[DMT Subthread] Entity / Alien / Machine Elf Contact

[StuckMojo]

what exactly does 'real' mean anyway?? 8(

 

[max_freakout]

I always thought that the realness of something was determined by the number of people that agreed that it existed. If one person sees something happen and tells about it then they might be lying. But if two people agree that it happened its much more likly to be real.

But surely a thing can only be one or the other, either completely real, or completely unreal?

And why are human beings the ones who get to decide what is real and what isnt?

And isnt reality a property of the things themselves? Ie it isnt a property of people's perceptions of things, but rather a property of the thing that is being perceived? Otherwise you could argue that the darkside of the moon isnt real, because noone has perceived it

 

[nbsp]

And isnt reality a property of the things themselves? Ie it isnt a property of people's perceptions of things, but rather a property of the thing that is being perceived? Otherwise you could argue that the darkside of the moon isnt real, because noone has perceived it

true perception extends far beyond our five senses, from the realm of theory to the realm of pure imagination. I find it interesting how this fails to resolve a definition of reality, instead only compounding it further.

 

[cognosis]

true perception extends far beyond our five senses, from the realm of theory to the realm of pure imagination. I find it interesting how this fails to resolve a definition of reality, instead only compounding it further.

Also, humans have to recognize that they are tuned in to a very specific frequency of reality. Look at the electromagnetic spectrum and the limiteds section which we can see for example. Then look at Bats that are virtually blind but use echoes to see, or insects with compound eyes and birds being able to see magnetic north. The perception of reality is dependant on the makeup of the organic system, it's particular sensory aparratus, and it's metaprogramming(social condioning).

You have to change the definition of "real" too to imply everything that happens, not just limiting it to the phenomenon of what happens that is concrete and quantifyble.

 

[max_freakout]

Is there actually a proper definiotion of 'real' that we can all agree to in this thread? Otherwise it would seem the discussion is pointless

 

[Heyoka]

We know very little, we probably never will.
Also it doesn't actually matter all that much either IMO.

Ironicly, for me this is one of the powerful effects of DMT! DMT is like a cartoon anvil of pure novelty dropped on my head! As though no matter how stale and configured I might see things, within ten minutes the universe has again become pregnant with possibility.

Of course the experience is real but it is only in ones mind. Sometimes I think that DMT just tunes my brain to the appropriate frequency needed to access an interstellar network of entagled particle based computers and that although my experience is trully subjective as far as others on earth are concerned when I interact with alien species , they experience me as well. It's like the movie "Contact". The experience is huge and dramatic and steeped in signifigance but it's personal and part of the experience of DMT is integration of the experience (which this topic is symptomatic of ) and for me has resulted in the redefinition of "real" and "not real" as simply points in a continuum.

Terence McKenna was very fond of a Sci-Fi writer named Greg Egan. I've read many of his books and found that his writing explores reality in a manner that is tremendously illuminating (Permutation City, Diaspora are excellent).

Everything is in the mind and that's pretty cool because although some are fond of pointing out that we're born alone and die alone, the truth is that at least at death the mental models of everyone we've ever known dies with us so it's like a big death party . Trully all we ever know of others is our own mental models of them.

 

[illusion25]

Is there actually a proper definiotion of 'real' that we can all agree to in this thread? Otherwise it would seem the discussion is pointless

i agree.
first "real" or reality needs to be defined and agreed upon.

to me ...real=anything that can be expierenced/
so any thoughts, visions/sights, sounds, feelings, dreams are all real.
anything our senses can expierence is real. And I am sure there are things that are real that we cannot percieve or know about.
so even everything we can know and expierence may not be the full spectrum of reality..there are some things that humans cannot percieve or even comprehend.
maybe ..maybe not......
just my thoughts

 

[max_freakout]

to me ...real=anything that can be expierenced/
so any thoughts, visions/sights, sounds, feelings, dreams are all real.
anything our senses can expierence is real. And I am sure there are things that are real that we cannot percieve or know about.
so even everything we can know and expierence may not be the full spectrum of reality..there are some things that humans cannot percieve or even comprehend.
maybe ..maybe not......
just my thoughts

