Bluelight Stall at Raves - Your thoughts/assistance please

[candyflip]

I suggest, from the Testing side, that you let The Peak! and Chemical Generation worry about the legal aspects (and we've been thinking about it a very long time, believe me). After all, we'll be the ones providing the testing solution.
You guys manning a Bluelight stall will have NO legal issues to deal with initially (before the Testing starts). We'll get the facts and formulate the policy well before we start that side of things, fear not.
As to the selling of the testers themselves, they are not AT ALL illegal and carry no risk of legal action against you, before during, or after the event. Again, that liability rests with the maker, Chemical Generation, so let them sort that one out.
The Bluelighters concern for now (if I may) should be to get organised to actually have a place to run all this stuff. As Boikah quite rightly points out, we need to crawl before we walk here guys...
exciting, isn't it?!

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The latest Event info, Pill Tests and Club Listings, online: http://www.the-peak.com.au

 

[Temptress]

guys I'm more than willing to help design anything from flyers to banners to safe raving material....also stall holding pill testing whatever required whenever I can....
oh yeah and I'm from Wollongong/Sydney so maybe we can organise this soon??
I'm going to transmission and am thinking perhaps we could start something there???
even if it is just flyers and banners????
I'm not sure exactly how much I can help but will when possible...c'mon....sydneysiders..
RALLY UP!
I think the stall holding and the testing are a great Idea and if we sell the testers helps BL stay afloat! a donation jar is great too.
Maybe in the long run this could help bl on a larger scale?
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Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress

 

[johnboy]

to all the people worried about the legal side of this:
what is the most litagatious (most likely to sue) country in the world?
what country is doing pill testing in almost every state without legal problems?
the answer to both these questions is the U.S. of A.
food for thought?
crawl before we run... could people stop talking about websites and finances and legal teams and just pick up the phone, ring a promoter and get them to agree to have us turn up?
do that and we are 90% of the way there..
now i don't have the contacts in the rave scene, but i know some of you do.
trust me. this is going to be the hardest thing. get that and the rest will fall into place.
once it's done once,and people hear about it, pretty soon people are going to expect it. it's getting to the point in america where people dont go "oh wow look, some guys testing pills", they go "hey where are the pill testing guys, are they here yet?"
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 27 September 2000).]

 

[BigfootDragon]

on the suggestion of a web presence...
i can provide a domain name for $33 (two years) and hosting for free, so if need be, i can do it. let me know.
Bigfoot Dragon.

 

[rc1n]

From my very limited legal knowledge I don't think people can sue after taking a pill that tested as MDMA but turned out to be bunk, i *think* consuming ecstacy is illegal. Any action under torts law (I'm assuming that they'd be suing under the tort of negligence) will not suceed because consuming the pill is illegal. Does this make sense??
Basically A can't be sued if what B is doing is illegal.
I'm very interested in helping in Perth.
One point I have to raise again is whether promoters and club owners would be happy having a Bluelight stall at their events and what would happen if mass media caught on and sensationalised the whole thing?? I guess we need positive media support as well. (possibly through street press, Like X press and Hype in perth)
Peace
rc1n
P.S I *think* a complete disclaimer, IE making people sign a statement saying that they accept all risks, etc, etc, before the pill is tested would mean that we wouldn't face any legal ramifications

 

[Temptress]

hi guys,
hope you dont mind but Im about to email energyemperors to see if they are interested in helping out. ill include a link to here.
i do think its about time i actually did something...perhaps this will get the ball rolling?
I hope this link shows that we are serious.
any feed back? hope im not treading on anyones toes.
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Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress

 

[Temptress]

