• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Design your own Antidepressant Pill

kaskelot said:
What if... what if depression actually is a complex syndrome constituted by several psychosocial components and a blend of neurotransmittor deficiencies, in different patients having different constitution resulting in variances of the same set of symptoms (apathy, lethargy, emotional distress, et al), due to a limited set of possible psychoneural responses to this syndrome?

How would you determine that, scientifically, and then communicate to "most everyone" so that they can "know[..] exactly what it is"?

Does my proposed view of depression seem far fetched and not so in tune with "real life reality"?

The opioids seem nice, because what they do, is to make you feel content and normal. But, they make you feel normal and content no matter what circumstances, so you'll keep all thought and behavioural negatives of the previous depression (if, someone depressed isn't depressed anymore under the influence of opioids, that is) and have no reason to work psychotherapically or with cognitive behaviour therapy or what not that is supposed to make antidepressive substance use unuseful for the patient in the longer run.

To me opioids (or opiates, really) are all fun and games, they are such a bliss every now and then after the poppies have bloomed.

But they are at least as dependence invoking as SSRI's, it's just that in contrast opioids will still be that way even though the receptor level tolerance is counteracted. Because you learn yourself that the opioid medicine is good for you. You don't learn yourself that it is necessary for a while, no, you'll learn that it makes you feel well. And you'll get a spontaneus response to most tough things based on how well this theoretical medicine helped with depression. 'Hm. Much distress for long time. Medicine fixed it. This distress seems acute. Medicine can fix it.' Trivially put, that is.

I fail to see why you do not propose DRI's, or even my all time favourite, the majestic and fantastical racemic amphetamine mixed up with a bit of sugar, as a pill containing tolerance countering substances. They will not only take away most depressions, they will also cause a momentum in life. You want to do stuff when on them, which is the opposite of how you feel when depressed. 'Neurotoxicity, bla bla, bla...' Yeah, but hey, we're talking small doses, right? People won't take more than prescribed, right?

Anyhow. SSRI's work great in people with depression, most of the time. But they don't work in people who just feel depressed. And the latter shouldn't be treated with drugs.

The latter should be treated with meditation or daily prayers, or some working out, or dietary changes (chelated magnesium, goddammit! fruits and greens 4 life, y'all), or all at once. Designing good life through that kind of hard work that makes it last. No clinically observable depression (PET, MRI, or such, no subjective diagnosis)? No medicine. Visit a priest or therapist.
Click to expand...

i myself am really slow and also incomplete at replying on boards, because of depression. so let me take this post for now...

i know you are saying that opioids are a get high drug, a recreation drug, but you forget that the endorphin system of the brain IS involved in mood and well-being so if someone is broken in that system, taking an SSRI doesnt treat them. So i think that the opioid system is more than a system of recreational drugs and severe pain relievers. thats pretty obvious even.

SSRIs work great in depression - for people who are put in the mental health system and still worked a job, still were able to leave their home, still able to function anyway, before they ever even took an SSRI, and then they take an SSRI and nothing changes except their sex life and perhaps some mild benefits, or strong adverse reactions.

SSRIs dont work in the other kind of depression. the kind that has you lying down on the ground begging for misery and torture agony to end on a daily basis. the kind that keeps you in bed all the time shaking legs and stuff. i tried them all, other people like me tried them all. they dont work.

Serotonin isnt even associated with mood as much as people think it is. thats why stablon, a serotonin lowering drug, induces a good feeling. researchers call this a "paradox" but really, no paradox exists.

I really dont know what to say about psychotherapy other than it works on depression as much as it works on narcolepsy, schizophrenia or autism. plus talking to psychotherapists feels very fake, cold and lousy to me but thats besides the point and just me. Maybe im just looking for a bigger difference. talking to pained psychologist doent interfere with sleep problems, a constant unending dysphoric malaise feeling and other effects.

id rather have more aggressive treatment for depression where it is realized that there is a more dire need to treat it at all and any costs. Live free or die. what is there to lose by society trying different mechanism drugs for depression, other than the CIA's cocaine/heroin business being cut into by new medicines?

I fully believe in the ethical philosophy of abolitionism, the kind you see on hedweb.com and related sites by David Pearce.
 
Last edited:
My pill contains memantine equivalent to 30mg, amisulpiride equivalent to 25mg, buprenorphine at 1.5 or so, and methylphenidate (something like the 30mg Daytrana patch), constructed to give an even dose throughout the day. Maybe it can be a patch.

Low-dose naltrexone and salvia divinorum can be administered nightly/occasionally with the intention of resensitizing for buprenorphine's mu agonism and kappa antagonism, which is mood-elevating. Hopefully finding the right dose of the LDN to not cause rapid withdrawal sequelae. Although memantine should (if the theory pans out) help keep everything effective, generally.'

edit: Hell, let's put 25mg of tianeptine, 100mg of amineptine, 500mg of citicoline, and 5 grams of creatine orotate in there too. :P

second edit: Hell, let's trade out the methylphenidate for amfonelic acid. Hahahaha.

And a few milligrams of (-)-1-(Benzofuran-2-yl)-2-propylaminopentane ...
 
Last edited:
>Anyhow. SSRI's work great in people with depression, most of the time.

They work barely better than placebo in most trials, and also cause emotional blunting and worsen apathy. I have tendencies towards very, very severe depression and anything serotonergic (except MDMA) just makes it a lot worse. I'm not unusual in this at all. Saying that "we're not really depressed" is just complete bullshit.

>But they don't work in people who just feel depressed. And the latter shouldn't be treated with drugs.

Sorry, but "depression" is an illness of the mind, not the brain. All we have are neurobiological CORRELATES -- not causes. Some depressives are found to have low levels of 5-HT ... others are not.

