Bluelight Stall at Raves - Your thoughts/assistance please

[Finn]

Temptress,
You're on fire grrrrl! You are absolutely oozing with initiative

however.......
I reckon we might be pushing it a bit to get organised in time for Earthdance especially if we want to do it properly.
I suggest we wait until we receive Haste's minutes of the Melbourne meeting, convene a meeting of interested Sydney and W'gong Bluelighters and then develop an action plan in keeping with the objectives, strategies etc. agreed upon at the Melbourne meeting.
This way we won't waste time and energy reinventing the wheel and we'll be able to achieve bigger and better things because we'll be working together rather than in isolation.
I do think it would be a good idea to continue to brainstorm a bit here first but. You know, work out what skills, resources, contacts etc we have and incorporate this information into discussions at the Melbourne meeting. We could even do a s.w.o.t. analysis here first.
This would allow all bluelighters to provide their input and assist us to develop appropriate goals and objectives.
Hmmmmmm. Thoughts? suggestions?
Finn

 

[haste]

Ok I have provided an outline of the agenda of the Melbourne meeting - if anyone has any suggestion/changes or something I have missed please let me know. I will be taking a copy of this thread aswell so that all issue's raised here are discussed!
COMMITTEE MEETING – 4/10/00
AGENDA
1. Project Direction/Objective: The discussion of the project’s aims, objectives and direction – Mission Statement – i.e., who are and what are our intentions etc etc
2. Services Provided: What service will Bluelight provide? I.e. Brochures, Pill Testing etc etc. This will also include looking into the legalities of each service
3. Networking: Bluelight’s greatest problem initially will be gaining credibility – we must consider networking with other services – i.e., Ravesafe
4. Contacts: We need to build a database of contacts within the area we are aiming to make an impact on. For example, establishing contacts within rave crews. From this will know what raves we focus on and therefore effective timelines can be negotiated
5. Costs/Materials/Equipment: We need to look into the cost’s that might be associated in setting up a stall, brochures etc.
6. Project Workers: We need to organize ourselves that people have defined rolls. Teaming people up to look into specific issues etc. We need to look professional to be taken seriously.
7. Misc.: Anything else that needs to be discussed
8. Next Meeting: Setting a date and time for the next meeting
I hate to sound all formal, but we need to look organised and professional to be taken seriously. Remember we will be up against the attitude that we are drug fucked ravers - so lets prove them wrong.
[This message has been edited by haste (edited 28 September 2000).]

 

[Finn]

Way to go Haste

Two big thumbs up!
Finn

 

[Temptress]

Ok guys..I believe we have great working point here and chance to show we are serious about this.
Luci, from EnergyEmperors, has contacted me about the email. She raises a few concerns which gives us an indication of what issues to organise first before we contact more promoters.
The email is as follows:
(i'm sure they won't mind me posting this as it allows us to focus on what is important to achieve our goals)
Regarding your plan to make the scene safe - I'm extremely interested. I very strongly be lieve in being responsible as we possible can to destroy this dance music is evil myth that's going on.
I also don't want to be the one to have to ring someone's parents to give them the bad news - and it's hardly a good energy for a party.
At the moment we're doing Psychology at Tantra in Oxford St on wednesdays - I don't think it would be appropriate here as it tends to be a slightly older and more intelligent (one pill not 10) crowd. I also don't think Tantra would be very happy about it.
However - for the next Chemistry I would be very interested. We're hoping this will be Nov 18th though don't have a venue yet. We'd also like to know a little bit more about the professionalism of the people running it - if it's likely to draw bad attention to o ur parties or if you have spoken to the council about what you're up to - the age of the
people helping out with giving info etc. Are testing kits legal here?? I think not. Is this something you're looking into?
Keep in touch.
xxx
luci
I'm going to compose an email addressing concerns of these issues based on facts we have so far and refer them to the DanceSafe url. Perhaps we ca n organise a Sydney meeting with Luci, Pan and Andy?
Ill post the email here so all know what has been addressed and can suggest anything ive missed.
So, sydney ppl who are serious, please, let us get organised huh?
If these BL's who said they were interested could verify their intents and what they can do..we will be on our way to a good start.
Candyflip, Finn, Boikah, mona, Mr Nice Guy, ami, XSI11V, fat tony....please email as to what is going on...
Im feeling pretty motivated at the moment and so I hope to get the ball rolling..anyone else to help me push??
BTW the issue on ages is something I dont have facts on...we need to organise this so I can address it in the email.
Ill reply to let them know that we're organising all the facts and info an d we can email when we have it collated.
Can someone from actual Sydney contact the council on these views?? Or is this a bit early to consider?? The fact we may have the ability to hold a stall on Nov. 18th means we need to get organised asap. I'll dedicate what time I have but this is definately a group effort.
Finn..I think your right..do you think Nov. 18th is too soon??? I think we could make it. I think we (with Haste's permission) could use his agenda as a guide for our own meeting. WHile his minutes are helpful..I dont think its necessary to wait..as we are in different states, we may deal with different laws and guidelines (and costs) so we have to make an effort for ourselves.
Haste, great work...I'll fwd u a copy of the email...
Anyone else got any info/issues/opinions/suggestions/advice??§
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Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress

