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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

Designer opioids?

I think you know what i meant....I never proclaimed to be the most eloquent and certainly not the most succinct..........
 
like said above, designer drugs got started with opiates long ago, right after Heroin was outlawed. That's when acetylated hydromorphone and oxymorphone came about as well as several others.
----> Federal Analogue Act
almost any RC synthetic opiate would fall under SOME analogue categorization.

Also, the more you go in the synthetic direction, the more hepa/ neurotoxic they become, i.e.

Morphine and Codeine which have no significant neurotoxicity (possibly due to long use by humans - same as the gene which metabolizes alcohol a la "asian flush") versus Fent and Methodone which aren't so great to use long-term because of their somewhat toxic effects.
It's just a much different feeling, not to say there isn't a place given the current state of prohibition, but it seems more reasonable to me to go with pods (which I know are in short supply nowadays - must be alot of people into floral design now) as a quasi-legal route, rather than an RC.
They are available from some legitimate sites that sell JWH type thingys, et al, but the only one i've seen is endomorphine which has to be stored at -30*C - no real idea how you would get that into your body. These really are research chemicals and they just should not be used as there is no "safe" way to use them because there is no established history of the dangers from which to base an analysis.
 
negrogesic said:
And again, I will chime in; the best RC opioid I have come across was a rather pure o-desmethyltramadol ("M1" metabolite/tramadol pro-drug) from a well-known source that stopped selling it due to issues with suppliers and some complaints of psychonerds, who had evidently given the supplier some negative feedback for selling an opioid (the supplier sold the typical RC psychedelics and stimulants). Plus, I bought the supplier out of his remaining quantity; and yes, it is all gone. That was truly some good stuff. I believe this was ~1 ago, and is the only time in half a decade that I went briefly back into IV drug use (yes, it was that good). Despite its structural similarities to tramadol proper; 'M1' felt nothing of the sort, very MOR specific, "relatively potent" intravenously, but only mediocre orally etc. I will throw out an antiqued word that has an obscure meaning: Narcosis........this compound, purified and IV'ed at dose, induced a very nice, deep 'narcosis'. It was not as "warm-bodied" as a morphine/morphinans/phenylheptanes, and did have striking similarities in both dosing and qualitative nature to meperidine. There was also a bit of a "body load", again, reminiscent of meperidine. Yet, it was qualitatively more "warm-bodied" than the fentanyls, though again, not nearly as "clean". Perhaps it is best that this is no longer available, although that supplier was actually being rather discerning in respect to his customer base. I believe that supplier is no longer "fully" operational, and even if operational, no longer offers this compound. And please, no PM's, they will go unanswered.
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i just want to chime in and say, they werent the quality vendors so many people give them credit for.

my dosing pattern for the whole gram i got was 200mg down the piehole, 300mg IV and then again 300mg IV.

note: i had literally no tolerance at the time.

the shit was cut too hell and weaker than real tramadol.

I suppose i know who to blame now:X
 
Sorry - I was referring to the people who shout about people selling RC opioids. That's snobbery. No compound is inherently bad - application MAY be ill-advised. Being G-coupled protein receptors, the opioids are a very interesting; for one thing.
 
I don't kniow; i never tried said vendors other products. The M1 i bought was around low 90% in purity according to my melting point apparatus (yes i know, crude, certainly no HPLC), which I consider rather high for an RC bought from such a distant nation. Perhaps it was because I bought a large quantity that I got better quality stuff......the guy seemed like he wanted to unload it all, and I was very happy to relieve him of the product. Perhaps he had scraps left he cut, I honestly don't know, but the stuff I got was very strong, in my mind superior or at least equal to meperidine. And, i had a tolerance at the time. This stuff was no joke......and trust me, I know my opioids. I am sorry it did not work out for you.

