ULDN - The magic weapon to reduce and keep tolerance to Opioids low

[Hexenstahl]

tell me more on how you dose this out and what your daily times are etc... ill def give this a try, you germans have a chemistry background that is unmatched by any other nation

The way you dose this out is exactly how I described it in my original post on the first page. I take my heroin at 6pm, but half an hour before I take 30µg of naltrexone. I can tell you if you have a high tolerance you can actually feel the impact of the upregulation. You suddenly feel an endogenous endorphin rush and the lethargy that comes with heavy and long-term use of opioids practically vanishes (this is NOT the case however when you're in PAWS like I was). I assume this is partly due to the upregulation of the opioid receptors and partly because ULDN stimulates the production of sex hormones, especially testosterone. So opioid receptors become resensitized, the density and amount of those receptors decreases (stimulating your brain's neurochemistry to release endorphins endogenously) and your increased testosterone level gets rid of avolition and lethargy.
To put it in a short and simple manner: you're basically hacking your brain and "resetting" its input parameters to that of an opioid naive person. This is also why withdrawals feel so mild when you're used to using ULDN before doing opioids. I have put the word reset into quotation marks because it won't be like the first few times of course, but when you take opioids again it feels like you're back in pre-dependency times. You don't need astronomical amounts of opioids anymore to feel something. This makes opioid use incredibly economical and brings back some of the fun that you used to have in your honeymoon phase.

 

[Delmonte421]

So before dosing which would be very much at the tail end of things, usually in the 8-10 hour mark but that little nax wont throw me in PW?

 

[Delmonte421]

The way you dose this out is exactly how I described it in my original post on the first page. I take my heroin at 6pm, but half an hour before I take 30µg of naltrexone. I can tell you if you have a high tolerance you can actually feel the impact of the upregulation. You suddenly feel an endogenous endorphin rush and the lethargy that comes with heavy and long-term use of opioids practically vanishes (this is NOT the case however when you're in PAWS like I was). I assume this is partly due to the upregulation of the opioid receptors and partly because ULDN stimulates the production of sex hormones, especially testosterone. So opioid receptors become resensitized, the density and amount of those receptors decreases (stimulating your brain's neurochemistry to release endorphins endogenously) and your increased testosterone level gets rid of avolition and lethargy.
To put it in a short and simple manner: you're basically hacking your brain and "resetting" its input parameters to that of an opioid naive person. This is also why withdrawals feel so mild when you're used to using ULDN before doing opioids. I have put the word reset into quotation marks because it won't be like the first few times of course, but when you take opioids again it feels like you're back in pre-dependency times. You don't need astronomical amounts of opioids anymore to feel something. This makes opioid use incredibly economical and brings back some of the fun that you used to have in your honeymoon phase.

so if I have a bottle @ 0.4 mg/mL then I should take 0.1mL of that solution and IM myself 30 minutes before taking an oxy? The normal dose would be the full 400micrograms? so taking 1/10 of the normal rescue dose is what ULDN is?

 

[opallove13]

Ok so I tried everything: Memantine, DXM, Ketamine and just about any NMDA Antagonist to keep my tolerance to Opioids low but none of it worked in a satisfying and reliable way. A while ago I stumbled upon a couple very interesting scientific papers discussing the use of ultra low dose naltrexone and how it reduces tolerance to Opioids. This discovery was accidental though, because the researchers were originally looking for a way to potentiate the analgesic effects of Opioids but found out that ULDN also obliterates tolerance up to 70%!
The effective dosage seems to vary wildly in humans, ranging anywhere from 5μg to 100μg depending on your body weight, sex, metabolism, genetics and other factors. This is why you have to experiment a bit until you find out your right dose, but don't take more than 100μg, otherwise you might go into precipitated wd!!

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.4137/CMT.S4870

Adding ultralow-dose naltrexone to oxycodone enhances and prolongs analgesia: a randomized, controlled trial of Oxytrex - PubMed

Preclinical data have shown ultralow-dose opioid antagonists to enhance and prolong opioid analgesia while reducing analgesic tolerance and physical dependence. Recent molecular pharmacology data show a mechanism of action to be the prevention of aberrant G protein coupling by opioid receptors...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ultra-Low Dose Oral Naltrexone Decreases Side Effects and Potentiates the Effect of Methadone

The use of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonists to decrease opioid side effects, potentiate opioid actions, and decrease the development of tolerance has been a topic of substantial interest over the last decade. The pioneering work by Trujillo and Akil suggested that tolerance to...

