Any Atheists here?

[Tromps]

^ I think you hit it right on actually.

You're right. I love going to my church not only to worship God but because of the community, people, and fellowship. I have met cool guys and energetic cute ladies at young adult events who are passionate about praising God together. Whether it be music and singing songs, dinner, movies, socializing, brings strong bonds and relationships, which in-turn only increases the faith and increases the outreach and numbers to spread the name of Jesus Christ.

That doesn't just go for Christianity either. Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, all these Mosques, Temples, and Churches bring people together for friendship, relationships, and personal spiritual development.

 

[Maya]

I used to go to sunday masses and loved singing with the choir. I think what really kept me going is this feeling of calmness and how you feel that once you confessed or prayed to the lord it feels that your burden has been taken off your shoulders. You are lucky tromps that you still have this powerful faith which I once had. I just hope I can find that faith that I have felt many years ago.

 

[Care]

Omgosh really you think a creation has no creator?

Youre assuming it is a creation in the first place, there is no evidence that the universe is created.

Irreligious folk, you really need to get onto creating community growing, emotional support, practical life advice, socialization hub, charitable centers that welcome everyone (who can swallow some basic credo). Until you (as a community) really invest in helping those that are lost and troubled, instead of dispensing the "make your own meaning/do what you want" aphorism, or trying to pass them off to the psychiatric industry instead of treating them like people who can be helped by human involvement and honest interaction, you won't be able to render religion obsolete.

The fact that religious organizations sometimes do good works has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not God is real. I will give you that religion is responsible for some good things such as schools, hospitals, charities ect (although over the course of history I would argue far more negative than good), but the thing you need to understand is the fact that you do some good things doesn't make your belief in an imaginary friend called God any more legitimate when it comes down to an analysis of the real world. Im sure people of ancient times believed that practicing their religion of worshiping pagan/greek/roman gods brought them some sort of personal development, but does that mean that their gods were real? Of course not.

Also, religion doesnt not have a monopoly on doing good works. There are plenty of non-christian people who do good works. The idea that Christianity has a monopoly on morality is demonstrably false. And if you want to pick on atheists for being unorganized in their altruistic behavior, then I will point to the fact that atheists historically (and to this day) are shunned by almost all communities, making organization very difficult.

As you are now, you seem more like a group of people who are comfortable with their place in, or their place in opposition to, modern society and its values (and who think everyone else is like this, or should be able to get there easy enough). You gotta deal with the problem of anomie. Fear of death or explaining natural phenomena is not what fuels the pious, it's the support. Organized religion offers a trellis for personal development, fertilizes growth and helps you prune the BS. If people are just developing on their own (esp. those who are poorly socialized), there are so many years spent growing yourself towards dead ends, such a wild mass of thoughts and feelings with no order, people living stunted lives for lack of coherency and ontological security, such struggle that many are lost to despair.

Maybe I'm just babbling, I dunno.

I agree that the main thing that attracts people to religion is the community of faith. But I think you are wrong in necessarily putting a value on conforming your personal growth towards a christian doctrine that you has no supporting evidence whatsoever.


Let me ask all you people of faith a couple questions.

Do you believe in unicorns? Why or why not?

Assuming your answer is "no", if tomorrow there was a massive revolution, and suddenly 95% of the worldwide population believed in unicorns, would that change your belief in the existence of unicorns?

 

[Foreigner]

Upon reviewing the OP...

I am an outed Atheist. I respect all other's beliefs and am always down for discussion.

any other Atheists here? Do you face a lot of persecution and hatred here or in other places in your life?

I generally approach the topic pretty respectfully, so I generally don't save for a few instances (the extremists).

Just curious

I just want to put out there that if atheists would like to continue the original discussion I'll help with reinforcement. This thread has had some anti-atheist rhetoric in it along with tangents into talking about whether or not God exists.

I would like this thread to be a safe space for atheists to talk about their experiences.

 

[Care]

Well for me, atheism comes directly from a rejection of my family's christian faith.

Suffice to say that the only thing that I really practice as far as atheism goes is to refute Christian claims about the truth of Christianity, and defend my absence of belief in God. Other than that I dont even think of myself as an atheist, because the thought of God does not enter my mind whatsoever, making the classification totally useless.