Ok, I've emailed them so lets cross our fingers and hope they reply...
here's exactly what I wrote...please verify if it's okay (though it has already been sent).
Hello, my name is Jenna (a.k.a Temptress).
I am a part of Bluelight, a community message board of which I'm sure you are aware of. In recent times we have been
discussing the possibilities of holding a stall, a Bluelight stall, which would allow us to provide education/awareness and
harm minimisation at events such as the ones you produce.
Ideally this would be provided through the testing of pills (such as Dancesafe does in America), the selling of EZ
testers, and handing out flyers and pamphlets. This is of course is just in the development stage and is pending
investigation into the legalities involved.
Why I am emailing, is because one of the early stages of such development requires an event to hold the store at. I am
hopeful that you may be interested in providing such space for a stall, or any advice you may have in order for us to
achieve such a goal.
I must also add, that we are planning to be non-profit, only benefiting from perhaps donations on behalf of punters and
corporate sponsors, these of course will be thrown into Bluelight to keep it afloat and continue such awareness.
This has the potential to change the 'scene' of events. Punters such as ourselves will know that if a Bluelight stall is to be
held at an event, that they know a higher standard in safety will be held, and dangerous substances can be avoided. We
hope to promote safety, which will benefit you also in the knowledge that any potentially dangerous event is less likely
to take place.
Please, consider this carefully, you can get a better idea of what we have in mind by reading the following link:
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum10/HTML/002537.html
If you would like to discuss this further, please email me on:
[email protected]
or post your views on the thread. All input or advice whether or not positive, is appreciated so please dont hesitate to
express it. We wish to plan this carefully and be advised of everything necessary to make this come true.
Thankyou for your time and patience.
On behalf of Bluelight,
Jenna.
(Temptress)
What do you think?? I tried to explain easy and simply as possible so they get the idea with out being bombarded with too much info in case they disregard it on the basis of length. (myself having a short attention span at times)
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Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress

 

[commuter]

Okay so there are heaps of issues surrounding legality and responsibility, media attentian etc in providing testing areas for pills.. Maybe your going too fast, and need to start at a simpler level, and move up to providing pill tests.
Here on bluelight, it is fair to say, bluelighters get the lowdown on the quality and contents of the pills going around BEFORE the events happen most of the time, could there be a simple bluelight stall which just 'advised' whether or not to purchase a pill, or what a pill that an individual possesses is suspected to have in it?
For example
individual approaches bluelighter and says
"i am thinking of purchasing a orange dolphin, what is your opinion on this pill"
Bluelihter: "To the best of our knowledge this pill does not have much MDMA in it"
this is just an idea, because i mean most of the pills that would be submited at a bluelight pill testing station, would be familiar to the bluelighter at the stall, and could save a lot of hassle/legal issues by cutting out the testing process.
Thoughts on this?
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So if you feel it by your speakers get near it, made for those who wanna hear it, the .. Starkiller!

 

[haste]

boikah - taking one step at a time is exactly what is intended and you're right - information is the key!!
Mr. Horse - Thank you so much for your time Horse, I understand you have school to contend with also so I know how valuable your time is

Chemical Generation & candyflip - your support on the testing side of things is invaluable. Please come to the first meeting next week!!
Temptress - I look forward to hearing the response you receive from your email!!
Many idea's have been thrown around in this thread and I encourage that everyone has an imput into this. I will in the end print out this thread and take it into our first meeting so we can fully explore all point raised.
We are entering a new and exciting phase of Bluelight and believe me, we are about to start a very fulfilling journey. I'm as excited as a pig in shit (ewwwwwww)

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Careful with that axe Eugene....

 

[XSI11V]

Do you think we might as well start bouncing round some ideas for a flyer/brochure which might include:
- FACTS which dispell popular myths about 'e'
- TIPS for harm minimisation eg. pre/postloading, E testers etc.
- and perhaps some info about bluelight.ru
or do we already have this sort of info in an FAQ? If so it might just need some slight adjustments.
If we get this up and running in Syd as well (it seems quite possible as many sydneysiders have pledged their willingness to help out) it might be an idea to arrange a distibutor of Chem Gen's E testers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think these aren't available up here - only the original $50 E-Z testers.

