Opioids Counterfeit methadone? Fent?!

[darvocet21]

I agree... from the way it looked in pictures and the circumstances surrounding it (that he described), I thought it was likely a genuine carry from the clinic, with just a character cut off on the label. His test run of it, describing 2+ hours to onset etc., also makes it seem like methadone and not fentanyl.

If you could still easily order fentalogues from China and just dump a pinch back in your empty carry with some juice, then it would be more plausible, but I can think of a few reasons why it might be an unlikely occurrence in general and in this specific case....

I don't know maybe I missed something but I have no reason to suspect methadone. I don't even know if he's dead but I'm willing to suspend my disbelief based on what seems to be a consensus.

Compared with heroin or oxycodone pills, the market for diverted methadone is passionate but not that large (especially with Suboxone diverted widely);

Methadone is implicated in the fewest opioid overdose deaths, not including bupe which began life as a schedule 5 narcotic because it's very hard to overdose on without combination w other drugs or alcohol.


And why not? If you have exposure to people who take it you're also likely to learn that it's a powerful drug ... I'm not ready to blame that blue liquid.

I wasn't even ready to accept that this was actual news, because I just wasn't. He was a cautious person. Evidently that's not enough anymore.

There's more information and resources to help addicts or just plain old experimenters than ever. And there's more death. F****** sucks

it involves many more hassles to prepare all the fake bottles with local clinic (and patient/doctor) names for every city printed on legit-looking labels, etc.; and finally, fake-methadone sellers would have to pay for the product, while their real-methadone competitors are selling something they got for free (most likely).

RIP in any event.

 

[JTemperance]

I don't know maybe I missed something but I have no reason to suspect methadone. I don't even know if he's dead but I'm willing to suspend my disbelief based on what seems to be a consensus.

Methadone is implicated in the fewest opioid overdose deaths, not including bupe which began life as a schedule 5 narcotic because it's very hard to overdose on without combination w other drugs or alcohol.


And why not? If you have exposure to people who take it you're also likely to learn that it's a powerful drug ... I'm not ready to blame that blue liquid.

I wasn't even ready to accept that this was actual news, because I just wasn't. He was a cautious person. Evidently that's not enough anymore.

There's more information and resources to help addicts or just plain old experimenters than ever. And there's more death. F****** sucks

I have no reason to suspect methadone in his possible death either, and hadn't, actually... I just thought it wasn't that likely to be caused by fentanyl originating in the blue liquid either.

Your point about methadone safety is well-taken, considering all the lives lost from over-regulation of MMT prescribing (in the US especially). But I was thinking of danger in terms of its lethality to an individual, compared to other opiates, and I thought I'd read that it was one of the more lethal. Possibly it was due to some of the cardiac effects that a methadone OD can have? I could be wrong about the whole issue; I could see methadone deaths having a higher proportion of polydrug/alcohol combos than other opiates, which could skew things to methadone's disadvantage.

I also recall flipping through a relatively recent edition of "Final Exit" or a similar book on DIY euthanasia, and looking through the pharmaceutical section. Their top-ranked opiate had traditionally been your Sch. IV namesake, but it had just been taken off the market at the time, so methadone was the runner-up, for lethality and ease of access. (With lots of disclaimers about the risk of arrest/mugging/ripoff, they suggest taking a lurk around your local clinic and making discreet inquiries... I think they may have also suggested that "these people" could potentially be a useful resource as you try to track down other of lethal medications, like the sizable dose of benzos in this recipe.)

 

[darvocet21]

I have no reason to suspect methadone in

Your point about methadone safety is well-taken, considering all the lives lost from over-regulation of MMT prescribing (in the US especially)

. But I was thinking of danger in terms of its lethality to an individual, compared to other opiates, and I thought I'd read that it was one of the more lethal. Possibly it was due to some of the cardiac effects that a methadone OD can have? I could be wrong about the whole issue; I could see methadone deaths having a higher proportion of polydrug/alcohol combos than other opiates, which could skew things to methadone's disadvantage.

