Phenethylamines [2C-E Subthread] 2C-E Dosage and Methods of Administration

[Beenhead]

spacing trips widely will insure better integration along with added safety for the 'ol noggin. Id say at least a month

 

[B9]

and i had used it previously at the same dose without such intense effects.

I think this effect is essentially biochemical in nature how ready your brain is to accept the chemical , I've found this a big factor with 2ce and 4 aco Mipt

 

[thugg]

Well, I tried this last night, for the first time. I started at 20mg which is pretty high for most people, but I've always been kind of a 'hardhead'.

And much to my surprise, it wasn't anything like I had expected. I was expecting to have some pretty strong visuals, but I had to almost concentrate on them at times to even notice them. I mean, the visuals I did get were nice, lots of kind of faint patterning on everything (although, I also have visual snow aka "persistnat aura without infraction", so it kind of just made this more intense, made the otherwise random array of dots, into more complex patterns-something that even just smoking weed can do), shadows playing tricks on me (as in, shadows that didn't exist), heightened colors, etc. My body felt really nice, reminded me of 2c-b, but somehow different. Music was fantastic, it really stood out, some notes I had never heard before, or bothered to notice.

I think I've read in this thread at some point, another person having similar problems. Like, it takes getting accustomed to, to really benefit from what it has to offer.

It's quite known that it has a pretty steep dose-response curve, so I'm kind of weary of how I should go about this next time. Do you think I should just start at another 20mg? And see if this time it's more intense, or should I go up a couple mg? What about plugging, what amount would be comparable to 20mg oral? Of course I'll be waiting AT LEAST a couple days to try it again, so I don't think tolerence should be much of an issue the next go.

 

[nuke]

One of my friends is like that...His dose is 32-36mg for 2c-e, you might fare better up around there. If you want to plug, go for about 40-50% of what you think you'd use oral.

 

[thugg]

Alright man, thank you for the information. I guess I'll just try a fatter oral dose next time (30mg). I guess if it's too much, then it's about time I had something like that happen to me, lol. Or maybe just 15 or so plugged, which I've never done before (with anything), so we'll just wait and see.

I'll report back next time, and hopefully it'll be worthy or writing up a trip report.

 

[fastandbulbous]

10mg plugged is comparable to how many mg oral?

18mg orally gave me a trip i was barely prepared for. im waiting till i step it up to 20mg (especially after reading MGS's warning about each 2mg making it twice as strong.)

Hmmmm say 15 approx, I find many RCs variable I guess it just happens how well they engage with the brain chemically (a complete guess) but given I used stuff from same package n got very variable resonses to same doses, be aware of that.
One day 15 is a nice easy bit of a laugh time, then next time the same dose can be heavier by quite a bit !!!

One thing that people don't seem to take into account is the possible presence of faeces in the colon which will soak up some of the drug solution. After trying rectal admin following an enema to clean the bowel of such matter, I've found that most PEAs (phenethylamines) gain from at least a doubling of potency. Some (ones I suspect more susceptable to breakdown by MAO) such as 2C-D & 2C-C are much more than 2x the potency via the rectal route (administered as a solution in warm water), to the point that a dose of 2C-C that would be barely noticable by mouth (~15-20mg - can't exactly remember how much now) became a white knuckle ride after rectal admin and something I would never repeat.

Funnily, one of my two ++++ experiences was with 2C-E at 17.5mg; a dose which I've taken since and got average effects from (the other was with mescaline from san pedro, so PEAs have a special place in my heart!); at the same time, a friend had a fairly major freakout/panic attack from 10mg of 2C-E so proceed with care as this one seems more variable on a person to person basis than most psychedelics I've encountered.

