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Design your own Antidepressant Pill

 
BingeBoy said:
Sublingual pill


8 mg of Buprenorphine
4 mg of Lorazepam
20 mg of methylphenidate
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Again, this will just get you high. It won't cure depression, and as a matter of fact, chronic benzo use exasperates depression.
 
^
buprenorfine is the best anti-depressant i ever had


maybe the lorazepam would be better taken separately however , cause taking something for anxiety when one doesn't need it is going to cause anxiety in the long run
 
The long term neuroplasticity changes dont help depression, its the short term immediate effects unfortunately.
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Tianeptine definitely, in the long-term, increases BDNF and protects hippocampal volume similar to the protective action of SSRIs. Likely this is a result of combatting chronic stress. What is your evidence for your claim?

Again, this will just get you high. It won't cure depression, and as a matter of fact, chronic benzo use exasperates depression.
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Throw in some memantine to keep the psychostimulant and opioid (it's a kappa antagonist too, and that's great) working.
 
i'd also agree that buprenorphine as a µ-partial-gonist and mainly as a k-antagonist would give a therapeutically valuable antidepressant.
the other ones suggested by bingeboy, well.....

@jamshyd: not everything that instantly causes positive emotions is automatically worthless as an antidepressant. eventually it depends on the question wether the certain compound causes long-lasting beneficial changes in the brain and this topic is, unfortunately, completely not understood by current sciences.
by the way, i doubt that today's antidepressants do exert these changes to any really noticable degree.
 
I know all too well that opiates enhance your mood and thus probably will work very effectively for depression, but the tolerance will stay a problem.

Adding low doses of an antagonist helps reducing the tolerance but if you'd take those pills for years you certainly will develop a tolerance.

So it will always be a trade-off between effective medication and side-effects like addiction. But I think in cases of severe depression, what's so bad about addiction? For example I'm on Subutex (buprenorphine) and it really helps me. I have very little craving for other drugs and do very well at university. Of course I'm addicted to the buprenorphine, but that's not a problem at all for me. I want to quit it over the next months, but only because I know I can quite well life without it because I don't suffer from depression. But if someone does, why not give him a pill that removes the symptoms.

After the decades where pharmaceuticals where overused - like methamphetamine and a barbiturate for getting the household chores done easier - we now experience the other way of sometimes giving the patient too little.

So there certainly are cases where depression is so strong that a cure would be worth the life-long addiction and tolerance problems. You just have to be careful and not try to ease any of life's problems with chemicals.
 
^ I personally despise buprenorphine, for several reasons.

- It actually made me more depressed! (and I had only bupe, no naloxone). It is NOT a universal cure for depression. Furthermore, scientifically speaking, most major sedatives (opiates, benzos, alcohol, barbs), if used chronically, will cause depressive moods.
- It made me act like an asshole
- Disgusting headache
- Extreme danger of asphyxiation with other depressants.

Opioids are NOT good solutions for depression, period.

bur: What is so bad about addiction (to opiates)? Imagine you're addicted to buprenorphine and you had surgery and actually NEEDED pain medication. Or imagine being in an emergency situation where you need all your strength yet find yourself in horrible withdrawal because you can't get your bupe. The list goes on. Dependence on drugs in general ties a weight to your leg wherever you go.
 
How good is the evidence that tianeptine reduces 5-HT levels, anyway? It could be one of these memes that get passed around because it's so interesting that a 5-HT-lowering drug would help depression. Maybe tianeptine is a simple dopaminergic, as that one study describing huge-ass-dose recreational use hints at.

To the people saying 5-HT is the enemy/not helping with mood, how do you explain the effects of MDMA? Sure it's also a DA/NA-releaser, so let me refine the question to "how do you explain the much more profound euphoria of MDMA compared to non-5-HT stimulants".

5-HT may not help with initiative and may not be reinforcing, but IMHO it does have some subtle helpful effects, possibly related to the neurogenesis stuff (wild guess). I'm not going off sertraline, but I may need to add something for energy.

serotonin-system:
Yeah, adding a selective 5HT2C antagonist to an SSRI sounds really intriguing. Are they available yet? (Not asking for sources, and presumably they're not misuseable anyway)
 
Opioids are NOT good solutions for depression, period.
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Well, bupe is atypical. The studies done with buprenorphine in treatment-refractory patients disagree with you -- very high effectiveness, low incidence of side effects, long-term in terms of depression studies. Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean, yadda yadda.

That's just my opinion.
 
maybe opiates with ULD naltrexone and DXM will be the perfect antidepressant, unfortinally not many ppl tried this so we can get an idea
 
i think you all are looking in the wrong direction,

sub-levels of some stimulants could work as antidepressants
(but do have abuse potential)
so do some of the beta-blockers,
the beta-blocker will also counter the hypertensiveness of the stimulant :

my design would be a simple :

3 mg 4-methyl-aminorex
40 mg propanolol.

and maybe some mesembrane is there also

but this ofourse raises questions ,
like what would it do to your heartrate
to your plasma systems and so on.
 