Not many people out there want to sell their methadone, and why would they it's not like there's great heroin out. I tried a few months back. Like a bum I walked up to a clinic and asked some of the people if I could buy a take home. They were nice and polite but no one had any to sell

I also recall flipping through a relatively recent edition of "Final Exit" or a similar book on DIY euthanasia, and looking through the pharmaceutical section. Their top-ranked opiate had traditionally been your Sch. IV namesake, but it had just been taken off the market at the time, so methadone was the runner-up, for lethality and ease of access. (With lots of disclaimers about the risk of arrest/mugging/ripoff, they suggest taking a lurk around your local clinic and making discreet inquiries... I think they may have also suggested that "these people" could potentially be a useful resource as you try to track down other of lethal medications, like the sizable dose of benzos in this recipe.)

That's weird. Eli Lilly was gifted methadone in the days after World War II and patented it Dolophine from the Latin word dolor "pain"... For a while doctors were handing out 10mg pills like Norcos. Also Pethidine (Demerol, another totally synthetic German opioid, it was invented before the war. Whereas methadone I don't know what it was called in German maybe somebody does was in response to the Allies' success drastically cutting outside supplies of raw opium to Nazi Germany. Sucks to fight a war without analgesics)

Eli Lilly tried tinkering with the molecule and discovered it's hard to top German engineering and the best they could come up with was propoxyphene, a very mild agonist with some nasty metabolites. Hugely overprescribed. I remember a friend of mine had a prescription of it in high school. Big Orange caplets from the dentist. You want one? Sure

How many people died from that? I think that the issue was heart arrhythmias if I'm not mistaken . I know it was prescribed especially to geriatric patients, and that's been stopped at least in the US and Europe

Propoxyphene is almost certainly being sold if not manufactured in impoverished countries

 

[JTemperance]

Whereas methadone I don't know what it was called in German maybe somebody does was in response to the Allies' success drastically cutting outside supplies of raw opium to Nazi Germany. Sucks to fight a war without analgesics)

Polamidon, IIRC. They still use L-Polamidon (levomethadone) in Germany; it's dosed at a 1:2 ratio to racemic methadone.

Propoxyphene is almost certainly being sold if not manufactured in impoverished countries

I know Spasmo-Proxyvon (propoxyphene, dicyclomine, and something else?) was one of the more popular OTC drugs of abuse in India, but after several years of legislative wrangling I think they may have actually switched it over to tramadol now.

Were you actually a Darvon enthusiast when it was on the market? I only took it once a long time ago and don't remember much in the way of particulars, whether I really felt anything or not. I remember enjoying this article from the early 70s that I read, entitled " 'I got a yen for that Darvon-N' : A pilot study on the use of propoxyphene napsylate in the treatment of heroin addiction."

 

[darvocet21]

Polamidon, IIRC. They still use L-Polamidon (levomethadone) in Germany; it's dosed at a 1:2 ratio to racemic methadone.

Bingo. Thanks for reminding me. I used to annoy the staff at my clinic asking if they're ever going to get l- methadone

I know Spasmo-Proxyvon (propoxyphene, dicyclomine, and something else?) was one of the more popular OTC drugs of abuse in India, but after several years of legislative wrangling I think they may have actually switched it over to tramadol now.

Were you actually a Darvon enthusiast when it was on the market? I only took it once a long time ago and don't remember much in the way of particulars, whether I really felt anything or not. I remember enjoying this article from the early 70s that I read, entitled " 'I got a yen for that Darvon-N' : A pilot study on the use of propoxyphene napsylate in the treatment of heroin addiction."

Nope. I wish I could change my name though. I would change it to DarvonM or else Spasmo-Proxyvon

 

[JessFR]

I don't know maybe I missed something but I have no reason to suspect methadone. I don't even know if he's dead but I'm willing to suspend my disbelief based on what seems to be a consensus.

Methadone is implicated in the fewest opioid overdose deaths, not including bupe which began life as a schedule 5 narcotic because it's very hard to overdose on without combination w other drugs or alcohol.


And why not? If you have exposure to people who take it you're also likely to learn that it's a powerful drug ... I'm not ready to blame that blue liquid.

I wasn't even ready to accept that this was actual news, because I just wasn't. He was a cautious person. Evidently that's not enough anymore.

There's more information and resources to help addicts or just plain old experimenters than ever. And there's more death. F****** sucks

Methadone is VERY dangerous in people without much of an opioid dependence.

And with respect. Telepathic was not very cautious based on my many discussions with him. He took a bunch of extremely dangerous risks.

That's not meant as an insult or anything I took some very serious risks too when I was heavily using. But it is what it is.