www.jpsmjournal.com

I will describe here how you can make ULDN and take it in a way that is safe and easy to dose. I tried this out myself and I confirm that it works. I take it every evening since then, half an hour before doing Heroin and I went from 200mg (intranasal) to 70mg! PLEASE BE CAREFUL AFTER TAKING ULDN AND DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE TAKE YOUR NORMAL OPIOID DOSE AS IT MIGHT LEAD TO A LETHAL OVERDOSE!!!
All right, now that I have warned you, let me show you how it's done: first you need to get your hands on a 50mg Naltrexone pill (don't buy generica from the DN, they're often fake pills sold by indian scammers). As it is not a controlled substance, it is fairly easy to get a script for it depending on where you live. Next thing you need is a 2L bottle (avoid plastic bottles for this purpose because you'll be using this Naltrexone solution for many years to come and you don't wanna ingest microplastic!). Let's do some math:

2L = 2000ml
50mg = 50,000μg
50,000μg / 2000ml = 25μg per 1ml
1ml = 20 drops
25μg / 20 drops = 1.25μg per drop

Now fill your bottle with water and add your Naltrexone pill. You don't need to pulverize it as it is easily water-soluble. Now shake the ship out of the bottle until the pill has dissolved. It takes around a minute or so. Now go and buy yourself a dropper. Upon returning, shake your bottle once more and suck up your mix in the dropper. As we have computed, each drop is 1.25μg. Start with 5μg, wait 30 minutes and then take a newbie dose of your Opioid of choice. If you feel it hasn't worked, wait a minimum of 10h until you redose!
This isn't your usual NMDA bullshit drug where you talk yourself into believing that your tolerance has been lowered. This actually works and has been scientifically proven, so be careful!!

Now where to find naltrexone? Hmmm! I’m on opioids so the doc won’t prescribe them. I guess I might know of someone who takes them, and score a couple off of them

 

[Hexenstahl]

Interesting diary of someone who uses ULDN. Worth a read!

Dilaudid.net

 

[Hexenstahl]

Documentary about ULDN and Opioids. Even more proof that it works.

 

[Hexenstahl]

For those who are interested in academic literature confirming the efficacy of ULDN, I recommend the following book: "Opiate Receptors and Antagonists: From Bench to Clinic" by Dean, Bilsky and Negus.

Of special interest are:

Part I Chapter 1 : Ultra-Low-Dose Opioid Antagonists Enhance Opioid Analgesia And Reduce Tolerance
Part I Chapter 2: Upregulation Of Opioid Receptors
Part III Chapter 13: Ultra-Low-Dose Naltrexone Decreases Dependence And Addictive Properties Of Opioids

This book sounds like an incredibly fascinating read and I will be posting excerpts from these chapters here eventually.

 

[Hexenstahl]

I tried out something new today: I took BSO (black seed oil) and ULDN together in the hopes that it might have synergistic effects. I notice the ULDN doing its job as usual but I don't feel anything from the BSO. Just wanted to write my experience down here in this thread since @Aqlis might be interested about my results with that combination.

 

[Aqlis]

I tried out something new today: I took BSO (black seed oil) and ULDN together in the hopes that it might have synergistic effects. I notice the ULDN doing its job as usual but I don't feel anything from the BSO. Just wanted to write my experience down here in this thread since @Aqlis might be interested about my results with that combination.

interesting. how much did you try? i've heard some people get basically 0 acute effects from BSO which is surprising to me, i basically put a tiny splash on or under my tongue and instantly feel different lol. but i'm generally very sensitive to stuff. also curious to see what @cdin might have to say on this

 

[Hexenstahl]

interesting. how much did you try? i've heard some people get basically 0 acute effects from BSO which is surprising to me, i basically put a tiny splash on or under my tongue and instantly feel different lol. but i'm generally very sensitive to stuff. also curious to see what @cdin might have to say on this

That instantaneous effect you get is placebo. Oral substances, no matter what, can't work that fast, even when they have the ability to bypass the BBB.

I took one teaspoon of BSO. I have read almost everywhere that it should be enough, but maybe I need more? I'll try it again, this time with one tablespoon (lol) just to be safe.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

That instantaneous effect you get is placebo. Oral substances, no matter what, can't work that fast, even when they have the ability to bypass the BBB.

I too like idea of peripheral nervous system stimulants and depressant that trough secondary action without crossing BBB cause some mental effects. Think topical application of substance that creates feeling of pleasant tingling like someone is passing fingers all over skin or one that imitates feeling of being in just right amount of sunshine or.. That would produce positive mental and secondary, in some likely very strong neurological response.
But sublingual use of classic drugs in very high dose can hit almost instantly. Like way faster than snorted and as fast as smoking. Obviously if you ingest some DOx, BDF or some other potent yet slow in onset drug and it starts working almost immediately, you're fucked. When I licked visible amount of 1p-LSD it kicked in literally in seconds and it was definitely not placebo. But yeah, normally immediate effects placebo or mostly placebo.