[This message has been edited by Temptress (edited 29 September 2000).]

 

[BigfootDragon]

Temptress, how could you forget me? you know i'm willing to help.
a meeting between sydney/wollongong folks would be a good idea. and possibly with the chemistry guys as well, if we're looking at targeting that as a potential.
take care all,
BigfootDragon.

 

[yaytima]

Temptress et al.....
i'm in sydney and would love to get involved in this. what can i do? as far as time is concerned my work is really flexible, plus they know my clubbing lifestyle so it wouldn't be a prob for me to duck out and do stuff for this......
count me in!!!
a.
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~dance as if no-one is watching~

 

[Temptress]

Hey guys, back again.
Just sent everyone at energyemperors a reply to their email.
Here 'tis:
Hello again,
Thankyou for your prompt response. It's great to hear (but of no surprise) that you are concerned with the safety of your punters.
In regards to your concerns, I urge you to read the thread in bluelight I included in my previous email. It contains all discussion on the topic by Bluelighters involved or planning to be involved.
As we are just getting started, many things have not been fully investigated yet. But I assure you that all legal and media issues will be discussed and investigated.
We are doing so by consulting external organisations such as RaveSafe, DanceSafe (the link is down the bottom) and the like. We plan to obtain further advice of legalities and precedence before any actions are carried out. The DanceSafe website holds a wealth of information, and please note that actual contact between testers and pills is avoided completely.
As for the testers themselves they are not illegal at all and users are not liable for their possession, infact, Chemical Generation and The Peak have kindly offered to donate all testers required to test for free. They have also offered to us a deal if we sell testers for them that we will receive a donation for such sales to help keep this thing afloat. (This could perhaps be used for printing costs of flyers etc)
In regards to the concerns of age, I am unsure of the ages of all Bluelighters willing to help but am investigating this currently. When I find out I will contact you. Of course, we will not ask you to allow entry to any underage volunteers nor will we try. We wish to carry this out as legal as possible so as to not tarnish the scene any further than it has suffered in the past.
We do not plan to threaten you, as the promoter in any way. You present us with events which we so love to attend and show gratitude for that.
In fact, a number of Bluelighters attended the last Chemistry, including myself where I met Pan (not sure if you remember me, Pan, I accidently sconed you with the pool cue) and found him to be a great guy who is concerned with providing a good event with safety in mind.
On that note, I was also the girl who notified you of the seemingly OD'd guy in the chill out. I'm glad to hear he was OK. Perhaps we could consult St Johns or another like organisiton about a medical presence alongside the Bluelight stall? Or have at least 1 Bluelighter with first aid certificates..though this may be difficult and require some investigation.
We are also discussing the need for a disclaimer (perhaps similar to those accompanying testers) to indemnify all of us should anything occur. This is also included in the thread.
For further info the thread explains best and is updated almost everyday. This would be a good source to check in addition to my emails.
I'd also like to address your concern for our professionalism. I assure you we plan to conduct this as professional as possible. It is after all a service which carries certain responsibilities.
If you have any information which you think may be of value to us please post it in the thread or email me (on this account please, I check this one).
I will contact you soon as to any updates or concerns and feel free to return the favour.
If this is not fully organised by the time Chemistry is on again, and your still interested, we may be able to just supply awareness information and harm reduction flyers until everything is set up properly.
Again, thankyou for your interest in our plight for awareness.
On behalf of Bluelight,
Jenna
[Temptress]
[email protected]
www.dancesafe.org/onsite.html www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum10/HTML/002537.html
I know its a bit long, but i think it addresses most of their concerns expressed in the email.
Any thoughts/criticism/opinion/ideas?
• We need to get a list of Sydney ppl that are serious about helping out, no matter how little, we all have our commitments. Bluelight has done a lot for us and now would be a great time to show our appreciation if you can help.
• Has anyone any more information on the legal side of things?? Perhaps contact Sydney council and ask them about their stance on the idea? Please post if u can help with any of these.
• Candyflip, do you know of any liabilities a promoter maybe exposed to?? What they can do to indemnifie themselves? (like a disclaimer or something)
• I'll need to contact all sydney ppl who are serious..age factor is of importance (legalwise) those who aren't legal..you can still help in many other ways.
• And lastly, as boikah has suggested, perhaps we could get medical presence somehow? Even if tis BL with first aid certificates or something? (Does anybody else have one?)
• yaytima, any of the above or anything you feel you could do to help is great. Calls to the Sydney area would be of great assistance as Im in the Gong and it costs a bit. Though email is good.
Over and out.
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Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress
âˆ*
[This message has been edited by Temptress (edited 29 September 2000).]

