are programmed to work and expierence reality.

So even if something is not real ....can it not be instantly created first with a thought?

Ya, I know you can't prove telepathy either, but just try to humor me.
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as for this i expierence or at least think i expierece telepathy on strong tryptamines like shrooms, dmt, and lsd.
They excite receptors and cause your mind to operate differently.
If to people are stimulating the same receptors, if they are taking a substance that changes your electromagnetic frequencies to the same or simialr levels, then would you not be able to transfer thoughts from one to another using your mind? Just like heat, wind, and gravity...our thoughts are actually projected from our mind. And whatever frequencies your mind is at it will attract the same type of frequencies/energy.
If tryptamines stimulate the frontal cortex as well, then wouldnt it be like turning up the electricity in the front of your mind, allowing you to send and recieve thoughts, which are transmitted and sent thru electronic impules in our mind. your mind is on the same "station", and you are using a different part of the mind for language that you usually use.

There is also the idea , that i strongly believe in also...is the collective mind.
We are really one mind, just expiereinceing reality in different vessls allowing a more collective and complete expierece our reality.
We have an ego which makes us think of "I", allowing independent survival, but when on a tryptamine the ego part of the brain is turned down (dissolved), and your energy is focused on other parts of the brain. We are one mind but have seperate brains.
Are your thoughts created by you? our is there a seperate entity flowing thru us giving us these feelings and ideas, and thoughts?
We have consciousness by the life force which is the same force that flows thru all of us. Our "self" likes to take credit for its ideas and thoughts, but maybe this life force just flowed thru our brain and we interpreted it and understood.
So with a dissolved ego we can both feel, think and see the world very similar, allowing us to "connect" or have telepathy.

Telepathy is not proved by tellling someone what they were thinking...this would be doubting the persons ability to attract the others thoughts to him.

I doubt i explained it well...but it has to do with neuroscience.
I am sure they can better understand telepathy with brain imaging, neurogenics, EEG, etc.....

ehhh sometimes words cannot decribe everything., and and subjectivily understood
 
As far as the "collective consciousness" thing goes....it's very plausible. Look at ants, bees, some birds, and even certain fish species. By themselves, they are nothing but simple minded food gatherers. Put them together into a vast network and it becomes an entity unto itself, one that can build complex architecture, make incredible food, fight battles, etc. Some species, like bees and ants, can't even SURVIVE alone, they REQUIRE the company of their fellows. The whole group is far more powerful than the sum of the parts.

Why would it be so hard to think of humanity as that, we are slightly intelligent by ourselves, enough to get by, but if we could all join together, think of the possibilities! Why do we abhor loneliness? Like Joe Rogan says, we are punished in prison by sticking us into SOLITARY confinement, we would rather mix it up with murderers, rapists, and thieves, than be alone. Women stay with husbands that beat them half to death, rather than be alone, and vice versa. We FEAR loneliness, more than death it seems.

Our consciousness, our world view, is defined by point of view. Some of these things like DMT, salvia, shrooms, and lsd, they let us "step outside" of normal boundaries, and let us see a small part of something MUCH bigger, more vast, than we can even dream about without the aid of these powers. The NATURAL drugs, why are they the most powerful mind altering substances known to man? Even lsd, synthetically produced, starts as a natural fungus. Why are the psilocybin mushrooms not poisonous to us, while most regular ones can KILL you? Salvia, while misunderstood, certainly can't kill you in itself...same for dmt. I have a fascination with the natural things, it is vastly curious and I plan on understanding them more.

I can't wait to get ahold of some DMT.
 
illusion25 said:
a good link
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No it isn't. It might have been interesting, if they made a distiction between proven fact, conjecture, mumbo jumbo, bold assumptions, new (im)agery and so on.
They do not, and therefore it's pretty much worthless imo.
 
this is the question. it hurts, it really does :\

lately I've been having trouble getting into the mental place needed to trip. I know I am at a point in my life where I need to, but I haven't been able to eat LSD since the equinox, and have only been able to smoke small, small doses of DMT (when I can get the courage to do so).

about a month ago I had a definite +4 (and was obvious in the forum by me proclaiming to have met god and even going so far as to accuse someone of stuff). It wasn't the first time I've had a +4, but as with every other time it happens...as time passes I start to feel like it was all just a drug-induced delusion. And I start to convince myself I didn't even have the experience I had...or that it didn't matter.

