Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[JamtasticX]

ya eh, some of the stories on BL the docs stopped the patients way to high.....so their WD would actually be worse and longer!

perhaps, but its not worth that much to me. I'd rather just deal with the withdrawals head on, instead of paying that much money to maintain or postpone the withdrawals.

Even a whole month of hell isn't worth that much cash to me

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

After making a thousand phone calls in SF, most Suboxone doctors wanted $500 - $1000 for the inital visit! My Fucking GOD---

I found one doctor who does his first visit for $150, and follow-up for $65. I feel like this guy has no idea how much Suboxone doctors are supposed to charge or something. What do you think--- is this a fluke? A doctor who is out of the loop? Or can you find doctors who charge so little for suboxone.

that first visit price (150) is what i payed my doctor when i started over 3 years ago and he was charging 100 for every monthly visit and now it's 150/month but i still pay 100 cuz im grandfathered in since i've been there so long.

if i was you i would go for it with that doctor, that's a good price. and he might be more lenient than the doctors charging an arm and a leg.

 

[SkagKush]

after hearing you guys talk about prices, im so glad i live in BC.....

canada has glorious health care.....i cant get monthly yet, but i go to the pharm twice weekly now.....one day for four, and one day for three..... its like 220 dollars a month now......

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

^thats what i pay for just my monthly script.
and then add my doctor visit (100) = 320ish/month. but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than OC's (my old DOC). I would spend that in 3 days on them.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Hey guys I knew you all could appreciate this future cigarette warning...

Cigarette smoker, in 2012...

Could I get the one with a picture where he's shooting up a cigarette? Yeah those, let me get 2 packs.

Child of a cigarette smoker, in 2012...

Mommy, what's that man doing with a cigarette?

Que a generation of middle school aged children signing up for Bluelight accounts because they want to find out harm reduction information about shooting heroin.

 

[*=Regulator=*]

^
well most of us are aware of the bullshit propoganda that gets put out around drugs. Low and behold, the first time you take a hit of weed, you don't turn into a homicidal maniac but instead chill out and enjoy it! Then we start to question the gospel according to the government regarding other drugs - what else where they bullshitting you about?

Hey, I had an oxy and a line of coke and wasn't instantly a dope fiend sucking dick for crack. The penny drops; it's all bullshit. Anyway, not sure if that's your point but the constant lies perpetuated by the government make things so much worse.

after hearing you guys talk about prices, im so glad i live in BC.....

canada has glorious health care.....i cant get monthly yet, but i go to the pharm twice weekly now.....one day for four, and one day for three..... its like 220 dollars a month now......

Likewise in Australia! I never paid my original Suboxone Dr a single cent for his consults and just had to pay $50 a month for the Sub. I don't know how some of you poor fuckers manage in the US. $1000 for an initial visit?

Progress update:

I've definitely turned the corner now. I went running twice today which is unheard of for me. I've come to the conclusion that exercise is absolutely fucking vital at the tail-end of WDs.

Also ate a bit of pizza and some chicken soup and no nausea or vommitting!

The insomnia is still killing me though. Since I last slept I've had 80mg Valium, 30mg Zolpidem, 25mg Phenergan, 20mg Clonodine, three bowls of weed, about five standard drinks and I'm sitting here typing this at 5am local time. WTF? That should be enough to KO a rhino on PCP Is there anything I can do for this insomnia - do you think a different benzo might help?

My concentration has definitely returned and thank god, I've been able to read a bit.

Good luck everyone else!

 

[JamtasticX]

^^@Regulator-

Personally I've found valium to be ineffective at inducing sleep, especially during withdrawals. Maybe it's just me and the fact that I'm in love with clonazepam, but I find that to be the best benzo. Actually it probably is because I have an odd love for it, but regardless, that seems to be the best benzo in any situation for me.

 

[SubDude]

@Subdude: I've got a shitload of Clonodine but I think it's pretty nasty shit. I think it was the main thing making me feel like a zombie. I started on a pretty high dose but my blood pressure dropped a ton so the Dr made me taper off it (pretty sure it's another one of those drugs that can kill you if you abruptly stop taking it). I've felt much more clear headed since but again, sleep has been hard to come by.

