• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

  • Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

Designer opioids?

So you would equate 400mg of M1 to about 16mg of hydromorphone? That would make it about 25% the potency of morphine? I can see the RC market not wanting to go much stronger than that: people dying is a bad move for business....
 
o-desymthtramadol is the way to go they dont have to dose tiny amounts and easier to eyeball, but the problem is tramadol is schedule 1 in china so it woukd have to be synthesieszed elsewhere, unless theirs a different way to make o-desymth-tramadol without making tramadol itself?
 
It is possible to avoid going via tramadol but I don't think it's anywhere near as cheap to do. There are other countries that do cheap(ish) custom synthesis & it's legal to do so. I imagine that M1 is made from commercial tramadol.

The only other opioid that looks like it would suit the RC market is AH-7821 which is supposed to be equipotent with morphine but interestingly didn't produce tolerance or addiction (in monkeys at least). I've not read all the papers but I do wonder if it's actually similar to tramadol with serotonin activity being part of the analgesia?

Apart from that, there is only 1 series that's simple, flexible & of the right level of potency & that's the cyclohexanones Lednicer developed. Forget the silly-potent cyclohexanols, the simpler cyclohexanones range all the way up to 1.5x morphine - it's pretty easy to tune them with mixed agonist/antagonist properties so they are not easy to OD on. I don't know if they have delta agonist activity, but it's certainly possible (the cyclohexanols do).

I was interested in those Lednicer opioids because every other opioid can be overlayed with the morphine molecule... excelt this one!
 
fencamfamine said:
It is possible to avoid going via tramadol but I don't think it's anywhere near as cheap to do. There are other countries that do cheap(ish) custom synthesis & it's legal to do so. I imagine that M1 is made from commercial tramadol.
Click to expand...
O-desmethyltramadol is most likely made from tramadol. The route is published and tramadol's synthesis is also established, hence this would be the most obvious approach. There's no obvious and trivial way to avoid tramadol in the synthesis, but I can't provide any details due the currently valid Bluelight forum rules.

fencamfamine said:
The only other opioid that looks like it would suit the RC market is AH-7821 which is supposed to be equipotent with morphine but interestingly didn't produce tolerance or addiction (in monkeys at least). I've not read all the papers but I do wonder if it's actually similar to tramadol with serotonin activity being part of the analgesia?
Click to expand...
It must be "AH-7921". Literature about this compound is actually extremely scarce and there is absolutely nothing to be found with regard to any serotonergic activity whatsoever. The claim that this compound doesn't produce tolerance resp. addiction is highly questionable, as its action was shown to be µ-mediated.
IMHO is the lack of further information and the sudden stop of publications about AH-7921 after 1988 very suspicious.

Apart from that doesn't fit any opioid the RC-market. That damn market is irreversibly damaging the complete designer drug within shortest time, only due to greed and laziness.
Furthermore have opioids an extremely high abuse-liability and several respected members of this forum made it clear on more than just one occasion that such stuff shall not be marketed. This calls for major desaster!!!
 
I know the actual Ki of AH-7921 is actually pretty poor, it's the lipophilic nature that means it has a fighting chance of being reasonably active. I have a few papers on it. The 3,4 dibromo is actually more potent (ED50 0.02Mg/Kg) than the dichloro (ED50 0.045) is more or less exactly matches the Ki ratio.

I've yet to come across a MOR agonist that didn't represent an addiction hazard but some mixed agonists/antagonists don't seem to cause tolerance/dependence in animal models (I'm looking at viminol here).

It's odd that both M1 & (7-OH) mitragynine seem to be on the market but it hasn't caused a disaster (yet) due to the fact that opiates are still cheaper on the street. I would think any vendor would price the material so it doesn't represent an economic way to become dependant. After all, cocaine is classed as a very addictive material & yet MDPV hasn't hit the headlines in anywhere near the way that mephedrone has. I don't like straight stimulants, but amongst those who do it seems popular & cocaine-like.

I agree though, opioids are a risky material. Unfortunately, most vendors are simply out for what they can get.
 
Last edited:
The 3,4-dibromo-derivative of AH-7921 is known? Interesting, to say the least. Mind to tell us the source for this resp. the mentioned Ki/ED50-values?

Edit: All ED50-values that I can find are in the range of ca. 0.6-2.5 mg/kg (depending on ROA and used assay). That is still one magnitude higher than yourn values. Strange, to say the least.
 
Last edited:
fencamfamine said:
I know the actual Ki of AH-7921 is actually pretty poor, it's the lipophilic nature that means it has a fighting chance of being reasonably active. I have a few papers on it. The 3,4 dibromo is actually more potent (ED50 0.02Mg/Kg) than the dichloro (ED50 0.045) is more or less exactly matches the Ki ratio.