Until the full complexity of the link between "mind" and "brain" can be elucidated, which it has not (otherwise antidepressant monographs would not say that the mechanism of action is unknown) and IMO cannot ever be, depression remains a condition that is diagnosed based on subjective, experiential reporting ... and that's the way it has to be.
 
ziddy said:
Drugs with significant abuse liability are scheduled and not indicated for depression. That is not a matter in which any particular clinical practitioner has input.
Click to expand...

That's not remotely true. CII amphetamine / dexamphetamine and (I think) methamphetamine are indicated for treatment refractory depression.
 
Exposure to real, natural sunlight is often good for depression. Often the problem is seasonal, hormonal, or related to a change in living conditions, such as going off to college or the death of a long time sexual partner. There is, however, a certain amount of comfort to be had in living one's life as a depressive, and as such, sometimes people subconsciously choose to be depressed because that's what, in effect, they choose. An independent European study found the SSRIs to be slightly less effective than placebo in treating depression, and yes, stimulants such as dexedrine and fencamfamine are sometimes prescribed in treatment resistant refractory depressive states, but doing so puts a physician's DEA license under greater scrutiny and risk of forfeiture. Finding a drug that needn't be taken every day is not a high priority for the pharmaceutical industry, which is hell bent on large profit margins, but ideally having a pill that works without having to be taken every day would be best. MDMA is an obvious choice, but doctors are not allowed to prescribe it legally and the government even funded several spurious studies to "prove" its "neurotoxicity." However, clinically, only mild to moderate reductions in short term memory capacity were noted in heavy past MDMA users. Thus, the time has come for Wellbutrin (bupropion) to be improved. My proposed designer antidepressant pill is thus racemic 125 mg 3,4-dichloromethamphetamine hcl by mouth to be taken under the supervision of a medical doctor for treatment resistant refractory depression and amotivational syndrome as needed, not more often than once per week. Aromatic chlorines are already all over the pharmacopeia--from Zoloft, to Abilify, to Serzone, to Trazodone, to Wellbutrin and Zyban--and there is nothing inherentely wrong with using a pleasurable, possibly addictive drug to enhance the quality of a patient's life.
3,4-dimethoxyamphetamine (from clove bud oil) would be my second choice.
 
cool, could you write something regarding 3,4-dichloromethamphetamine?
i've never heard of that one before. don't you think it has probably an equivalent toxicity to para-chloroamphetamine?

ok, i'll search by myself for now :)
 
A good cocktail against depression for me would include:

- 1000mg Gabapentin
- 10mg Ketamine
- 30mg Tianeptine
- 1mg Nicotine
- 200mg L-Theanine
- 300mg Magnesium (forgot which salt)
- 15mg Zinc
- 100mg chromium
- Fish Oil

I think having all this (especially the Ketamine and Nicotine) in a suspended release patch would be awesome.
 
Chromium?!?!? In which form? And for what purpose?
Cr(III) is practically not absorbed by the intestines, Cr(VI) is really toxic, elemental chromium won't help at all.

???
 
I forgot which salt of Chromium I have used, but I've been recommended chromium by several people for my Reactive Hypoglycemia, and it seems to work very rapidly... Not sure how valid it is *shrug*.
 
chromium polynicotinate is another supplemental form, and avoids some of the (minor IMO) toxicity issues some people have raised with picolinic acid.

definitely improves insulin sensitivity.
 
oxycodone is the perfect antidepressant for me...i have been on everything, prozac, zoloft, celexa, lexapro, serzone, effexor, effexor xr, wellbutrin and now cymbalta..
i know that one of the pharmaceutical companies is working on an antidepressant that is opioid based but developing a way of changing some of the chemical structure that will make it not addicting like the opioids today.
my pain doctor gave me this red liquid opioid to put under my tongue and said that he was doing his own "study" on how well it works for depression..AMAZING!!! the high was better than oxycodone but more bubbly like and with no withdrawl...i have no idea what it was
 
@punkftl: Your doctor gave you a compound without letting you know, what it is??? What kind of bush doctor is this? Are you serious with this?
 
Jamshyd said:
A good cocktail against depression for me would include:

- 1000mg Gabapentin
- 10mg Ketamine
- 30mg Tianeptine
- 1mg Nicotine
- 200mg L-Theanine
- 300mg Magnesium (forgot which salt)
- 15mg Zinc
- 100mg chromium
- Fish Oil

I think having all this (especially the Ketamine and Nicotine) in a suspended release patch would be awesome.
Click to expand...

I see.. Tianeptine is one of the many antidepressants i tried against depression and the only one in the vague class called "antidepressants" that has any positive (instead of negative or non-existent) effect. But i cant get an effect out of 30 mg, more like 100 mg, and then that 100 mg is rapidly destroyed by the body (beta oxidation). The long term neuroplasticity changes dont help depression, its the short term immediate effects unfortunately. Therefore not cost effective and another dead end.

The zinc you have there can induce a protein that removes toxic heavy metals. Might as well add some ALA and Cilantro.
 
^ When you take Tianeptine, what are you expecting? Were you looking for a buzz? Tianeptine doesn't have much of a high. It simply alleviates severe depression rapidly, at least in my case.

This also goes for people posting in this thread: oxycodone gets you high. It doesn't cure depression, it simply makes you unaware of it. We're trying to give ideas of drugs that treat depression.

Oh, I use Cilantro (as well as Garlic and Turmuric) in almost every thing I cook :)
 
Sublingual pill


8 mg of Buprenorphine
4 mg of Lorazepam
20 mg of methylphenidate
 
4 mg of lorazepam? Holy christ, even with the MPH most people are going to pass out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top