Finally; man this post exercise buzz feels great. Although I really want to sleep, this is the best I've felt since D-Day!

Good luck everyone

Yea I really don't have any experience using clonodine to come OFF subs... just a "bridge" between MMT and BMT. From what I've read here... kratom could be a better choice?? Haven't read the rest of your posts since yesterday yet... but hope the run helped with sleep.

 

[Suboxone]

I can't believe I'm free of Subutex. I really can't believe it.

Thanks for all the info/help/support over the last week!!

 

[JamtasticX]

Yea I really don't have any experience using clonodine to come OFF subs... just a "bridge" between MMT and BMT. From what I've read here... kratom could be a better choice?? Haven't read the rest of your posts since yesterday yet... but hope the run helped with sleep.

There's a big difference between clonidine and kratom.

Kratom works because it has opiates within it, and it's just replacing one opiate with another.

Clonidine isn't an opiate, it only helps treat the symptoms of withdrawals such as tachycardia.

 

[SubDude]

Loperamide also extends the addiction period, IME about the same as kratom does.

I wondered about that. Do you think it's better or worse to extend it out for long-term success? Whatever that means...

Also, what do you think is the best strategy to use after "D-Day"? Do you have any experience with tramadol and how that compares with Kratom? I have trams but have never tried kratom... and I'm thinking seriously about another run at sobriety. I should be consistantly at 1/2mg subs SL by late next week.

Sorry for all the questions but you seem to have a lot of [personal] experimental knowledge.

Respectfully

Subdude

There's a big difference between clonidine and kratom.

Kratom works because it has opiates within it, and it's just replacing one opiate with another.

Clonidine isn't an opiate, it only helps treat the symptoms of withdrawals such as tachycardia.

OK thanks... So it would seem like kratom could be used as [potentially]
another OAT drug?? Do you have any thoughts on what I just asked pegasus?

Let's see, the last thing I did was shoot Methadone more than a week ago, and shot a couple roxi's the week before that. I was in full on withdrawals when I got the 'script for subs.

How does that work. I was on MMT thru the VA for over a decade [latest of several] and they gave us a clear bitter liquid methadone in small takehome plastic bottles. I tried IV once and it burned so bad I gave up after halfway thru and never tried again...

Hey guys I knew you all could appreciate this future cigarette warning...

Cigarette smoker, in 2012...



Child of a cigarette smoker, in 2012...



Que a generation of middle school aged children signing up for Bluelight accounts because they want to find out harm reduction information about shooting heroin.

That's one helluva visual/image... I hope they put it right on the packs for the kids [and everyone else] to see and consider.

 

[JamtasticX]

I wondered about that. Do you think it's better or worse to extend it out for long-term success? Whatever that means...

Also, what do you think is the best strategy to use after "D-Day"? Do you have any experience with tramadol and how that compares with Kratom? I have trams but have never tried kratom... and I'm thinking seriously about another run at sobriety. I should be consistantly at 1/2mg subs SL by late next week.

Sorry for all the questions but you seem to have a lot of [personal] experimental knowledge.

Respectfully

Subdude

OK thanks... So it would seem like kratom could be used as [potentially]
another OAT drug?? Do you have any thoughts on what I just asked pegasus?

What do you mean as an OAT drug?

Anyways, personally I don't think that lope greatly extends the time of withdrawals due to its weak ability to cross the blood brain barrier. Although it is a strong agonist and small amounts due well, the small amount of it leads me to believe that its not going to greatly extend w/d times.

By D day do you mean the day you stop doing opiates? If so, the problem is that both tramadol and kratom are opiates, so you have to understand that you'd only be switching from one opiate to another.

Also, just a helpful note, try to go back and edit your posts to add to them instead of posting time after time, and when quoting images use the

NSFW:

tags

 

[SubDude]

What do you mean as an OAT drug?

Like subs or methadone but not used in a program... OAT= Opiate replacement therapy

Anyways, personally I don't think that lope greatly extends the time of withdrawals due to its weak ability to cross the blood brain barrier. Although it is a strong agonist and small amounts due well, the small amount of it leads me to believe that its not going to greatly extend w/d times.