Oh, and by the end, i was taking multiple injections of a b-static solution made to 500mg, so yes, the doses were big. However, I have appeared to have developed a permanent tolerance to opioids (80mg of oxycodone with zero tolerance produces only a mild narcosis, there was once a time where 10mg of oral oxycodone had an strong effect). I believe this to be a result of a number of years of 240-380mg/day methadone maintenance (which was discontinued some 5 years ago). The tolerance never fully went away.
 
50mg of o-desm snorted made me nodd a bit (I have zero tolerance for opis) 50mg eaten where to muc for my girlfriend who also has zero tolerance so if you ived 400mg then you got some fake prodruct
 
that krypton shit had o-desmythtramadol and caffine in it? but tramadol is scheduled in china so hard to get synthesized
 
The M1 stuff is almost certainly made from tramadol, so someone, somewhere is doing it. If you were going from scratch, fexeladol (or, rather, it's S,S isomer) would seem a more obvious choice. Looking at the patents, only the -F analogs are stronger & who wants to play with DAST?
 
Nope.....it was not fake......melting point suggested low 90s in purity. I just have a massive natural tolerance. Obviously i tried 50,100,200mg/ml, but my opinion of a good nod would be an OD for most. ~4 years ago I was clean from opioids (methadone) for a year, and tried some hydromorphone IV......2mg-nothing, 4mg-a little, 8mg -closer, 14mg-right track, still not enough, 16mg..... there we go. And no, these were not pills; I have long resolved to never inject pills again. It was the 10mg/ml dilaudid 'HP', however it was over 2 years past expiration date. Again, my idea of "narcosis" is deep nod, with stupor, periodic loss of consciousness, hypotension, pinpointed pupils in low light etc (these sound like symptoms of a overdose).

The point is, 400mg of IV tramadol M1 is admittedly high, but I am not a typical case. Interestingly, after a night of binge dosing, I felt a distinct "body load" primarily in the form of generalized aching/sore skeletal muscles. This may be a result of the repeated high dosing and issues with elimination (hepatic overload, etc) , or perhaps some tramadol-like monoamine activity that had been temporarily masked by the high MOR affinity. I have experienced a similar next-day "toxicity" with high dose meperidine abuse, which I suppose implies that this body load may be a result of the secondary NRI properties (it ws the racemate).

The "rush" from IV M1 was decent at higher doses, but not as strong as meperidine. It was also more sedating than meperidine, and subjectively felt nearly devoid of monoamine reuptake inhibition (again, this may have been simply overshadowed by its MOR activity). However, the comparison with meperidine is not a truly fair one, given its somewhat unique affinity for the DAT, and unlike tramadol M1, meperidine's monoamine transporter modulation CAN be 'felt' upon administration, and is what gives it that characteristic 'rush'. Also, I admit that I am not quite clear as to the role of meperidine's N-demethylates (namely intermediate B), and I do not recall if the metabolites from pethidine's CE enzymatic hydrolysis have any activity (perhaps someone who knows more about this can elucidate).

Went off-topic, my point was that despite my dosing in the hundreds of milligrams, the tramadol M1 obtained was of high purity (i consider low 90s high purity), and I do not recommend dosing at the levels I was using; this is extremely dangerous, particularly with a compound as esoteric/poorly-understood as O-desmethyltramadol..........
 
danceofdays said:
I also am a Canadian, so I wasn't really thinking about the analog rule... luckily we don't have one of those up here :)
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Lucky? Mayhaps...
Your provincial and national officials would rollover and play ball for the DEA in a cool Canadian minute if one of your citizens were selling designer opiates over the internet to Americans and your drug laws would change practically overnight to reflect a policy that continues to run parallel to that of America.
So how lucky are you, eh? ;)
 
I've often pondered on the QSAR of the tramadol class of opioid. I would imagine there could be strong analogs with a 5 substitution (basically ring-open phenylmorphans). Bitch to make, of course, not worth the effort. Fexeladol's S,S optical isomer is pretty strong as it is...
 
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