I've yet to come across a MOR agonist that didn't represent an addiction hazard but some mixed agonists/antagonists don't seem to cause tolerance/dependence in animal models (I'm looking at viminol here).

It's odd that both M1 & (7-OH) mitragynine seem to be on the market but it hasn't caused a disaster (yet) due to the fact that opiates are still cheaper on the street. I would think any vendor would price the material so it doesn't represent an economic way to become dependant. After all, cocaine is classed as a very addictive material & yet MDPV hasn't hit the headlines in anywhere near the way that mephedrone has. I don't like straight stimulants, but amongst those who do it seems popular & cocaine-like.

I agree though, opioids are a risky material. Unfortunately, most vendors are simply out for what they can get.
Click to expand...


is mitragynine on the market or is it kratom you are refering to cause i havent seen much on. i would have to agree with opiates on the street are driving the vendors away as far as m1 is concerned. meph and mdpv are very fiendish IMO thats why you dont see much more concern out there when people arent retrieving the cocaine type rush more a late day on meth type rush... i can only do stims if im cool to come down other wize why crank my brAInwhen i could relax it you know
 
Anyone want to take a guess as to a starting dosage for AH-7921? The literature I'v read seems to be on par (as potent) with Morphine. Although as potent, dosage doesn't have to be similar.(mg. for mg.) The studies suggested an oral dosage for the concious dog as well as R. Monkey
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you.
 
a quick post for ah-7921 on 2 chem boards, in 1 country, got me 5 replies over 2 days from established companies, well with 1+year old websites and traceable history anyway, (one of whom i have dealt with for 2-3 years) and a further 4 of the usual blah,[email protected] potential pick pockets.
all could send samples under 2 weeks, with 3 of them ex stock.
with that much availability, and prices per kilo USD3500 - 6000 in one kilo buys, an active imagination could conclude there is a shit load of this stuff being used somewhere already!
chinese manufacturers list anything and everything to get a nibble but they most certainly don't make and/or stock stuff that doesn't sell!
so until someone who has actually tried it posts on bl, all are left to theorise where it is all going?
into the much talked about (and fda approved) opioid agonist in fast food cheese slices?
perhaps in little packets sold on street corners at 10 times the price?
maybe at least used as a 'cut' in the illegal street 'cousin'?
or just put into animal feed as a pacifier, as many other surprise compounds are?
obviously i have no idea, but for it to be so readily available, it's been used for a while, and in quantity.
i'll have to get some, test and post, as my curiosity is now irreversibly turned on, and theory has hit it's inevitable 'wall'.
theoretical masturbation might be 'fun' and safe and unlikely to harm anyones reputation, but as any honest wanker knows, practice is the only path to bliss, lol
 
everhopeful - careful as you tread the line of sourcing; also price discussion is frowned upon/not allowed
 
without those details the post would have been much less factual, as are too many posts. pardon my penchant for as complete a detail as i can manage, i shall remain vague and invite pm's from anyone wanting information.
 
^^^ I'm gonna guess all the AH-7921 is being used to create "UEI" and all the "enhanced" kratom. . .;)

Would be the scam of the century.......errrr, maybe the scam of the week. Scams are rampant nowadays...
 
Dosing phenazepam is simple if you dissolve it in 96% ethanol first. And nobody will notice 1-2 ml of ethanol added to their (alcoholic) drinks.
Click to expand...

I agree I have never had any dosing problems with Phenazepam, 500 mg. in 500 mL of 96% EtOH.

You can still find 0-desmethyltramadol for sampling if you know where to look; I find it to be quite the pleasurable opioid with it's long half-life and stimulant aspects.

It is the only RC opioid I have ever seen for sale though, it would be very interesting to see a few more of these suggestions come available.
 
I procured some AH7921 from a far east supplier. Tried 60 mg as as test dose this evening (I have high tolerance) followed by 70 mg about 45 minutes later. It was administered orally, weighed on micro scales then added to glasses of water. Stomach almost empty apart from consuming a pot of yogurt and a few nuts. Definitely feel something, feeling more serene and alalgesic effect on pian in legs. Rather an expensive way to buy what is basically synthetic Morphine! Any other experiences
 
got mine a cupla weeks ago but circumstances prevented me tying it until yesterday. vaporised ("spotted" it on ali foil with lighter underneath) 10mg and felt "dreamy" afta 10 mins or so, and was happy to drift off to sleep 15-30 later. i have no tolerance (speed freak by nature & practice) but i figure 20-30mg should produce a really nice feeling but wonder if the sleep might get me before i could enjoy the feeling. alas i have to travel the next week so won't get to test my guess foe another week.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top