Can't feel shit with condoms

[Jabberwocky]

I took a friend of mine to a couple of dodgy brothels a couple of years back. He was in his sixties and he'd had a stroke. Was on a disability pension, so couldn't afford high class escorts. That's what he said anyway. Anyway, they'd often parade women in front of me while I was waiting for him. Never had the slightest interest. I remember once talking to this young Asian girl who sat beside me in the waiting room in an illegal happy ending place in the suburbs. She was a pretty girl. Smart, too. I couldn't help but ask her why she did what she did and I tried to convince her that there were other options... but I'm pretty sure I just ended up offending her. I get the impression she's not used to visitors questioning her life choices. I always felt conflicted about that conversation, like I was judging her or being elitist or something. But (at the same time) I feel sorry for her. Doesn't seem like any way to live.

The girl I spoke with was also Asian, very smart and in college. She was more receptive to our discussion. I guess stripping is fundamentally different than prostitution, though. She ultimately explained she was making very good money. It was a high end strip club, not some sleazy dirty joint. We probably talked for like 30 minutes while all her coworkers came up to me saying "heyyyy birthday boy!!!". Yeah, no. Get away. I don't get turned on or entertained by lap dances. That's just me, though.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Why?

You introduced the word "entitled" into the discussion. He didn't say it until you did... and your post wasn't very friendly. I get that he said "slinging a sausage down a hallway" and "lay the pipe", but he seemed to genuinely be frustrated and trying to find a solution...

Get over it.

You aren't entitled to sex and you certainly aren't entitled to enjoyable sex.

Nobody had said entitled until that point and he never implied that he was entitled until you introduced the word. If you look back, it's pretty clear he was saying he thinks he deserves enjoyable sex.

Ehh, okay. I see where you are coming from. I'm not a misogynist though, and do care about the other girls' experience with me. Horses for courses ...

Entitled to sex without consent is rape. Being entitled to unprotected sex without consent is rape. There is zero indication in this thread that he was advocating rape. I think you introduced a word to the conversation that he didn't really understand.

Your introduction of the word implied rape. At that point he hadn't implied or suggested any such thing.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I don't get turned on or entertained by lap dances. That's just me, though.

It's not just you. I took a trip to Sydney a couple of years back and stayed at Southern Cross. Had never been to a strip club so me and the missus thought we might as well make a holiday out of it. The show did absolutely nothing for me. I thought it was gross, honestly. The stripper (in the middle of her set) actually said to me, frustrated, "this is a vagina!" because she could tell that I was utterly disinterested. I don't get why guys like strip clubs. It's totally alien to me. I'm happy to have random sex with people I don't know (male or female) but I have zero interest in throwing money at some chick on stage... and zero interest in fucking a prostitute. I don't judge people who are into that sort of thing. It's just not for me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's not just you. I took a trip to Sydney a couple of years back and stayed at Southern Cross. Had never been to a strip club so me and the missus thought we might as well make a holiday out of it. The show did absolutely nothing for me. I thought it was gross, honestly. The stripper (in the middle of her set) actually said to me, frustrated, "this is a vagina!" because she could tell that I was utterly disinterested. I don't get why guys like strip clubs. It's totally alien to me. I'm happy to have random sex with people I don't know (male or female) but I have zero interest in throwing money at some chick on stage... and zero interest in fucking a prostitute. I don't judge people who are into that sort of thing. It's just not for me.

strip clubs/ lap dances are like someone waving a bag of heroin in front of me... YOU WANT THIS BABY???

get the fuck away from me and why would I throw money at you for something I will never get

jesus christ if you like looking at semi-nude women that much just go on the internet

also, if you've ever been to a dirty, dark, smelly hole-in-the-wall strip club.... you know what I mean when I say it's gross and degrading to everyone involved (the high end ones are a little different but I'm equally disinterested in them)

brothels are different, equally dirty, but at least I feel satisfied at the end and feel like I didn't waste my money

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Ain't strippers out of jobs since covid? Bad career move lol. Don't think camming will make even close.

I know porn stars are still at it. Probably where all the strippers went. Or most.

 

[JessFR]

You introduced the word "entitled" into the discussion. He didn't say it until you did... and your post wasn't very friendly. I get that he said "slinging a sausage down a hallway" and "lay the pipe", but he seemed to genuinely be frustrated and trying to find a solution...



