GHB vs GBL WD's
Hi all i just joined after reading the GHB/GBL threads on here. Hopefully my
experience wil be useful.
I first sampled GHB in 2004 after reading about it on the net. I was concerned about my own drinking and saw reports that it wasn't addictive and helped reduce the craving for alcohol.
I purchased some GBL, did the conversion to GHB, tried it and loved it. It did seem the wonder drug everyone described, completely removed my urge to drink excessively, and actually made me feel euphoric and more sociable, not to mention the sex.
After a while i fell into the same trap as many others, taking larger and more frequent doses, eventually reaching 24/7 dosing of approx 3-3.5g every 60-90 mins. I found more and more excuses in everyday life to use it. By definition the more wrecked you get on it the less you care how much you're taking..you don't even notice dependance developing.
Skipping forward about 2 months of 24/7 abuse I lost my job, and lost my 'drive to suceed' i spose you could say. By that point the euphoric effects of GHB had long gone and I was just taking doses to feel normal and keep the sweats / shakes away. Days and weeks flew by like hours and I got lazy and started taking raw GBL instead of getting off my arse to do the conversion.
From there it only got worse due to the more rapid 'up+down' of GBL's effects, my doses got up to around 3-3.5ml every 60mins. Grabbing maybe 2 hrs sleep a night. You always mean to start tapering down your dose but something always 'comes up' that day and you take a little top up to deal with it. It happens every day when you get that far in.
This continued for approximately a further 18months until I ran out of money, couldn't buy G and had to sort myself out. Towards the end of the binge, other health problems were beginning to show as a result of the GBL use, fluid retention, numbness in my hands and regular muscle cramps from, as it turned out, metabolic acidosis.
Please no-one be offended by this, but I do need to clear some points up, which others have posted incorrectly on..
GHB/GBL works on GABA-b receptors.. yes.
GABA-b is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and regulates the brain by slowing electrical activity.
GHB also works on a GHB receptor in the brain...YES! there is one, and it also increases HGH levels in the blood, which acts like a natural steroid.
It's activity at GHB receptors combined with the increased HgH has a stimulant type effect (the initial euphoria you get on G), while the sedating effect is brought about by G's action on the GABA-b receptor. The typical upper+downer combo which makes us all act like such dicks while under the influence of it.
As you can imagine if you get a tolerance to a chemical / neurotransmitter, your receptors for that neurotransmitter adjust to the higher / lower activity level they now see. It's called up/down regulation.
If you suddenly stop G use you're going to feel weak and depressed from the downregulared GHB+HgH receptors. You will also be anxious from the upregulation of GABAb receptors, with not enough GABA to keep things calm.
The horrible initial comedown you get off G is caused by the 2 neurotransmitters i just mentioned. - GABA, and HgH. Dopamine has no involvement in this comedown feeling..
People incorrectly say it's an excess of Dopamine - a 'rebound' effect. Nope a sudden rush of dopamine is actually very pleasant, people pay £50/g for it in the form of the Dopamine agonist Cocaine.
GHB withdrawal does also have the effects the some posters already stated.. on the cholinergic system though. This is brought on indirectly by the effects on the GHB and GABA receptors however, not Dopamine 'rebound' or HgH. Cholinergic effects will vary...hot flushes, high BP, tachycardia, sweating.
Dopamine DOES play a part though...
Here's how my witdrawal went:
T0:00 Last dose consumed.
+1hr anxiety and heart rate steadily increasing, sweating, tremor beginning in hands. Consumed an insane quantity of Propranolol to keep heart rate under 130bpm (>800mg - don't do this, ever! Consult a doctor if you get tachy)
<= Day 8...Tremor, sweating and heartrate slowly decreasing, anxiety persists. Alcohol taper (started @ 20 units/day) used as GP refuses to prescribe benzo's of any quantity.
Foolishly think i'm through the worst.
Day 8> Holy shit, NOW we have Dopamine kickback..full 10/10 anxiety, general discomfort, severe tremor / involuntary movements, fully formed delusions, auditory + visual hallucinations, nightmares. Classic DT's by all accounts.
Brief hospital admission after vomiting so much i recieved a small tear to my throat = lots of blood.
Day 14 > I was finally feeling better. Lethargic and mildly anxious mental state remained for 5 months.
I agree fully that the severity of withdrawals will depend on how much, often and long you've been taking G for.
And from my own experience I'd also agree that every time you have WD's, they'll be worse the next time. It's the same as the 'kindling' theory about alcoholic WD's in the US.
I would say to anyone considering taking GHB/GBL, 1st never get into 24/7 dosing (easier said than done sometimes - it creeps up on you).
Dose taper withdrawal from GHB, although still unpleasant, is nothing compared to the horror of recovering from long term GBL abuse.
If you must get the G buzz....use GHB not GBL. It's stupidly easy to do the conversion... take the actual intended drug, don't drink the ingredients. If you want a sandwich do you use a slice of baked bread, or just eat a raw egg, some flower, and yeast?
Finally, never think you're doing well by taking G cos you've stopped drinking. Cross tolerance between Alcohol and GHB/GBL exists because both affect the same neurotransmitter - GABA, and both chemicals are broken down by the same liver enzyme. You haven't stopped drinking, you've just changed to a stronger drink.
Don't believe me? stop taking G for a day and see how much you have to drink before you feel it..
^^
Annyyyway that's mainly aimed at the people who still want to take up the 'sport', i'm not really preaching at anyone, if you're happy doing what you're doing, keep doing it
Nigel
Hi all i just joined after reading the GHB/GBL threads on here. Hopefully my
experience wil be useful.