 

[haste]

Temptress - By all means use the agenda I have typed up and organise a meeting in Sydney - as stated, laws in different states may differ so this is something that you will have to look into.
Please don't feel compeled to have this up and running ASAP - take your time and get organised. Professionalism is the key here - hold your first meeting and develop a committee of project workers. We need as a group to develop a mission statement - a reason for being if you wish.
We are dealing with a sensitive issue here - concerning people's health, and therefore have a duty of care. We must know all leagalities before we proceed - we have to cover ourselves from all possible backlashes. Not only is testing an issue, but also the information we give out, how and what we say - these sorts of issues are most important. People will often look for a scapegoat when things go wrong - we must be in a position that nothing can be brought back on Bluelight. You must also consider that rave crews will also have the concern that something might come back and bite them. So they will be very judgemental when it comes to supportiung us aswell - remembering in the end that they are a business who will protect themselves.
Our biggest hurdle will be gaining credibility - but if we organise ourselves in a professional manner, gain support of other services, credibility will come with time. See if you can organise people to canvass other Youth Services and Philanthropic organisations such as the Salvation Army. I will be doing the same here in Melbourne once we establish our mission statement - the quickest way to gain credibility is to have the backing of services that already have credibility. See if there are any Youth Services dealing with drug issues - such as needle exchange programs etc - you'll find that through careful negotiation that many will be willing to offer support in one way or another.
I think your first step is to organise a meeting in Sydney - and going by this thread you have Bluelighters who are passionate about this. Keep up your contact with EnergyEmperors, it's a foot in the door. But just be careful - don't accept an offer to set up a stall unless you are fully confident that you have covered all bases.
Temptress you are doing a wonderful job - keep it up!!!!!!

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Careful with that axe Eugene....

 

[Finn]

Agreed Haste, Temptress is doing a wonderful job

Okay ....
1. I'm 32 (oooooooh!).
2. I have a first aid certificate.
3. I know a couple of people who are drug
and alcohol workers who may be willing to
get involved. I'll talk to them.
4. I'm happy to make lots of phone calls.
5. I'll contact Paul Dillon from the D&ARC
(Temptress is it okay if I borrow bits
from your e-mail to energy emperors?
6. I reckon we should have a Sydney meeting
ASAP.
7. I'll talk to Smurf about whether he's
interested.
8. Does anyone know whether Pinger is
interested?
9. When does Mona get back from Perth? It
would be good to hear her thoughts/ideas.
10. I'm pretty sure we can be organised in
time for the next Chemistry party.
11. I have a friend who is a lawyer. I'll
give her a call and ask her what she
knows about the legal situation.
12. Do W'gong bluelighters mind coming to
Sydney for the meeting?
Hmmmm... I think that's about it. I think passion and enthusiasm will make all the difference here. Sure what we want to do will be difficult but it is worth fighting for. If we can do ANYTHING to assist people taking e to become more educated about the risks and benefits associated with mdxx then it will all be worth it.