OK so it's best use is for acute WD's and not any kind of short/long term maint. I think I understand... thanks.

By D day do you mean the day you stop doing opiates? If so, the problem is that both tramadol and kratom are opiates, so you have to understand that you'd only be switching from one opiate to another.

Yes. I guess neither aren't much good for the ultimate goal of sobriety unless used as short term help with severity of wd's. In other words... not much [or any] difference between them for that purpose?

 

[JamtasticX]

Like subs or methadone but not used in a program... OAT= Opiate replacement therapy



OK so it's best use is for acute WD's and not any kind of short/long term maint. I think I understand... thanks.




Yes. I guess neither aren't much good for the ultimate goal of sobriety unless used as short term help with severity of wd's. In other words... not much [or any] difference between them for that purpose?

You could potentially use them as an opiate replacement, you could use anything as an opiate replacement.

I wouldn't recommend using lope or kratom or tramadol for a long term solution. There would be a difference between them, however, I don't have much experience so I can't really vouche for using them, however, using any of them is just replacing one for another..

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^
well most of us are aware of the bullshit propoganda that gets put out around drugs. Low and behold, the first time you take a hit of weed, you don't turn into a homicidal maniac but instead chill out and enjoy it! Then we start to question the gospel according to the government regarding other drugs - what else where they bullshitting you about?

Hey, I had an oxy and a line of coke and wasn't instantly a dope fiend sucking dick for crack. The penny drops; it's all bullshit. Anyway, not sure if that's your point but the constant lies perpetuated by the government make things so much worse.

Not only is that my point, but I contend (due to research supporting this belief) that DARE, and other anti-drug commercials, even anti-drinking and anti-tobacco commercials, inherently make children more interested in what they are supposedly "deterring" them from.

The same government that smuggles in mass amounts of class I drugs, are the same ones that put these "anti-drug" commercials in the media, which only serve to further make children interested in drug use.

Likewise in Australia! I never paid my original Suboxone Dr a single cent for his consults and just had to pay $50 a month for the Sub. I don't know how some of you poor fuckers manage in the US. $1000 for an initial visit?

It was nothing like that for me, and I didn't have to wait on a waiting list like some people in Australia have to.

Progress update:

I've definitely turned the corner now. I went running twice today which is unheard of for me. I've come to the conclusion that exercise is absolutely fucking vital at the tail-end of WDs.

It definitely is.

The insomnia is still killing me though. Since I last slept I've had 80mg Valium, 30mg Zolpidem, 25mg Phenergan, 20mg Clonodine, three bowls of weed, about five standard drinks and I'm sitting here typing this at 5am local time. WTF? That should be enough to KO a rhino on PCP Is there anything I can do for this insomnia - do you think a different benzo might help?

Temazepam is a decent benzo, and doesn't interrupt REM sleep like other benzos do. However if you aren't passing out from what you reported taking, I'm not sure if taking temazepam would "do it" for you.

You might need to over-occupy yourself to the point where you eventually past out due to physical exhaustion. Taking stimulants always helped me achieve this, but psychedelics also work well. I'm not sure if that's something you even feel "up" to, but that's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

Benzos make me pass out if I take enough (equivalent of 15mg temazepam, or 1mg alprazolam) but when I was coming off of heroin for the last time, benzos did not help whatsoever.

^^@Regulator-

Personally I've found valium to be ineffective at inducing sleep, especially during withdrawals. Maybe it's just me and the fact that I'm in love with clonazepam, but I find that to be the best benzo. Actually it probably is because I have an odd love for it, but regardless, that seems to be the best benzo in any situation for me.

Yeah I never got good effects with diazepam. Some people really like it, I just can't do it.

I can't believe I'm free of Subutex. I really can't believe it.

Thanks for all the info/help/support over the last week!!

Congrats man! I'm glad to hear you're doing well without it!

That's one helluva visual/image... I hope they put it right on the packs for the kids [and everyone else] to see and consider.