I first sampled GHB in 2004 after reading about it on the net. I was concerned about my own drinking and saw reports that it wasn't addictive and helped reduce the craving for alcohol.
I purchased some GBL, did the conversion to GHB, tried it and loved it. It did seem the wonder drug everyone described, completely removed my urge to drink excessively, and actually made me feel euphoric and more sociable, not to mention the sex.
After a while i fell into the same trap as many others, taking larger and more frequent doses, eventually reaching 24/7 dosing of approx 3-3.5g every 60-90 mins. I found more and more excuses in everyday life to use it. By definition the more wrecked you get on it the less you care how much you're taking..you don't even notice dependance developing.
Skipping forward about 2 months of 24/7 abuse I lost my job, and lost my 'drive to suceed' i spose you could say. By that point the euphoric effects of GHB had long gone and I was just taking doses to feel normal and keep the sweats / shakes away. Days and weeks flew by like hours and I got lazy and started taking raw GBL instead of getting off my arse to do the conversion.
From there it only got worse due to the more rapid 'up+down' of GBL's effects, my doses got up to around 3-3.5ml every 60mins. Grabbing maybe 2 hrs sleep a night. You always mean to start tapering down your dose but something always 'comes up' that day and you take a little top up to deal with it. It happens every day when you get that far in.
This continued for approximately a further 18months until I ran out of money, couldn't buy G and had to sort myself out. Towards the end of the binge, other health problems were beginning to show as a result of the GBL use, fluid retention, numbness in my hands and regular muscle cramps from, as it turned out, metabolic acidosis.
Please no-one be offended by this, but I do need to clear some points up, which others have posted incorrectly on..
GHB/GBL works on GABA-b receptors.. yes.
GABA-b is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and regulates the brain by slowing electrical activity.
GHB also works on a GHB receptor in the brain...YES! there is one, and it also increases HGH levels in the blood, which acts like a natural steroid.
It's activity at GHB receptors combined with the increased HgH has a stimulant type effect (the initial euphoria you get on G), while the sedating effect is brought about by G's action on the GABA-b receptor. The typical upper+downer combo which makes us all act like such dicks while under the influence of it.
As you can imagine if you get a tolerance to a chemical / neurotransmitter, your receptors for that neurotransmitter adjust to the higher / lower activity level they now see. It's called up/down regulation.
If you suddenly stop G use you're going to feel weak and depressed from the downregulared GHB+HgH receptors. You will also be anxious from the upregulation of GABAb receptors, with not enough GABA to keep things calm.
The horrible initial comedown you get off G is caused by the 2 neurotransmitters i just mentioned. - GABA, and HgH. Dopamine has no involvement in this comedown feeling..
People incorrectly say it's an excess of Dopamine - a 'rebound' effect. Nope a sudden rush of dopamine is actually very pleasant, people pay £50/g for it in the form of the Dopamine agonist Cocaine.
GHB withdrawal does also have the effects the some posters already stated.. on the cholinergic system though. This is brought on indirectly by the effects on the GHB and GABA receptors however, not Dopamine 'rebound' or HgH. Cholinergic effects will vary...hot flushes, high BP, tachycardia, sweating.
Dopamine DOES play a part though...
Here's how my witdrawal went:
T0:00 Last dose consumed.
+1hr anxiety and heart rate steadily increasing, sweating, tremor beginning in hands. Consumed an insane quantity of Propranolol to keep heart rate under 130bpm (>800mg - don't do this, ever! Consult a doctor if you get tachy)
<= Day 8...Tremor, sweating and heartrate slowly decreasing, anxiety persists. Alcohol taper (started @ 20 units/day) used as GP refuses to prescribe benzo's of any quantity.
Foolishly think i'm through the worst.
Day 8> Holy shit, NOW we have Dopamine kickback..full 10/10 anxiety, general discomfort, severe tremor / involuntary movements, fully formed delusions, auditory + visual hallucinations, nightmares. Classic DT's by all accounts.
Brief hospital admission after vomiting so much i recieved a small tear to my throat = lots of blood.
Day 14 > I was finally feeling better. Lethargic and mildly anxious mental state remained for 5 months.
I agree fully that the severity of withdrawals will depend on how much, often and long you've been taking G for.
And from my own experience I'd also agree that every time you have WD's, they'll be worse the next time. It's the same as the 'kindling' theory about alcoholic WD's in the US.
I would say to anyone considering taking GHB/GBL, 1st never get into 24/7 dosing (easier said than done sometimes - it creeps up on you).
Dose taper withdrawal from GHB, although still unpleasant, is nothing compared to the horror of recovering from long term GBL abuse.
If you must get the G buzz....use GHB not GBL. It's stupidly easy to do the conversion... take the actual intended drug, don't drink the ingredients. If you want a sandwich do you use a slice of baked bread, or just eat a raw egg, some flower, and yeast?
Finally, never think you're doing well by taking G cos you've stopped drinking. Cross tolerance between Alcohol and GHB/GBL exists because both affect the same neurotransmitter - GABA, and both chemicals are broken down by the same liver enzyme. You haven't stopped drinking, you've just changed to a stronger drink.
Don't believe me? stop taking G for a day and see how much you have to drink before you feel it..
^^
Annyyyway that's mainly aimed at the people who still want to take up the 'sport', i'm not really preaching at anyone, if you're happy doing what you're doing, keep doing it
Nigel
Last edited:
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
and pointed at the people outside the flat window (which is on the third floor)! Man, that was a nightmare. I was chasing big spiders all over the flat, and the cat kept attacking me (she actually did!).
Was up till stupid hour last night turning over and over