Finn

Temptress, (and other Sydney bluelighters)
Do you have AOL instant messenger? It's free.
www.aol.com.au/site/website/aolproducts/aim/index.html
We can set up a private chat room which will allow us to organise things without having to meet up all the time.

 

[Temptress]

Thanks guys.
Well, Finn thanks heaps for your support.
I agree that a meeting should be set up soon. Any dates preferable? Perhaps we can get your lawyer friend to accompany us so we can discuss everything on the spot without constant relays?? And perhaps any interested drug/alcohol workers can attend too. Even for an hour or so to discuss relevant issues.
Good idea asking Smurf, Pinger and mona for support. They have an absolute goldmine of knowledge we could use.
So...essential, dates for a meeting.
Finn, I dont have AOL messenger, in fact I dont even have the internet at home (uni and Av's place at the momo), but I hope to fix that prob soon. When i do, ill get it...itd be a lot easier..
Email with anything in the meantime please.
And yeah, use the email if u like.
Chat soon aye? P.s. what's your icq no???
------------------
Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress
∞

 

[BigfootDragon]

i'd be happy to get to sydney for a meeting.
Temptress' suggestion about your lawyer friend being there is probably a good one if its possible Finn.
i don't have aol instant messanger, though i've tried to get it a few times and i keep getting errors while registering, so stuff it, hehe. but i have icq if you and the other sydney/wollongong people wanted to chat on there (5559712 for me).
good thread this

hope it comes to reality.
take care all

Bigfoot Dragon

 

[commuter]

Johnboy:
As you said, something along the lines of - advising against a wafer thin chick from taking a 200+ milligram pill..
Reminds me of a time when this girl i knew, who was like 16 and barely 5" tall, thiner than a tin sheet dropped a whole yellow rolex from earlier this year (one of the strongest pills in perth at the time)..
She sat on the same step for 4 hours and just glared into space her friends taking turns to look after her!
Just another reason why people need to be educated about what they are taking..
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So if you feel it by your speakers get near it, made for those who wanna hear it, the .. Starkiller!

 

[k2436]