One thing that I've found special about 2C-E (I'd not go as far as unique as it happens to a slight extent with other drugs) is that at higher doses I get a sensation that all my senses have blended together into one supersense. Not synasthesia, which is one sensory input expressed in the manner of another, but a melding together of them all so it's difficult to isolate, say the sound of a bell ringing, from it's effect on vision, touch, smell etc.; I remember that a few people have said that this sensory blending seems to be closely linked to ++++ experiences. Either way it's a mighty strange experience when it does occur

 

[Xorkoth]

thugg: I would definitely not raise the dosage to 30mg in one step. That's a 50% increase in dose, and 2C-E's dose-response curve is not linear at all but exponential. 30mg is going to be almost immeasurably more intense than 20mg. I would try 22mg perhaps. If that doesn't work, raise it up 2mg each time... it seems to roughly double in power each 2mg for many people. Once you reach a level that is very intense, then only raise your dose by 1mg each time.

I also get the mixed senses effect from 2C-E. It's quite a unique effect and much different from typical synaesthesia. Also, after I had a powerful, landmark trip at 18mg, I've tried it twice more at 18mg and 20mg, and achieved very weak effects, which puzzles the hell out of me, considering both of my first two 18mg trips were incredibly intense.

 

[Voodoochild870]

I'm quite interested in getting some 2c-E soon and I was wondering if 6 or 7mgs would produce a ++ or low +++. I just want to start low and take it from there cause I've read about how potent 2c-E can be on people.

 

[Xorkoth]

6 or 7mg is very unlikely to produce a +++. It may produce a ++ however, but it depends on whether or not you are sensitive to it. Personally I find 12mg to produce a solid +1/light +2, but I'm no longer quite so sensitive to phenethylamines. There have been isolated reports of 8-10 mgs producing a +3 experience, but it seems highly unusual. But you're absolutely right that 2C-E is a highly potent molecule. it seems that the difference between an easy +2 and a strong, even overwhelming +3 can be as little as 2mgs.

 

[uncomfortablepants]

Personally I find the line between ++ and +++ blurred with 2c-E. I wont get visuals until about 10-12mg but I cant go about business as usual with anything above about 6mg. It may just be me though. For me 2c-e makes interacting with others very intense and makes my perception shift constantly.

However, the first time I took it was at 10mg around a bunch of drunk people and things went swimmingly.

 

[Xorkoth]

7 or 8 mgs is a good place to start. Just don't expect too much at that level. However, you may be pleasantly surprised. 2C-E is indeed an excellent chemical. One of the best in existence, really. Be careful and enjoy

 

[Morninggloryseed]

7 or 8 mgs is a good place to start. Just don't expect too much at that level. However, you may be pleasantly surprised. 2C-E is indeed an excellent chemical. One of the best in existence, really. Be careful and enjoy

On the other hand, 7 or 8mg can be plenty for work. Check out this passage from The Secret Chief.

http://www.maps.org/t2e/c6.html

I set up this day to take a light dose of 2C-E. It is my hope that the lighter amount will elevate me into higher energy than normal, allow me to accomplish the ordinary tasks of the day more efficiently, and enjoy a higher state of "Presence." I also hope to learn to overcome resistances to chores, as has happened with previous small doses of other substances. In addition, I wish to find out if the dose will be light enough to not stir up the deep, uncomfortable feelings I almost always encounter with this substance.

I take 8 m.g. of 2C-E. I decide to work on a paper I had once started on how this material level of creation came into being. I think the paper starts well, but I can't see how to continue past where I had stopped before, when single-celled life came into being.

I lie on the sofa. I realize I don't know shit. How preposterous, to speculate creation!! I don't even know how an amoeba came into being, or if anyone does!

I look at the vastness of the unknown. I can see how fearless exploration with these substances might lead to gaining knowledge of how life came into being. I realize that the universe has been created in love. Then I experience the roaring anger of not knowing, which brings me back to the keyboard to write again. The following are my live notes:

This is a raging, raging anger. I don't know, and I absolutely hate not knowing, but at the same time I don't want to do what it takes to learn!! What a dilemma!! The dilemma of the world!!