Nobody had said entitled until that point and he never implied that he was entitled until you introduced the word. If you look back, it's pretty clear he was saying he thinks he deserves enjoyable sex.



Entitled to sex without consent is rape. Being entitled to unprotected sex without consent is rape. There is zero indication in this thread that he was advocating rape. I think you introduced a word to the conversation that he didn't really understand.

Your introduction of the word implied rape. At that point he hadn't implied or suggested any such thing.

That I used the word entitled first is irrelevant, he didn't deny feeling entitled to sex, he confirmed he did feel that way. That I thought he seemed to think he was entitled, and turned out to be right, doesn't change anything.

You're right... I said he wasn't entitled to sex because I got a bad vibe from what he was saying, I said he wasn't entitled to sex because I got the impression he was acting like he thought he was. At the time, before he replied you could argue that there was no direct evidence he felt that way.

But he didn't then say that he didn't think that and try and explain where he was coming from, he said he DID feel entitled to sex, and then went on a sexist rant against me for disagreeing with him that had to be deleted by the mods.

It really seems crazy to me that you can argue "I don't think he felt entitled to sex" when I said "you're not entitled to sex" and his response was literally "yes I am".

 

[birdup.snaildown]

most men don’t actually view sex workers as people

former camgirl here lol, no I won’t Skype you

That explains it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

THIS!!

Like most men don’t actually view sex workers as people.

And that’s why I have the viewpoints I do (former camgirl here lol, no I won’t Skype you).

@JessFR

I've met A LOT of women through dating sites who direct me to their cam page, onlyfans or whatever..........

I don't think you can completely blame toxic, dirty, horny men entirely on themselves.

I am NOT assuming or judging anything about you, but how can you expect all men to act cordially when you're essentially playing with their instincts and expect them to not act on them?

I'm probably going to get some heat for this opinion, but if you're showing off you're body for profit how can you not expect a lot of men to treat you like a product??? That is essentially what you are offering!!!!!

please don't hate me, I'm just thinking logically

 

[JessFR]

THIS!!

Like most men don’t actually view sex workers as people.

And that’s why I have the viewpoints I do (former camgirl here lol, no I won’t Skype you).

I don't think most men don't view sex workers as people. Or at least I sure as hell hope that's not the case. I do think there's a large number of men who use prostitutes who think that though. Not all, but too many.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

That I used the word entitled first is irrelevant

Calling someone a rape advocate on a whim because you get a bad vibe from them isn't irrelevant...

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Of course you would say something like that

Of course you would make a negative blanket statement about men.

 

[JessFR]

That explains it.

Uhhh.. Yeah? Sex workers and former sex workers may be particularly hostile towards people who prey on sex workers. I don't think that's any surprise.

Calling someone a rape advocate on a whim because you get a bad vibe from them isn't irrelevant...

It is when the argument is "they don't think they're entitled to sex" and the evidence that they DO think that is that they outright admitted that they did.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Uhhh.. Yeah? Sex workers and former sex workers may be particularly hostile towards people who prey on sex workers. I don't think that's any surprise.

Not a surprise. That's why I said it explains a lot. Sex workers don't get a balanced view of men because most men don't use sex workers and the ones who do are more likely to have issues when it comes to women.

It is when the argument is "they don't think they're entitled to sex" and the evidence that they DO think that is that they outright admitted that they did.

It may be irrelevant to them (again, pretty sure he was saying he deserved sex and was not advocating rape) but it isn't irrelevant to you.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I never said all men

I never said ALL like I am being accused of.

I didn't say you said all men. You made a blanket statement about the majority of men.

Like most men don’t actually view sex workers as people.

In my experience it is at least a large number.

 

[JessFR]

@JessFR

I've met A LOT of women through dating sites who direct me to their cam page, onlyfans or whatever..........

I don't think you can completely blame toxic, dirty, horny men entirely on themselves.

I am NOT assuming or judging anything about you, but how can you expect all men to act cordially when you're essentially playing with their instincts and expect them to not act on them?