 

[Fresco]

I'm not religious in the sense that I go to church, or follow any type of religion.

I do however believe the universe was created by a higher power, and I really dont understand how people can be atheists when you carefully look at how complex the human eye is for example

 

[RobotRipping]

i've noticed some anti-atheistic statements from myself and i just want to let it be known that i am not in a position to argue for or against any one else's position or beliefs or whatever. Just wanted to get a dialogue going on what people thought was plausible or likely or really why atheism exists as on opposing force to theism sometimes or what it's really all about.

I think through this discussion many of us have gotten to know ourselves and our belief system better than anything else. That was useful in my case at least. Sorry if that sounds gay lol. I'm a pantheist/agnostic former (through psychedelics) atheist (mad at god), former christian (catholic didn't know any better) so my belief system changes as the world does and as i see fit. I would also like this thread to be a safe place for atheists to talk about their experiences.

 

[Fresco]

atheist (mad at god)

I found this to be a very common trait among atheists. Its almost as if they really do believe in a God, but that they are mad at him for some type of tragedy that happened in their life.

Hitchens was like this, his mom committed suicide and he believed it was in part caused by her husband who was a clergyman

 

[Care]

I'm not religious in the sense that I go to church, or follow any type of religion.

I do however believe the universe was created by a higher power, and I really dont understand how people can be atheists when you carefully look at how complex the human eye is for example

Im glad you brought this up, because the complexity of the eye is a common talking point for people that believe in intelligent design.

And, its also true that science will never be able to observe an eye evolving because if eyes did evolve from a more primitive form to their current form, it took hundreds of millions or even billions of years. However, as with any long process of change (like plate tectonics, the history of the solar system, ect) science can look at the evidence and create a coherent theory about how something like an eye might have evolved.

The above picture is a rough illustration of how photo sensitive patches on the outside of more simple organisms might have taken shape to eventually become eyes. The cells eventually evolve to have a more concave shape to better absorb the light, and eventually a lens covers the eye in order to filter the light properly. My understanding of this theory is very basic, but if you're interested here is a short documentary on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stb9pQc9Kq0

Also, ive covered the topic of why humans tend to attribute the existence complex developed organisms or environments to a creator in previous posts.

It is natural for humans to want to explain the world around us. The thing that separates us from other animals is the ability to use our intellect and our bodies to make things. So, naturally it is reasonable ( in the absence of a greater understanding of how the world works) for someone to come to the conclusion that all of the vast, complex world around us is the work of a vastly powerful anthropomorphized creator. After these ideas are established they become cultural, and ingrained into the very fabric of an individuals personality at a young age.

 

[Fresco]

^^^ Care, I dont doubt for one minute evolution is what got humans to where they are today. But is it not possible a Creator used the evolutionary process to create humans??

I look at this way, for every computer program there was a computer designer. Its impossible for computer code to write itself

 

[mal3volent]

What possible reason would a god have to utilize evolution as a means to create something? Better yet, why even create humanity in the first place?

 

[RobotRipping]

to experience itself subjectively under certain circumstances? could be any reason really.

 

[Care]

^^^ Care, I dont doubt for one minute evolution is what got humans to where they are today. But is it not possible a Creator used the evolutionary process to create humans??

I look at this way, for every computer program there was a computer designer. Its impossible for computer code to write itself

That is not something that can be ruled out, but just know there is no evidence to support that stance, and that you are basing your view on faith alone (by that line of reasoning you can believe almost anything that you want to believe).

You would be suprised at how lifelike simple elements can become when they are combined together. Check out this TED talks on proto cells. In this video the presenter adds simple materials together to create very basic "proto cells". Once assembled these cells take on strange properties of seemingly life like movement. I think it really is a great example of a possible way that life started, and the forces that continue to drive evolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dySwrhMQdX4

 

[Fresco]

That is not something that can be ruled out, but just know there is no evidence to support that stance, and that you are basing your view on faith alone (by that line of reasoning you can believe almost anything that you want to believe)

Yup, I can't argue with that since there is no definitive proof of God.