I get what you're saying about not wanting to believe it though. I'm finding it hard to believe it's true too.

Telepathic passed away October 25th

I was told it was the COVID vaccine but I bet anything it was whatever these pills were

I don't know the specific drugs but I would bet very highly it was the drugs too.

Telepathic told me he'd had the 2nd vaccine back in September.

So.. What's more likely? Complications from a vaccine he'd taken a month earlier? Or an overdose from the drugs he took hours before he died?

Rip man, I hope your suffering has finally ended. I'm sorry I couldn't do more to help.

 

[PtahTek]

Methadone is VERY dangerous

Truth.
Super glad I got away from that as it was just too damn heavy or something... specially if one is a poly drug user. Fuck a soma. Talk about trinities and shit mthdn will take ya straight to ones god.
Fucking tragic.
Can we please stick around for a while. I will but I aint gonna be the last "man" standing here at bl... ya'll mfs need to up ya game a bit many of us need you here and now.
Got it gotdammit?

Please for the love of the bl community as a whole lets be as healthy as we can...?

 

[JessFR]

Truth.
Super glad I got away from that as it was just too damn heavy or something... specially if one is a poly drug user. Fuck a soma. Talk about trinities and shit mthdn will take ya straight to ones god.
Fucking tragic.
Can we please stick around for a while. I will but I aint gonna be the last "man" standing here at bl... ya'll mfs need to up ya game a bit many of us need you here and now.
Got it gotdammit?

Please for the love of the bl community as a whole lets be as healthy as we can...?

Yeah.

We've lost so many people lately.

It's so fucked up, people our age (20s and 30s on average) should not have this many people die around them.

I still have the same signature from caps death just 6 months ago. No point in removing it cause it seems like there's always someone to grieve for.

 

[darvocet21]

Methadone is VERY dangerous in people without much of an opioid dependence.

And with respect. Telepathic was not very cautious based on my many discussions with him. He took a bunch of extremely dangerous risks.

That's not meant as an insult or anything I took some very serious risks too when I was heavily using. But it is what it is.

I'm not suggesting methadone is a benign substance. My entire interaction with this fellow at the beginning of this thread left me with the distinct impression he was EXTREMELY cautious and well informed about the drug and its potential risks.

He raised some questions I didn't have answers to and I asked @negrogesic to lend his expertise. Then I found a web page of a methadone clinic in Jersey which talked about blue methadone specifically and other colors based on the strength of the concentrate used.

That's all I know.



Has anybody seen a death certificate? It's a matter of public record but takes a week or 2 at least to get filed with the county registrar.

What was the cause of death listed by the doc who pronounced him dead (likely the coroner if he had been dead for any length of time)? Did attending physician do a proper autopsy with a toxicology report. Unlikely, UNLESS there was someone there to advocate for that...

How about the family does anybody know them or have reached out to them are they even in the picture? How about a girlfriend, boyfriend, roommate? Has anyone met him in person?

I don't mean to sound callous or disrespectful. Many or most of you have known him and interacted with him and I am very very sorry.

I understand people's need to speculate and question and even moralize.

Methadone is VERY dangerous in people without much of an opioid dependence.

And with respect. Telepathic was not very cautious based on my many discussions with him. He took a bunch of extremely dangerous risks.

That's not meant as an insult or anything I took some very serious risks too when I was heavily using. But it is what it is.

I get what you're saying about not wanting to believe it though. I'm finding it hard to believe it's true too.



I don't know the specific drugs but I would bet very highly it was the drugs too.

Telepathic told me he'd had the 2nd vaccine back in September.

So.. What's more likely? Complications from a vaccine he'd taken a month earlier? Or an overdose from the drugs he took hours before he died?

Rip man, I hope your suffering has finally ended. I'm sorry I couldn't do more to help.

 

[JessFR]

He does have family yes, there are bluelighters who met him yes. And yes contact details for his family are known by at least some community members.

I can't recall any bluelighter ever having their death certificate released publically on the forum and certainly not any details from an autopsy and I don't think it would be appropriate to start. And any such information Imho should probably be assumed to be private without the consent of the family.

 

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

Hey Jess

 

[darvocet21]

He does have family yes, there are bluelighters who met him yes. And yes contact details for his family are known by at least some community members.