I'm probably going to get some heat for this opinion, but if you're showing off you're body for profit how can you not expect a lot of men to treat you like a product??? That is essentially what you are offering!!!!!

please don't hate me, I'm just thinking logically

I think you're referring to Audiobook with this reply.
But for me personally. I never went out to find men to entice into paying me for sex, they would find me and sometimes spend up to an hour trying to talk me into having sex with them for money. Basically, scumbags.

I would never have prostituted myself if there weren't men who basically look for desperate women to proposition.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Ok, so I never did that on actual dating sites.

I had a Twitter where it was apparent I was a camgirl and there was no illusion of any relationship.

A relationship and a business transaction are two different things.

A relationship I have with a guy is special because I am choosing to be with him because I actually like him and enjoy his company.

Camming at the end of the day is a business transaction, men might get attached but they also *want* the attention of someone who they would not get it from normally.

They want your attention, they go to a cam site, and they pay you for it.

Again I never PMed links on dating sites.

It’s not selling yourself, it’s selling a service.

If you think that I don’t deserve respect because I don’t wish to PM with every horney guy on the internet for free (and there are a fuck ton out there) then have a wonderful day lol.

I don’t hate you but I disagree with the way you look at it.

Let's have an intelligent discussion.

I've never watched cam girls because it doesn't do anything for me. I can assume, as a man, that other men like cam girls because it's more interactive than porn.

It's not selling yourself? It's selling a service? It's both.

I did NOT say you do not deserve respect. Absolutely NOT.

I did NOT say you need to interact with every horny guy looking at your cam.

I am saying its unreasonable to think men don't want to interact with you on a cam (weather they are creepy or not). That's the whole point. It's a sexual turn on to be talking to a live, nude woman versus regular porn. It's psychological.

My point is it's unreasonable to think they aren't going to do that. That's the entire point of live cams... live communication. If men couldn't chat with cam girls it would literally just be regular porn. That's what some guys like, that's what they pay for and that's what they expect.

They pay to see a nude woman and have the ability to message her live. That's the product/service. Assuming otherwise is folly.

I am not speaking of disrespect or anything else. Economics and logic of a specific service.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

from my perspective

Sure, but your perspective is as limited as mine. From my perspective, most men I know are disinterested in sex workers but certainly don't regard them as non-people. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by this?

I don't know how much cam girls charge. I have zero interest in that sort of thing, but I imagine it's pretty costly. In order to justify that cost, I guess the person paying you wants you to do whatever they ask. Not sure if that means they don't feel guilty about it afterwards or that they think you aren't a person worthy of respect.

Men are driven by their animal instincts, but there is also the post-sex brain that isn't overflowing with hormones. You don't get to see that bit when you do a cam show, because they probably log off when they've finished.

I don't know. I'm obviously not an expert on this stuff, but I know a lot of men and my perspective is wildly different than yours. Most men have good hearts and respect women. If that's not your experience, maybe I'm wrong... but (then again) maybe you are?

You appear to have quite a cynical view of the opposite sex, which is honestly to be expected - I think - if you sell your body for cash. No offense.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I never went out to find men to entice into paying me for sex, they would find me and sometimes spend up to an hour trying to talk me into having sex with them for money. Basically, scumbags.

I would never have prostituted myself if there weren't men who basically look for desperate women to proposition.

I'm starting to understand why you're sensitive on this issue.

One thing I don't understand is: why talk to them for an hour?
Why not just say no and move on?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was talking about men who want to PM wanting one on one attention without paying.

I guess we're talking about two different things, sorry, maybe I misunderstood.

No pay? No play? simple concept

And tbh, just because someone is being nice to you does not mean they are selling themselves to you.

Obviously.... but if you're selling a cam service that is not being nice, it's offering a paid service? Never argued otherwise.

Never said you need to be nice to non-paying customers. Personally, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves.

And that’s fine that you don’t personally go on cam sites. I really don’t care, it’s not your thing. An actual relationship or maybe free casual sex is (IDK you well enough to say which so pls don’t yell at me). That’s cool.

I like both but more prone to actual relationships. I don't really see how this pertains to the conversation, though. Has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I do think sex work can give you a negative view of men.

So can being sexually assaulted.

It is what it is.

I also dislike most people in general so...there you are.

And tbh, it’s selling a service, not your body.

I still have my body.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

You're selling your body as an image, not your soul or real intimate interaction.

Men would not watch your cam if you didn't show your body.