 

[Aqlis]

That instantaneous effect you get is placebo. Oral substances, no matter what, can't work that fast, even when they have the ability to bypass the BBB.

I took one teaspoon of BSO. I have read almost everywhere that it should be enough, but maybe I need more? I'll try it again, this time with one tablespoon (lol) just to be safe.

Oral maybe yeah, but sublingual? which is where most of the oil goes at this point. i find it difficult to believe that the immediate feeling of slight warmth, slight calm& sedation and my right nostril (which is otherwise always blocked) unblocking is all just placebo. but maybe so, maybe i'm just wrong placebo is a helluva drug after all.
one teaspoon should be plenty for most people, it's even too much for me probably. if your gut etc tolerates a higher dose well might be worth trying a tablespoon. or try a teaspoon sublingual? it seems to just produce no acute effects for some people tbh.

 

[Hexenstahl]

According to the abstract of this study here the compound PTI-609 is even more effective than ULDN when it comes to tolerance attenuation and opioid potentiation. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find this compound. In fact I haven't been able to find any information regarding this compound except this one study here.

PTI-609: a novel analgesic that binds filamin A to control opioid signaling - PubMed

Binding a critical pentapeptide region on the scaffolding protein filamin A regulates signaling of mu opioid receptors (MORs) so that their activation should not result in the opioid tolerance, dependence and addiction associated with current opioid painkillers. Additionally, we show that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Hexenstahl]

I experienced something very strange last night after taking my second dose of ULDN (I decreased down to pg for the first time). I first had a mild feeling of muscle stretching or tearing in my legs, similar to what you experience during wd but it was comfortable. However, later on I woke up from sleep and felt that stretching in my leg extremely strong to the point where it started to feel unbearable. It was so intense that I already started feeling it while still dreaming and it's what ultimately woke me up. It was quite a scary experience. I never had something like this. It's strange because the dose I took was actually MUCH lower than usual. Below my usual µg and ng doses. Let's see if that happens again tonight...

 

[someguyontheinternet]

If ULDN taken at night usually prevents WD symptoms during the night, dropping below the effective dose might trigger some WD especially if you took a lowish dose of opioid during the day

 

[Hexenstahl]

If ULDN taken at night usually prevents WD symptoms during the night, dropping below the effective dose might trigger some WD especially if you took a lowish dose of opioid during the day

I forgot to mention something important: the ULDN dose I took in the morning was actually super effective in potentiating my opioid, so it can't be that my second ULDN dose in the evening caused wd because it was an effective dose to begin with. I'm currently wondering if all of that was actually a dream because ULDN and LDN are known to give extremely vivid and sometimes disturbing dreams, so it's possible I was dreaming this whole experience and am confused right now about whether or not it actually happened. I'm gonna pay close attention to it tonight...

 

[someguyontheinternet]

What I was thinking is the upregulation from the lower dose perhaps wasn't enough to prevent WD

Do you keep a log of doses and times?

 

[Hexenstahl]

What I was thinking is the upregulation from the lower dose perhaps wasn't enough to prevent WD

But I'm not actually decreasing my opioid dose, so how can a lower dose of Naltrexone fail to prevent wd when I'm not going through wd in the first place? Or am I totally misunderstanding what you are trying to say here?

Do you keep a log of doses and times?

Yes, I keep a ULDN diary.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

So even if the opioid dose is kept constant, if that dose is just enough to prevent WD at the tail end of the effects, that might depend on using a higher dose of the ULDN to keep things at that level.

So if you drop down below the necessary effective dose of ULDN it could have the effect of bringing on some WD when the opioid starts to wear off

I should add the caveat of I don't know what the minimum effective dose for ULDN is

 

[Hexenstahl]

So even if the opioid dose is kept constant, if that dose is just enough to prevent WD at the tail end of the effects, that might depend on using a higher dose of the ULDN to keep things at that level.

So if you drop down below the necessary effective dose of ULDN it could have the effect of bringing on some WD when the opioid starts to wear off

All right, NOW I'm getting what you're saying. Yeah that sounds like a really plausible hypothesis actually. I wanna find that out tonight. Gonna take my ULDN in three hours when it's 8pm here. I take it every 12h, like in the oxytrex trial. Let's see what happens...