Excuse my spelling and any excessive ranting, I am still recovering from last night. However, I just stumbled across this idea and I think its fantastic. Here's a logo for you, "we care, coz no one else will." Ah... a bit too forward? hmm..... perhaps, "BL: Tomorrows understanding society, today." A bit long? geez.... how about, "true blue ravers." Or, "BL: A ravers safety net." "BL: For raves, by ravers." Um... i dunno.....
So far the efforts placed into this project seem very professional. Are pill testers or the use/sale of pill testers totally legal? If so then you really dont have much of a problem. You would need some kind of disclaimer like "We will not be held responsible for the application of any information gathered from this stall, we are not medical practicianors. For medical advice go see your doctor." ect ect I wouldnt have a clue about the legal issues involved, but you dont have to test drugs urself do u? You could just sell the drug testers, and provide information on how to use/understand the testers properly. That way you dont have to comment on the drugs but rather the tester, might be a few legal loopholes if u do that. Like, "the tester shows this to be..." or "... it has been observed that you may not want to take 4 whole pill for your first time, or even a whole pill. Half seems a better option, though the choice is yours....perhaps you would prefer a quarter. Each person is effected differently by drugs, so we are not able to specify how much you are able to handle. Though safety first...."
With the brochures, you could have a seperate brochure for every tester result. There's heaps of scientific/medical institutions providing information on various drugs which all have webpages so u can contact them for information/recent studies and perhaps get their backing in some way, even if its just "this information is based on da da da approved scientific results" or perhaps you could help them conduct their studies, like annonymous survays or something (could get some extra money flowing in). If you include information from their studies in the brochure, you will get more credibility (and its not just hersay). You know like effects, time span, precautions, ect Although dont give any instructional advice, as that can been seen as pro-drug taking and/or used against u in court. Just give like generalisations and make sure they all hold a disclaimer of some kind at the bottom of each page, and are backed up by some kind of medical/ scientific research. You should give the finalised pamphlet to a lawyer for approval. Perhaps in the long run you could get a scientific organisation to do research on ur behalf, a lot of these places on the web r like non-profit also and maybe some arrangement can be made. Nothing major, just like general stuff so u have scientific backup, but like there would be general stuff done already I think that you can use. Or after a period of time u may need more specific experimentation done based on the rave environment. You know like on water consumption per hour in various heat levels/drug doses. But you have to make sure the disclaimers are visible and not hidden from view. In the extreme, if you are testing urself, you could get each client to sign a contract so that you are safe from legal issues. As an example, someone comes upto you and says they got X result. So you give them the pamphlet that relates to that and answer any questions as best you can. Although a lot of pamphlets would be taken so perhaps a $1 donation per pamphlet. Umm.... or you could just skip the scientific research and ask nicely if Chemical Generaltion is able to provide comprehansive information on the various test results, thus you will only be the middle man so to speak and less viable should legal complications occur. But I doubt they will, and if it does happen then our legal system is far more flexible and honorable then the USA's system so I doubt that you would go down for it.
Also a non-profit organisation doesnt mean that you cannot sell things other then the testers, it just means that all profits go back into the organisation and cover stuff like costs and then any excess cash would have to go into Bluelight. I think the rule is that the money stays within the organisation. Um, dont quote me on that one, I am recovering.... I can find out later....So anyway, you would be able to sell shirts, stickers, posters, well anything really... I am thinking that perhaps you can also give instructions in the brochures about what to take for the come down, this can most likely be gained off the scientific community (so its scientificall approved/accurate). Just to see the damage the drugs actually has, and what substances helps to reduce that damage. Then you can sell those minerals/suppliments/vitimins ect. Of coarse you wont be able to say that it actually stops all damage or give any guarentee. Just that scientific experimentation shows... blah blah blah blah blah. Or that this is observed to help out....
And would you be able to register as a business? That way you would have access to like the warhouses and stuff to pick up goods for sale. I wouldnt have a clue if u could or the processes involved, but over all it would help you out. Might even offer you some legal advantages. I think it would offer you more credibility. Perhaps you could get boxes and boxes of cheap whippits

sorry... just love those things.....
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"Your understanding of life extends as far as the questions your prepared to ask."

 

[Myster E]

How about just maybe starting off handing out flyers at raves,that this site exhists & has a pill report post.We have started ringing our dealer a nite before pickup & finding out what pills he has available,then checking out any local reports on that pill.This isn't a sure way of getting a good pill,but it has narrowed down our chances of getting a shit pill.There are heaps of peakers that have never even heard of Bluelight,out there!!!!
Another suggestion is,is there anyway of breaking down a test kit?
So maybe people can buy a small test kit at the raves that can test just 1 or 2 pills & cost about $5 or $10 dollars to purchase? Then once people become more aware of testers they might buy the larger kit for home.But i suppose the down side to that idea is that they have already paid for the pill,so they would more than likely pop it regardless of how it tests.
I think maybe just try to let people know that there is an internet site that has nearly everything you need to know about E's & realated drugs.This may not be a good idea,but you got to start somewhere.

 

[atomica]