At two hours, this is getting very intense. I am surprised at the intensity. I am typing perfectly!!! This is a real change, as I ordinarily fill the page with typos. I am going through a great struggle. I feel the need to stay conscious, in control, master inner feelings and work as a conscious human being. Right now this feels good. . .

Ten hours later: I had decided to go to my meditation rock (described in Appendix III). When I arrived there, I was feeling awful, dragging a heavy load. I was out of breath and had to force myself to climb the hill, which I was determined to do. A brief look around did not bring my accustomed contact with the Numinous. I lay back and relaxed with eyes closed.

I would really be a writer if I could describe what happened. I simply put myself in the hands of God, and all the discomfort began to slide away. This contact is the only contact in life that is important. It leads to everything worthwhile. But mostly it permits simply settling into what we really are, our true inner Self. Here I am tempted to use flowery adjectives, or expansive descriptions. But no, it is simply who we are. Resting there, being there, is beyond any description. Wonder? Glory? Profundity? As far as I can stretch my mind, the adjectives won't do. All the little devices, the little tricks I used to use to encourage me into this state, all seem terribly inept and even manipulative. Allowing? Letting? Are these better words? As I struggle for expression, the feeling once again comes over me. I want to do everything I possibly can to encourage it, to deepen it, to remember it in a way that can never be forgotten. All I can do is ask. The rest is up to Him.

But that's not true. I can do a lot! Prepare the way for the Lord! I see myself shouting, screaming, calling forth glorious music. Yes, prepare a way! And that way is an emptying out, a total cleansing so that He may enter an untarnished room, free of any dross whatsoever, and fill it with His radiance. Don't put new wine in old wineskins. But how can we possibly make it clean enough, pure enough for His Holiness?

Only in the clean, pure fire of love. Nothing else will do. It is love that burns out the dross. It is love that purifies and cleanses.

Light the fire of 2C-E! Let the flames burn away the dross, burnish the core of radiance that awaits to shine forth!

I was stuck with this concept of creating the clean space, what it really means, and is it truly necessary? Not knowing how to proceed, I abandoned my writing. Now, three days later, being driven through the Owens Valley of Eastern California, I am continuing my report:
It is strange that just rereading what I wrote before and starting to think about it considerably raises my consciousness as I look at the mountains around me. This drive through the Owens Valley is a truly outstanding one. Surrounded by towering mountains on both sides of the valley, the views are very inspiring. I was blocked at the time by what it meant to prepare the clear space. Now as I think about it, it is what I have been saying for some time. The cleanliness is the purity of mind, the creating of the clear, empty space that God can enter. We don't throw away our past experiences or our memories, but it is our consciousness that we clear.

It is interesting that we spent the day yesterday hiking in the mountains with a student of Tibetan Buddhist meditation. We discussed a number of factors concerning reaching and maintaining a stable, clear mind. I have to say at this point in time that the best aid I know to getting the most realization from these psychedelic experiences, as well as on a day-to-day basis, is the mind training of utter stillness. It is this stillness which allows the Celestial to manifest itself in our consciousness, and to become our constant companion.

This trial with only 8 m.g. of 2C-E brought forth many lessons. The outstanding ones are:

1. To set intention with full consciousness.
2. Having set intention, to not let feelings interfere. The fact that I am uncomfortable is no reason not to carry out the intention. I feel I have grown a lot in inner strength today by my willingness to act despite how I felt. Of course if the feelings are powerful, I must sit down and resolve them. Two good ways: The best is to surrender completely to the Divine, or Inner Teacher, and allow developments and understanding to unfold. This usually dissolves the feelings and often brings understanding. Another very useful technique is Gendlin's focusing procedure(8), which helps to rapidly arrive at the core of the feelings and obtain release. But there is something also to be said for simply growing in inner strength sufficiently to ignore some of the habitual responses and drop them by the wayside.
3. Willingness to act. I am recognizing more frequently a deep slothfulness within me. It might be based in anger; a large component is no doubt the sheer habit of laziness developed in childhood, when I was well taken care of by solicitous parents and didn't have to put myself out. Taking action focuses and generates energy and overcomes resistance.
4. Energy is mobilized by the depth of intention. This experience gave me an excellent opportunity to experience my resistances, and deepening intention mobilized the strength to dissolve them away. It has consequently left me with more energy and freedom of action.
5. Learning to relax and be in tune with my center. I became acutely aware of my compulsiveness, my anxiety to push rapidly through things, even my strained breathing. I can relax and let the universe join me in what I am doing, feel the marvelous sense of Presence, be aware of it, enjoy it, and take as much time as is necessary to get the job done. I became aware of how the mind skips over things, anticipates the end without allowing full participation in the deed. Full participation, which also means full awareness, is easy, effortless, enjoyable, competent. It is like being constantly accompanied by one's lover. This is the way I always want to function.

In summary, despite the initial discomfort, I had a most rewarding experience of Pure Being, immersed in the fullness of the One, and an impressive glimpse of the superb beauty of the feminine nature which seems to be my soul. Several hours were devoted to wearing away my internal resistances and learning to function with my feelings as they are. This resulted in a marvelous day following the experience, when I was rejuvenated, whole, full of energy, and feeling enormously competent. A hike two days after the experience was most refreshing to the body. It was my highest climb in many months, and was negotiated almost effortlessly.

I am finding that my pattern after 2C-E runs something like this: The day after is one of great rejuvenation, centeredness, strength, and energy. This is followed by some disruptions as I learn to accommodate the new energy that has been released. There may also be some fresh upheavals of new unconscious material which may take a day or two or three to integrate. Then a new steady-state condition arrives, which most of the time is on a new plateau of functioning.

With the smaller dose, this aftermath has transpired rapidly. I am awed at the power and effectiveness of such a low dose. In fact, it seems that the lower amount is much more effective in dealing with problems close to where you live, and improving day-to-day functioning.

and

Low Doses.

One of the interesting developments in the 2C-E research was the discovery of the efficacy of this substance at relatively low dose levels. Reports came in of excellent results with difficult psychiatric cases at the 10 m.g. level. Jean and I began experimenting more at this level, and found it very effective.

We found that 10 m.g. was a very appropriate introductory level for subjects with prior experience with psychedelics. In our first trials with new persons, I often warned them that my own experience with 2C-E indicated that it was a hard working material. This meant that much of the time one might be forced to confront uncomfortable feelings, so that the journey might not be pleasant. This was compensated for by the improved state of being which followed the experience.

This turned out to be inaccurate information. While it held true for me, it didn't seem to hold true for others. With at least a dozen other subjects, the experience was found not only rewarding but enjoyable. In fact, all of our trials with other persons employing 2C-E have been very fulfilling experiences, including new learning, increased bonding of participants, wonderful feelings of closeness and heightened energy, access to high level realizations, and rejuvenation following the experience.

In one case a couple who invariably had extremely uncomfortable experiences with 2C-B and 2C-T-2 found 2C-E at the 10 m.g. level very enjoyable as well as useful.

I was often surprised at the power of such a low dose. The composition of the group has a significant bearing on the ensuing results. One experience with 17 m.g. did not reach as much intensity or clarity or deep, solid, good feeling as another with 10 m.g. in a different grouping.

The section entitled Bill and Joanna in Chapter 11 contains a description of how outstanding an experience of 10 m.g. of 2C-E can be with very close friends.

And check out the rest of the book @ http://www.maps.org/t2e/ as it is a fantastic publication, and has many further chapters involving 2C-E, as well as other rare psychedelics such as MEM and 2C-T-4.

 

[Mr. Prickles]

Has anyone here attempted or considered injecting 2C-E intravenously or (particularly) intramuscularly? Any thoughts on dosage, dangers, etc.? I found some information on I.M. 2C-I attempts, but nothing with 2C-E as of yet.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I think that requires somebody who no longer has a use for their brain!