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rnd.id. said:
serotonin-system:
Yeah, adding a selective 5HT2C antagonist to an SSRI sounds really intriguing. Are they available yet? (Not asking for sources, and presumably they're not misuseable anyway)
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Hi,

The only thing to my knowledge that's near it and available clinically is nefazadone. A 5-HT2 receptor antagonist and weak SSRI.

SB 242084 is the most selective 5-HT2C receptor antagonist about at the mo, but its only in use preclinically. Some studies claim over 100-fold selectivity for the 5-HT2C over the 5-HT2A. In my experience, it is pretty selective. Far better than the competition anyway (ritanserin, ketanserin etc). ie it does a great job of reversing effects of selective 5-HT2C agonists like WAY 161503.

Couple of reasons why blocking the 2C might be cool:

1) 5-HT2C agonists inhibit 5-HT cell firing, and so do (acute) SSRI's. Blocking the 2C reverses the effect in the former, and partially reverses the effect in the latter.
2) 5-HT2C agonists are anxiogenic
2) 5-HT2C agonists reduce DA efflux in the Nuclues Accumbens

SS
 
^
Yeah but I think it's pretty low affinity. Maybe that's why many (including me) find it more stimulating than other SSRI's (like citalopram)? ie see above, 5-HT2C antagonists increase release of DA.

In reality, there are several 5-HT receptors involved in negative feedback on the 5-HT system, not just the 5-HT2C. The 5-HT1A is very important, and the 5-HT2A to a lesser extent. Also, some mediate positve feedback like the 5-HT4.

So any novel treatment strategy using this idea would probably involve blocking several different 5-HT receptor subtypes in combination with an SSRI.
 
what I would like to see

Pill #1: Amsterdam split, 100mg MDMA.hcl.
Pill #2: Playboy bunny, 50mg d-MDMA, 25mg l-MDMA, 50mg d-MDA, 50mg l-MDA.
Pill #3: Sunshine stamp, 100mg MDA, 250mg mescaline.
Pill #4: Alien logo, 20mg ALEPH-2, 50mg TMA-2, 50mg TMA-6, 50mg 3,4-DMA.
Pill #5: Speed bomb logo, 100mg amphetamine, 100mg methamphetamine, 30mg methylphenidate, 100mg 3-methoxymethamphetamine.
Pill #6: Madonna pills, 300mg MDE.
Pill #7: Timothy Leary pills, 500 ug LSD-025 tartrate a piece.
Pill #8: Jerry Garcia stamps, 300 ug lsd, 30mg psilocin.
Pill #9: KrZ powder, 3,4-dichloromethamphetamine.
Pill #10: Mickey Mouse pills, 300mg MMDA.
Pill #11: Sasha Shulgin pillls, 100mg MDMA, 100mg TMA, 100mg MMDA.
Pill #12: Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds pills, 3,5-dimethoxy-4-(n)-pentylphenylethylamine.
 
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<pyridinyl_30> said:
I think tramadol is largely worthless, as are the SSRIs.

Yes, they do *something* but sometimes that is not enough.
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The drug is normally meant to be accompanied by therapy (normally CBT).. This method of use has proved "worth it" for thousands of people. I have taken SSRI's (citalopram 20mg) for depression WITHOUT therapy and found it to be very much worth it. It puts you in a more positive state of mind, makes you look at the same things with a more positive thought pattern.. This by itself proved very helpful for me.
 
<pyridinyl_30> said:
Pill #1: Amsterdam split, 100mg MDMA.hcl.
Pill #2: Playboy bunny, 50mg d-MDMA, 25mg l-MDMA, 50mg d-MDA, 50mg l-MDA.
Pill #3: Sunshine stamp, 100mg MDA, 250mg mescaline.
Pill #4: Alien logo, 20mg ALEPH-2, 50mg TMA-2, 50mg TMA-6, 50mg 3,4-DMA.
Pill #5: Speed bomb logo, 100mg amphetamine, 100mg methamphetamine, 30mg methylphenidate, 100mg 3-methoxymethamphetamine.
Pill #6: Madonna pills, 300mg MDE.
Pill #7: Timothy Leary pills, 500 ug LSD-025 tartrate a piece.
Pill #8: Jerry Garcia stamps, 300 ug lsd, 30mg psilocin.
Pill #9: KrZ powder, 3,4-dichloromethamphetamine.
Pill #10: Mickey Mouse pills, 300mg MMDA.
Pill #11: Sasha Shulgin pillls, 100mg MDMA, 100mg TMA, 100mg MMDA.
Pill #12: Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds pills, 3,5-dimethoxy-4-(n)-pentylphenylethylamine.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure all of these pills are gonna increase if not CAUSE depression if used in an anti-depressant manner. A 1 off dose mixed with therapy, however, could well prove positive (minus a few)..
 
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