i think flyers is a good part of a larger project.. i think testing onsite is a great idea. a lot of pill aquisition goes on at parties.. and onsite testing available means that everyone has the ability to avoid harmful chemicals. hopefully everyone who sees the pill test in action will go out and buy their own testkit, but sometimes, with passout times etc there is still a need for something internal.. id like to see onsite testing, test kits for sale, and flyers and hopefully stickers or something catchy and a lil less dry than the info flyers.. something to get ppl interested in the first place (tho i think the testing will do that).
a thought for the ppl looking into the legalities... here's an issue. when testing, we will not go "oh thats a good pill" or anything like that.. we keep it neutral and just tell em the test result and what it may mean. BUT what about something like the yin-yangs we got before. tested orange. very unpleasant on 1/4. possible pma or some similar chemical. could be fatal at larger doses or mixed cuz we dont know what it is. NOW a majority of ppl will eat a pill that tests orange. we did (in very small amts) and we are by no means ill educated or into getting fukked up.
what do you say to someone who walks up holding a pill that looks identical to a pill you KNOW to be bad but tests orange. some would say we just say the usual routine of what an orange reaction may mean and leave it to them to decide, because you have to be objective.
i am uncomfortable with that. i would feel very compelled to say "that pill matches the description of a pill that had these unpleasant effects, contents are unknown and possibly very harmful etc"
what if you are wrong and its a different pill that looks very similar (eg. dodgy cks) what if that kid wastes a good pill and blames us?
what if we *dont* warn them that its a dodgy pill and then they take it n something bad happens, when we had *admittedly subjective* knowledge that could have helped them?
what about these really gray area situations? what is the legality and what is the morality. i tend to go by the least harm done approach, but that might not be legal and may in some circumstances lead us into hot water. where is the middle ground and what do we say?
also, with regard to the post regarding scientific info on flyers. we need to be really careful here. there is very often conflicting results in experiments, and we cant just report the ones we like to hear. whilst i'm all for backing up our claims with science, we need to be really careful in the wording, and what we choose to include.
what about the results pertaining to prozac as a postload? how are all these kids going to get their hands on prozac, which is a prescription drug? should we be encouraging them to try? but are we neglect if we dont give them that info? there havent been that many experiments on it, what if they're wrong? i post load w/ prozac every time i roll, and i give it to those around me too, if i can and they want it. but thats me the person, not me the bluelight rep standing behind a stall.
we are walking into really gray areas here. we should be thinking of all these type of scenarios and maybe writing a list of things for those checking into legalities. better to try and think of them early than doing it when we're trying to create the flyer.
everyone get yr thinking hats on!

smilez!

 

[k2436]

Yeah there are a lot of grey areas... even with scientific research, but like I meant more the common knowledge side. Coz a lot of people are raves have no idea what a pill does to them, or what effects to expect.They pop coz its the thing to do. I didnt mean to like go into any great details, just a broad outline of what to expect with each test result, and the do's/donts and how to handle a bad trip ect.

 

[k2436]

Haste.... You may want to talk about your target audience also. What groups of people do u expect to use the service? It will most likely be non-regular users with little if any knowledge about drugs, perhaps even first time users who need some reasurance that things will turn out ok. How will you acomidate to their needs? I'd say that a majority of people who come to the stall will fall into this catagory so you have to take this fact into consideration. Its not enough just promoting Bluelight and giving tests, coz these people will have no idea what an e is made up of let alone know what the chemicals will do. They just want to know if they should drop it or not.... How will you accomidate their needs? Coz these are the people who need the most help, which is why the stall is there. You cant assume they know anything, so u need to be able to give them the information they lack. They are the reason the stall will be there after all.

 

[haste]

atomica - you have posed very interesting scenarios, and as I discussed with you at the BBQ - these sorts of issues are what we need to discuss in detail. We need discuss all possible scenarios that we may come across and how and to what extent do we deal with it. I understand that the hardest thing to do is not try and get emmotionally/personally involved in a situation - but we must also consider protecting ourselves and Bluelight from bad publicity or even law suits. In most cases it would be your word against their's, so nothing really to worry about - but still better to stick to side of caution and work these things out before hand.
k2436 - you also raise very interesting questions aswell and something that I will bring up in the meeting. New to the scene, old to the scene - makes no difference to me - people have be in the scene for many years and still have no idea about what they are ingesting.
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Careful with that axe Eugene....

 

[atomica]

yeah i remember talking to a girl who took loads of pills all the time, and her telling me "the ones i like best are the ones with speed and coke and heroin mixed in them" i'd laugh if it wasnt so serious.
this should also be about *changing* ppls perceptions, even the hardcore users n abusers.

 

[Bester]

ok now dont FORGET us brissy people... we have a quite tight knit BL community up here.. and im pretty sure we all would like to help out.... we may have small numbers... but if you southern states get organised... we will start it up here....
at this very moment im doing abit of work on photoshop to whip up a quick business card/advert for bluelight, and were gonna get them printed up, and were gonna hand them out @ our next BIG rave, which is Creation 8 (Oct 14th), i will hand them out in the chillout room, on the street and if i got some left, ill try and hand them out as everyone is leaving...
so keep us northern state brothers posted on what the status is...
regards
bester.