 

[haste]

XSI11V - by all means, if you get a group of sydneysiders together - make a start, no time like the present. Brochures is one of the things we will be discussing at our meeting - we can then put our collective heads together.
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Careful with that axe Eugene....

 

[johnboy]

commuter: no. i dont think thats a good idea. you are ppassing on hearsay, which is a lot dodgier than doing a marquis reagent test which never lies.
dancesafe have a very strong policy about not using hearsay as advice. i'm trying to find a series of emails where i had a debate with emmanuel about this issue.
i felt it would be important to tell someone if they had a pill which was known to contain a very large amount of MDxx, as an inexperienced user taking this pill might have a bad night, being floored by an unusally large dose they werent prepared for.
emmanueal felt that telling people anything other than empirical scientific evidence, ie what the test means and known facts about MDMA, would make for many legal problems.
now personally if i have a wafer thin little raver chick come up to me and tests a pill which i know is the mother of all pills with 200+ milligrams and she says "i'm going to take a couple of these" i'm sure as hell going to advise her against it and tell her why. but thats a personal stance and not something to base a legal defence on.
see how complicated this can get?
also if, as i think you are suggesting, we dont see the pill, how can we know for sure if its the real mc'coy or an imitation. remember how much confusion the recent batches of yellow CKs have caused? it took over two months to track down exactly what all the copies looked like and how they were different.
you dont have that much time when you are tabling an event. you do have the time to perform a prefectly legal Marquis Reagent test, with a sample you havent touched, supplied by a person who is only in temporary possession of an illegal substance, which is being treated as a misdemeanour these days...
temptress: that is a fantastic email. puts the case very well. out of interest, who are these people you have sent it too? forgive my ignorance.

this would be a good url to include in future emails:
http://www.dancesafe.org/onsite.html

 

[Cowboy Mac]

i agree with johnboy there, its just asking for trouble if you start saying what you assume are in the pills, as for testing the pills there are so many copies around and the test is scientific. Johnboy: i dont see how we would ever come to know how many mg is in a pill of MDMA, but assuming we did (or knew they were strong at least, maybe if she said she was gonna have 3 green CUS or something) saying not to take them because theyre strong could possibly be just as bad as what is contained in 1 local pill that has wierd shit in it, ie. 1 local pill could be much worse than 3 strong mdma pills, so i dont think its worth giving any recommendations.
[This message has been edited by Cowboy Mac (edited 27 September 2000).]

 

[candyflip]

B. from Chem Gen, and myself, will be at the Melbourne meeting next week where we will explain the testing issues and legalities as we understand them currently.
SYDNEY: yes, 'E' kits are available in NSW (try Reachin' Records, Sydney for a start) and Chemical Generation will provide as much 'E' solution for you free as you require it (and I hope you do), at anything you guys get organised in the future. Leave that side to them. They'll come through.
EVERYONE: forget Future Entertainment for now. They have too much 'media face' to protect, I believe, to possibly risk having pill tests done on THEIR sacred grounds (The Docks etc).
I would instead concentrate on the Underground (where it always, all begins

). MUD, Agent MAD (Simon Coyle is terrifc: actually, leave him to me), Earthcore and others...
See you next week...
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The latest Event info, Pill Tests and Club Listings, online: http://www.the-peak.com.au

 

[haste]

One thing I have learned over the years is that you follow two golden rules:
Empowerment - You provide the most up to date and factual information that is available, empower the person with this information and let him/her decide what course of action to take. Never at any point do you make a decision on behalf of someone, you give them the relevant information and let them decide - it's their life and their choice in the end. Whether you are a Youth Worker, Social Worker or any worker in the social field, you have a duty of care to the people you are dealing with. Provide them with information so they make their "own" decision, clearing you of any responsibility legally (assuming that the information is correct).
Referral - This is also another important rule I think must be remembered. If approached by some-one do not give them advice on a matter that you have no qualification on. Refer them on to some-one qualified or refer them to the relevant service dealing with such issues. In the case of being at a rave and some-one approaches you worried about a medical condition, you comfort and refer on to the first aid people. If no first aid tent is present then you inform the person that you are not qualified to make any judgement and suggest that a qualified practitioner be contacted. Again you have had no impact on the person's condition, or been repsonsible to worsening their condition - therefore you cannot be held liable!
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Careful with that axe Eugene....