Seriously though, 25mg IM of 2C-I had absolutely nothing to recommend it over the same dose orally (OK it might not be a fair assessment due to it being an accidental administration) and I feel sure that 2C-E via that or the IV route would only increase the physical side effects and a propensity towards that physical uncomfortableness being exp[ressed as severe anxiety. I've read a report of 20mg of 2C-C taken IV that basically said that the whole experience was anxiety ridden and rather unpleasant (my experience of that dose rectally is something I'd never want to repeat because of anxiety issues) and that's one of the most psychologically benign phenethylamines; lots of people seem to have overwhelming, overall negative experiences with low doses of 2C-T-2 via the nasal route. Reducing the time to peak plasma levels with the 2C phenethylamines seems to generally be detrimental to the experience (this is in complete contrast to some tryptamines). My thoughts are that it's because of the receptors lit up by these two groups. Phenethylamines mainly go for 5HT2a & 5HT2c wheras the tryptamines seem to go for 5HT2a and 5HT1a receptors (and a few others in some cases). I suspect that the action at the 5HT1a receptor is what keeps anxiety levels from going through the roof with the onset of drugs like DMT (5HT1a is the target of the novel anrianxiety drug, buspirone)

 

[spacefacethebassace]

Tried 10 mg 2C-E two weekends ago.

I noticed that it did take a full 2 hours to come up, and continued increasing until the 3-3.5 hour mark, levelling off and waning after that.

I was very impressed with the strength of just 10 mg, I was not expecting a whole lot and I was just...whoa. 10 mg is such a tiny amount to produce the effects that I got.

 

[Beenhead]

Has anyone else noticed that 2C-E is very wishwashy on come up time? Sometimes I can feel it in 40min, others it takes like 2 hours.

 

[psood0nym]

^I used to notice this, then started IMing. I just assumed it was due to stomach contents. Maybe its highly variable at the same dosage the way DPT is?

I don't inject more than 3 mgs in a 20 minute period. I feel first alerts in 5 minutes, the speedy feeling from each injection peaks in about 30 minutes, and I shift into a level, full blown psychedelic trip by 1 hour. Incremental IMing is a good way to hit exactly the level your looking for without going over and for me ultimately feels "richer". Onset is very speedy so breaking up the dose is a must. 10mg is as high as I've gone. Here's that report:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=275896

 

[Xorkoth]

Personally I find that fasting often makes the nausea worse with a lot of chemicals, and plus then it hurts to throw up because there's nothing in there to throw up. Plus, denying your body of food during a time of stress doesn't seem like the healthiest possible action. On the other hand, I definitely don't like to have food in my stomach, or feel like I do anyway, when I trip. I generally try to cease eating 5-6 hours before tripping, but no more than that. I know for some this causes increased nausea, but for me it's been the opposite.

As for 2C-E's bodyload, I think it's mostly psychosomatic. The physical sensations I actually find to be fairly pleasurable, and the come-up isn't bad. The only thing is that on half of my 2C-E trips, I've experienced nausea. It's not bad, but it required throwing up. On the other half of the trips, I experienced no nausea, just a gurgly, sometimes gassy stomach.

 

[Jabberwocky]

As a point of harm reduction, I'd concur with Xorkoth. If you don't have experience with fasting, I would recommend being cautious.

Personally, my body's metabolism does not do well with fasting. I get lightheaded, dizzy, and at points feel as if I may lose consciousness. An intense psychedelic experience is not the first time you want to experience these types of symptoms, I think.

Careful...

 

[Cecuk]

What do you guys think about smoking 2CE?

To start myself off last time I tried smoking some on a bowl, like 3-4mg not much at all.
Anyways, I quickly noticed a VERY irritating lung sensation, so I quickly stopped.
Just wanted some feedback on this, don't think anyone would want to make a habit of it, but the effects did come in after only a few small hits.