I can't recall any bluelighter ever having their death certificate released publically on the forum and certainly not any details from an autopsy and I don't think it would be appropriate to start. And any such information Imho should probably be assumed to be private without the consent of the family.

Of course I'm not suggesting at all that it be posted. I'm just asking if anybody seen it which obviously unless you're the immediate family and you were there it's unlikely is all I'm saying

 

[JessFR]

Of course I'm not suggesting at all that it be posted. I'm just asking if anybody seen it which obviously unless you're the immediate family and you were there it's unlikely is all I'm saying

Fair enough.

I don't know if anyone here has seen it. But much as I struggle with believing it and wish it weren't true. Yeah, he's died.

He was quite active on the discord server I run and his last communications are on the day he was said here to have died.

 

[Agentahna]

What! @Telepathic died? Good Lord, how did you hear this? We were just talking with him

The friend that introduced us told me. I sent you his obituary
He was very private on here so I'm not going to post his obituary openly but he passed the 25th

 

[darvocet21]

The friend that introduced us told me. I sent you his obituary
He was very private on here so I'm not going to post his obituary openly but he passed the 25th

I read it and I thank you for sending it to me. I remember someone said the name Joey last week. I think it was outlier. It just went over my head. I can be very stupid I don't have much common sense at all.

But reading that suddenly I was back in the 90s after another friend overdosed or was arrested or killed in a car crash. His family thought very highly of him. Families usually do

I have a niece who did a lot of those things went to Central America, also worked with animals. Now she's a chef and loving it. All I could think about was how she's feeling now just a few years away from that age and struggling really struggling in interpersonal relationships. She's lonely.

 

[Agentahna]

This is harm reduction not harm elimination and people are out here snatching souls man. I think "telepathetic" made a deal with the devil... $10 for a whole bottle of methadone? Something was up with the whole thing. He was doing very reckless things for a long time.. Who knows what this stuff really was...
He was in medical trials.. he was having issues from the COVID vaccine, there are a lot of different things it could be but I think this should be a lesson to anyone struggling with addiction. Because I think that played a big part in this.

 

[darvocet21]

This is harm reduction not harm elimination and people are out here snatching souls man. I think "telepathetic" made a deal with the devil... $10 for a whole bottle of methadone? Something was up with the whole thing. He was doing very reckless things for a long time.. Who knows what this stuff really was...
He was in medical trials.. he was having issues from the COVID vaccine, there are a lot of different things it could be but I think this should be a lesson to anyone struggling with addiction. Because I think that played a big part in this.

Yeah but I mean given that we just read at least I just read that obituary I'm not sure that this is the right time to be bringing up Satan. We have no idea what the market for Methadone is in New Jersey or wherever he lived on the East Coast. It's actually gone down here I was told a few months back when I happen to pass by a methadone clinic by the people outside the bottles cost $20. How many milligrams is that? Doesn't matter. Really. They said yeah it could be 40, 60, 80 or 100mg it's 20 bucks. I said fine! I'll take two and as I was getting out the money they said we don't have any take homes. And I thought of course they don't they're sitting outside the clinic still and they've been dosed all ready.

Time to get home time not to judge time to be grateful time to remember and time to

 

[JessFR]

I'm just gonna put this out there because I know there's been speculation about his death and I know it can be harder to process someone's death when you don't know what happened.

While I can't say for sure, I am virtually positive it was an overdose.

I spoke to him no more than maybe 8 hours or so before his death, and most of that would have been night time his time.

He was definitely using at the time, so there just doesn't seem to me to be any time for anything else to plausibly be the cause.

 

[Agentahna]

I'm just gonna put this out there because I know there's been speculation about his death and I know it can be harder to process someone's death when you don't know what happened.

While I can't say for sure, I am virtually positive it was an overdose.

I spoke to him no more than maybe 8 hours or so before his death, and most of that would have been night time his time.

He was definitely using at the time, so there just doesn't seem to me to be any time for anything else to plausibly be the cause.

I think it was an accidental overdose too

 

[Agentahna]

I mean $10? $10? That is too cheap to me
He thought it was counterfeit enough to make a thread about it. Something is off about this "methadone" to me. People take that shit every day he'd taken methadone before what if it WAS counterfeit just like this threads title says.

Some of the stuff is kinda spooky, like when he says he hopes he doesn't die.
I'd like to know what that stuff was. What was in his system at the time he died...