 

[fat tony]

i am very, very interested in being involved in these stalls and generally assisting our scene as much as humanly possible. it has become a very passionate interest of mine over the last year or so.
but i'm kinda doing my hsc at the mo. soooo... i dont think i could attend meetings and stuff quite yet. but as soon as school is over i am so there.

i am in sydney. and i attend the well promoted parties (utopia etc..) and the lesser known ones (happysnax, mystic etc..). i have little knowledge of how the events are set up, who holds the cards, who makes the decisions. so i'd offer my assistance at the party/event level. manning the stalls, flyer distribution and so on.
question for sydney ppl?? are these the sort of events that we are talking of targeting??

 

[Temptress]

hi guys...no reply as yet from energyemperors...but this isnt necessarily bad, it is a lot to consider after all...
thanks for the link..I'll be sure to include it in future emails...
at the moment im doing it in between my 'get me a job efforts' phhh this website is starting to appear in my sleep. but I think Earthcore would be a great place to ry also so I'll try to contact them via email tonight...
perhaps something at EarthDance would be suitable???? Im thinking about passing Transmission for Earthdance which is ALOT closer to home....maybe organise somethingthere??
also, I think with all the 'technicalities' with the phrasing of pill tests and information. that it would be a good idea if all stall attendants are briefed on a pre-set guide to what can and cant be said....etc.
(sorry if this seems a little obvious, just rambling thoughts on the topic)
flyer organisation sounds a good place to start...perhaps a sydney brainstorm soon would be appropriate??? im sure a few gongers would be willing to be involved....
and yes, i think the FAQ's and perhaps other previous posts such as those posted by pinger hold a wealth of information (such as pre/post loading) to source for the brochures. with the permission of pinger and others of course...
keep me posted on what else I can do and Ill check in with updates from my end...+
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Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress

 

[Temptress]

BFD had a great idea for a crawling point, business cards for BL...perhaps the handing out of these will notify ppl of our presence and then when a stall is organised, they will know they will definately want to look at it and see what we have to offer....
another thing...flyers and the such...what about costs of printing? Paper? are there any ppl out there with contacts in this area??
this would be great to get a start on...
p.s. if us sydneysiders could be provided with some sort of minutes of the Melbourne meeting...or something like that so we know whats up and whats not....and we do the same then perhaps we can all put our distances aside and help each other out, aye?
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Submit yourself to the aural temptations of the world - seduce or be seduced.
Temptress
[This message has been edited by Temptress (edited 28 September 2000).]

 

[atomica]

i like that idea of stickers.. at pureflow (i think it was pureflow..?) i saw some ppl with stickers that were nothing more than ordinary printer lables that had something funny printed on them.
if any of the wittier among us can come up w/ something good along those lines.. something that will grab the attention quickly and is amusing enough to make you wanna stick it on, that might do the trick for a short-term, low cost starter?
just a thought.. i agree that a lot of ppl have short attention spans, and wont go looking for or reading a leangthy info sheet unless we give em a good reason to.
smilez!

ps.. candyflip i'd hesitate to classify agent mad as part of the "underground" hehe

 

[haste]

Temptress - fear not - I will be taking minutes of the melbourne meeting and then typing them up for distribution to eveyone who was at the meeting and others involved in other states. With well organised efforts I'm sure we can get around alot of distance problems. Keep up the good work Temptress and you sound like the right person to marshall the troops in Sydney

P.S. - Temptress have you got an email addy - email it to me if you don't mind - it will help in keeping in touch
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Careful with that axe Eugene....
[This message has been edited by haste (edited 28 September 2000).]