However, the flipside to your argument is if there is no Creator life in all its splendor had to be a complete accident. I find that a little too hard to swallow, because that means life is one heck of a random "accident"

 

[Care]

However, the flipside to your argument is if there is no Creator life in all its splendor had to be a complete accident. I find that a little too hard to swallow, because that means life is one heck of a random "accident"

Watch that TED talks video I posted, it is a great illustration of how basic compounds can behave in very lifelike ways when mixed together the right way.

Also, I dislike the word "accident" when it comes to explaining the origin of life because it still implies creation (albeit unintentional creation). I would say that life is the inevitable result of certain compounds being in certain conditions.

But yes, life is one heck of an "accident" as you put it. But when you look up into infinity, and realize that every dot in the night sky is a star like our sun, and that each star can have a solar system just like ours. And that all the stars we see are just a fraction of the stars in our own galaxy, and that there are many many millions of galaxies, you come to the realization that among the vastness of the universe, the conditions that support life must happen at least once, possibly many more times. Its only in our limited and subjective view of the universe that we come to the conclusion that the universe was created.

 

[RobotRipping]

^if you consider the possibility of infinite many universes it becomes much more complex. This universe was set up in such a way that life could be possible while if any other physical constant were different life would not be plausible in this universe, so either there are infinite many universes and it's just a matter of odds or this is a simulation or intelligent design or something beyond our understanding. That's why i mostly lean agonostic because as of right now, we just don't know enough to say one way or the other.

The idea of brane plates smashing into each other creating the big bang is my favourite idea of the creation of our universe but it also implies that there are many other universes as well, infinitely many? i don't know but some of these ideas really throw logic and science out the window but are still conceivable.

our universe most certainly has a beginning and an end, it is not eternal, it'll die of heat death or whatever you call it but the fact that a new universe may pop up at any time is also possible and that cycle is what i would call eternal. The possibility that all these universes are connected in some way leaves room for what i would call a God or something of that nature, which would be the culmination of everything that exists. And why? well because life is beautiful no matter how you look at it, it's better than nothing. that's just my personal opinion though.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

I for one am Atheist.

Theology defies logic.

If you believe with a smidgen of doubt that we were “put” here, that is utterly ridiculous.

The very essence of religion is to give meaning to the unknown. It is so redundant, it sickens me.

You can’t place stories as moral teachings without solid definitions...

When you try to apply those to real life, they are brainwashing themselves...

 

[Care]

^if you consider the possibility of infinite many universes it becomes much more complex. This universe was set up in such a way that life could be possible while if any other physical constant were different life would not be plausible in this universe, so either there are infinite many universes and it's just a matter of odds or this is a simulation or intelligent design or something beyond our understanding. That's why i mostly lean agonostic because as of right now, we just don't know enough to say one way or the other.

The idea of brane plates smashing into each other creating the big bang is my favourite idea of the creation of our universe but it also implies that there are many other universes as well, infinitely many? i don't know but some of these ideas really throw logic and science out the window but are still conceivable.

our universe most certainly has a beginning and an end, it is not eternal, it'll die of heat death or whatever you call it but the fact that a new universe may pop up at any time is also possible and that cycle is what i would call eternal. The possibility that all these universes are connected in some way leaves room for what i would call a God or something of that nature, which would be the culmination of everything that exists. And why? well because life is beautiful no matter how you look at it, it's better than nothing. that's just my personal opinion though.

I considered myself an agnostic for a long time, but I think for me it was just a more socially acceptable cop out version of atheism. If you are going to admit that you are ignorant to the origins of life and the universe, then the next question is what is the more likely answer to the questions that religion tries to answer. At very least you have to come to the conclusion that organized religion is nothing more than a control mechanism to help bind society together. This means that the only possible scenario of a creator is some sort of behind the scenes force rather than an anthropomorphized version like in the bible/koran ect. If this is the case, and God is not interested in showing any sign of his existence to us, it is very likely that he doesn't care at all about us, let alone care about what we do with our lives.