Well, it's fucked with my head a bit before, but lately I just don't even know...the time prior to the last +4 the experience was screaming out at me 'THIS IS REAL!!!! why are you so stubborn????' And, as said, the next trip was a god trip...

but I'm not that convinced it is real. if it is...I know I should have more faith in everything...that I should actually 'let go' in my physical life...and ride the waves...

but I can't help wondering if I'm just deluding myself...if 'letting go' isn't really letting go into anything....

god damn...was hoping that would come out more comprehensible... whatever...seriously though, :\ NEVER been this confused before...

used to be able to say...oh well, it doesn't matter...but now...it almost does...the deeper you go the more integrated it all becomes... ? ...
 
It's nice to see this thread getting some life again. I skipped it the first time around since I've never tried DMT, but I'm hoping to get a visit from the fairy soon. Hopefully it won't be long before I have an informed opinion on the topic. ;)

That said, I think Jamshyd's theory about egregores is pretty fascinating. It would be the theory I've seen that makes the most sense so far in explaining how many people experience the same entities, assuming you believe they are "real" and not just a psychological projection.

If it did turn out that the whole thing is the product of your brain, Jungian Archetypes would be an interesting explanation. Whether or not it's an objectively real experience, how fascinating is it that you could potentially experience an anthropomorphization of facets of your own personality? Imagine how awesome that would be for self-exploration if you could ask questions of your own psyche about your motivations, or potential solutions to problems. Even if you don't get a readily meaningful answer, it'd provide food for thought and meditation.

I am a firm believer in the idea that reality MUST be objective. If we're all just figments of someone's dream (whether it's willow's or anyone else's ;)) then I find it odd that their dream has such an ordered system of rules (e.g.: physics) readily observable by the dream-inhabitants (i.e.: us). If this is truly someone's dream, then what's to keep them from dreaming us all to death, or dreaming an end to war, or dreaming the existence of heretofore mythological creatures? Since none of that has happened, I'm forced to conclude that reality must be objective.

However, I don't think that precludes the possibility for things beyond our understanding any more than the Big Bang or Evolution precludes the possibility of the existence of God. Instead, I think it gives us even more hope of being able to understand these entities some day if they are objectively real, and if they're not, it'd give us amazing insight into the faculties of our own brain. If they were real, think of how much knowledge a scientific examination would provide into the nature and workings of the extra-dimensional world. And since DMT occurs naturally in the human body, consider the implications of humans developing through evolution to have the capacity to sense these entities. Is this spiritual capacity something that's been naturally selected, or can it be a fluke that we have this ability?

I've a lot of opinions either way (whether they're objectively real, or just a projection of our psyche), and I think that no matter which way you view it, the implications for either physics or psychology are fascinating. It's one of the reasons I can't wait to try DMT!

Imagine how long-winded I'll be when I've actually had the chance to breakthrough and form a first-hand opinion. :p
 
I am a firm believer in the idea that reality MUST be objective. If we're all just figments of someone's dream (whether it's willow's or anyone else's ) then I find it odd that their dream has such an ordered system of rules (e.g.: physics) readily observable by the dream-inhabitants (i.e.: us). If this is truly someone's dream, then what's to keep them from dreaming us all to death, or dreaming an end to war, or dreaming the existence of heretofore mythological creatures? Since none of that has happened, I'm forced to conclude that reality must be objective.
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Two things seem to be of significance here, and one is synchronicity. According to some views, when one begins the actual act of observing and questioning the nature of reality and whether it is ordered or not, strangely- order (in the form of coincidence/synchronicity) appears. A time when I experience synchronicity regularly is after steady cnsumption of DMT; I feel that the patterns and connections I see and, more importantly, intuit arise simply because my mind is more susceptible and more firmly aware (conciously, in the control rooms0 to its interconnectedness with everything. Or it could be the aberration of a deluded brain, but I do ponder the signinficance of that anyway.

The second thing is in regards to the many things phsyics and observation cannot explain; well, at least Newtonian physicas- and here I mean the 'super-natural', that which seems to transcend those laws and boundaries. This could range from telekinesis, ESP, hauntings, poltergesitc phenomena, remote-viewing (even when the location is not actually human), lucid dreaming, prophecy, coincidence etc etc. Whilst these things are tempting to dismiss, they are just to common and too ingrained in our mythology's and cultures to have no meaning or reality.

To me, all this suggests subjective reality is like an agreement we all made millions of years ago, but have since forgotten what the agreement was, and now we stumble about trying to figure out how to use our bodies and brains correctly in this reality. There certainly are things that are immutable- 2+2 ALWAYS equals 4, but there are also things that appear flexible and largely determined by the prescence of thought, observation and interpretation. Even the equation 2+2=4 needs a brain to compute it.