I think i pretty much agree with this, but i certainly don't think this is a consensus view on what 'real' is, for example most people would insist that dreams arent real but rather they are 'imaginary' or 'in the head', and anyone who thinks this way could say exactly the same thing about DMT, which makes the whole debate quite frustrating

 

[Fishface]

'Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one' Albert Einstein %)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I am not sure whether these entities are just manifestations of our mind, if they are real, or if it is some strange combination of the two/other answer...

The entities/aliens I have encountered always have something new for me to learn...and they praise me when I learn it...so for me DMT is all about progress...what can I take from the trip to apply to the next trip...what can I take from this and apply to my life? Either my subconcious has some things it needs to help me understand, or 'aliens' are really trying to help me. The thing is...I don't care...I mean I do, I appreciate it...but there are no negatives with it...if they are my mind or if they are aliens...so be it...they are peaceful and friendly...

I think there might be something with our collective unconcious (I prefer to view it as a field of energy permeating through all of us at all times instead of some thing instinct put into our brain) and we are just tapping into it.

TT: Thank you so much for this post. This is the track I was developing toward but I think reading your words help me understand. It is all good....thanks!

Love,
Andy

 

[swilow]

As I said nothing is real!! Wake up!! You are constucting reality as you speak, you live in my dreams, I live in yours.... it doesn't make a difference whether something is real or exists- only if it has meaning.

 

[MeDieViL]

...

 

[max_freakout]

As I said nothing is real!! Wake up!! You are constucting reality as you speak, you live in my dreams, I live in yours.... it doesn't make a difference whether something is real or exists- only if it has meaning.

When you say 'nothing is real', do you mean that there are no things that are real, or that 'nothing' itself is real?

 

[swilow]

^^^^No things, not even those words. Please don't bring me further into this linguistic mindgame.....or do, its not actually real or sgfrkjhfg so thats fgruj]

 

[Xorkoth]

Everything we encounter and experience is just a reflection of our mental models.

 

[specialrelativity]

I asked this same question, whence coming out of my first DMT experience. Was that just the effects of a drug or was theree something to what I just experienced. Many a thing from that experience has manifested itself in consensus reality AFTER the experience. Which tends to prod me to believe that DMT is some kind of portal to the future. I try to take it at face value, it is what it is, but always with that questioner in the background who wants me always to ask "am I believeing my own bullshit?"

specialr

 

[qwe]

we don't know how the brain produces consciousness

i hypothesize that there are multiple parts of us which experience qualia (consciousness) and we are just one of these (the one at the 'top')

and with psychedelics u can meet these other conscious entities inside of you

either that or there are no entities and you're all deluded

 

[BreakingSet]

I asked this same question, whence coming out of my first DMT experience. Was that just the effects of a drug or was theree something to what I just experienced. Many a thing from that experience has manifested itself in consensus reality AFTER the experience. Which tends to prod me to believe that DMT is some kind of portal to the future. I try to take it at face value, it is what it is, but always with that questioner in the background who wants me always to ask "am I believeing my own bullshit?"

specialr

Me too, my friend. Me too. I believe because it's fun to believe, so you can I'm sure understand how DMT could create dangerous waves for my little boat.

 

[1024]

I remember having the following ideas:

The brain is the seat of conciousness, be that physical or connected to a higher self.

Drugs will havea physical effect on this conciousness, which transcends the physical to act on the metaphysical, leading to extra dimensional expereinces.

All good so far.

Not all conciouness is sentient, kind and benevlonent. Certain tribes and factions are here solely to fuck people up, leaving them a clearer path to their own ends.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have gone through some ups and downs lately but have come to the conclusion that the entities one sees on psychedelics are possibly as little as just eye candy and sometimes as much as eye candy with deep emotional content attached to it.