In the end, if you are agnostic, I think you eventually come to the conclusion that he doesn't give a shit about you, hasn't created a paradise for an afterlife, or any of that other nonsense. So why pursue a relationship with God? Why embark on the fools quest of trying to come to some sort of conclusion about questions that will never be answered. I find it much more fulfilling to simply live in the moment and enjoy life without worrying about such things.

 

[RobotRipping]

i completely agree with you there in the first paragraph and have since leaned theist rather than agonistc.

why pursue a relationship with God? because there is great power in it, i can feel that connection to the oneness or unity whatever it is, i can't explain it, it's ineffable and defies logic but i can feel it intuitively and feel free to call me crazy but that's all i have to go on, whether i'm right or wrong doesn't affect anything anyway but it's what i feel is true in my heart.

I will never stop being critical and asking questions and trying to gain insight and prove/disprove the existence of such a force of nature or being as God through logic as we develop logic and science through experience and life. It's just a personal goal of mine and if it's all in vein and not worth it, well it's the same as anything else then isn't it? the process of doing such a thing is the value of it and reaching self actualization whether it be false or not, the journey is what counts, not the destination.

just something to think about. i don't see why our views cannot be compatible in some way or another.

i speak with a therapist whose approach is always allegorical, he tells me stories and that's it and i recognize patterns and that's how i resolve my issues, i see life itself the same way in regards to religion, like with organized religion. Say the story of Abraham, sounds completely like paranoid schizophrenia right? defies logic? yes but could that not be the nature of God? is it a metaphor for that leap of faith you must make? rather than a literal story? i find there are interesting arguments for the existence or non existence of God based on such things and on probabilities, modal logic, predicate logic and all that fun stuff. If nothing else, you can really open up your mind with it and gain tools to deconstruct ideas and concepts we often take for granted in life.

hope that makes some sense

 

[Care]

i completely agree with you there in the first paragraph and have since leaned theist rather than agonistc.

why pursue a relationship with God? because there is great power in it, i can feel that connection to the oneness or unity whatever it is, i can't explain it, it's ineffable and defies logic but i can feel it intuitively and feel free to call me crazy but that's all i have to go on, whether i'm right or wrong doesn't affect anything anyway but it's what i feel is true in my heart.

I have absolutely no problem with that type of approach, some people find comfort in being spiritual and that can be a very positive thing. What I have a problem with are people that say they know for sure that they have found the truth. Being spiritual in your own way is another thing entirely, although I think you are selling yourself short by attributing your spirituality to some sort of higher power, when the real magic you are feeling is nothing more than the beauty of your own mind experiencing the world in its own unique way.

just something to think about. i don't see why our views cannot be compatible in some way or another.i speak with a therapist whose approach is always allegorical, he tells me stories and that's it and i recognize patterns and that's how i resolve my issues, i see life itself the same way in regards to religion, like with organized religion. Say the story of Abraham, sounds completely like paranoid schizophrenia right? defies logic? yes but could that not be the nature of God? is it a metaphor for that leap of faith you must make? rather than a literal story? i find there are interesting arguments for the existence or non existence of God based on such things and on probabilities, modal logic, predicate logic and all that fun stuff. If nothing else, you can really open up your mind with it and gain tools to deconstruct ideas and concepts we often take for granted in life.

hope that makes some sense

Have you ever heard of the "god of the gaps" argument. Basically, it states that the idea of God is used by people to explain things that have not yet been explained. In old times there were Gods responsible for the harvest, and the rain, and the game that people would hunt. Gods were thoguht to literally live in the sky, or on top of some enormous mountain. Now that people have advanced to the point where we understand all of those things very well, and have traveled to the top of those mountains and flown in the sky, it seems rather silly for us to attribute them to Gods.

Its is only once all these myths have been dispelled that we now realize there is no God responsible for good/bad harvests, and that there is no god living in the sky or on that mountain. So, as the so called "gaps" of understanding have narrowed, so had the role of God in our lives.

This leads us to our modern situation, where God is used to explain the few questions about life and the world that are still unanswered by science, and the old stories about Gods (which used to be taken quite literally) are now reduced to metaphor. Take the old stories as metaphors for wisdom of old cultures if you want, but if you are taking them to mean anything about a true God, I would encourage you to take a step back and ask yourself why it is you do that.