So insummary, I believe that we both exist in AND create reality. There is an apparently static (or very inert) physical Newtonian world of up-and-down and predictability as well as a possibly more real component that we seem to access through psychedelics, which could be called the spirit world. The two are symbiotic; or probably more clearly the same. The subject is a subject to the object; the object is an object to the subject. Its all relaitve dude....

Innidentally, I have sex dreams most nights so have fun in them....:)
 
willow11 said:
The second thing is in regards to the many things phsyics and observation cannot explain; well, at least Newtonian physicas- and here I mean the 'super-natural', that which seems to transcend those laws and boundaries. This could range from telekinesis, ESP, hauntings, poltergesitc phenomena, remote-viewing (even when the location is not actually human), lucid dreaming, prophecy, coincidence etc etc. Whilst these things are tempting to dismiss, they are just to common and too ingrained in our mythology's and cultures to have no meaning or reality.
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Newtonian Physics, and Classical Mechanics in general, is very limited in scope. I honestly feel that if any of these phenomena are going to be explained (ie: if they're objectively real and not just delusions) it's going to be by Quantum Mechanics. There are whole chapters in that particular "book" that have yet to be written, and a lot of things we just don't get yet. ("I think I can safely say that no one understands Quantum Physics." -- Richard Feynman) The fact that these things have not yet been verified or explained does not mean that they CANNOT be verified or explained.

willow11 said:
So insummary, I believe that we both exist in AND create reality. There is an apparently static (or very inert) physical Newtonian world of up-and-down and predictability as well as a possibly more real component that we seem to access through psychedelics, which could be called the spirit world.
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That doesn't necessarily imply that any potential as-yet-unverified spirit world does not exist within the bounds of objective reality, subject to rules and laws that we simply don't understand yet. Our thoughts, feelings, emotions, hallucinations, and other things that we experience unto ourselves exist objectively, but as just that: thoughts, feelings, emotions, and hallucinations. The exciting possibility to me is that people are potentially perceiving something that IS objective. ie: The DMT entities or egregores or whatever you'd like to call them are objectively real, and the DMT is opening your senses to a hidden world within objective reality, be it an alternated dimension, the spirit world, or what have you. Even if this is not the case, and the entities are instead the manifestations of psychological processes, that's still exciting for reasons that I mentioned in my previous post. That's what I was driving at. :)

If there were an overlap between subjective perceptions (I can't even bring myself to call it subjective "reality"), and objective reality, then the perceptions would cease being subjective and become objective. To an extent I think this is what arts, storytelling, etc. are. They're a way of taking your subjective perceptions or fantasies or emotions, and quantifying them in a way that they become real to other people in a way that's capable of being interacted with. EDIT TO ADD: This shouldn't be take to mean they were entirely subjective to begin with though. They DID objectively exist, but in a way that could only be perceived by you subjectively.

Beyond that, I simply don't think subjectivity matters, because, like you said, it'd all be relative, and that's just no basis for a system of reality!

willow11 said:
Innidentally, I have sex dreams most nights so have fun in them....:)
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Sounds awesome, as long as I don't necessarily have to be having sex with you! ;D As long as you don't dream that gravity quits working or something...

Great post, by the way. This whole conversation makes me feel like I'm having an acid trip, only I feel less like I'm just talking out of my ass. ;)
 
How do you prove the existence of immaterial things.? Good luck trying to capture a ghost in a glass test tube.
"All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness, experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves."

-Bill Hicks


We are figments of our OWN imagination. And we are all the same person. I/we are extremely schizophrenic.
 
If I knew that I'd have proven a few of them by now!

Newton published his deduction of the inverse square model of gravitation in 1687. Henry Cavendish measured the gravitational constant in 1798. John Dalton revolutionized the idea of the atomic model in the early 1800s, but it took another 100 years to discover electrons and photons, and then another 50 or 60 years to discover hadrons and quarks.

Science is very good at proving the existence of immaterial things, often things that are so small we can't even see them. Sometimes it posits things that need to exist that we haven't seen yet (Higgs Boson / "The God Particle"), and it's equally possible that things are there which we haven't observed, or don't yet know how to look for.

Who knows? Maybe when the Large Hadron Collider comes online next year we'll discover the "DMT Entity" particle. ;)

Just because something is immaterial doesn't mean we can't prove it exists and do meaningful science on it.
 
^ Agreed. Science at all times throughout history has been continually advanced and sometimes turned on its head. Why should now be any different? The more we know, I am confident the more we will be able to explain. And the more we explain, the more we will discover we don't know. :)
 
Ismene said:
Yes DMT encounters are real. I got engaged to my DMT entity after a whirlwind romance and we are to marry in October.
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It's now November and I was wondering if there were any baby entities on the way ;)
 
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