I think it'll be funny when people have to explain to their kids what shooting up is, not because it's their choice to, but because the "anti-smoking" ads decided that for them.

Also, I edited 4 of your posts into 1 post. I sometimes double post but if I see myself doing this, I'll try to edit the posts together.

This helps get more info into the thread.

 

[Pegasus]

SubDude, I think kratom is probably the best choice of substance for coming off of opiates. It works unbelievably well for me, and many others. It does work because it has opioids in it, but it is not just like taking another opiate in place of the one you're addicted to; it isn't nearly as addicting, and there is a good chance you won't have to taper the kratom. I know that for me and everyone that I have personally walked through bupe tapering, once the switch to kratom is made, the kratom can be discontinued as soon as withdrawal effects from the bupe stop. The bupe withdrawal may be extended slightly by the opioid action of kratom, but not very significantly, and the kratom shouldn't produce any serious dependence of it's own in this period of time.

Kratom was first called "the cure for opiate addiction" in the late 1800's, and I think this still holds true today. For me and many others, kratom is an unbelievably good intermediate between being opiate addicted and opiate free.

 

[SubDude]

I edited 4 of your posts into 1 post. I sometimes double post but if I see myself doing this, I'll try to edit the posts together.

This helps get more info into the thread.

Thanks man and sorry about that... I know condensing forum comments helps everyone with easier access to what they look for... even more important in longer threads like this.

I'll try to do the same thing in the future but I don't yet know the shortcut on how to reply [in one post] to multiple BL user quotes. In the meantime... I'll use the longer route:

SubDude, I think kratom is probably the best choice of substance for coming off of opiates. It works unbelievably well for me, and many others. It does work because it has opioids in it, but it is not just like taking another opiate in place of the one you're addicted to; it isn't nearly as addicting, and there is a good chance you won't have to taper the kratom. I know that for me and everyone that I have personally walked through bupe tapering, once the switch to kratom is made, the kratom can be discontinued as soon as withdrawal effects from the bupe stop. The bupe withdrawal may be extended slightly by the opioid action of kratom, but not very significantly, and the kratom shouldn't produce any serious dependence of it's own in this period of time.

Kratom was first called "the cure for opiate addiction" in the late 1800's, and I think this still holds true today. For me and many others, kratom is an unbelievably good intermediate between being opiate addicted and opiate free.

That's some good information Pegasus and well appreciated... I'm gonna definitely try that next time I'm ready for a run at it.

 

[Suboxone]

Thanks man and sorry about that... I know condensing forum comments helps everyone with easier access to what they look for... even more important in longer threads like this.

I'll try to do the same thing in the future but I don't yet know how to reply [in one post] to multiple BL user quotes. I haven't yet figured out the shortcut. In the meantime... I'll use the longer route:



That's some good information and well appreciated... I'm gonna definitely try that next time I'm ready for a run at it.

I typically middle-click the "quote" box on each thing I want to respond to, then copy them all to the first tab and respond accordingly.

 

[*=Regulator=*]

@Captain Heroin: thanks for the advice. I gotta say, I think throwing a stimulant into the mix at the moment would be a risky proposition. Stims do tend to work paradoxically on me because of my ADHD but have always hindered sleep for me big time.

Likewise for psychedelics. I don't think I'm in the right headspace to be tripping right now and the last thing I need is to wig out, particularly when benzos won't KO me if I really start to freak. I think I'll just keep plodding away.

I'm going to have to explain to my Dr how I went through 250mg of Valium in three days tomorrow which I know he's going to be pretty concerned about (to be honest, so am I). I think I'll need to start to taper from next week.

I still have a very 'groggy' head after waking up (2pm local time) but that's par for the course. Once I get up and moving and eventually go for a run, my head should clear.

Thanks guys, things are looking up!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Constipated from buprenorphine?

Read this.

I'll try to do the same thing in the future but I don't yet know the shortcut on how to reply [in one post] to multiple BL user quotes.

- use this button

Click as many posts you want to reply to with this button, and the last one you want to reply to, hit the Quote button. You will see the quotes from all the posts you clicked (of both buttons, all but the last one pictured here).